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Author Topic: GLBSE Payment Claims (Announce your payment here)  (Read 43664 times)
repentance
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October 19, 2012, 08:04:58 PM
 #181


If such "accident" or anything happens to the database no one would believe it. Backups are common sense especially for websites handling money.
If this happens it would be clear why. And i fear the anger of people could be enough for him to fear for his life. I mean even now there is so much anger. How will it be when its clear he killed the database? I will not imagine.

It doesn't matter whether people believe it.  Take a look at the Bitcoinica clusterfuck.  All the anger in the world still hasn't gotten people their funds back and the Intersango guys aren't exactly in hiding.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 19, 2012, 08:07:20 PM
 #182

I like many others, still haven't got their bitcoins returned, not even an email, yet he's already managed to send out double payments to some, others have had unusual amounts sent back and a few confirmed an accurate number was returned.
*shakes head*
Not looking good.

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October 19, 2012, 08:56:59 PM
 #183

Is there a list of double pay transactions somewhere?

I had most of my coins invested in shares and received a <1 BTC transaction that was my recent dividends from before the shutdown.

Even though it is a small amount I would like to return this if it was double payed, but I really have no clue what my balance was at shutdown.

If you had gotten a double payment then you would have gotten 2 transactions with the exact same amount. You sound like you got only one payment so you arent one of them.
stochastic
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October 19, 2012, 09:05:33 PM
 #184

Is there a list of double pay transactions somewhere?

I had most of my coins invested in shares and received a <1 BTC transaction that was my recent dividends from before the shutdown.

Even though it is a small amount I would like to return this if it was double payed, but I really have no clue what my balance was at shutdown.

If you had gotten a double payment then you would have gotten 2 transactions with the exact same amount. You sound like you got only one payment so you arent one of them.

Not exactly true, in the first round of payments GLBSE sent multiple amounts to the same user.  It does not come as one single amount.  I got two payments from GLBSE for the same amount but that was because they divided my claim into two payments.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
Namworld
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October 19, 2012, 11:02:41 PM
 #185

Welcome to bitcoin.

Sent to address I control = mine. Period.

Need chargebacks, pay with creditcards.

If an agreement for my holding someone elses coin is in place, or I am to provide some value for an investment, etc - and failed to come through, sure I should be ostracized by the community.

But to say that keeping coins that magically appeared one night on my address with absolutely no agreement in place regarding the transaction, are not mine, is laughable.

Ohh, come on people. There is nothing to discuss here about returning the funds or not.

If people were appealing to others to return on strong morals and good character, I would agree there would be nothing to discuss.

Unfortunately, people are making loaded statements and claiming that failure to return is "criminal" "scamming" "theft" etc

I have made the case that it is not.

While taking action to return the funds would be laudable. Taking no action at all should not be considered criminal, scamming, or theft

You haven't brought any argument so far other that if someone hands you more cash than intended, you consider it perfectly okay to just keep it and not do anything about it because there was no prior agreement that you would return said fund backs. No contract to show, no way to force a chargeback, you keep it. Perfectly knowing there's too much and the funds are needed to pay others still awaiting there payment.

If people were appealing to others to return on strong morals and good character, I would agree there would be nothing to discuss.

Well that's exactly what people here seems to be asking for. To return it on good faith because you know someone's else account needs those funds to be paid out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, for anyone reading this who has gotten a double payment, the return address is 1BgPRMk4uaJrohM1T9Cn4Hd9pHaEL6FH5j

It would be better to return the coins without me having to chase you for them.

About a month ago, the cashier at a restaurant I used to frequent regularly gave me $5 USD too much in change. I immediately bought the mistake to her attention, returning the fin because I like the establishment. Three days later, a cashier at KFC returned to me change which included an extra $10 USD. I nonchalantly pocketed the sawbuck and left the premises. Fuck them nefarious bastards who kill chickens, use some kind of secret herb and spices, have me pre-order, then make me wait in line for my meal.

I have no fear of some KFC guy chasing me down to have me return ten bucks. In fact, if it were a hundred dollar mistake, I still wouldn't have a concern. And they're a global entity. I've even returned to the same franchise--twice--taunting them to ask me to return the money, but they have yet to take the bait. I'm willing to bet that they know, that I know, that they know something's afoot, but can put a chicken finger on it.

Bottomline, Nefario, kindly ask for the overpayments to be returned, thanking all those who comply. The funds you don't get returned, eat it, continuing to refund those waiting, otherwise the chaser may become the chasee.

~Bruno K~
So depending on if you like the establishment, you'll keep extra change handed? The establishment can take it no problem, but that's really dishonest, especially for the employee who has nothing to do with the quality of the establishment. He just happen to work there and a non-balancing cash register will get him troubles. Especially when your argument is that you do that to them because they make "kill chicken & make you wait in line". It's a fast food. What did you expect? I don't see much value in your statement. You go somewhere on your own free will in a fast food and then avenge yourself for not liking the place because it's managed like you'd expect a fast food to be? Unless the employees were real jerks but you forgot to mention it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A thief asking to return his stolen money is like asking for "fucking respect".

If you deserve it, you will get it.

That's the thing, you can believe as much as you want that he's incompetent and be angry all you want about GLBSE's closure, in the end, he hasn't stolen those funds. He's trying to distribute them and accidentally rerun the script for the 90% payment. Those funds are needed to pay those who haven't been paid yet. Keeping the funds to do yourself your own justice for GLBSE closing down and making you wait? It's the funds of other depositors you'd be keeping. It's not harming Nefario at all, I don't think his reputation could sink lower around here. Only thing keeping the funds can achieve is depriving other depositors from getting their balance paid out.


stochastic
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October 19, 2012, 11:19:53 PM
 #186


You haven't brought any argument so far other that if someone hands you more cash than intended, you consider it perfectly okay to just keep it and not do anything about it because there was no prior agreement that you would return said fund backs. No contract to show, no way to force a chargeback, you keep it. Perfectly knowing there's too much and the funds are needed to pay others still awaiting there payment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktvE2vfxSQ&t=1m25s


Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
Namworld
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October 20, 2012, 12:05:49 AM
 #187


You haven't brought any argument so far other that if someone hands you more cash than intended, you consider it perfectly okay to just keep it and not do anything about it because there was no prior agreement that you would return said fund backs. No contract to show, no way to force a chargeback, you keep it. Perfectly knowing there's too much and the funds are needed to pay others still awaiting there payment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktvE2vfxSQ&t=1m25s



Nice quote right there eh
Namworld
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October 20, 2012, 12:54:55 AM
 #188

But that's the problem, it's GLBSE's users fund. He couldn't give that money to you because it never was his to start with. He was not the owner of those funds.

Not quite.
I do however think it is important to establish the fact that doing so is not an indicator of criminality.
  poor morals and character sure, but criminal, no way.

If you walk down the strip handing out all your money while drunk, later claiming the recipients stole from you makes no sense.
Your buddies might say, "man, how fucked up were you all drunk and playing santa, here is that fin back"...
  but you shouldn't go to the cops and try to charge the homeless dude you also paid, with theft, for not giving it back.

It's more akin to handing a pack of bills to the wrong recipient or someone making you a payment and accidentally having an extra bill in it. He wasn't drunk and willingly giving it away and coming back saying "wait, I changed my mind, I was drunk, bad decision." Because in that example you gave, indeed you couldn't possibly expect to demand the money back as it was given to you willingly. But it's not what happened here, not counting it's not his funds on top of it.

Really, it doesn't seem like something that would impact Nefario at all as his reputation is already ruined. It would however hurt other GLBSE users for which no money will be left to proceed with paying out the balance.
Indemnified
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October 20, 2012, 12:56:45 AM
 #189

People should "hold" BTC that is not theirs and they know it is not theirs? People have got the scammers tag before for doing just that... I do not see how this is "safer". You are asking them to accept a liability cuz Nefario is fail...

If anyone received coin that is not theirs they should return it ASAP! It is the correct thing to do.

I'm shocked at what Theymos is advocating here...

Yes Nefario is clearly incompetent but holding on to something that is not theirs is just wrong.

The money isn't Nefario's, either. I trust random recipients of the money more than I trust Nefario.

It does not matter who you trust. You are asking people to keep BTC that is not theirs.

If anything the money should go to the paper wallet address untill things get sorted out.

No, because Nefario can go to the police now esp if he has AML docs on these people. When the police knock on the door and say where are the funds saying Theymos said to keep them is not going to fly. Saying they sent then to someone else will not fly.

They must give back the coins ASAP anything else is criminal and scamming. Shame on Theymos for suggesting such immoral actions.

I don't trust Nefario either but two wrongs do not make a right.

 

I have no intention of using funds that were mistakenly sent to me for my personal benefit (as can be attested to by several members of this forum with whom I have worked out errors). At the same time, I have no intention of returning said funds to an incompetent non-communicator until a plan for remediation of this whole g0d-awful situation is outlined.  So back way way off on your attempted moralizing until perhaps you have contributed to a planned solution. The funds that I received in error are a very tiny fraction of my hard eaned non scam assets sitting out of my reach with the incompetent.
Namworld
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October 20, 2012, 01:04:47 AM
 #190

I have no intention of using funds that were mistakenly sent to me for my personal benefit (as can be attested to by several members of this forum with whom I have worked out errors). At the same time, I have no intention of returning said funds to an incompetent non-communicator until a plan for remediation of this whole g0d-awful situation is outlined.  So back way way off on your attempted moralizing until perhaps you have contributed to a planned solution. The funds that I received in error are a very tiny fraction of my hard eaned non scam assets sitting out of my reach with the incompetent.

A plan for remediation? He's currently processing the payment of balances and should afterward work on releasing assets data to issuers. The process is currently ongoing albeit slow. The same address used to receive your balance will be put together with everyone's info and assets balance and be sent to issuers. You'll be able to sign message with your BTC address to issuers which is a safe solution for proving ownership compared to the criticized claim codes used previously.  There's not really any solution to further propose.

I don't see how keeping the funds would help in anything, other than delaying the repayment of the other depositors.
Indemnified
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October 20, 2012, 01:31:24 AM
 #191

I have no intention of using funds that were mistakenly sent to me for my personal benefit (as can be attested to by several members of this forum with whom I have worked out errors). At the same time, I have no intention of returning said funds to an incompetent non-communicator until a plan for remediation of this whole g0d-awful situation is outlined.  So back way way off on your attempted moralizing until perhaps you have contributed to a planned solution. The funds that I received in error are a very tiny fraction of my hard eaned non scam assets sitting out of my reach with the incompetent.
javascript:void(0);

A plan for remediation? He's currently processing the payment of balances and should afterward work on releasing assets data to issuers. The process is currently ongoing albeit slow. The same address used to receive your balance will be put together with everyone's info and assets balance and be sent to issuers. You'll be able to sign message with your BTC address to issuers which is a safe solution for proving ownership compared to the criticized claim codes used previously.  There's not really any solution to further propose.

I don't see how keeping the funds would help in anything, other than delaying the repayment of the other depositors.

That seems to be your plan for remediation. I have never seen any plan from Nefario, now a proven incompetent on several levels who needs outside supervision and probably escrow even if he does come up with a workable plan for the escalating mess he has caused.

"should afterwords work on releasing data"  Why, yes, he certainly should. How hopelessly romantic of you to think he "will" do competently what he " should "do" (should have done).




repentance
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October 20, 2012, 01:35:45 AM
 #192


A plan for remediation? He's currently processing the payment of balances and should afterward work on releasing assets data to issuers. The process is currently ongoing albeit slow. The same address used to receive your balance will be put together with everyone's info and assets balance and be sent to issuers. You'll be able to sign message with your BTC address to issuers which is a safe solution for proving ownership compared to the criticized claim codes used previously.  There's not really any solution to further propose.

I don't see how keeping the funds would help in anything, other than delaying the repayment of the other depositors.

Why are you speaking for Nefario?  He really needs to be speaking for himself here.  Nobody is going to trust any third-party's comments regarding what is going on. 

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
Namworld
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October 20, 2012, 02:23:35 AM
 #193

As for doing it competently, I cannot say. But the wording on GLBSE.com was pretty clear that asset balances along with email + BTC address would be relayed to issuers.

It is incredibly slow but so far he's been processing accounts. I don't have any reason to believe he would not then start processing sending data to issuers like he's supposed to.
stochastic
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October 20, 2012, 03:38:34 AM
 #194

As for doing it competently, I cannot say. But the wording on GLBSE.com was pretty clear that asset balances along with email + BTC address would be relayed to issuers.

It is incredibly slow but so far he's been processing accounts. I don't have any reason to believe he would not then start processing sending data to issuers like he's supposed to.

Lets look at the broken promises:

Nefario shut down GLBSE without warning.
Nefario erroneously paid people almost twice as much as their claim.
The partners of BitcoinGlobal will take no responsibility for poor management of user accounts.

Then why do you believe Nefario will pay back the total bitcoin claim amounts and give them their asset information?

Do you think Nefario will actually cover the loss of bitcoins for those that will not return the funds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A


Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
repentance
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October 20, 2012, 03:41:42 AM
 #195


Do you think Nefario will actually cover the loss of bitcoins for those that will not return the funds?


The partners have indicated that BG doesn't have sufficient reserves to cover the whole amount which was double paid, and I think that we can safely assume that Nefario isn't going to cover anything out of his own pocket.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
stochastic
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October 20, 2012, 03:53:16 AM
 #196


Do you think Nefario will actually cover the loss of bitcoins for those that will not return the funds?


The partners have indicated that BG doesn't have sufficient reserves to cover the whole amount which was double paid, and I think that we can safely assume that Nefario isn't going to cover anything out of his own pocket.

They can go get a credit card, buy some bitcoins, and send them to the GLBSE users.  What kind of Mickey Mouse game is this that 7-8 people can't come up with $12,000?


Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
Namworld
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October 20, 2012, 04:57:20 AM
 #197

As for doing it competently, I cannot say. But the wording on GLBSE.com was pretty clear that asset balances along with email + BTC address would be relayed to issuers.

It is incredibly slow but so far he's been processing accounts. I don't have any reason to believe he would not then start processing sending data to issuers like he's supposed to.

Lets look at the broken promises:

Nefario shut down GLBSE without warning.
Nefario erroneously paid people almost twice as much as their claim.
The partners of BitcoinGlobal will take no responsibility for poor management of user accounts.

Then why do you believe Nefario will pay back the total bitcoin claim amounts and give them their asset information?

Do you think Nefario will actually cover the loss of bitcoins for those that will not return the funds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A



So people should not send back bitcoins from the double payments because there's no reason to believe he'll pay back because he can't cover the loss of the double payment? Is that serious? He has been paying out balances so far, why wouldn't he pursue that? If he wanted to steal those funds he wouldn't have returned any balance at all.

As for screwing BitcoinGlobal shareholders and closing GLBSE without warning, yes, I completely agree it's a very bad move. It doesn't mean he's gone and won't do anything. For once a website suddenly closing isn't running away with users funds. We have every reason to be dissatisfied, but I see no reason to think he will not attempt to process all balances & assets as best as he can. For what his best is worth...

The logs of his meeting with BitcoinGlobal shareholders screamed of a court order or chickening out in the face of possible legal issues. It doesn't seems he's closing GLBSE for the heck of it. He claims not having a choice.
stochastic
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October 20, 2012, 05:08:06 AM
 #198


So people should not send back bitcoins from the double payments because there's no reason to believe he'll pay back because he can't cover the loss of the double payment? Is that serious? He has been paying out balances so far, why wouldn't he pursue that? If he wanted to steal those funds he wouldn't have returned any balance at all.

As for screwing BitcoinGlobal shareholders and closing GLBSE without warning... yes, I completely agree it's a very bad move. It doesn't mean he's gone and won't do anything. For once a website suddenly closing isn't running away with users funds. We have every reason to be dissatisfied, but I see no reason to think he will not attempt to process all balances as best as he can. For what his best worth...

The logs of his meeting with BitcoinGlobal shareholders screamed of a court order or chickening out in the face of possible legal issues. It doesn't seems he's closing GLBSE for the heck of it. He claims not having a choice.

People that received double payments have already made up their minds if they will pay back or not.  GLBSE will not receive 100% of those double payments back and the people responsible (Nefario and the people that let Nefario have so much control over GLBSE) for the screw up need to reach in their own pockets to make it right.

If I received a double payment I would send the extra back, but only when GLBSE sends me an email telling me: (1) they made a double payment, (2) how much I had in my account when it closed, and (3) contain a link to a form on GLBSE that gives a unique bitcoin payment address that will prove that I returned the coins.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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October 20, 2012, 05:58:39 AM
 #199


So people should not send back bitcoins from the double payments because there's no reason to believe he'll pay back because he can't cover the loss of the double payment? Is that serious? He has been paying out balances so far, why wouldn't he pursue that? If he wanted to steal those funds he wouldn't have returned any balance at all.

As for screwing BitcoinGlobal shareholders and closing GLBSE without warning... yes, I completely agree it's a very bad move. It doesn't mean he's gone and won't do anything. For once a website suddenly closing isn't running away with users funds. We have every reason to be dissatisfied, but I see no reason to think he will not attempt to process all balances as best as he can. For what his best worth...

The logs of his meeting with BitcoinGlobal shareholders screamed of a court order or chickening out in the face of possible legal issues. It doesn't seems he's closing GLBSE for the heck of it. He claims not having a choice.

People that received double payments have already made up their minds if they will pay back or not.  GLBSE will not receive 100% of those double payments back and the people responsible (Nefario and the people that let Nefario have so much control over GLBSE) for the screw up need to reach in their own pockets to make it right.

If I received a double payment I would send the extra back, but only when GLBSE sends me an email telling me: (1) they made a double payment, (2) how much I had in my account when it closed, and (3) contain a link to a form on GLBSE that gives a unique bitcoin payment address that will prove that I returned the coins.

^ This, plus  (4), a statement of my asset holdings at the time of GLBSE closing sent to me and to the asset issuers so that I can continue to receive dividends from my good faith investments. Quickly, before some other fuck up destroys Nefario's access to the database. I trust his stories of backups as much as I trust GLBSE woudn't shut down without notifying asset issuers of the beneficial owners of shares. He could even, heaven forbid, get sick and unable to function before my next dividends are due.
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October 20, 2012, 07:32:49 AM
 #200

Perfect business trick.
Nefario was given scammer tag, coz he didn't payback the bitcoins & assets in GLBSE.

Now he sent double payments & ordered to return the bitcoins, which makes whoever received the bitcoins & not giving it back has to get scammer tag.
How many persons will be given scammer tag in this forum for not paying back the double payment?

@Badbear: what you going to do about this?

Edit:I think badbear gave scammer tag, not theymos.

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