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Author Topic: Nefario  (Read 198240 times)
SebastianJu
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October 28, 2012, 03:51:08 PM
 #1321

So no, it doesnt make much sense to me to be pleased running with that amount of money. If he would be some schoolkid, running his first ponzi ok, but not a familyman with responsibility for wife and kids.

The guy is notorious for acting without any thinking.

It seems so. But i think that part of the reason he act like he do is that he has a family and needs to keep harm from them. So thats probably because he wants to keep his money together and dont want to lose money. But thats only a guess of course.

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conspirosphere.tk
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October 28, 2012, 04:02:45 PM
 #1322

because he wants to keep his money together and dont want to lose money. But thats only a guess of course.

I don't get why keeping hostage users' assets is related to "his" money. Supposing that he's going to ask for a ransom?
SebastianJu
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October 28, 2012, 04:09:11 PM
 #1323

because he wants to keep his money together and dont want to lose money. But thats only a guess of course.

I don't get why keeping hostage users' assets is related to "his" money. Supposing that he's going to ask for a ransom?

Because when he now releases all the remaining usermoney he has access to and the asset info he has no pressure object anymore to get the double payment back. Because it was his error he would have to pay form his money. But he dont want this. So he stops everything to take hostage what he has to get this money back so that he dont have to pay it from his own money later.

Of course thats somewhat dangerous because he holds things that arent his. He should realize that the bigger threat to him isnt losing money but the government involved. On the other hand... the person that involves government will make it more difficult for all parties.

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deeplink
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October 28, 2012, 05:00:00 PM
 #1324

So Nefario is now officially the only one held responsible and all other GLBSE partners are now officially of the hook?
SebastianJu
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October 28, 2012, 05:13:36 PM
 #1325

So Nefario is now officially the only one held responsible and all other GLBSE partners are now officially of the hook?

Whats the responsibility of the other partners? I mean the one that wanted to close down glbse should know what this mean to the users, their money and so on. But the ones that didnt want to close glbse doesnt have anything wrong i think.

On the other hand... what should the other shareholders do? Nefario it seems took all the strings to himself. And no other shareholder can intervene now. I mean when they cant do anything why should they be guilty for what nefario is doing? That would sound unfair to me.

As far as i read glbse isnt a company where shareholders have to take the risk of the company but instead only get earnings from that. There are different kinds of companies. Ones where the shareholders gets earnings but still have the risk to pay when the company makes errors and companies where the shareholders are only getting earnings and cant make responsible for companies errors. But with glbse its even worse because it seems to be a non-official company in some kind. Its hard to say how it looks legally i think.

Its a shame when nefario really stopped communicating with customers, issuers and even shareholders.

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jojo69
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October 28, 2012, 05:30:00 PM
 #1326

So Nefario is now officially the only one held responsible and all other GLBSE partners are now officially of the hook?

Reading the IRC log I think it is fair to lay this squarely at Nefario's feet, he was full of anarchist bluster till agent smith knocked, then folded up in a most embarrassing, and all too familiar, manner.

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
deeplink
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October 28, 2012, 05:31:39 PM
 #1327

So Nefario is now officially the only one held responsible and all other GLBSE partners are now officially of the hook?

Whats the responsibility of the other partners? I mean the one that wanted to close down glbse should know what this mean to the users, their money and so on. But the ones that didnt want to close glbse doesnt have anything wrong i think.

On the other hand... what should the other shareholders do? Nefario it seems took all the strings to himself. And no other shareholder can intervene now. I mean when they cant do anything why should they be guilty for what nefario is doing? That would sound unfair to me.

As far as i read glbse isnt a company where shareholders have to take the risk of the company but instead only get earnings from that. There are different kinds of companies. Ones where the shareholders gets earnings but still have the risk to pay when the company makes errors and companies where the shareholders are only getting earnings and cant make responsible for companies errors. But with glbse its even worse because it seems to be a non-official company in some kind. Its hard to say how it looks legally i think.

Its a shame when nefario really stopped communicating with customers, issuers and even shareholders.

GLBSE is responsible for the outstanding claims, not Nefario. GLBSE is a general partnership without limited liability. So all partners have equal responsibility for the outstanding debt. That may not be fair, but it is the consequence of going into business with others in a general partnership.

For example, suppose I go into business with my brother and we don't create a company with limited liability. You buy a service from us and after you have paid, we just disappear and don't communicate with you anymore. Would it now matter to you who is holding your money hostage? No, you could claim it from me or from my brother.

Reading the IRC log I think it is fair to lay this squarely at Nefario's feet, he was full of anarchist bluster till agent smith knocked, then folded up in a most embarrassing, and all too familiar, manner.

It may not be fair, but it is the consequence of going into business with others in a general partnership. If the partners think it is not fair, they can arrange a fairer split between themselves, but that is not their customers concern. In a partnership, if you win you get profit, but if you loose you don't get bailed out or can point to someone else.
malevolent
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October 28, 2012, 05:34:11 PM
 #1328

What's going on with him? Did he get back the money he sent to people twice?

conspirosphere.tk
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October 28, 2012, 05:36:29 PM
 #1329

So if you get brother A, but brother B is gone with the money, what do you do?
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October 28, 2012, 05:37:53 PM
 #1330

So if you get brother A, but brother B is gone with the money, what do you do?

Brother A has to work or take out a loan to return the money. In addition he can sue brother B, but that is none of your concern.
Kluge
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October 28, 2012, 05:39:51 PM
 #1331

Wait what? There are people who haven't being paid?

I got my coins...
Sub-accounts for Issuers haven't been paid. When someone creates a security on GLBSE, an account specifically for that security is created. So, Giga would have his normal gigavps account, but also a sub-account called GIGAMINING which has its own wallet, which is probably where he'd keep the bulk of his coins on GLBSE so he can quickly pay dividends.
conspirosphere.tk
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October 28, 2012, 05:41:24 PM
 #1332

So if you get brother A, but brother B is gone with the money, what do you do?

Brother A has to work or take out a loan to return the money. In addition he can sue brother B, but that is none of your concern.

Problem is that brother B is the only one with your receipt. Without his cooperation you can't prove nada.
deeplink
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October 28, 2012, 05:43:47 PM
 #1333

So if you get brother A, but brother B is gone with the money, what do you do?

Brother A has to work or take out a loan to return the money. In addition he can sue brother B, but that is none of your concern.

Problem is that brother B is the only one with your receipt. Without his cooperation you can't prove nada.

Then you're fucked, but I would expect brother A to actively help you in any way possible to get your money from brother B.
SebastianJu
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October 28, 2012, 05:47:01 PM
 #1334

malevolent... no he didnt get all double payment back. But most it seems.

GLBSE is responsible for the outstanding claims, not Nefario. GLBSE is a general partnership without limited liability. So all partners have equal responsibility for the outstanding debt. That may not be fair, but it is the consequence of going into business with others in a general partnership.

For example, suppose I go into business with my brother and we don't create a company with limited liability. You buy a service from us and after you have paid, we just disappear and don't communicate with you anymore. Would it now matter to you who is holding your money hostage? No, you could claim it from me or from my brother.

When its a general partnership without limited liability then youre right, the shareholders are liable. Thats by the way a beloved strategy of scammers. Selling shares for a company by claiming how much the shareholders will gain in dividends but in fact the shareholders are liable when taking part. Later the company is crashing and the shareholders are the one that are responsible to pay back to the customers of the company. Only one person wins.
Its sad when glbse-shareholders really are in such a business relation but they should have inform themselfes before taking part. So yes, they are part of glbse and liable that the customers get their money and asset infos.
Your example with the brother is correct when he is part of the business withou limited liability.

Nefario... COMMUNICATE! Nothing good comes out of being silence. It can only become worse.

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galambo
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October 28, 2012, 06:17:54 PM
 #1335

People aren't going to try to sue nefario.  What they're far more likely to do if he continues to piss them off with his "fuck you" attitude is draw his activities to the attention of the very authorities he was hoping to avoid getting scrutiny from. 

Good Luck to anyone that tries to push that through. It will be a difficult path for anyone that tries to grab the authorities attention for someone who has zero-to-negative assets to forfeit.

I think it will be difficult to get the authorities attention for a pirate figure; the bulk of his assets are in internet money.
SebastianJu
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October 28, 2012, 06:29:52 PM
 #1336

People aren't going to try to sue nefario.  What they're far more likely to do if he continues to piss them off with his "fuck you" attitude is draw his activities to the attention of the very authorities he was hoping to avoid getting scrutiny from. 

Good Luck to anyone that tries to push that through. It will be a difficult path for anyone that tries to grab the authorities attention for someone who has zero-to-negative assets to forfeit.

I think it will be difficult to get the authorities attention for a pirate figure; the bulk of his assets are in internet money.

The SEC already is after pirate. Its not that they dont care. They are searching more infos, victims and so on to create a strong case. You can provide info here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120119.new;topicseen#new

And regarding nefario... you can be sure that at some point someone is going to government. And this would make it worse for all of us but mostly for nefario. So when he keeps hiding at his position his fear to have to pay his errors out of his own pocket wouldnt be the smallest problem for him.

Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
senor_coconut
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October 28, 2012, 08:44:34 PM
 #1337

People aren't going to try to sue nefario.  What they're far more likely to do if he continues to piss them off with his "fuck you" attitude is draw his activities to the attention of the very authorities he was hoping to avoid getting scrutiny from. 

Good Luck to anyone that tries to push that through. It will be a difficult path for anyone that tries to grab the authorities attention for someone who has zero-to-negative assets to forfeit.

I think it will be difficult to get the authorities attention for a pirate figure; the bulk of his assets are in internet money.

The SEC already is after pirate. Its not that they dont care. They are searching more infos, victims and so on to create a strong case. You can provide info here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120119.new;topicseen#new

And regarding nefario... you can be sure that at some point someone is going to government. And this would make it worse for all of us but mostly for nefario. So when he keeps hiding at his position his fear to have to pay his errors out of his own pocket wouldnt be the smallest problem for him.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117655.msg1302895#msg1302895
TiuraZ
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October 28, 2012, 10:27:36 PM
 #1338

I have been wondering one thing in this whole mess: was it really so, that only Nefario had/has access to all this data, databases, wallets and so on? What if something would have happened to him while GLBSE was still operational? That sounds very unprofessional and I wonder why other shareholders let it go like that.
SebastianJu
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October 28, 2012, 11:26:52 PM
 #1339

I have been wondering one thing in this whole mess: was it really so, that only Nefario had/has access to all this data, databases, wallets and so on? What if something would have happened to him while GLBSE was still operational? That sounds very unprofessional and I wonder why other shareholders let it go like that.

There was a precaution about this. Something like that 4 other shareholders together could get the database keys or so. But i dont think that will work now anymore because nefario most probably will have taken out this possibility.

But if its possible and nefario doesnt even speak with his glbse-shareholders anymore then i think there should be a motion to try and use this thing to get access to the database and copy it. Just in case nefario wont give out the database out of some reason.

Could some shareholders please say something about this? Does nefario still speak with you guys or did you lose trust in him in the meanwhile.

In my opinion the asset info is the most valuable thing at glbse for most users so the database would be top priority i think. Plus the amounts of BTC hold at glbse would be in database too. Though the access to the wallet is the next question.

So can shareholders say a word if anything moves here?

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October 29, 2012, 12:35:53 AM
 #1340

and we don't create a company with limited liability.

This was discussed on another thread.

I had asked basically if investors were liable for debts with an unincorporated entity.

There would probably need to be a partnership agreement formalizing the partnership, rights, duties, responsibilities, etc.

Now with GLBSE whether such an agreement exists or not, who knows.  The partners may not necessarily even know each other's identities.

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