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Question: Should we limit the number of active loans per user?
No. As long as he is paying.
Yes, max 1 active loan per user.
Yes, max 2 active loans per user.
Yes, max 3 active loans per user.
Yes, max 5 active loans per user.

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Author Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending  (Read 204911 times)
RealMalatesta
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June 07, 2015, 01:05:06 PM
 #1281

I guess that BTCJam is clinically dead or only able to trick some newbies into lending.

Just received one more arbitration note. Funny. The guy who asked for the money is, according to BTCJam's rating, fully identified. Now what identifiers did I get? A German name and a german address. A british phone number. A chinese Facebook-profile. A fake driver's license.

So basically, BTCJam IS part of the fraud for they are not checking ANY information of the lenders at all, while still claiming that they are identified.

I call BTCJam a fraud.
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June 09, 2015, 08:06:55 AM
 #1282

I guess that BTCJam is clinically dead or only able to trick some newbies into lending.

Just received one more arbitration note. Funny. The guy who asked for the money is, according to BTCJam's rating, fully identified. Now what identifiers did I get? A German name and a german address. A british phone number. A chinese Facebook-profile. A fake driver's license.

So basically, BTCJam IS part of the fraud for they are not checking ANY information of the lenders at all, while still claiming that they are identified.

I call BTCJam a fraud.

It's not a fraud till they've been hacked. Once hacked, then the storyline starts. What's the storyline, you ask? Don't know, but trust me it'll be a good one considering the last one told:

The important truths

Truth 1: My $40K LR transaction is legitimate at AurumXchange, associated with a friend in Singapore.
Truth 2: All my assets at Mt. Gox, my wallet balances, my recent Bitcoin transactions and the 5,000 BTC compensation are from legitimate sources.
Truth 3: I had no knowledge of myself being suspicious until the public statement was posted by AurumXchange. There's no possible way of me being involved in the investigation earlier.
Truth 4: Even though there's evidence showing that I'm linked to this hack, I have absolutely no relationship with all previous hacks.
Truth 5: If either AurumXchange or Mt. Gox had communicated their investigation with me earlier, there wouldn't be so many wrong interpretations and assumptions and this thread could have come out much earlier.
Truth 6: I didn't steal the money.

Who is Chen Jianhai?

Chen Jianhai is my previous business associate. He was very familiar with credit card fraud and by my observations he's quite active in financial black markets. He didn't know much technical stuff personally but he has many technical people working with him everyday. He heard about Bitcoin from me last year from a random chat, and I have not communicated with him this year.

Did he admit the wrong-doing?

Surprisingly, yes. He strongly denied at first, but he changed his attitude entirely when I mention that this matter is an international-scale crime, and intelligent netizens from all over the world are actively investigating this matter. And I also told him that the accidentally exposed a bank account number. (He claimed that it was a debit card purchased from black market.)

He used my secret identity because he felt that "it would be impossible to discover the hacker" and "it would be much easier to deny if the suspect account is an insider because you (Zhou Tong) can always distract people from investigating". I have repeatedly said that I have zero tolerance in this matter and I will report all his information, including his real bank account number and address to the police once the official investigation has started.

How did he do it?

He said one of his co-workers was quite active in Chinese Bitcoin community and he had noticed the source code of Bitcoinica being leaked. The reason that he (the technical guy) knew the correlation between the Mt. Gox API key and the LastPass master password remains unknown. I have only communicated this password in-person with Tihan in Chimelong Hotel (Guangzhou) lobby once in February this year and I'm quite sure that no one else has paid any attention to our conversation.

He was unwilling to share more information about the specifics of the hack, but he remembered that he only thought of using my secret identity *after* he was able to withdraw money from Mt. Gox. It was possible that he only withdrew the Bitcoins first, and then a few moments later, the USD.

Also he revealed an important piece of information not mentioned in the public statements: He used the Mt. Gox account of Chris Heaslip, which is a verified account, to deposit some Mt. Gox code and buy Bitcoins with the money, and withdrew all of them. This account's credentials were also in the LastPass account.

In the entire process, he used My Wallet (Blockchain.info) with Tor to access the Bitcoins, and he transferred some Bitcoins to his servers in United States as well. The IP 184.22.31.180 (which was used to access Mt. Gox accounts) is actually zeraba.ddns.info. This is actually a public SSH proxy server for some Chinese users to bypass the national firewall with randomly rotating passwords. He had attempted to access the Mt. Gox accounts with Tor and he failed (note: Mt. Gox bans all Tor exit nodes).

How about the money?

He's a multi-millionaire in China living with a family. I'm not sure how much of his money comes from illegal sources but he has a genuine interest in relic collections and he has made a lot of money from speculating precious collections.

After my warning, he seemed unwilling to return the funds. However, I have threatened him with reporting his information to the police. He later more or less agreed to return the funds to Bitcoinica users, under the condition that Bitcoinica will no longer pursue the case (and Bitcoinica isn't pursuing at the moment) and I keep his other personal information secret.

I'm currently in a moral dilemma because even though I don't have definitive proof that Chen Jianhai is indeed a long-time criminal with an active presence in stolen credit cards and possibly other hacks, it might be worthwhile to pursue with police investigation so that justice can be served. However doing that will significantly delay the claiming process of Bitcoinica and the Chinese police may not be willing or capable to effectively investigate or co-operate in this matter. Otherwise I can always get all the stolen funds from him first. The only evidence in my email account was a credit card fraud case of only a few hundred dollars, which isn't very significant compared to the Bitcoinica hack.

Currently I'm very willing to co-operate with any investigation because this is the only way I can completely prove my innocence. However the non-reponse from Bitcoinica side is indeed worrying. I have gathered some data to estimate the amount that can be recovered from Chen Jianhai:

USD: about $140,000 + $5000 frozen at AurumXchange (under SJ account)
BTC: about 20,000 BTC

There's an unknown amount of funds left in Chris Heaslip's account and I have no way of knowing the exact balance.

It's important to note that the pending $40,000 transaction at AurumXchange is my genuine transaction, so it can be used to offset the USD payment. And also all Bitcoin balances in my Mt. Gox account are mine, and it shouldn't be used to further compensate Bitcoinica customers as well.

However, my previous donation of 5,000 BTC and community donation of 101 BTC were entirely separate from this matter and the claimants can rightfully hold on to the full amount. These funds come from my profits of previous sale at Bitcoinica, and I genuinely feel that Bitcoinica users deserve the early compensation due to them being affected by the inefficiencies of Bitcoinica's operations.

Chen Jianhai was only able to offer the above-mentioned amount due to the cost of his laundering activities and also the significantly lower Bitcoin price when he cashed out. If Bitcoinica or the community wants him to cover the full amount at today's prices, I'm willing to co-operate with any police investigation. But either case, my previous donation should have pretty much covered the difference.

It's up to Bitcoinica to appoint a bank account and also a Bitcoin address so that Chen Jianhai (or possibly I) can return the funds. AurumXchange can either return the $40,000 to me, or send the funds to Bitcoinica's nominated account (in which case another $100,000 will be sent to Bitcoinica from Chen Jianhai or me).

About my situation

I'm not asking him to transfer to me or to anyone else the amount today because it can be illegal to possess such funds until Bitcoinica has provided any written form of authorisation and/or agreement (so that I won't be wronged again because of arranging the return of the stolen funds).

It's important to note that I have been, I am and I will always be standing on the side of Bitcoinica customers, regardless of my position and situation at Bitcoinica. I have absolutely no tolerance of illegal activity of any kind, especially those damaging my personal reputation.

I promise that I have honestly reported the amounts and 100% of those recovered from Chen Jianhai will be returned to Bitcoinica's customers. At the same time, I have to emphasise that Bitcoinica should return the amounts to customers as quickly as possible, so that the company and related people will not get into serious legal troubles. It's my best interest to make Bitcoinica's customers happy so that this issue will not have further impact on my future careers.

I have no problem of either formal police investigation, or returning the funds without police investigation. I would prefer the former so that my name can be cleared, but I guess that some Bitcoinica customers may choose the latter.

Sitenote: I have released an improved design of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/), which I finished during my lunch break, until AurumXchange's statement was posted.

I wonder if Chen Jianhai is affiliated with Alex Sovu of BlackArrow. Hmmmm!
thy
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June 09, 2015, 10:10:11 AM
Last edit: June 09, 2015, 10:21:41 AM by thy
 #1283

mmm but basically people look for big loans like 50 BTC , most of people iwll borrow small amount small amount till the one need the loan gets the full amount , let's say who need the amount is from Africa & the borrowers is from Asia , Europe or America or Australia and he don't give them back their money and walk away ? they will use Interpol or what exactly ? I mean how in the world they will sue him for not giving back their money ?? Shocked So unless borrower and who need the loan are from the same country or continant the borrower is screwed ? Shocked not very cool if you ask me
The avg loan on btcjam is no way near 50 btc, its a much smaller amount. There is debt collectors firms that operate internationally in basically every country of the world, there is no reason why they shouldent be able to collect on a loan that has been taken out in bitcoins, its no stranger than if a person in the UK is taking out a loan in Euro for example so a lender could use one or several of them for collection on debts out of there own country. A lender could also sell off bad debt notes in borrowers in countrys far from themself and buy up notes in borrowers loan in there own country or surrounding countrys and take those debts to court if necessary. The best would of course be if the debt collection process would be handled centrally by btcjam and debt collecting firms working together with them.

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June 09, 2015, 12:10:58 PM
 #1284

Can you put some statistics about overdue / default loans on btcjam....
so lenders can know how much lending is risky? Thanks
owlcatz
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June 09, 2015, 10:13:19 PM
 #1285

Can you put some statistics about overdue / default loans on btcjam....
so lenders can know how much lending is risky? Thanks

Speaking as someone who's lost about 1.5 BTC there lately, i'd say it's pretty high.

And i didn't invest stupidly either, mostly good people who had repaid before.

SO - Is there a thread "wall of shame thread" to post the dox off all these defaulters who end up in net-arb? I have about 2 so far - Both in faraway countries, no reply via email , facebook page gone or abandoned etc...

This site should be renamed BTC-SCAM IMO. Even the support sucks shit, they never even reply back for like 2 days if you are lucky.

/end rant.   Sad

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letuslook
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June 10, 2015, 11:45:49 AM
 #1286

The scammers are a big problem also people who default are bringing the reputation down of btcjam of some good borrowers. I do think they need to improve their rating system and ask for better income verification and maybe use services like ardeva.com (or alternatives).

~ Luc
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June 10, 2015, 02:07:34 PM
 #1287

Does any one earned any interest from this site after lending money? Please comment with proof...

I lent some btc but in return I get almost nothing. I don't recommend this site for investment purposes.
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June 11, 2015, 06:28:58 PM
 #1288

Does any one earned any interest from this site after lending money? Please comment with proof...

I lent some btc but in return I get almost nothing. I don't recommend this site for investment purposes.

What do you recommend then?
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June 11, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
 #1289

Does any one earned any interest from this site after lending money? Please comment with proof...

I lent some btc but in return I get almost nothing. I don't recommend this site for investment purposes.

What do you recommend then?

I personally only hear good reviews about BTCJam and I think it's the best on the business they are doing . Maybe Lituation simply didn't spend enough money to get a lot in return that's obvious , the more you invest , the more you get . That's how interest works .

@OP or any other s taff members around here , Does the documents needs to be in English language ? because some people simply aren't from USA , or United Kingdom or any other country that don't use english as main language

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June 12, 2015, 08:26:41 AM
 #1290

Should I invest here? Or is it better to refrain from such actions?
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June 14, 2015, 04:34:44 AM
 #1291

Should I invest here? Or is it better to refrain from such actions?

Your giving out a loan so there is always the chance that someone will default. You could try at Bitlendingclub but there will be the same problems. If your looking for a safe bet toss your investment in a CD or stack some 5k netspend, mangos and collect the interest.

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Malooka
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June 14, 2015, 05:58:42 AM
 #1292

Does any one earned any interest from this site after lending money? Please comment with proof...

I had some loans paid but a thief wiped out my profits.

I would say avoid the site overall - they don't do anything to scammers, and will even prevent you from posting anything too negative on their site about someone who scammed you.
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June 16, 2015, 11:04:50 AM
 #1293

Can you put some statistics about overdue / default loans on btcjam....
so lenders can know how much lending is risky? Thanks
The all time fully repayed loans for the site is increasing gradually, last stat was about 76.94% of all loans that has been taken out have been fully repayed and then there is some loans that is partially repayed and some of them is still active but not overdue so the total repayed on individual payment level is probably in the 85-90% level.
Its always recommended to diversify the investments to some degree, calculations from the fiat P2P lending world showed that one needed to make 146+ investments(but for example 500 was better) if investing equal amount in each investment to be garanteed to have +ROI on lending club, as the default rates is slightly higher and the interest rates is higher in the BTC P2P world its likely that the diversification needs to be larger so in the region of 500-1000-2000 investments will probably be needed to give a equally stable result. If one dont invest blindly in just any loans but choose wisely, then ones investments should be able to outperform the sites avg result a lot.

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June 16, 2015, 11:10:21 AM
 #1294

Seems like Tulkas connected today , It would be nice to answer us man .
In case you missed my message before "@OP or any other staff members around here , Does the documents like ID or Passport needs to be in English language ? because some people simply aren't from USA , or United Kingdom or any other country that don't use english as main language "

thy
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June 16, 2015, 12:31:08 PM
 #1295

Seems like Tulkas connected today , It would be nice to answer us man .
In case you missed my message before "@OP or any other staff members around here , Does the documents like ID or Passport needs to be in English language ? because some people simply aren't from USA , or United Kingdom or any other country that don't use english as main language "
The documents should be translated to English(or possibly other languages the staff members understand) i think i read somewhere in the past if they arent in English from the start so btcjam can understand them.

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June 30, 2015, 04:33:15 PM
 #1296

Service disgusting.
I tried five times to create a loan for the purchase and installation of Bitcoin ATM in Almaty, Kazakhstan. However, these loans have been removed without notice.
On the fifth time, they told me that the Bitcoin ATMs in Kazakhstan do not need! I do not ask them whether Bitcoin ATMs in Kazakhstan I want to get the money in loans from other users of the service.
Also, I noticed that prior to this event I had a rating of B rating after my conversion was suddenly C.
I recommend that you never use this service. I went to a place.
Sorry for my English.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3blf71/btcjamcom_is_disgusting_service/
http://forum.bitlendingclub.com/index.php?threads/why-i-am-here-btcjam-is-disgusting-service.1549/

BCH
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July 01, 2015, 10:03:34 PM
 #1297

I think BTCJam is really cool and I generally love P2P lending. So I did a simple experiment. I collected historical data from BTCjam and other Bitcoin P2P lending sites. Then I ran a simple simulation, where I invested into each loan on the platform and observed the outcome. Needless to say, I ended up with a huge loss.

Now this is interesting because all these P2P Bitcoin lending sites have a feature, called AutoInvest, which basically invests equally into all loans. That gives an expected net return in the range of 14% according to the sites. I really wonder how they came up with this number, given that investing into the all historical loans gives huge negative returns.

There's two explanations, either I did the analysis wrong, which is possible, or these sites are outright lying about their rates, their credit scores based on PayPal, Ebay etc are completely meaningless, and effectively they're just a massive scam fest. I contacted each site, including BTCJam, but received no reply.
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July 01, 2015, 10:47:46 PM
 #1298

I think BTCJam is really cool and I generally love P2P lending. So I did a simple experiment. I collected historical data from BTCjam and other Bitcoin P2P lending sites. Then I ran a simple simulation, where I invested into each loan on the platform and observed the outcome. Needless to say, I ended up with a huge loss.


How does that make any sense? You think it's cool... But, you ended up with a huge loss?

What did you do, invest in btcjam on like 3 shitty loans and they all defaulted?

 Tongue

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July 02, 2015, 12:01:57 AM
 #1299

I think BTCJam is really cool and I generally love P2P lending. So I did a simple experiment. I collected historical data from BTCjam and other Bitcoin P2P lending sites. Then I ran a simple simulation, where I invested into each loan on the platform and observed the outcome. Needless to say, I ended up with a huge loss.


How does that make any sense? You think it's cool... But, you ended up with a huge loss?

What did you do, invest in btcjam on like 3 shitty loans and they all defaulted?

 Tongue

probably invested in some shady looking "trading loans" that promised "large profits" with "skills," or one of those that invested into "cloud mining," way too many of those obviously fishy loans from what I see on there, along with tons of fake references from fake accounts.

theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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July 02, 2015, 04:34:52 PM
 #1300

I think BTCJam is really cool and I generally love P2P lending. So I did a simple experiment. I collected historical data from BTCjam and other Bitcoin P2P lending sites. Then I ran a simple simulation, where I invested into each loan on the platform and observed the outcome. Needless to say, I ended up with a huge loss.


How does that make any sense? You think it's cool... But, you ended up with a huge loss?

What did you do, invest in btcjam on like 3 shitty loans and they all defaulted?

 Tongue

If you're quoting me, at least learn the read. I said I ran a simulation. I did not invest into any loans personally, I just gathered data and a simulated investing and calculated how much I would have earned if had invested. You can do this, because for historical loans, you already know the outcome, that is whether the borrower ended up repaying or he defaulted.

Basically, when you run a simulation and invest into all historical loans, you must end up with a positive return. This validates the fact that BTC Jam does credit scoring properly, because the interest rates compensate for the probability of default. The fact that my simulation ended up with a huge loss means that BTC credit scoring does not work.

In addition, I think the idea is cool, but the implementation does not work. Is it clearer now?
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