Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[Aahzman]

So, all you yammers spamming about how the CEO is a "convicted felon"....  So what? He was tried, convicted, SERVED HIS FUCKING SENTENCE. Nobody believes a person can learn from their mistakes?

I don't know the guy, I don't work for BFL, I don't really give a flying fox fart, but y'all seem to be on a witch hunt, and dragging up this guy's record like a conviction 7 years ago automatically guarantees he's still a fraudster.  How many of you judgemental folks can say with complete honesty that there's nothing you've done in your past that you don't regret doing? Something you knew was wrong, and that you wouldn't want people to know about...

I just think it's a bit shitty to just assume that because he was involved in a fraud 6 years ago, that he's somehow masterminding a massive ripoff through BFL...  caution is one thing, a blatant witch hunt is something else entirely, and y'all are on a witch hunt.

Just my 0.02BTC, but just because someone was convicted of something years ago, doesn't mean they are guilty of a crime NOW. If you have legitimate, conclusive proof that what the guy is doing at BFL is illegal, then call the FBI or the police and have some action started. Otherwise, just sit back and wait to see what happens... Past Conviction != Current Criminal

[mattyrain]

I like risk-takers like the BFL guys. Hopefully they can weather whatever storm they're facing and ship the damn ASICs.

[RustyGunz]

Pulling advertising can be an incredibly powerful tool to get things in motion. This is the largest BTC forum from what i understand and clearly to this point the admins have seen no reason to stop advertising BFL on the site. However, if this site did not allow BFL to advertise, their exposure would decline fairly dramatically, especially to newbs (who come to forums first to learn as much as possible about a new venture and can be especially vulnerable to too-good-to-be-true offers). So, if you want a company to respond and get the gears turning, you remove their public exposure until they can absolutely assure they're not a scam. I realize forums usually solely survive off of ad dollars so the likelihood of this happening is little to none but nevertheless its a thought.

[CRkfx1]

BFL is not a typical "take your money and run" scam.  They are completely legit IMO. 

But it is a scam nonetheless. The only reason I say this is because the more you invest with them, the less ROI you'll get.  And they're pretty forward about telling this to new customers.  There's a couple threads started by actual BFL reps in their forums that explain this.  Same is true for any company that sells ASIC's, also IMO.

[BitGlory]

....I don't care if it's a scam or not, I want my miner so I'm going to pay 30k$!.......
....My mom bought one and they said that they have some problem and she'll wait 1-2 months. THEY SEEMS VERY LEGIT, I WANT TO BUY 2 FOR 60K DOLLARS!......
........BitEnthusuast65: I want my miner, I ordered one the last year and nothing....BitLover999: NO, you're a lier!......

lol

[creativex]

BFL is not a typical "take your money and run" scam.  They are completely legit IMO.  

But it is a scam nonetheless. The only reason I say this is because the more you invest with them, the less ROI you'll get.  And they're pretty forward about telling this to new customers.  There's a couple threads started by actual BFL reps in their forums that explain this.  Same is true for any company that sells ASIC's, also IMO.

Except the other ASIC mining hardware vendors haven't missed their shipping date by nearly SEVEN MONTHS and haven't conveniently underestimated power consumption by 500%. When you order products from Avalon or ASICMiner you get an estimated shipping date that's a real estimate and not just fabricated bs to keep the pre-order funds rolling in. BFL is also the only company remaining of the original four vendors that has a never ending order queue, the others sell hardware at a rate they're able to deliver in a timely fashion.

[teriaki]

I love the people who have seen video of a prototype that shipped are ready to declare it not a scam.

A fool and his money or something.

[GerMG]

I love the people who have seen video of a prototype that shipped are ready to declare it not a scam.

A fool and his money or something.

or something

[charleshoskinson]

Something Something, Dark side

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

To be fair most websites will happily advertise all sorts of unrelated ads such weightless scams and other shady products, you could argue that forum management have no obligation to decide what is right and what is wrong for you. Personally I would only advertise products that I believe in but what we are seeing on these forums is no different from 98% of the other ad supported sites on the web. Those who click ads and impulse buy without even researching are asking to get scammed to be honest.

[solidshotnosh]

If you go to the scam accusations section of the forum, there is a thread on this, and towards the end someone links a video of a shipped unit.

[obiwanjabroni]

Don't buy the BFL mining equipment its too expensive and it takes up too much power and the difficulty will be too high. So if I were you I would ask for a refund if you have purchased and if you are considering purchasing one don't... "pssst do you think they bought it?'
 
But seriously its all a risk and like I have told my friends and family as they have all gotten into the bitcoin wave that until more vendors come on accepting bitcoins only invest what you are prepared to literally throw away. That's what it boils down to and I have spent and invested as much as I can afford lose. I will still be choked but I have blown more cash on stupid things, like where's my laser disc player now or my sega dreamcast. Needless to say if its a scam it will suck but my life will still go on, I won't have to claim bankruptcy, my home won't go into default but I may try to pawn that laserdisc player-obi

[ISAWHIM]

lol, I am confuse!...

BFL uses too much power? What? It uses 1/100th the power of any equivelant non-ASIC rig! (Even at its new reported power-use.)

But as for the laser-disk player... I agree... This is, for most of us, a "toy" a "novelty", a "gadget"... But for the remainder, it is a legitimate and serious "investment".

All investments have risks. Nothing is "risk free"... Nothing! (Thus, it is redundant to even mention.)

Still, the fact of the matter is... ASIC is not the pipe-dream many are "tricked" into believing it will be. It is a very real "dream crusher" for those who will own one, and those who don't own one.. but not for the market and not for the people using bitcoins. For them, it is a "required and needed" advancement. Faster transactions, more stability, more availability, and less coin-overhead. (As opposed to now, where the value is mostly "lost shelf-life" inflation from power-hungry kids running overpriced GPU's and CPU's to handle the load.)

The value will continue to rise and fall, even after GPU's stop being used. THe next market level is roughly 1000 USD per BTC, naturally, until the next-gen hardware and volume of transactions increase. The missing element here is still "trust", which is the ONLY limiting factor of this market.

[rayman]

Have somebody posted any proof that BFL is creating some real devices? Not just a box with fans?

[Agapit Backer]

Have somebody posted any proof that BFL is creating some real devices? Not just a box with fans?

read today's Bitcoinmagazine ))

[roy7]

Have somebody posted any proof that BFL is creating some real devices? Not just a box with fans?

If you don't believe the videos that have posted are "proof" of a real device existing, what are you looking for?

[Agapij Babcock]

Have somebody posted any proof that BFL is creating some real devices? Not just a box with fans?

here is a link http://bitcoinmagazine.com/butterfly-labs-ships-first-finished-asic-for-review/

[ISAWHIM]

There are machines running online now. There are many videos of them running, connecting, and in "reviewers" hands (for the new ones)... The older ones, are in many peoples hands already.

Google it, youtube it... This is old news.

Only the "new versions", are just-now being "given out", as they pass production testing. This is not bigfoot here. These do exist. Unlike any other "still in creation" device being offered.

Releases are slow, at the moment, as expected, as stated. It has been confirmed as "not a scam", if that is your fear. This isn't an over-night company.

[Agapit Backer]

I consider it as a proof that they have real ASIC

[TR4L]

Aahzman wrote:

Maybe you should stand somewhere else.

- The guy "running the company" isn't the guy who was convicted of mail fraud. *BUZZ* try again.
- They never promised ASIC product for August 2012. They predicted they'd be able to ship by October 2012. *BUZZ* try again.
- Ok, this one is accurate. Josh does come off like a humongous douchecanoe. *DING*
- UH, no, press releases are not "always 'great' and exactly what you want to hear". Most press releases are apologizing for yet another delay, production/testing problem, etc, and begging for customer patience and forgiveness. In fact, the vast majority of press releases are pretty much the OPPOSITE of "exactly what you want to hear", since I'm sure the overwhelming majority of pre-order customers want to hear "Hey, we're shipping your unit(s) now!" *BUZZ*

SO, let's see, 3 out of 4 assertions incorrect.  *golfclap*

But yes, please do continue to encourage people to cancel their pre-orders and get refunds. Every cancelled pre-order earlier than mine means I move up the line and get mine sooner.
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I have a question regarding the bolded statement -- The guy "running the company" isn't the guy who was convicted of mail fraud.
Before my question however, I would like to share a story:

There was a newly created school in NY for 5 year olds. This school promised to essentially turn 5 year olds into Einsteins within 30 days. It's promise was that it would increase the IQ of a student by 30-40 points.  The "guy running the school" (the Principal) was a highly qualified individual who was well liked by both the school's staff as well as the parents.  Every parent who enrolled their child into the school believed that the school could indeed significantly increase the IQ of their children. Their wish was that they're child could someday grow up to change the world for the better.  The blogs and reviews for the school were extremely positive.  The school's advertisements could been seen everywhere.  If a Google search of the words increase+IQ were performed, the first paid ad that appeared was for the school. But the clouds began to darken.

A parent, concerned that 30 days had elapsed and her 5 year old son "Johny" still didn't know his ABC's began to dig into the background of the staff and to her surprise discovered that a "high level executive" within the schoold was a Registered Sex Offender (a pedophile), a Level 1 to be precise (the most violent/determined to reoffend again). He was arrested and convicted of raping a 5 year old boy.  This "high level executive" was actually on parole and a condition of his parole was that he not have any contact with children.  His presence in the school as a "high level executive" was therefore a clear violation of the conditions of his parole. 

When the concerned parent began telling the other parents about what she had discovered, they began to surmise that maybe, just maybe, this "high level executive" was actually the one pulling all the strings in the school and that the "guy running the school" (the Principal) was just a front man, after all, you couldn't have a convicted pedophile as the Principal of a school for 5 year olds. More rumors began to spread that maybe, just maybe, the entire school was a scam devised by the convicted pedophile as a means to gain access to hundreds of 5 year olds, where he could have his pick.

As word began to spread, parents began to remove their children from the school.  Many parents however, kept their children enrolled despite the fact that their 5 year olds would be in the same building on a daily basis with this convicted pedophile. They continued to keep their children in the school even after 60 days elapsed and there was no increase in their child's intelligence, then 90 days and no increase, then 120 days and no increase, then 150 days and no increase, then 180 days and no increase.  Eventually, the school year came to an end and the children were no smarter than the day they first entered the school.  But despite this, some parents planned to re-enroll their children the following year. Their rationale was that they believed that the school could deliver even after it failed to deliver month after month for the prior school year.

When asked why they would keep their children in the school after its failure to deliver as promised, they couldn't provide a logical answer. They would always provide a statement that translated into "I still believe in the school because I have hope that they might deliver" and when asked about the convicted pedophile lurking within the school, they responded that he wasn't a teacher nor was he the principal, he was a "high level executive" walking amongst their children on a daily basis.

So my question is as follows:

If you were to initially enroll your child into this school and it continued to fail to deliver (increase his/her IQ by 30-40 points in 30 days) and then you discovered that a "high level executive" working inside of the school was convicted pedophile, would you keep your child in the school?

I understand that this is quite late compared to the post, but this post is pretty ridiculous.  First of all, if you're going to compare teaching kids with delivering ASIC units, you have to add that the ONLY other school does not take any students and your only other option is homeschool (and for arguments sake, let's say they're learning rocket science, you know... because not very many people know how to build an ASIC miner... or rocket science..).  Second of all, you should relate the convict to a principal that stole money from a college that he worked at, rather than a pedophile.  Pedophilia is purely disgusting and is far worse than stealing money, regardless of how you look at it, the 2 shouldn't be connected in any way (unless the Pedo stole money, but that would be another story altogether).

You can hate on BFL all you want, but this is a terrible analogy; not only is it offensive (to people that had their child raped or have been raped themselves as children) but it also made you look like a complete asshole.