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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 375383 times)
massnerder
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April 30, 2013, 05:40:42 PM
 #901

As a newbie who has done many hours of research, I can't say very much about BFL in general.

What is pretty obvious is that these things probably won't be worth the investment by the time people start to actually get them, assuming they do ship.  We can debate whether they are fraudulent or just incompetent, but IMHO it really doesn't matter one way or the other.  If I invest some money into a BFL device and actually get it someday, the mining difficulty will have risen so much that it won't be worth running for anybody other than the very first few who get them, except of course for the 'cool' factor.  Whether they are legit or not, it seems that either way I would lose.  At least, that's what I have gathered from the last week or trying to catch up on the issue...  Am I wrong?  Why / Why not?

Two factors that drove my decision (sofar) against throwing any money at BFL were the highly unprofessional conduct of the poster in this thread (like it or not, you represent the company)- his arguing, name calling, and refusal to simply post links to the answers to many folks questions.  All because he claims these questions have been answered many times and the answers are out there for all to see.  Nobody is asking that he sit there and type out the answers again, but posting a link would be far more effective both for the company as a whole and for his position in the discussion while requiring much less effort on his part than arguing with people.  The more links there are out there to the same answers many people seek, the less people will be asking, and less people would be speculating on the alleged shady nature of their operation.  Not to mention that it is just bad customer service to make folks go out and search for those answers when a simple copy/paste would make many readers happy.  Secondly, these devices are bitcoin specific and won't be much good for mining others like litecoin.  So assuming I did get a unit and mine with it, once the maximum amount of bitcoins have been mined I now own a really fancy paperweight.
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RAVENCROW
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April 30, 2013, 05:46:51 PM
 #902

anyone know what the estimated difficulty will be once all there orders ship out apparently tho if you didn't order big your gonna be sol?

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April 30, 2013, 05:55:26 PM
 #903

As a newbie who has done many hours of research, I can't say very much about BFL in general.

What is pretty obvious is that these things probably won't be worth the investment by the time people start to actually get them, assuming they do ship.  We can debate whether they are fraudulent or just incompetent, but IMHO it really doesn't matter one way or the other.  If I invest some money into a BFL device and actually get it someday, the mining difficulty will have risen so much that it won't be worth running for anybody other than the very first few who get them, except of course for the 'cool' factor.  Whether they are legit or not, it seems that either way I would lose.  At least, that's what I have gathered from the last week or trying to catch up on the issue...  Am I wrong?  Why / Why not?

Two factors that drove my decision (sofar) against throwing any money at BFL were the highly unprofessional conduct of the poster in this thread (like it or not, you represent the company)- his arguing, name calling, and refusal to simply post links to the answers to many folks questions.  All because he claims these questions have been answered many times and the answers are out there for all to see.  Nobody is asking that he sit there and type out the answers again, but posting a link would be far more effective both for the company as a whole and for his position in the discussion while requiring much less effort on his part than arguing with people.  The more links there are out there to the same answers many people seek, the less people will be asking, and less people would be speculating on the alleged shady nature of their operation.  Not to mention that it is just bad customer service to make folks go out and search for those answers when a simple copy/paste would make many readers happy.  Secondly, these devices are bitcoin specific and won't be much good for mining others like litecoin.  So assuming I did get a unit and mine with it, once the maximum amount of bitcoins have been mined I now own a really fancy paperweight.

It is hard to say, but it seems like we might go through another phase where we have to pay for power at some point.  It might be possible that people will take on litecoin as btc 2.0 because of all the shit associated with key-BTC players.  I could be totally wrong, but I like speculation.
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April 30, 2013, 06:02:51 PM
 #904

anyone know what the estimated difficulty will be once all there orders ship out apparently tho if you didn't order big your gonna be sol?
Pretty much anyone without a significant hashrate investment near the end of the year (when BFL might be close to finished shipping the current orders) won't be making much BTC. Caveat emptor of course, but if DIY Avalon chip boards start becoming online around august, difficulty will skyrocket by then.

Shut up and give me money: 115UAYWLPTcRQ2hrT7VNo84SSFE5nT5ozo
xpman
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April 30, 2013, 06:03:31 PM
 #905

So there's a lot of hate going round for the BFL ASICs.  Does anyone know of any other reasonable alternatives that can give the similar level of (promised) power at the same price?

Are there any good competitors, basically?
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April 30, 2013, 06:04:49 PM
 #906

anyone know what the estimated difficulty will be once all there orders ship out apparently tho if you didn't order big your gonna be sol?
Pretty much anyone without a significant hashrate investment near the end of the year (when BFL might be close to finished shipping the current orders) won't be making much BTC. Caveat emptor of course, but if DIY Avalon chip boards start becoming online around august, difficulty will skyrocket by then.

Are we really expecting the ship date to be by the end of 2013?  Considering they're already shipping, shouldn't all orders be fulfilled within the next couple of months?
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April 30, 2013, 06:05:26 PM
 #907

So there's a lot of hate going round for the BFL ASICs.  Does anyone know of any other reasonable alternatives that can give the similar level of (promised) power at the same price?

Are there any good competitors, basically?
Avalon is the only company so far who have managed to get working products out the door en masse.

Shut up and give me money: 115UAYWLPTcRQ2hrT7VNo84SSFE5nT5ozo
shapemaker
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April 30, 2013, 06:07:31 PM
 #908

anyone know what the estimated difficulty will be once all there orders ship out apparently tho if you didn't order big your gonna be sol?
Pretty much anyone without a significant hashrate investment near the end of the year (when BFL might be close to finished shipping the current orders) won't be making much BTC. Caveat emptor of course, but if DIY Avalon chip boards start becoming online around august, difficulty will skyrocket by then.

Are we really expecting the ship date to be by the end of 2013?  Considering they're already shipping, shouldn't all orders be fulfilled within the next couple of months?
They are shipping a handful of orders per day, at most, currently. I suppose they need to do a lot of retrofitting by hand just to get the Jalapenos out the door. It might change when they finally manage to get new PCBs for the larger models, which account for the higher-than-predicted power usage and heat dissipation...

Shut up and give me money: 115UAYWLPTcRQ2hrT7VNo84SSFE5nT5ozo
jordaninthesky
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April 30, 2013, 06:12:42 PM
 #909

anyone know what the estimated difficulty will be once all there orders ship out apparently tho if you didn't order big your gonna be sol?
Pretty much anyone without a significant hashrate investment near the end of the year (when BFL might be close to finished shipping the current orders) won't be making much BTC. Caveat emptor of course, but if DIY Avalon chip boards start becoming online around august, difficulty will skyrocket by then.

Are we really expecting the ship date to be by the end of 2013?  Considering they're already shipping, shouldn't all orders be fulfilled within the next couple of months?

Everything they have done indicates that they are more interested with promotion and media presence, not so much with fulfilling orders.  But it does seem that they cater, and will eventually do what's necessary in order to continue securing the obscure "pre-order".  Hopefully that upgrades to actually ordering, where you still have no idea if you'll receive the product in a year.  Seems like they want to secure their career before they actually become a manufacturer.
shapemaker
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April 30, 2013, 06:16:25 PM
 #910

Quote from: jordaninthesky
Seems like they want to line their pockets before they actually become a manufacturer.
Fixed for you Wink

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April 30, 2013, 06:56:25 PM
 #911

Seeing as they have shipped some of the Jalapenos to a few writers, we know they exist.

If they actually deliver them (and when), is the only question.
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April 30, 2013, 07:07:55 PM
 #912

If I invest some money into a BFL device and actually get it someday, the mining difficulty will have risen so much that it won't be worth running for anybody other than the very first few who get them, except of course for the 'cool' factor.  Whether they are legit or not, it seems that either way I would lose.

So you're saying shame on BFL if they make enough of these so everyone gets one and you don't get rich because the difficulty went up so fast? It sounds like you would only be happy if you got one and others didn't. BTC is a game of diminishing returns. If you aren't first or you don't go big, it's not going to pay off like you want it to.
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April 30, 2013, 09:36:44 PM
 #913

BFL and Josh in particular will get what's coming to them. You don't walk away with millions of dollars in preorders, treat customers like shit, and pretend it's all gravy. Someone somewhere will track Josh down and give him a good smack in the head, it's only a matter of time.

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April 30, 2013, 09:43:32 PM
 #914

BFL and Josh in particular will get what's coming to them. You don't walk away with millions of dollars in preorders, treat customers like shit, and pretend it's all gravy. Someone somewhere will track Josh down and give him a good smack in the head, it's only a matter of time.

I live less than 10 minutes from BFL Headquarters in Kansas City.  Need me to let him know?
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April 30, 2013, 09:46:29 PM
 #915

BFL and Josh in particular will get what's coming to them. You don't walk away with millions of dollars in preorders, treat customers like shit, and pretend it's all gravy. Someone somewhere will track Josh down and give him a good smack in the head, it's only a matter of time.

I live less than 10 minutes from BFL Headquarters in Kansas City.  Need me to let him know?

Know about what? Josh's not an idiot, he knows to watch his own back after all the BFL drama.

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noedaRDH
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April 30, 2013, 09:48:17 PM
 #916

Seeing as they have shipped some of the Jalapenos to a few writers, we know they exist.

If they actually deliver them (and when), is the only question.

I doubt BFL will deliver anything on a massive scale any time soon. The ones that were shipped to those writers are not the final product. It's just another way keep certain believers believing, while keep more money out of the pockets of other ASIC companies.

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Ask not what Bitcoin can do for you - ask what you can do for Bitcoin.
massnerder
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April 30, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
 #917

If I invest some money into a BFL device and actually get it someday, the mining difficulty will have risen so much that it won't be worth running for anybody other than the very first few who get them, except of course for the 'cool' factor.  Whether they are legit or not, it seems that either way I would lose.

So you're same shame on BFL if they make enough of these so everyone gets one and you don't get rich? It sounds like you would only be happy if you got one and others didn't. BTC is a game of diminishing returns. If you aren't first or you don't go big, it's not going to pay off like you want it to.

No, I'm saying that they should have had a product before accepting tons of pre-orders for something that did not exist.  I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to order one at this point.  

You are exactly right, and thanks for confirming my point BTW, the only way to remain competitive with these things coming out in mass is to 'go big'....  or be first, which has already passed most of us by.  So what happens to someone who throws tens of thousands of dollars into them just to see a few hundred GH/s on a network measured in PH/s?  What if that person has not broke even by the time BTC reaches the 21 million mark and nobody can mine anymore?  They lose, that's what.  

Did I say 'boo hoo I can't get rich off this'? No, I don't believe that I did.  All I said was that I don't see it being able to pay off at all, making it not worth buying, again with the exception of the 'cool factor'.  If I am wrong, please explain why instead of just trying to insinuate about what a greedy bastard I must be.

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April 30, 2013, 10:17:00 PM
 #918

BFL and Josh in particular will get what's coming to them. You don't walk away with millions of dollars in preorders, treat customers like shit, and pretend it's all gravy. Someone somewhere will track Josh down and give him a good smack in the head, it's only a matter of time.

I live less than 10 minutes from BFL Headquarters in Kansas City.  Need me to let him know?

Know about what? Josh's not an idiot, he knows to watch his own back after all the BFL drama.

Clearly, I forgot to write the sarcasm there.  Let him know wasn't meant to imply as to me personally telling him, but more of a joke like a rock through the window.
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May 01, 2013, 12:50:38 AM
 #919

I feel if AMD wanted to they could whip together a miner ASIC in a month that would blow everyone else away Wink

They would probably be able to do it that fast, yeah. Compared to their CPUs, the ASIC are far less complex...

I'd be far more worried about Intel doing that than AMD though Wink

I think AMD is still the "underdog" more likely to embrace something non-mainstream like Bitcoin

We should start a write in campaign... Smiley
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May 01, 2013, 01:25:05 AM
 #920

First post noob and to prove how dum I am I put down $ for 2 BFL 5 GH/s Bitcoin Miners a month ago. Now I'm figuring that by the time I get them I'll probably only be able to make one or 2 Bitcoins a month because of all of the other people that'll be running the ASIC miners. Probably should have built a GPU miner instead, make some Bitcoins now then switch to Litecoin or something you can still mine with a GPU. I expect the otehr coins to ramp up as the ASCIs come on line and make the difficulty go up.
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