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Author Topic: GLBSE Payment Claims (Announce your payment here)  (Read 43694 times)
Namworld
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October 20, 2012, 05:09:38 PM
 #221

A few choice quotes from the shareholder meeting. It's a long read but please go read it for other shareholders' point of view about it. This mostly highlight what Nefario claims.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've decided to release the October 5th shareholder meeting minutes. I've removed IP addresses and the names of the shareholders that haven't been outed yet. Except for da2ce7, because he supported Nefario right from the beginning. With those exceptions, nothing else was changed.

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=DRt78Vne

[05/10/2012 16:59:18] <shareholder2> da2ce796: we don't even know if there is an investigation or order
...
[05/10/2012 16:59:59] <nefario> shareholder2: I can't tell you if there is an order if there IS one
...
[05/10/2012 18:05:04] <nefario> shareholder2: we COULD go against what my lawyer says
[05/10/2012 18:05:07] <nefario> the result would be
[05/10/2012 18:05:10] <shareholder4> suppose, just for a moment, that we vite no
[05/10/2012 18:05:11] <nefario> GLBSE gets shut down
[05/10/2012 18:05:16] <nefario> and I get imprisoned
...
[05/10/2012 18:15:09] <shareholder1> the simple point is some people are gonna lose bitcoins because they cant AML
...
[05/10/2012 18:16:05] <shareholder1> but who gets it ?
[05/10/2012 18:16:05] <nefario> I don't know
[05/10/2012 18:16:06] <chrisrico> you keep it?
[05/10/2012 18:16:09] <nefario> HAHA
[05/10/2012 18:16:10] <nefario> me
[05/10/2012 18:16:11] <nefario> lol
...
[05/10/2012 18:16:34] <nefario> I'll ask the lawyer what we do with the funds that are not claimed
...
[05/10/2012 18:32:35] <nefario> I propose a motion to have theymos return the user BTC which has in his posstion for the purpose of allowing me to repay users
[05/10/2012 18:32:42] <nefario> to me
[05/10/2012 18:32:43] <nefario> or
[05/10/2012 18:32:44] <nefario> coldhardmetal
...
[05/10/2012 18:41:05] <chrisrico> because in THIS case, THEYMOS has the money that NEFARIO wants
[05/10/2012 18:41:06] <shareholder1> So theres literally nothing we can do
[05/10/2012 18:41:27] <shareholder3_> guys, lets do this together, fighting internally does not help
[05/10/2012 18:41:31] <nefario> chrisrico: that is users money, not GLBSE's
[05/10/2012 18:41:40] <shareholder3_> lets finish the motion and move forward
[05/10/2012 18:41:44] <nefario> I don't want it, I'm happy for coldhardmetal to hold it
[05/10/2012 18:42:13] <nefario> we're waiting for cold to toll up the votes so far
[05/10/2012 18:42:15] <chrisrico> theymos can hold it
[05/10/2012 18:42:17] <shareholder1> I trust chm to do the right thing with it
[05/10/2012 18:42:42] <ColdHardMetal> 57.85% for. My vote doesn't matter. Motion carries
[05/10/2012 18:42:51] <shareholder2> that's funny
[05/10/2012 18:43:09] <shareholder2> nefario who wouldn't observe the result of a motion concerning him forces theymos to do so
...
[05/10/2012 18:44:36] <chrisrico> nefario: given that we are paying for this lawyer, please give us his contact information
[05/10/2012 18:44:38] <shareholder4> chrisrico: yes but just fot the lulz
[05/10/2012 18:44:42] <shareholder3_> not about the legal stuff, but the shutdown process i mean
[05/10/2012 18:44:51] <chrisrico> *his or her
[05/10/2012 18:44:55] <shareholder1> yes what is the lawyers contact info
[05/10/2012 18:45:02] <shareholder3_> so, when and how will glbse communicate with users?
[05/10/2012 18:45:15] <ColdHardMetal> asap.
[05/10/2012 18:45:15] <nefario> buckworthsolicitors.co.uk
...
[05/10/2012 18:49:34] <shareholder2> then i want full transparency since it's our lawyer
[05/10/2012 18:49:53] <shareholder2> anything else is dishonest, nefario
[05/10/2012 18:49:57] <nefario> shareholder2: then you'll have to give your AML info to me and take the same risk I am for GLBSE
...
[05/10/2012 18:53:48] <nefario> these are the basic facts the announcement needs to convey: 1) GLBSE is closing, 2) All BTC will be returned to users, 3) Users need to AML, 4) Issuers who are not already verifified will need to do AML, 5) Issuers who have been AML'd will be given all support to move off GLBSE, 6) Users AML'd will be given all support to move their assets off GLBSE
...
[05/10/2012 18:56:08] <nefario> shareholder4: I've talked about this with the lawyer, because there is no way to prove that one person hasn't oppened dozens of accounts with smaller amounts we have to do aml for everyone
...
[05/10/2012 18:43:12] <shareholder2> oh well
[05/10/2012 18:43:17] <chrisrico> what happened with the vote to remove nefario as CEO?
[05/10/2012 18:43:24] <chrisrico> out of curiousity
[05/10/2012 18:43:24] <shareholder1> didnt pass
[05/10/2012 18:43:24] <ColdHardMetal> didn;t pass
[05/10/2012 18:43:31] <nefario> shareholder2: I've not violated the results of any motions
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conspirosphere.tk
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October 20, 2012, 05:35:46 PM
 #222

So I'm certainly not going to give recipients of the extra money scammer tags at least until Nefario releases most of the BTC and asset info.

Its ok not to trust nefario but what you are saying will actually lead to the point were nefario wont give out any more payment nor the assetinfo.

I vote to put all the double payments in a legal fund to send Nefario to the jail where he belongs. Moreover I will donate all my GLBSE assets  to the first convict who rapes him.
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October 20, 2012, 05:49:26 PM
 #223

And under what cause could you possibly get him sent to prison? He's still processing payments and hasn't ran away with anyone's money, at least for now. He's also closing GLBSE, which is not a crime in itself. People don't go in prison for merely pissing people off.
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October 20, 2012, 05:59:41 PM
 #224

And under what cause could you possibly get him sent to prison? He's still processing payments and hasn't ran away with anyone's money, at least for now. He's also closing GLBSE, which is not a crime in itself. People don't go in prison for merely pissing people off.

I think a lawyer might find a lot of good reasons, even if you could argue that "processing payments" may reasonably take a thousand years.
At this regard there is this thread:

Legal Actions against Nefario
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117655.0
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October 20, 2012, 06:01:20 PM
 #225

I have received three payouts:
a086ad011a8d0b8f07ba2afd313c89cf208600f365827cd252d8dcd4c3ad3e89
f05343d3b7c64164d94431071e654312bbea5447aec9981bcafca792ea5d433e
826546b1f3844ea8b5b93b22ef0e872cdc6ece8e30d2d3888b12f8fd58dadf81

adding up to a bit more then 600 BTC Smiley
//DeaDTerra
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October 20, 2012, 06:06:06 PM
 #226

And under what cause could you possibly get him sent to prison? He's still processing payments and hasn't ran away with anyone's money, at least for now. He's also closing GLBSE, which is not a crime in itself. People don't go in prison for merely pissing people off.

I think a lawyer might find a lot of good reasons, even if you could argue that "processing payments" may reasonably take a thousand years.
At this regard there is this thread:

Legal Actions against Nefario
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117655.0

Thank you.

I'll look at those reasons.

I have received three payouts:
a086ad011a8d0b8f07ba2afd313c89cf208600f365827cd252d8dcd4c3ad3e89
f05343d3b7c64164d94431071e654312bbea5447aec9981bcafca792ea5d433e
826546b1f3844ea8b5b93b22ef0e872cdc6ece8e30d2d3888b12f8fd58dadf81

adding up to a bit more then 600 BTC Smiley
//DeaDTerra

Mind stating each payment was for which asset's account?
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October 20, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
 #227

And under what cause could you possibly get him sent to prison? He's still processing payments and hasn't ran away with anyone's money, at least for now. He's also closing GLBSE, which is not a crime in itself. People don't go in prison for merely pissing people off.

I think a lawyer might find a lot of good reasons, even if you could argue that "processing payments" may reasonably take a thousand years.
At this regard there is this thread:

Legal Actions against Nefario
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117655.0

Thank you.

I'll look at those reasons.

I have received three payouts:
a086ad011a8d0b8f07ba2afd313c89cf208600f365827cd252d8dcd4c3ad3e89
f05343d3b7c64164d94431071e654312bbea5447aec9981bcafca792ea5d433e
826546b1f3844ea8b5b93b22ef0e872cdc6ece8e30d2d3888b12f8fd58dadf81

adding up to a bit more then 600 BTC Smiley
//DeaDTerra

Mind stating each payment was for which asset's account?
Sure the first one if for GSDPT, the second one for GIPPT and the third one for GBF.
//DeaDTerra
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October 20, 2012, 06:10:37 PM
 #228

Thank you, updated the OP to show issuers at the top.
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October 20, 2012, 06:42:43 PM
 #229

A thief asking to return his stolen money is like asking for "fucking respect".

If you deserve it, you will get it.

That's the thing, you can believe as much as you want that he's incompetent and be angry all you want about GLBSE's closure, in the end, he hasn't stolen those funds. He's trying to distribute them and accidentally rerun the script for the 90% payment. Those funds are needed to pay those who haven't been paid yet. Keeping the funds to do yourself your own justice for GLBSE closing down and making you wait? It's the funds of other depositors you'd be keeping. It's not harming Nefario at all, I don't think his reputation could sink lower around here. Only thing keeping the funds can achieve is depriving other depositors from getting their balance paid out.

You can point to other people and say they are the reason why you have no responsibility for your failures. But that is not how I tick. I have hundreds of customers myself and if I make a mistake I always fix it. Even if it costs me money. Customers are never responsible for my mistakes. And I expect the same from everybody else. It is about taking responsibility. Morality will come second. I am sure most people are still honest here and if they feel you deserve it, they will return what is not rightfully theirs. But only after the people responsible for this mess have cleaned it up as good as they can.

If I understand correctly deeplink, you want them to pay for unreturned funds from their own pocket  and release info before sending them the BTC which would end up reimbursing what they paid from their own pocket? You're free to do that if you want. It does seem like their funds are tight, but as many already/are planning to return funds, I'm sure they can come up with a few 1000s USD for the remaining. Albeit I don't agree with people appointing themselves as escrow in the name of others, especially since they can't give or deny consent for this.

Strange reasoning. Of course I am free to fix their mistakes for them, but why should I, it wasn't me who messed up? If I had, you bet your ass I would.

Yes I want GLBSE to reimburse all customers everything they had. From their own pockets, by taking a loan, by working at McDonalds for the rest of their lives, who cares? Customers do not have to care about how GLBSE fixes their mistakes.
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October 20, 2012, 06:48:35 PM
 #230

Indeed I would expect them to pay, regardless of if some do not send back their doubled payment.

Although I don't believe it's the best and easiest way to proceed, I'm perfectly fine with your way of dealing with the situation, so long as the funds are returned once everyone has been paid.
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October 20, 2012, 08:39:53 PM
 #231

I think a lawyer might find a lot of good reasons, even if you could argue that "processing payments" may reasonably take a thousand years.
At this regard there is this thread:

No, if anyone is going to find offences which carry potential prison sentences (actual criminal prosecutions for AML type offences are pretty rare), it's the regulatory authorities.  Users can certainly go that route if they want to, but they need to do so mindful of the fact that they were participating in illegal activity themselves and weigh up whether it's worth the risk of finding their own financial dealings under scrutiny.

From the viewpoint of civil law, "clean hands" might be a sticking point.  If the user contracts with GLBSE and the asset issuers are illegal in and of themselves, then civil action to try to enforce them may well be futile.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 20, 2012, 09:00:38 PM
 #232

Strange reasoning. Of course I am free to fix their mistakes for them, but why should I, it wasn't me who messed up? If I had, you bet your ass I would.

Yes I want GLBSE to reimburse all customers everything they had. From their own pockets, by taking a loan, by working at McDonalds for the rest of their lives, who cares? Customers do not have to care about how GLBSE fixes their mistakes.
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October 20, 2012, 09:10:39 PM
 #233

No, if anyone is going to find offences which carry potential prison sentences (actual criminal prosecutions for AML type offences are pretty rare), it's the regulatory authorities.  Users can certainly go that route if they want to, but they need to do so mindful of the fact that they were participating in illegal activity themselves and weigh up whether it's worth the risk of finding their own financial dealings under scrutiny.

From the viewpoint of civil law, "clean hands" might be a sticking point.  If the user contracts with GLBSE and the asset issuers are illegal in and of themselves, then civil action to try to enforce them may well be futile.

So you are saying that since GLBSE users were not innocent, they would better suck whatever comes?
I'd rather go in jail with Nefarious.
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October 20, 2012, 09:41:45 PM
 #234

So you are saying that since GLBSE users were not innocent, they would better suck whatever comes?
I'd rather go in jail with Nefarious.

Tell  me what you believe your legal options are.  For a start, the amounts owed to most people would likely fall into the realm of small claims and small claims is an area which often requires the person making the claim to be present at the hearing.  It always requires you to prove your claim and often requires you to demonstrate that the person you're seeking judgement against has been given an opportunity to pay and didn't - ie, that payment is "overdue".  

If you're going to bypass small claims and try for individual lawsuits, then you're running into a real problem both with expense and with the court examining whether or not the activity in which people were engaging with GLBSE was legal.  As you can't file a lawsuit anonymously, you are tying yourself to an illegal activity in a legal forum in order to pursue an amount which is probably less than the fines you'd be facing for participating in that activity.  You'd be a fool to try to represent yourself in any such action, obviously, and international lawsuits are not cheap - you'd be looking at paying lawyers in at least two locations, and your cause of action is what?  That you lost money as a result of Nefario closing down an illegal enterprise?  Good luck with that argument.

Edit.  Just checked UK Civil Rules.  Here's what you're required to do prior to starting court action - including small claims action - against someone in England, Wales and Northern Island.  Annex A is especially important.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct


All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 20, 2012, 10:55:38 PM
 #235

So you are saying that since GLBSE users were not innocent, they would better suck whatever comes?
I'd rather go in jail with Nefarious.

Tell  me what you believe your legal options are.  For a start, the amounts owed to most people would likely fall into the realm of small claims and small claims is an area which often requires the person making the claim to be present at the hearing.  It always requires you to prove your claim and often requires you to demonstrate that the person you're seeking judgement against has been given an opportunity to pay and didn't - ie, that payment is "overdue".  

If you're going to bypass small claims and try for individual lawsuits, then you're running into a real problem both with expense and with the court examining whether or not the activity in which people were engaging with GLBSE was legal.  As you can't file a lawsuit anonymously, you are tying yourself to an illegal activity in a legal forum in order to pursue an amount which is probably less than the fines you'd be facing for participating in that activity.  You'd be a fool to try to represent yourself in any such action, obviously, and international lawsuits are not cheap - you'd be looking at paying lawyers in at least two locations, and your cause of action is what?  That you lost money as a result of Nefario closing down an illegal enterprise?  Good luck with that argument.

Edit.  Just checked UK Civil Rules.  Here's what you're required to do prior to starting court action - including small claims action - against someone in England, Wales and Northern Island.  Annex A is especially important.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct



Annex A is pretty much the only relevant part of that for small claims court in the UK.  Small claims in the UK does NOT require attendance in person unless the claim is disputed.

Anyone claiming would NOT be stating that the lost money because of Nefario closing down an illegal business - as, to date, nefario has issued no statement saying that.  If nefario wanted to claim in his response that he had been running an illegal business then that would be up to him, however unless he could demonstrate that YOU knew it was illegal at the time you invested ot wouldn't exactly be much of a defence.  The actual procedure/form is pretty simple (unless it's changed massively since I last did one a few years back), however I wouldn't recommend anyone go this route for a few reasons:

1.  It's very likely nefario is going to pay everyone/give everyone details on their assets anyway.  He's just doing it in the slowest, most convoluted and error-prone manner he could devise.
2.  Forget small claims unless you live in the UK.
3.  I'm dubious whether, if disputed, it would get to remain a small-claims case - as issues like whether bitcoin have monetary value are likely to be considered too complex for the fast-track system.  So would claiming against a partnership where most partners arent known and aren't even UK citizens - trying to pin it all on nefario would likely be too complex an argument for the small-claims procedure.
4.  Even if you win it doesn't magically give you anything back.  All you get is a judgment saying you are owed a certain amount of money, then the hard part comes - actually getting it.  Bear in mind that any claim is against the company, not against nefario the individual (if his partners believe any loss is down to just him then that's a seperate case for them to resolve).

Frankly, #1 is the main issue.  Not sure why anyone's even considering legal action when all we've so far is total panic and oncompetence from nefario, nothing which suggests he actually intends to defraud anyone (other than, arguably, his fellow share-holders).  My main worry right now is that he'll do something dumb like overwrite his database by mistake - or send everyone someone else's list of assets.  If he's spewing bitcoins around at random I dread to imagine what lists asset issuers are going to get.
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October 21, 2012, 01:42:01 AM
 #236

This is all speculation. Likely, but speculation. You will never get everyone to return their double payments, so Nefario will always have a reason to point to that and say it is not his fault he is stalling.

Yes, thats why i say its maybe created. I mean you see how many reasons people come up that want to stop their scammy hyip? Its various.

Instead it could be more productive if customers made a united stand and responded that this mess has to be fixed first. Customers are not responsible for this fuck-up. Also see the post above your post.

Um... what kind of pressure do you think can be done? Dont you see how angry the people in here are? I mean the next step would be physical violence or something. I dont see how one could pressure nefario even more now and still being lawful.

Im with you saying that not all people will give the money back easily. But i say there were worse excuses for not giving back from various hyip-scam-artists.

Only saying...

I have received three payouts:
a086ad011a8d0b8f07ba2afd313c89cf208600f365827cd252d8dcd4c3ad3e89
f05343d3b7c64164d94431071e654312bbea5447aec9981bcafca792ea5d433e
826546b1f3844ea8b5b93b22ef0e872cdc6ece8e30d2d3888b12f8fd58dadf81

adding up to a bit more then 600 BTC Smiley
//DeaDTerra

So are you an issuer? Would be good if that at least... i hope asicminer is next. Your amount of btc is nice enough to raise hope.
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October 21, 2012, 07:37:08 AM
 #237

This is all speculation. Likely, but speculation. You will never get everyone to return their double payments, so Nefario will always have a reason to point to that and say it is not his fault he is stalling.

Yes, thats why i say its maybe created. I mean you see how many reasons people come up that want to stop their scammy hyip? Its various.

Instead it could be more productive if customers made a united stand and responded that this mess has to be fixed first. Customers are not responsible for this fuck-up. Also see the post above your post.

Um... what kind of pressure do you think can be done? Dont you see how angry the people in here are? I mean the next step would be physical violence or something. I dont see how one could pressure nefario even more now and still being lawful.

Im with you saying that not all people will give the money back easily. But i say there were worse excuses for not giving back from various hyip-scam-artists.

Only saying...

I have received three payouts:
a086ad011a8d0b8f07ba2afd313c89cf208600f365827cd252d8dcd4c3ad3e89
f05343d3b7c64164d94431071e654312bbea5447aec9981bcafca792ea5d433e
826546b1f3844ea8b5b93b22ef0e872cdc6ece8e30d2d3888b12f8fd58dadf81

adding up to a bit more then 600 BTC Smiley
//DeaDTerra

So are you an issuer? Would be good if that at least... i hope asicminer is next. Your amount of btc is nice enough to raise hope.
Issuer and trader Smiley
As said I recommend calling James, he's a nice guy according to my experience.
//DeaDTerra
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October 21, 2012, 08:40:55 AM
 #238

I only recieved 2 payments, still waiting for the rest of my bitcoin and assets.
61c8f6be4373580a03d750466177a4c2ae1212886b211e85188ce6aaaef4a130
53f3d11dff7683581c355611fb04658a075e8a9a2d43019b695cd889a8501a05

With a grand total of 7.4 btc.

Greetz
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October 21, 2012, 12:37:03 PM
 #239

Issuer and trader Smiley
As said I recommend calling James, he's a nice guy according to my experience.
//DeaDTerra

Can you pm me or friedcat(asicminer issuer) the phonenumber of james? I got my little btc but wait for the sharesinfo like any other. And friedcat said that glbse isnt answering for mails. So having the number would be good probably when he talks on phone.
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October 21, 2012, 03:06:07 PM
 #240


namworld, you can add this to original post.
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