[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[boonies4u]

The site is already exploding with some great loans, and it isn't their job to recover your funds for your mistakes

Then they're obstructing people from recovering their funds from their mistakes. If Tulkas has no plans to start collections, then him refusing to let other people collect will be bad for business.

Seriously are you going to file a lawsuit on people that default? No one has given a hard answer to this when I asked it before. Also what judge will rule with bitcoins?

"File a lawsuit" is a bit of a strong way to put it. Paying 15-150$ in small claims court fees seems appropriate, getting them to show is another story.

What do you mean by rule with bitcoins? Do you mean that the judge will award them defendent/plaintiff bitcoins? Certainly they won't do that as USD are appropriate for all debts public and private.

Hopefully the judge would take into consideration the currently traded values of bitcoins or the value of the bitcoins at the time the loan was established.

Seeking restitution in the courts and "Debt Collection" aren't the exact same thing though...

LMAO small claims yea cause someone who scammed 100's of btcs would show up. Also you know that there has never been a victory with bitcoins in court so yeah how would over come that?

How many losses with bitcoins in court are you aware of? http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/set+a+precedent

One that involved loaning

I hope that one loss won't prevent people from coming forward.

[1714662765]

1714662765

[mobile]

Does BTCJam impose a minimum deposit of funds? ie: minimum deposit = 0.01 BTC. The site FAQ is vague, only offering bare minimum "how to get started" instructions.

Cheers!

[ThaddeusB]

Guess it was just someone goofing up then.

If you are talking about Tulkas then I think this is a bit harsh.  I see the site constantly learning from mistakes and getting better.  Eliminating anon accounts is a huge step in the right direction.  Limiting the number of loans would also be a great advance.  I think Tulkas is doing a great job of taking feedback and constantly improving the site.  Over the last few months it has gotten better and safer with every update.

Having said that, the day you are able to recover funds from one of the many deadbeats is the day business on this site will explode!

I meant the scammer goofing up and revealing himself.

[tom1]

Does BTCJam impose a minimum deposit of funds?

I don't think so.

[miTgiB]

Does BTCJam impose a minimum deposit of funds?

I don't think so.

Also, I don't recall seeing it in the thread, but do not lend what you cannot afford to lose.

[Tulkas]

New service available, hedge your loans in other currencies.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145158.0

(posted new topic because this concept can be a little confusing for those unfamiliar with hedging)

[jim667]

I'd like to make a suggestion.

There probably are some people, who prefer to lend their coins on btcjam and remain anonymous at the same time. (I am one of those.) However, current rating system does not allow such people to rate other users, as the credit rating stays 0/17, while 3/17 is required to rate other people (correct me if I am wrong). Would it not make
sense to (also) give the priviledge to rate based on some combination of bitcoins invested and reputation?

[yellowdog213]

I'd like to make a suggestion.

There probably are some people, who prefer to lend their coins on btcjam and remain anonymous at the same time. (I am one of those.) However, current rating system does not allow such people to rate other users, as the credit rating stays 0/17, while 3/17 is required to rate other people (correct me if I am wrong). Would it not make
sense to (also) give the priviledge to rate based on some combination of bitcoins invested and reputation?

Verifying a couple things like your phone and social networking profiles will allow you to have a rating as well as basically stay anonymous. The moderators would be the only people who are able to see anything and you would therefore be anonymous to any other user on the site.

[Tulkas]

I'd like to make a suggestion.

There probably are some people, who prefer to lend their coins on btcjam and remain anonymous at the same time. (I am one of those.) However, current rating system does not allow such people to rate other users, as the credit rating stays 0/17, while 3/17 is required to rate other people (correct me if I am wrong). Would it not make
sense to (also) give the priviledge to rate based on some combination of bitcoins invested and reputation?

Will think about it. The problem is people make puppet accounts to rate themselves.
If you verify your identity no user of the site will have access to it.

[Snipes777]

I'd like to make a suggestion.

There probably are some people, who prefer to lend their coins on btcjam and remain anonymous at the same time. (I am one of those.) However, current rating system does not allow such people to rate other users, as the credit rating stays 0/17, while 3/17 is required to rate other people (correct me if I am wrong). Would it not make
sense to (also) give the priviledge to rate based on some combination of bitcoins invested and reputation?

You can launder your coins through a mixing service such as https://blockchain.info/wallet/send-anonymously. This way, you can have a legitimate identity that is gaining loans, but its association with your business activities or whatever is hidden. I offered a suggestion in the feedback area of the site to integrate a anonymizing mixing service for a couple % fee. However, you can do this on your own and it is not necessary to integrate. Then, you can have a full ID and rep tied to you, but you still aren't tied to the business and in explaining the loan you can be intentionally ambiguous.

Just an idea

[yellowdog213]

This may be a stupid question, but I'm not always very good at understanding things when I read them, so I apologize if this is stupid.

What is the purpose of having a linked paypal account? Is it simply another way for lenders to see who is reliable and such? Or will late payments be made using paypal? I have never used paypal so I am not sure how it works and such...

Again, sorry if this is a stupid question, but it would be great if someone could clear up my confusion for me!! Thank you!

[boonies4u]

This may be a stupid question, but I'm not always very good at understanding things when I read them, so I apologize if this is stupid.

What is the purpose of having a linked paypal account? Is it simply another way for lenders to see who is reliable and such? Or will late payments be made using paypal? I have never used paypal so I am not sure how it works and such...

Again, sorry if this is a stupid question, but it would be great if someone could clear up my confusion for me!! Thank you!

The more information a user gives to BTCJam (in the case of not-stolen identities) the less likely said user is to not pay off (or attempt to) pay off a loan. If this information is not used to begin collections then it just furthers secures the existence of one account per human.

[yellowdog213]

This may be a stupid question, but I'm not always very good at understanding things when I read them, so I apologize if this is stupid.

What is the purpose of having a linked paypal account? Is it simply another way for lenders to see who is reliable and such? Or will late payments be made using paypal? I have never used paypal so I am not sure how it works and such...

Again, sorry if this is a stupid question, but it would be great if someone could clear up my confusion for me!! Thank you!

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/verification-faq

BTCJam only accept verified paypal which is that paypal has done the hard work of making sure they say who they are.

Right, I understand this. But it does not mean that BTCJam will take money from paypal in order to pay overdue loans, correct? I understand that borrowers who have verified paypal are likely to be much more reliable, but things happen (people forget to pay on time, etc) and I am just wondering if paypal is being used as a back-up money supply for overdue payments on BTCJam.

[sal002]

Has anyone recently managed to import their bitcoin-otc profile?  I keep getting an error on importing gpg key.

[mobile]

Does BTCJam impose a minimum deposit of funds?

I don't think so.

Thanks for your response.

Now my the question i wrote BTCJam about is what protection does BTCJam offer to lenders that have fallen prey to a borrower that has not paid back :-/ We will see what happens.

[Tulkas]

Has anyone recently managed to import their bitcoin-otc profile?  I keep getting an error on importing gpg key.

Hello,

The bitcoin-otc import feature is back online.

[redwraith]

Does BTCJam impose a minimum deposit of funds?

I don't think so.

Thanks for your response.

Now my the question i wrote BTCJam about is what protection does BTCJam offer to lenders that have fallen prey to a borrower that has not paid back :-/ We will see what happens.

On the fiat P2P platforms like Prosper or Lending Club, the only protection you have is that they'll report the borrower to a collections agency.  I think they also tried suing early on, but with limited success.  This is the risk of unsecured lending.  I do believe you have to have a minimum credit score like a 660 or something close to that before you can borrow.  That actually weeds a lot of high risk borrowers out.  BTCJam would probably do well to institute something similar.

[miTgiB]

Does BTCJam impose a minimum deposit of funds?

I don't think so.

Thanks for your response.

Now my the question i wrote BTCJam about is what protection does BTCJam offer to lenders that have fallen prey to a borrower that has not paid back :-/ We will see what happens.

On the fiat P2P platforms like Prosper or Lending Club, the only protection you have is that they'll report the borrower to a collections agency.  I think they also tried suing early on, but with limited success.  This is the risk of unsecured lending.  I do believe you have to have a minimum credit score like a 660 or something close to that before you can borrow.  That actually weeds a lot of high risk borrowers out.  BTCJam would probably do well to institute something similar.

With the option to secure a loan I think credit score is irrelevant but speaking of Lending Club, a look at their collections practices http://www.lendacademy.com/the-collection-practices-at-lending-club/ So yes, if they see something collectible, they will bring litigation against the borrower.

[mobile]

Now my the question i wrote BTCJam about is what protection does BTCJam offer to lenders that have fallen prey to a borrower that has not paid back :-/ We will see what happens.

Obviously this site isn't for you if your asking that question. P2P lending go google none of them offer protection.

I am going to assume that you are referring to BTCJam being the site "not for me". Perhaps assumptions were made via my low forum ranking, assumptions of my overall knowledge base and awareness of the very nature of Bitcoin and the Internet itself. I am well aware of the risks associated with pretty much handing over my coin to another party. A transaction that was facilitated via a third party platform. Sure, It would be foolish for me to assume that everyone desires BTC to become more mainstream and/or more systematic for integration into world economies. But I will vouch and say that BTCJam could potentially be a stand out and raise the standard by offering some sort of protection. Perhaps we are still far out from this but even implementing a flagged list of scammers, such as http://bcchanger.com has up for display.

On the fiat P2P platforms like Prosper or Lending Club, the only protection you have is that they'll report the borrower to a collections agency.  I think they also tried suing early on, but with limited success.  This is the risk of unsecured lending.  I do believe you have to have a minimum credit score like a 660 or something close to that before you can borrow.  That actually weeds a lot of high risk borrowers out.  BTCJam would probably do well to institute something similar.

Indeed this is the risk of unsecured lending. "It is what it is" as they say. I will stay tuned and look forward to BTCJam implementing some of these practices mentioned, as I think it has much potential for growth. Until then BTC-OTC remains the most seasoned in regards to web of trust

With the option to secure a loan I think credit score is irrelevant but speaking of Lending Club, a look at their collections practices http://www.lendacademy.com/the-collection-practices-at-lending-club/ So yes, if they see something collectible, they will bring litigation against the borrower.

Thanks for passing on this link!

[hardcore-fs]

The issues I have:

1. They do not return all your funds, even after taking their %
2. They take their % before lending to scammers, rather than taking a % hit due to their bad auditing of people borrowing money.
3. Lack of viable systems to ensure scammers are kept off site.

This accounts for why their business is currently following a 'bell' curve, unless they get on top of the scammers BTCJAM will not survive.