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Nancarrow
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April 29, 2013, 08:57:44 AM |
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Question about the BTC deposit addresses: it says they're only valid for 24h. What happens if a user sends BTC to a deposit address that has expired? Because one current late payer is claiming that's what they did and why they're late. And that sounds like BS to me. Surely you keep the private keys to expired addresses?
This is only to prevent people from storing the address, all private keys are stored. In that case I should let you know about this listing, and subsequent communications, from 'Kidcamico': https://btcjam.com/listings/2198He claims that he funded an expired address. I have explained to him that, if this is the case, you can send him the coins back (or better still, send them on to his creditors, like ME). Even if you do not wish to disclose publicly whether or not the transfer happened as he says, and/or whether he's communicated with you, I feel you should at least be aware of this situation. |
If I've said anything amusing and/or informative and you're feeling generous:
1GNJq39NYtf7cn2QFZZuP5vmC1mTs63rEW
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Unlike traditional banking where clients have only a few account numbers, with Bitcoin people can create an unlimited number of accounts (addresses). This can be used to easily track payments, and it improves anonymity.
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Smoovious
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April 29, 2013, 12:18:55 PM |
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This is only to prevent people from storing the address, all private keys are stored. And what's wrong with storing the address? That's what the Address Book is for. -- Smoov |
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prof7bit
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May 01, 2013, 10:06:06 AM |
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Not only are there 50% scammers on that platform, BTCJam *itself* is stealing money! Even if the other 50% of honest borrowers are paying back the loans BTCJam will silently steal up to 60% of the repaid amount! I suggest renaming it to BTCScam! Look at this screenshot:  |
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BurtW
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1131
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
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May 01, 2013, 10:24:55 AM |
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Thoses were all just USD denominated loans. You should only make USD denominated loans if you are short BTC (believe BTC is going to go down in price relative to USD).
If you make USD denominated loans and the price of BTC is rising you will get back less BTC than you loan out.
That is just a fact.
No scam.
Just someone (you) that failed to understand the contract.
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Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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prof7bit
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May 01, 2013, 10:33:14 AM |
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Thoses were all just USD denominated loans.
No, these were BTC nominated. Look up these user names and see for yourself, everything BTC nominated. I havent seen any USD loans at all at BTCJam. |
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BurtW
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1131
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
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May 01, 2013, 10:35:38 AM |
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Thoses were all just USD denominated loans.
No, these were BTC nominated. Look up these user names and see for yourself, everything BTC nominated. I havent seen any USD loans at all at BTCJam. You need to look harder, from your first example loan: Amount @ Rate
฿5.00000 @ 15.0%
MtGoxUSD That little "chain link MtGoxUSD" on a loan means "tied to MtGoxUSD rate" = USD denominated loan. |
Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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prof7bit
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May 01, 2013, 10:38:10 AM |
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You need to look harder, from your first example loan: Amount @ Rate
฿5.00000 @ 15.0%
MtGoxUSD And if you look even harder then you will see that in the second column the payment is denominated in BTC in this listing and not in USD. |
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BurtW
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1131
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
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May 01, 2013, 10:39:57 AM |
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You need to look harder, from your first example loan: Amount @ Rate
฿5.00000 @ 15.0%
MtGoxUSD And if you look even harder then you will see that the payment is denominated in BTC in this listing and not in USD. If a loan has the "tied to MtGoxUSD" symbol then you will be paid in BTC but the loan is USD denominated. End of story. Stop beating your head against the wall. I am not the wall. I am just telling you something you did not know before. MOUSE OVER THE "chained to MtGoxUSD" symbol on one of the loans and read the tooltip very carefully!I never make these kinds of loans because I am long BTC so thet are stupid. |
Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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prof7bit
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May 01, 2013, 10:54:51 AM
Last edit: May 01, 2013, 11:14:42 AM by prof7bit |
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If a loan has the "tied to MtGoxUSD" symbol then
So if there appears some strange random gif image somewhere on the website in the listing then the entire listing along with the written *NUMBERS* of the payback amount and its boldly visible and totally unambiguous *BTC DENOMINATION* suddenly become totally meaningless? The boldly written and legally bindig promise: " payback: xyz BTC" becomes meaningless by some random gif image on the website but it still remains boldly written ther in the listing: "Payment xyz BTC" instead of being replaced by "Payment: unknown amount in USD, converted into BTC at unknown rate"?´ Thats what I call scam.. If this website operates in any sane jurisdiction and the amount would be high enough to make it reasonable to sue them then such a scam would not stand any chance in a court of law. One cannot boldly promise: " Paymant will be x BTC" (clearly having fixed amount and fixed currency) and then silently invalidate this by some hidden alt tag in some small gif image that explains that what is boldly written above is only meant as a joke and not to be taken serious and in reality it will of course be paid not in BTC but in Zimbabwe-Dollars or US-Dollars. Such kind of obvious scam would not stand the slightest chance in any court in any jurisdiction I am aware of. Anyways, I'm out of here. Its clearly a scam and you are defending it, fortunately the amount I lost is small for me. |
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BurtW
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1131
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
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May 01, 2013, 11:32:47 AM |
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I am not defending it. I have stated many many times that I believe USD denominated loans are a very bad idea for the lenders (good idea for the borrowers though).
BTW I am also out of here. Not because I didn't understand the MtGoxUSD gif but because even good and very good loans go bad and then there is nothing I can do to even try to collect them or propose a settlement with the borrower.
When I do loans myself (as I have been doing for years) if the borrower gets into trouble we can talk, modify terms etc.
Here they still do nothing to even try to collect the debt.
I hope that in the future they do implement some collections system and that I may get back some part of the large amount of BTC I lost in this experiment.
Good luck guys.
Small nit but why do you keep that last little 0.0045 BTC? I tried and I cannot totally clear out my account here. I find this kind of insulting that after all my losses I cannot get all my remaining BTC back from you.
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Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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Tulkas (OP)
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May 01, 2013, 02:00:04 PM |
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I am not defending it. I have stated many many times that I believe USD denominated loans are a very bad idea for the lenders (good idea for the borrowers though).
BTW I am also out of here. Not because I didn't understand the MtGoxUSD gif but because even good and very good loans go bad and then there is nothing I can do to even try to collect them or propose a settlement with the borrower.
When I do loans myself (as I have been doing for years) if the borrower gets into trouble we can talk, modify terms etc.
Here they still do nothing to even try to collect the debt.
I hope that in the future they do implement some collections system and that I may get back some part of the large amount of BTC I lost in this experiment.
Good luck guys.
Small nit but why do you keep that last little 0.0045 BTC? I tried and I cannot totally clear out my account here. I find this kind of insulting that after all my losses I cannot get all my remaining BTC back from you.
BurtW, we have implemented some of that missing features you mentioned: 1) Motions: borrowers can create a motion to change the loan terms, they are submitted to be voted by investors. boonies4u was the first borrower to use it. 2) We have implemented an arbitration system and the identities of the defaulters will be disclosed to lenders if the award is granted, the listing activation agreement is updated and all the loans made after march are subject to it. We have placed a FAQ online, it will soon cover that new features, i will also announce it here. I'm sorry for your bad experience in the past, but I believe the system has improved a lot recently. |
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sal002
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May 01, 2013, 02:35:50 PM |
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2) We have implemented an arbitration system and the identities of the defaulters will be disclosed to lenders if the award is granted, the listing activation agreement is updated and all the loans made after march are subject to it.
Can arbitration be used even if no default to clarify terms of the loan? I assume it is no longer thru judge.me (as I never got a response on the arbitration I opened), correct? |
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GenTarkin
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2450
Merit: 1002
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May 01, 2013, 02:56:57 PM |
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Is there something Im missing?
I deposited only 1BTC
Ive done enough lending and my stats say Received: 1.6xxx BTC
But my balance is only 1.03xx BTC
EVEN if I added up my pending + late .. it comes nowhere close to this magical 1.6xxx Im supposed to have...
So, my question is WHERE is my missing BTC?
Ive taken no BTC out of btcjam
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Tulkas (OP)
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May 01, 2013, 03:34:31 PM |
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Is there something Im missing?
I deposited only 1BTC
Ive done enough lending and my stats say Received: 1.6xxx BTC
But my balance is only 1.03xx BTC
EVEN if I added up my pending + late .. it comes nowhere close to this magical 1.6xxx Im supposed to have...
So, my question is WHERE is my missing BTC?
Ive taken no BTC out of btcjam
I will check your account and get back to you. |
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GenTarkin
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2450
Merit: 1002
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May 01, 2013, 07:04:38 PM |
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Is there something Im missing?
I deposited only 1BTC
Ive done enough lending and my stats say Received: 1.6xxx BTC
But my balance is only 1.03xx BTC
EVEN if I added up my pending + late .. it comes nowhere close to this magical 1.6xxx Im supposed to have...
So, my question is WHERE is my missing BTC?
Ive taken no BTC out of btcjam
I will check your account and get back to you. How can you check if u dont know my username on btcjam? lol.... |
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boonies4u
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May 01, 2013, 08:50:11 PM |
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Is there something Im missing?
I deposited only 1BTC
Ive done enough lending and my stats say Received: 1.6xxx BTC
But my balance is only 1.03xx BTC
EVEN if I added up my pending + late .. it comes nowhere close to this magical 1.6xxx Im supposed to have...
So, my question is WHERE is my missing BTC?
Ive taken no BTC out of btcjam
I will check your account and get back to you. How can you check if u dont know my username on btcjam? lol.... Did you connect your bitcointalk username to BTCJam? 1) Motions: borrowers can create a motion to change the loan terms, they are submitted to be voted by investors. boonies4u was the first borrower to use it.
+confirm |
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filharvey
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May 01, 2013, 09:25:03 PM |
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Not sure why I'm paying off this months loan installment which is due, considering out of all the loans I have made, only 3 out of 17 payments have been made.
Maybe I should be like everyone else and not care about paying things off when the currency moves against me.
Phil
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GenTarkin
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2450
Merit: 1002
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May 01, 2013, 11:54:14 PM |
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Is there something Im missing?
I deposited only 1BTC
Ive done enough lending and my stats say Received: 1.6xxx BTC
But my balance is only 1.03xx BTC
EVEN if I added up my pending + late .. it comes nowhere close to this magical 1.6xxx Im supposed to have...
So, my question is WHERE is my missing BTC?
Ive taken no BTC out of btcjam
I will check your account and get back to you. How can you check if u dont know my username on btcjam? lol.... Did you connect your bitcointalk username to BTCJam? 1) Motions: borrowers can create a motion to change the loan terms, they are submitted to be voted by investors. boonies4u was the first borrower to use it.
+confirm Ah, I guess at some point I did =P just checked up on it. |
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boonies4u
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May 02, 2013, 05:53:27 PM |
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Speaking of the motion. Under the approved field it is still listed as "voting in progress" when the voting period should have expired two days ago.
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supermono
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May 04, 2013, 06:22:47 AM |
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I just read the below on the new "General FAQ" page:
"Is BTCJam responsible for the loan repayment?
No. This is a P2P bitcoin lending platform, the borrower is the sole responsible for all repayments. If the borrower defaults the loan is sent to our partner judge.me. If the arbitration award is granted the borrower information will be submitted to the local authorities."
Tulkas, can you tell me more about this? Does this mean that defaulted loans will now be sent to collections agencies and/or reported on people's credit reports? And will this apply just to new loans taken out in the future, or is it possible also to do this with some of the older loans? Over the last 6 months I've gradually lost nearly all my BTC investing in loans in BTCJam, and I would love to get some of that back, even if the collections agency takes a % of it. I would also like to see the defaulters, especially the people who defaulted in October-January before the exchange rate skyrocketed, facing some consequences for what they did, and I think BTCJam needs this, if it wants to begin to shed its reputation of being a haven for scammers.
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