Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[FLHippy]

Its a scam,
Just wait for it

+1. I'm not sure that this is a scam but if it is, I suspect that the devs/other employees at BFL will be among the victims.

I would have to agree with this sentiment... *if* the shit goes sour, the employees will be just as shocked as the victims.

I worked for a small telemarketing company when I was a young man... back when the world was in black & white and dinosaurs roamed the earth. One day when we showed up for work, the doors were chained shut by the feds and the owners were long gone. I mean, they ran off with the money OVERNIGHT. No-one was more shocked than the regional manager who gave all 20 of us $50 out of his own bank account so that people could eat while we waited for the unemployment checks to start.

We sold a real product that really existed. It wasn't worth $299 but it was real. We worked in a real office, there was nice furniture and we paid taxes and had health benefits. Just your normal phone room. Shit we had people who took care of the plants. No one had any clue they were part of an elaborate scam.

 This was the vitamin craze of the mid 80s. What we didn't know is about 6 months earlier they just stopped shipping orders and pocketed all the money. The customers got their first week's supply of vitamins cause we shipped that out of our office ourselves but they never got the rest of the year supply they paid for or the "special bonus item" they were promised which was a cheap boom-box.

 they had offices in vegas, providence RI, and atlanta GA. The feds chained all the doors at all the locations the same morning and they were not able to catch 1 single person who pulled a runner with the cash.

   When tax time came, the government wanted their tax money. The scammers had kept the tax money they had deducted from our paychecks and pocketed that too. The government didn't care that we had been scammed, we still had to pay double taxes that year.

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[pretendo]

Who engineered these complicated pieces of hardware? Doesn't this require industrial facilities with extremely specialized equipment and people with extremely precise expertise?

[pyrkne]

Who engineered these complicated pieces of hardware? Doesn't this require industrial facilities with extremely specialized equipment and people with extremely precise expertise?

You're asking about the BFL ASIC chips? I imagine they have hired the relevant talent by now.

Before they made Bitcoin related devices, didn't BFL do ASICs for other stuff? They might have already had the talent on hand.

[Zeek_W]

There is nothing new here.  These are all old allegations, many of which are not quite correct.  I wonder what the OP motive is?!

They will ship, it will be late, but they will ship.  Then there will be an outcry from all those who didnt jump in at the start thats its so unfair.

You pays your money you takes your chance!

He may be right, but he may also be heavily invested in ASIC purchases and trying to dissuade others from also joining in on ASIC fun. You know, so he gets a bigger slice of the pie

[nx2059]

As to this company in particular, the fact that they have a convicted scammer in there (allegedly) is a big, big red flag to me. Even if I was optimistic about the technology, I'd probably be looking for it elsewhere.

I agree.  Given the insane scam to honest business ratio in the bitcoin world just that fact alone makes me not even consider doing business with them.

[Francesco]

As to this company in particular, the fact that they have a convicted scammer in there (allegedly) is a big, big red flag to me. Even if I was optimistic about the technology, I'd probably be looking for it elsewhere.

I agree.  Given the insane scam to honest business ratio in the bitcoin world just that fact alone makes me not even consider doing business with them.

Remember BitDayTrade/BDT? "Yes, he had some concerning issues in the past, but everyone deserves a second opportunity, what he proposes is so awesome"... bitcoins down the drain.

[btc-bullion]

if you can't hold it, you don't own it

even if i will be a month or so late to the ASIC party, i will be waiting for posts of successful shipments before ordering from any of the manufactures. 

[pyra-proxy]

if you can't hold it, you don't own it

even if i will be a month or so late to the ASIC party, i will be waiting for posts of successful shipments before ordering from any of the manufactures. 

This is what I did with my BFL singles and now I happily own several... for some it is better to be safe and a little late, for others they'll happily make the risks to get maximum reward.  I am only going to "trade-in" part of my BFLs until things are fully proven to take the middle ground risk/reward ratio

[Richy_T]

if you can't hold it, you don't own it

even if i will be a month or so late to the ASIC party, i will be waiting for posts of successful shipments before ordering from any of the manufactures.  

Successful shipments may occur in order to get those who are holding off to release their cash. Of course, this is getting into somewhat Machiavellian territory but consider that even Madoff was paying out at first.

Again, I'm not saying that this *is* a scam, I really don't know. Just if you're going in, go in with your eyes open.

Personally, to me, the big red flag is this Sonny chap. If I was buying, I'd want to know when he came on board and what he's bringing to the table. If it's something that seems true good to be true (cheap fab etc), well, you know the rest.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I just clicked the media link in their menu bar and it's a Google search for butterfly labs (no quotes): https://www.google.com/search?q=butterfly+labs

[Jutarul]

I just clicked the media link in their menu bar and it's a Google search for butterfly labs (no quotes): https://www.google.com/search?q=butterfly+labs

Does that mean they are going to extend their long con to infinity with all the effort they put into their company?

[BeetcoinScummer]

It is a long con. The con is on the Nth product generation. All products up to generation N-1 will be valid products that will be delivered to customers. On the Nth generation they will take your pre-order money and run.

The question is, what is N? 

Will N happen during my lifetime?

Does N = 2?

[Inaba]

N = NP ?  Na...

[SEC agent]

I said it was a scam as well, but forum moderator "psy" saw it fit to delete my post.  Seems to go in line with this forums policy to protect and promote scans.

Funny how the whole libertarian freedom thing goes out the window once you go against the moderator's personal veiws.

[Foxpup]

I said it was a scam as well, but forum moderator "psy" saw it fit to delete my post.  Seems to go in line with this forums policy to protect and promote scans.

Do you have proof that it's a scam? Remember, they've already delivered on their FPGAs, as promised, and they function as advertised, so they would seem to be a legitimate company, albeit one with extremely poor customer service. You can't just accuse a legitimate company of being a huge scam without evidence. You can say it might be scam, and you can list reasons why it's probably a scam, but you can't outright say it is a scam unless you have damn good evidence to support your claim.

Funny how the whole libertarian freedom thing goes out the window once you go against the moderator's personal veiws.

You clearly have absolutely no understanding of freedom, in particular freedom of association. Freedom of association means that if a private association has certain rules, and you voluntarily agree to those rules in order to join said association, then the association's leaders have the freedom to punish you if you break the rules you agreed to. If you disagree with the rules, you have the freedom to leave and form your own association, with your own rules. You do not have the freedom to make accusations without any supporting evidence when this is against the rules you voluntarily agreed to.

[BobbyJo]

Why is there all this talk of scams?  There is obv=iously risk associated with buying anything from any manufacturer:  Will they deliver, on time, to spec etc etc.  However there is also risk with not upgrading and being left behind.  Its an individual choice to buy BFL or not to buy.  Anything on here is pure speculation until BFL either delivers or runs off with the loot.  I think that alot of what has been written on here strays into the teritory of libel!  so for your sake I hope you have some proof!!

[samson]

if you can't hold it, you don't own it

even if i will be a month or so late to the ASIC party, i will be waiting for posts of successful shipments before ordering from any of the manufactures. 

+1 If they were available right now I'd order one today but I'm sending no money to anyone before it's proven.

[MarkOST]

When the first threads on Butterflylabs started I was able to walk right up to the building.


Empty... No employees, nothing going on at all.



Then I witnessed one mega thread turn into 2-3 mega threads of people arguing and trying to figure it out.


It's exactly as the OP stated. If these machines existed then THEY WOULD NEVER SELL THEM.

Minning would be FAR MORE profitable and this company would take great strides to keep it a trade secret.


There is absolutely no advantage of flooding the market with these next generation minning machines that will make all current GPU minning obsolete - while not jumping on the bandwagon themselves.


These customers are extremely gullible. Just stop and think about it for 2 seconds.


It's literally as if they discovered a way to print free money, and instead of spending it themselves they sell it to you for 10% of the original price.


~~~~~~~~BIG OBVIOUS SCAM~~~~~~~~~

[Inaba]

You, my friend, are a liar!  Pics or it didn't happen.

[underminer]

I'm seriously skeptical about someone with 10 posts having been on this forum for long enough for that to be true as well.

Pics please.