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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 363458 times)
volavak
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September 30, 2012, 10:48:58 AM
 #1

I myself was VERY excited about those BFL SC things (http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/), but it sounded too good to be true. I was one step before pre-ordering the Mini Rig 'SC' for just $30k, which could deliver 1TH/s (update -> 1.5 TH/s according to the website now!). You know what? Bullshit.

Is butterfly labs mining with those ASICs at the moment? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110290.0)
Hell no! Do you see some huge raise in hashing power? No.
Would it be beneficial to mine on their own devices? Hell yes! More than just selling them.

Quote from: Desolator link=topic=110290.msg1200110#msg1200110
If circumstantial evidence isn't enough, try simple business logic.  The price is set at $149 for a 3500MH/s chip. At current prices, they would make $149 after about 10.8 days of mining!  So why doesn't Butterfly Labs just run them for 10.8 days instead of selling them?  Then they'd have $149 and the chips lol.  I mean seriously, read those last 2 sentences again, people.  You think they're not mining with them?  I can't be the only one that realizes this.  From a business perspective, if you had an investment that would pay off 200% in a month and you sell it off instead, you're a crazy person.

You know the true reason why they are not mining with them? They can't. They don't have them.

But they have already proven legit! They fullfiled the orders and delivered FPGAs!
Sure they have. Gained your trust. And will take them back. And you will pay even more. You will loose your working FPGAs and also money. Huge money.

Quote
Trade in terms: Qualifying trade in for upgrades can be either an older generation Mini Rig or 25 older generation Singles. Once your new rig is ready for delivery (currently scheduled for November), you'll be notified to ship your trade in units to us. Upon receipt we'll release your new Mini Rig SC for shipment to you.

They still could have runned before..
They could, but why would they? Establish trust. Then run away.
They could have stolen $1M.

Now they have $30M and the hardware. Many of you fell for it.

Quote from: squall1066 link=topic=89685.msg987282#msg987282
Total Orders (By last seen)        7678
   
Orders Tracked         227
Trade-In Orders         66
   
Units Sold   
   
Jalapeno SC            225
Single SC               231
Mini Rig SC               21
   
Extended TH   
   
Jalepeno SC       0.7875
Single SC             9.24
Mini Rig SC               21
   
Grand Total of   31.0275

I still trust them.
Really? What about that the CEO is a fraduster, sentenced to 3 years in prison and is currently released and violating the terms?

Quote from: elux link=topic=110805.msg1206567#msg1206567
September 15, 2010

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. SONNY VLEISIDES

...
The defendant is hereby placed on supervised release, effective immediately, for a term of three years under the following terms and conditions:
...
The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise, in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing activities, investment programs or any other business involving the solicitation of funds or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to engagement in such employment.

As always, I feel terribly sorry for all you guys.
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varunpriolkar97
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September 30, 2012, 10:55:18 AM
 #2

Thanks for the heads up.. Its because of people like you, the world is a better place  Grin
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September 30, 2012, 11:00:14 AM
 #3

heal the world

volavak
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September 30, 2012, 11:08:37 AM
 #4

Thanks for the heads up.. Its because of people like you, the world is a better place  Grin

You're welcome.

I thought about it more:

Do you know why they encourage paying with bitcoins?

Quote
Please be aware that your order date is set at the time payment is received, so we recommend Bit-Pay due to it's faster processing time as compared to bank wire transfer. When ordering via Bankwire Transfer, our sales agent will respond with the appropriate payment instructions so that you may make payment and complete your order.

Because BTC is much more easier to run away with than with cash. I wonder how many people actually paid by wire. Zero?

Do you know how many serious companies accept BTC?

Even if the CEO had legit intentions...
... he is doing illegal business! Remember he is under supervised release and even if HE won't run with your money, he could be arrested and sentenced. Do you know what will happen with your BTC then? Do you know that governments usually give a fuck about BTC because it is NOT A CURRENCY?
codro
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September 30, 2012, 12:15:17 PM
 #5

What doesn't feel right to me about BFL is their customer service.

I had placed an order for two Single SCs and prior to sending the wire transfer I asked them whether there would be any guarantee that they will ship the units to me before the end of the year, otherwise I'd request my money back. The answer I received was pretty elusive, that they would start shipping, but they can't guarantee whether I'd be getting mine or not in the first batch(es).

I think any company that runs its business solidly should know the answer to that question. It's simple math: We have X preorders and we're producing Y units in our first batch. We do, or do not, have your order covered.

Needless to say, I backed out of my order with them. Btcfpga's ASIC seems to look a lot better now.

That said, I don't believe they are a scam, I believe they will eventually ship their asics, just not to everyone, and a lot of people will be left behind and probably never recover their investment.
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September 30, 2012, 12:34:39 PM
 #6

There is nothing new here.  These are all old allegations, many of which are not quite correct.  I wonder what the OP motive is?!

They will ship, it will be late, but they will ship.  Then there will be an outcry from all those who didnt jump in at the start thats its so unfair.

You pays your money you takes your chance!

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b!z
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September 30, 2012, 01:10:10 PM
 #7

And you kids will be the ones crying after everyone else is mining 1TH/s.
cedivad
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September 30, 2012, 01:21:49 PM
 #8

And you kids will be the ones crying after everyone else is mining 1TH/s.
+1

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
AlexWhite
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September 30, 2012, 02:54:37 PM
 #9

volavak : you should start a bet at http://betsofbitco.in/ , you could make some coin if you are right.

BitcoinINV
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September 30, 2012, 03:02:21 PM
 #10

And you kids will be the ones crying after everyone else is mining 1TH/s.

Or your crying over lost bitcoins? Im just saying there is two sides to that lol. I have a pre-order so I'm hope your right lol.

Jutarul
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September 30, 2012, 03:09:50 PM
 #11

And you kids will be the ones crying after everyone else is mining 1TH/s.
If everyone else is mining at 1TH/s we're back to no profit for the average miner. You only make a profit if you are "lucky" enough to get an EARLY ASIC or you have access to free power.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
Monkey1
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September 30, 2012, 03:34:00 PM
 #12

ASIC are not power hungry like GPU's which is part of the appeal!

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September 30, 2012, 03:55:12 PM
 #13

ASIC are not power hungry like GPU's which is part of the appeal!
Then people will buy MORE asics than they did with gpu. So the 1th/s will mine even less  Cheesy
jwzguy
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September 30, 2012, 04:18:03 PM
 #14

Would it be beneficial to mine on their own devices? Hell yes! More than just selling them.
No. It wouldn't. Thanks for discrediting yourself very early on.

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pyrkne
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September 30, 2012, 04:42:34 PM
 #15

More than just selling them.

ITT noobs think that BFL wants bitcoin more than a reputation as an ASIC manufacturer.
firefop
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September 30, 2012, 05:54:24 PM
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If everyone else is mining at 1TH/s we're back to no profit for the average miner. You only make a profit if you are "lucky" enough to get an EARLY ASIC or you have access to free power.

Not true - I actually did the math on this (based on 10000 pre-orders) if every single one of those is a 1th/s sc rig, the network difficulty will increase by a factor of 40.

in that cast - you're sc rig would make you just over 8 btc per day. at currect rates thats over $100. That's $3000. That's 10% a month. 120% per year. 10 month ROI.

A stellar investment if you can afford it.

~

as for me, I've already invested in bfl singles, and have sc upgrades ordered for 1 of them (It's in the 2500 range) so I'm hoping to catch a bit of that wave, but if I don't no big deal. I'm also planning on getting a couple of pre-orders in for bASICs - since (while the prev hardware was lackluster) I love the level of customer service given...

You should all do what any smart investor would do - act to mitigate your risk own risk.

There's risk in pre-ordering a product that doesn't currently exist --- there's risk in not - because you'll have dead time where you aren't earning. Spread it around get orders in with competitors.



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September 30, 2012, 06:03:29 PM
 #17

I have this feeling that all the idiots who scream that BFL is a scam will just disappear and make new accounts later this year. And there will be a few nuts that believe that hundreds of forum users are being paid by BFL to act like they got working ASIC's.

Positive rep with: pekv2, AzN1337c0d3r, Vince Torres, underworld07, Chimsley, omegaaf, Bogart, Gleason, SuperTramp, John K. and guitarplinker
Jutarul
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September 30, 2012, 06:07:19 PM
 #18

in that cast - you're sc rig would make you just over 8 btc per day. at currect rates thats over $100. That's $3000. That's 10% a month. 120% per year. 10 month ROI.
double that ROI figure. You're not gonna get your ASIC before the reward drop. And doing a ROI on mining equipment for >4 months is quite risky. You don't know how competitive mining becomes in 6 months.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
bitcool
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Live and enjoy experiments


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September 30, 2012, 06:18:20 PM
 #19


We've seen the worst effect of bankerster's greed brought to the world -- trust in financial institutions was lost. 

We are seeing the worst effect Pirate brought upon BTC community ... trust in bitcoin businesses is being destroyed.
cedivad
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September 30, 2012, 06:20:22 PM
 #20

I have this feeling that all the idiots who scream that BFL is a scam will just disappear and make new accounts later this year. And there will be a few nuts that believe that hundreds of forum users are being paid by BFL to act like they got working ASIC's.
I will stay.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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