IOTA

[ImI]

It's certainly no threat, what could we possibly be threatening with? The terms of our sale agreement were simple: You prepurchase software, we develop said software, you get said software - deal is done. No more, no less.

If people also want us to continue working + other people who will be in the foundation, then of course they have to pay for it. No one is going to work 5-10 hour days for anyone for free, that's borderline slavery. The reason we have to take this blunt tone is that a lot of people in crypto tend to actually treat the initiators of projects like slaves that they somehow inexplicably 'own' for all eternity.

Then why are you so hesitant to accept Bitcoins as donation? I can see that the foundation has its value but i cannot see the necessity to fund it strictly with IOTA. 

[1715322183]

1715322183

[iotatoken]

There is an implied threat, sure. That there will be a fork and that what we have as software will be useless. I would also say that this would appear to me to be a breach of the terms of sale of said software.

If this software is no longer part of the tangle we were supposed to be a part of, then I'm not quite sure what it is that we have bought. This would feel a little like being sold a car and then told "AHA! Only problem is that you can't drive it on any roads, but still, you got what you paid for". Problem is, the software sale is attached to the idea of the tangle itself - if you fork the tangle and just go on your merry way, I'm not sure how that will look (well, yes i do).

ps. if this "threat" is not what is implied by "company driven consortium" then I apologize before hand.

Implied threat? No. What is the 'threat' here? I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

What did we sell? Software. What have we created? Software.
The software will perform as advertised. What we want to do outside of that is 100% up to us as individuals and as a company. Do you actually think that you own us because you purchased a product from us?

What is being discussed here is a Foundation, it's a separate entity from our company altogether. It's a proposed entity that will work to ensure IOTA adoption. What is ambiguous about this? Where in your software purchase did you see that we promised to work for free to ensure your software adoption? What is this insanity?

We never sold exclusive rights to our usage of the tangle for all eternity. We made IOTA because we need it in the tech stack for our company, just like you bought it because you presumably need it for some IoT / ledger project. In that regard we are equals. *If* this community is unable to ensure what OUR vision is, then we will simply take another route for OUR vision. That's our right as human beings, we are not slaves that owe anyone anything beyond the software.

To put this into the perspective of your own metaphor: you purchased a car, yes, not a road. We have not built a road, the road is community effort, that's what open source communities is all about. What we are *proposing* to the community now is that we can create a group of focused and dedicated individuals to build the most crucial parts of said road, but of course it's not free. Why would you expect 10 people to work full time for free? I can't fathom this line of thinking.

Only in crypto can you do everything right, be 100% explicit, make people profit and people will still twist your words and make false accusations, even after they themselves have profited from your volunteer work. Astonishing.

[iotatoken]

It's certainly no threat, what could we possibly be threatening with? The terms of our sale agreement were simple: You prepurchase software, we develop said software, you get said software - deal is done. No more, no less.

If people also want us to continue working + other people who will be in the foundation, then of course they have to pay for it. No one is going to work 5-10 hour days for anyone for free, that's borderline slavery. The reason we have to take this blunt tone is that a lot of people in crypto tend to actually treat the initiators of projects like slaves that they somehow inexplicably 'own' for all eternity.

Then why are you so hesitant to accept Bitcoins as donation? I can see that the foundation has its value but i cannot see the necessity to fund it strictly with IOTA. 

We never said strictly with IOTA. But of course IOTA makes the most sense as then the funding increase in value in conjunction with the work performance. We have had this discussion at least 5 times and we have never ever said "no bitcoin", just that we prefer the IOTA as all members of the foundation will want to be paid in IOTA anyway.

[bubbletea789]

There is an implied threat, sure. That there will be a fork and that what we have as software will be useless. I would also say that this would appear to me to be a breach of the terms of sale of said software.

If this software is no longer part of the tangle we were supposed to be a part of, then I'm not quite sure what it is that we have bought. This would feel a little like being sold a car and then told "AHA! Only problem is that you can't drive it on any roads, but still, you got what you paid for". Problem is, the software sale is attached to the idea of the tangle itself - if you fork the tangle and just go on your merry way, I'm not sure how that will look (well, yes i do).

ps. if this "threat" is not what is implied by "company driven consortium" then I apologize before hand.

just a friendly reminder that you were buying an open source software, issued under the standard open source T&C, should have read the T&C...iirc forking was clearly stated as one of the potential risks.

[iotatoken]

There is an implied threat, sure. That there will be a fork and that what we have as software will be useless. I would also say that this would appear to me to be a breach of the terms of sale of said software.

If this software is no longer part of the tangle we were supposed to be a part of, then I'm not quite sure what it is that we have bought. This would feel a little like being sold a car and then told "AHA! Only problem is that you can't drive it on any roads, but still, you got what you paid for". Problem is, the software sale is attached to the idea of the tangle itself - if you fork the tangle and just go on your merry way, I'm not sure how that will look (well, yes i do).

ps. if this "threat" is not what is implied by "company driven consortium" then I apologize before hand.

just a friendly reminder that you were buying an open source software, issued under the standard open source T&C, should have read the T&C...iirc forking was clearly stated as one of the potential risks.

It's even worse. This guy talks about buying a car, we deliver the car and now he demands that we make a road for him for free too. Mindblowing.

[rtrtcrypto]

If you don't deliver a ROAD, I would argue that you failed to deliver on the software you intended to deliver. This software with no tangle/network is not software - it would not be much of anything actually. I'm not sure how you would argue otherwise.

And again this "volunteer work" stuff. You raised +/-$500,000 dollars 5 months ago. That is a burn rate of 100k a month or so if the funds are gone - quite high. I'm not sure in which planet getting half a million dollars is = to volunteer work.

Btw, I agree 100% that the foundation and its members need salaries - I don't think you should work for free at all. Just, this needed to be planned out better. Further, and once more, there is also a glaring contradiction in saying IOTA is only software for IOT and then asking to be paid in it and ONLY it.

EDIT: Read your reply, please provide the BTC address for donations. I'm sure the community will step up. Thanks.

There is an implied threat, sure. That there will be a fork and that what we have as software will be useless. I would also say that this would appear to me to be a breach of the terms of sale of said software.

If this software is no longer part of the tangle we were supposed to be a part of, then I'm not quite sure what it is that we have bought. This would feel a little like being sold a car and then told "AHA! Only problem is that you can't drive it on any roads, but still, you got what you paid for". Problem is, the software sale is attached to the idea of the tangle itself - if you fork the tangle and just go on your merry way, I'm not sure how that will look (well, yes i do).

ps. if this "threat" is not what is implied by "company driven consortium" then I apologize before hand.

Implied threat? No. What is the 'threat' here? I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

What did we sell? Software. What have we created? Software.
The software will perform as advertised. What we want to do outside of that is 100% up to us as individuals and as a company. Do you actually think that you own us because you purchased a product from us?

What is being discussed here is a Foundation, it's a separate entity from our company altogether. It's a proposed entity that will work to ensure IOTA adoption. What is ambiguous about this? Where in your software purchase did you see that we promised to work for free to ensure your software adoption? What is this insanity?

We never sold exclusive rights to our usage of the tangle for all eternity. We made IOTA because we need it in the tech stack for our company, just like you bought it because you presumably need it for some IoT / ledger project. In that regard we are equals. *If* this community is unable to ensure what OUR vision is, then we will simply take another route for OUR vision. That's our right as human beings, we are not slaves that owe anyone anything beyond the software.

To put this into the perspective of your own metaphor: you purchased a car, yes, not a road. We have not built a road, the road is community effort, that's what open source communities is all about. What we are *proposing* to the community now is that we can create a group of focused and dedicated individuals to build the most crucial parts of said road, but of course it's not free. Why would you expect 10 people to work full time for free? I can't fathom this line of thinking.

Only in crypto can you do everything right, be 100% explicit, make people profit and people will still twist your words and make false accusations, even after they themselves have profited from your volunteer work. Astonishing.

[iotatoken]

If you don't deliver a ROAD, I would argue that you failed to deliver on the software you intended to deliver. This software with no tangle/network is not software - it would not be much of anything actually. I'm not sure how you would argue otherwise.

What? What? What? The software will work, the network will emerge from the users of the software. We have ZERO obligation to work tirelessly to onboard users to the network. What are you even remotely talking about?

And again this "volunteer work" stuff. You raised +/-$500,000 dollars 5 months ago. That is a burn rate of 100k a month or so if the funds are gone - quite high. I'm not sure in which planet getting half a million dollars is = to volunteer work.

Ugh this bullshit again. How many times do you have to be told that the funds go to

1) IOTA development
2) Jinn development
3) Taxes (yes, we're a real company, we have to pay those)

Where in this purchase did we say we would also form a foundation and work for free for you?

I can't continue this conversation, I have to visit my oncologist to see if your posts gave me cancer.

[ImI]

Whats kind of silly in this whole "discussion" is the fact that nothing has even happend yet. The 5% will most likely be easily reached, just let everyone know that we have a stable and final release and let all those IOTAs change hands that have been sold the last months and THEN have a look at where we stand.

Its just completely unnecessary to have such a hostile discussion at this moment.

 

[Come-from-Beyond]

but http://188.138.57.93/nostalgia.html not change the balance

but what about transfer @Bitme? if I do not get in my address, I should go back to @Bitme

PM me with a screenshot of what you see.

[iotatoken]

Whats kind of silly in this whole "discussion" is the fact that nothing has even happend yet. The 5% will most likely be easily reached, just let everyone know that we have a stable and final release and let all those IOTAs change hands that have been sold the last months and THEN have a look at where we stand.

Its just completely unnecessary to have such a hostile discussion at this moment.

 

I agree, and have said this previously, but when people talk as if they own us, as if we are threatening and blackmailing, they have to be addressed. Such insanity can't go unridiculed and exposed as trolling. Unfortunately online such bullshit often tend to grow roots.

[50cent_rapper]

Whats kind of silly in this whole "discussion" is the fact that nothing has even happend yet. The 5% will most likely be easily reached, just let everyone know that we have a stable and final release and let all those IOTAs change hands that have been sold the last months and THEN have a look at where we stand.

Its just completely unnecessary to have such a hostile discussion at this moment.

 

Yeap, add in official GUI button DONATE.
That's all 

[Come-from-Beyond]

Is it still possible to create 5% more coins for foundation or deflate the current coin supply to 95% and leave 5% for the foundation?

No. Re-read the terms of the sale if you don't see that.

[Warren.Buffet]

I suggest the community cool down for a while.

The IOTA guys are doing a 'good cop, bad cop' routine to massage everyone into putting up their 5% donation. Expect CfB (aka good cop) to pop back in soon with some humor and soothing words. We get to 'hate' iotatoken, then we kiss and make up with CfB ... then we all pay our 5% and move on.

I really don't think anyone wants to take a shit on the ICO investors, they just want to scare the bollocks off of everyone, and it's probably working

[bubbletea789]

If you don't deliver a ROAD, I would argue that you failed to deliver on the software you intended to deliver. This software with no tangle/network is not software - it would not be much of anything actually. I'm not sure how you would argue otherwise.

And again this "volunteer work" stuff. You raised +/-$500,000 dollars 5 months ago. That is a burn rate of 100k a month or so if the funds are gone - quite high. I'm not sure in which planet getting half a million dollars is = to volunteer work.

Btw, I agree 100% that the foundation and its members need salaries - I don't think you should work for free at all. Just, this needed to be planned out better. Further, and once more, there is also a glaring contradiction in saying IOTA is only software for IOT and then asking to be paid in it and ONLY it.

EDIT: Read your reply, please provide the BTC address for donations. I'm sure the community will step up. Thanks.

well you are free to maintain your tangle. noone stops you from doing that. and hell you can even persuade someone to work for you for free for that version of the foundation, travelling the work and talk to ibm and stuff. does not sound too hard ey.

[msin]

Can someone post the latest version of client or maybe update the OP with a link and directions on running.  I can't access Iota Chat right now. Thanks.

[hoertest]

Whats kind of silly in this whole "discussion" is the fact that nothing has even happend yet. The 5% will most likely be easily reached, just let everyone know that we have a stable and final release and let all those IOTAs change hands that have been sold the last months and THEN have a look at where we stand.

Its just completely unnecessary to have such a hostile discussion at this moment.

 

+1000 , release it , set up a donation address and see what happens.

[50cent_rapper]

Whats kind of silly in this whole "discussion" is the fact that nothing has even happend yet. The 5% will most likely be easily reached, just let everyone know that we have a stable and final release and let all those IOTAs change hands that have been sold the last months and THEN have a look at where we stand.

Its just completely unnecessary to have such a hostile discussion at this moment.

 

+1000 , release it , set up a donation address and see what happens.

Even better to add donation button, no one will miss it in this case.

[rtrtcrypto]

Ridiculous and drama ridden as always. Good to see not much has changed.

-I just stated (many times in fact) that I don't expect the foundation to work for free and have (many times) already declared my intention of helping in its funding.

-My posts made no mention of on-boarding anything/anyone. I mentioned the tangle as a metaphor to a road. I'm not asking you to provide the traffic or other cars, I'm asking that my software have something to run on. If that happens, then yes, I would agree that you have provided a functional software product that meet the "donation" conditions.

As always there is no room to speak with you on any issue or concern. You are, still, completely overwhelmed by this part of the job. I will keep making this point until you run IOTA into the ground/change/or go ahead with the possible plans to fork IOTA and leave everyone around here hanging.

Good luck at the doctor, I hope you get good news. Schedule the shrink after your negative diagnosis at the oncologist.  

If you don't deliver a ROAD, I would argue that you failed to deliver on the software you intended to deliver. This software with no tangle/network is not software - it would not be much of anything actually. I'm not sure how you would argue otherwise.

What? What? What? The software will work, the network will emerge from the users of the software. We have ZERO obligation to work tirelessly to onboard users to the network. What are you even remotely talking about?

And again this "volunteer work" stuff. You raised +/-$500,000 dollars 5 months ago. That is a burn rate of 100k a month or so if the funds are gone - quite high. I'm not sure in which planet getting half a million dollars is = to volunteer work.

Ugh this bullshit again. How many times do you have to be told that the funds go to

1) IOTA development
2) Jinn development
3) Taxes (yes, we're a real company, we have to pay those)

Where in this purchase did we say we would also form a foundation and work for free for you?

I can't continue this conversation, I have to visit my oncologist to see if your posts gave me cancer.

[banqueiro]

(...)If people also want us to continue working + other people who will be in the foundation, then of course they have to pay for it. No one is going to work 5-10 hour days for anyone for free, that's borderline slavery.(...)

Put in these words, now I understand, and it is only fair that I donate.

Thank you, and sorry for all misunderstandings. I am donating paying my 5% due for your works

[domsch]

As always there is no room to speak with you on any issue or concern. You are, still, completely overwhelmed by this part of the job. I will keep making this point until you run IOTA into the ground/change/or go ahead with the possible plans to fork IOTA and leave everyone around here hanging.

Happy to buy up all of your IOTA tokens so that we no longer have to deal with people like you in this community.