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Author Topic: [ANN][PIVX] - PRIVATE INSTANT VERIFIED TRANSACTION - POS 2.0 - ZEROCOIN PROTOCOL  (Read 692317 times)
I_LOVE_PIVX
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August 12, 2017, 04:51:19 AM
 #8641

Thanks for this good explanation!!!!
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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August 12, 2017, 06:09:33 AM
 #8642

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html is correct. Note that the payment is only estimated for masternodes there, NOT for staking.
There's a reason for that.

Let me explain this with an example:

1: Let's assume (for ease of computation) we'd have exactly 1440 masternodes.

2: there are (on average) 1440 new PIVX blocks per day, each worth 5 PIV, minus 10% for the PIVX budget is 4.5 PIV per day for masternodes and stakers

3: from 1: and 2: it's pretty clear that on average each masternode gets one reward per day

4: the amount each masternode will get depends on PIVXs seesaw algorithm: if there are a lot of stakers and few masternodes, the masternodes get more, if there are lot's of masternodes and few stakers the stakers get more. Right now stakers get 2.16 PIV per block, masternodes 2.34 PIV

5: since we know the exact number of masternodes (here: 1440) and therefore the number of rewards they get per day (here: 1) we can exactly compute how much each masternode will get per day, 2.34 PIV in this example.

6: but, we don't know how may people are staking, and which amounts of their PIV are used for staking. If only ONE single person would be staking he would get 1440 * 2.16 PIV per day, if there are 1440 people who stake (assuming they stake with the same number of coins, which they don't) each one would get 1 * 2.16 PIV per day.


Easy to see that because we have 3 variables (number of people staking, amount used for staking from each, and the time the wallet actually IS online and staking) it's not possible to predict how much PIV each staker will get per day.

Thanks for the excellent explanation!

I didn't read the white-paper but assumed already that the high reward had something to do with a low number of people staking. So when the number of people staking is low it can be more profitable to stake instead of running a master-node.

Are wallets (when they are online and staking) supporting the network in the same way as master-nodes do?
SnappySnap
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August 12, 2017, 05:32:58 PM
 #8643

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html is correct. Note that the payment is only estimated for masternodes there, NOT for staking.
There's a reason for that.

Let me explain this with an example:

1: Let's assume (for ease of computation) we'd have exactly 1440 masternodes.

2: there are (on average) 1440 new PIVX blocks per day, each worth 5 PIV, minus 10% for the PIVX budget is 4.5 PIV per day for masternodes and stakers

3: from 1: and 2: it's pretty clear that on average each masternode gets one reward per day

4: the amount each masternode will get depends on PIVXs seesaw algorithm: if there are a lot of stakers and few masternodes, the masternodes get more, if there are lot's of masternodes and few stakers the stakers get more. Right now stakers get 2.16 PIV per block, masternodes 2.34 PIV

5: since we know the exact number of masternodes (here: 1440) and therefore the number of rewards they get per day (here: 1) we can exactly compute how much each masternode will get per day, 2.34 PIV in this example.

6: but, we don't know how may people are staking, and which amounts of their PIV are used for staking. If only ONE single person would be staking he would get 1440 * 2.16 PIV per day, if there are 1440 people who stake (assuming they stake with the same number of coins, which they don't) each one would get 1 * 2.16 PIV per day.


Easy to see that because we have 3 variables (number of people staking, amount used for staking from each, and the time the wallet actually IS online and staking) it's not possible to predict how much PIV each staker will get per day.

Thanks for the excellent explanation!

I didn't read the white-paper but assumed already that the high reward had something to do with a low number of people staking. So when the number of people staking is low it can be more profitable to stake instead of running a master-node.

Are wallets (when they are online and staking) supporting the network in the same way as master-nodes do?


Hey there!

Yes:  When staking has a higher reward (than MN) it means that on the see-saw algo, there are less coins being staked than Masternodes.  Thus, the reward balances is automatically shifted/recalculated to reward the stakers more.  Thus, during that time frame, it *can be more profitable to stake vs have masternodes.

As for your second comment "are wallets supporting the network in the same way as masternodes" - Yes!!!  This is actually a REALLY unique feature of PIVX (we'll be doing a DYK and paper on this soon).  PIVX is one of (if not only) DOUBLE VALIDATION cryptos out there.  What I mean by that is this.  EVERY block has to be verified by BOTH a Masternode and a Staking wallet, independently.  This adds in even MORE security (less likely of someone being able to hack the network/double spend). 

Stakers are VERY important to the network.  Just like Masternodes.  Together, they provide a double-verification based on consensus.  Pretty sweet.

It really also does speak to that everyone who has PIVX is participating IN this endeavor together.
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August 12, 2017, 05:34:59 PM
 #8644

ALSO:
Sneak peak:

There are over 650 PIVIANS in our Chinese QQ (this is the main hub used in China for communication).  They are finalizing a translated/new Chinese focused block explorer and working already on more Chinese exchanges Smiley
Filmmmakerr
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August 12, 2017, 10:23:55 PM
 #8645

When is Zerocoin being integrated? and whens the next update?

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JoostB
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August 13, 2017, 06:30:40 AM
 #8646

ALSO:
Sneak peak:

There are over 650 PIVIANS in our Chinese QQ (this is the main hub used in China for communication).  They are finalizing a translated/new Chinese focused block explorer and working already on more Chinese exchanges Smiley

Thanks Snappy, good to know!

It is very important to have access to the Asian market especially the Chinese one.

Since I believe PIVX has a very bright future ahead I will buy some more and setup two master-nodes to support the network.

Any idea about how the Zerocoin-protocol integration is progressing?
I_LOVE_PIVX
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August 13, 2017, 11:48:09 AM
 #8647

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html is correct. Note that the payment is only estimated for masternodes there, NOT for staking.
There's a reason for that.

Let me explain this with an example:

1: Let's assume (for ease of computation) we'd have exactly 1440 masternodes.

2: there are (on average) 1440 new PIVX blocks per day, each worth 5 PIV, minus 10% for the PIVX budget is 4.5 PIV per day for masternodes and stakers

3: from 1: and 2: it's pretty clear that on average each masternode gets one reward per day

4: the amount each masternode will get depends on PIVXs seesaw algorithm: if there are a lot of stakers and few masternodes, the masternodes get more, if there are lot's of masternodes and few stakers the stakers get more. Right now stakers get 2.16 PIV per block, masternodes 2.34 PIV

5: since we know the exact number of masternodes (here: 1440) and therefore the number of rewards they get per day (here: 1) we can exactly compute how much each masternode will get per day, 2.34 PIV in this example.

6: but, we don't know how may people are staking, and which amounts of their PIV are used for staking. If only ONE single person would be staking he would get 1440 * 2.16 PIV per day, if there are 1440 people who stake (assuming they stake with the same number of coins, which they don't) each one would get 1 * 2.16 PIV per day.


Easy to see that because we have 3 variables (number of people staking, amount used for staking from each, and the time the wallet actually IS online and staking) it's not possible to predict how much PIV each staker will get per day.

Thanks for the excellent explanation!

I didn't read the white-paper but assumed already that the high reward had something to do with a low number of people staking. So when the number of people staking is low it can be more profitable to stake instead of running a master-node.

Are wallets (when they are online and staking) supporting the network in the same way as master-nodes do?


Hey there!

Yes:  When staking has a higher reward (than MN) it means that on the see-saw algo, there are less coins being staked than Masternodes.  Thus, the reward balances is automatically shifted/recalculated to reward the stakers more.  Thus, during that time frame, it *can be more profitable to stake vs have masternodes.

As for your second comment "are wallets supporting the network in the same way as masternodes" - Yes!!!  This is actually a REALLY unique feature of PIVX (we'll be doing a DYK and paper on this soon).  PIVX is one of (if not only) DOUBLE VALIDATION cryptos out there.  What I mean by that is this.  EVERY block has to be verified by BOTH a Masternode and a Staking wallet, independently.  This adds in even MORE security (less likely of someone being able to hack the network/double spend). 

Stakers are VERY important to the network.  Just like Masternodes.  Together, they provide a double-verification based on consensus.  Pretty sweet.

It really also does speak to that everyone who has PIVX is participating IN this endeavor together.

How often is the seesaw algorithmen adjusting the amount for MN and stakers? If a staker with 6000 make much more PIVX reward within a month then mw we a MN (100% uptime) there is somthing going wrong !!!
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August 13, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
 #8648

How often is the seesaw algorithmen adjusting the amount for MN and stakers? If a staker with 6000 make much more PIVX reward within a month then mw we a MN (100% uptime) there is somthing going wrong !!!

It's re-calculated after every block.

And if a staker with 6000 PIV can make more money per month than a masternode with 10000 PIV it simply means there are not enough stakers compared to masternodes.

This creates an incentive for masternode owners to use their 10000 collateral for staking instead of running a masternode. People will do that until the staker-reward per 10000 PIV per month is less than the masternode rewards per month. Then they will run masternodes again.

It's a self-balancing system.

The reason for this seesaw algorithm is to avoid that either a) no one stakes any more because running a masternode is much more lucrative, or b) everyone stakes and nobody runs masternodes anymore.

We need both stakers (to secure the blockchain) and masternodes (to secure/provide the infrastructure for the blockchain itself, SwiftTx, the budget system, ...), and seesaw takes care of this on a protocol level.

TL;DR: there's nothing wrong, everything works as designed.
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August 13, 2017, 07:12:38 PM
 #8649

When is Zerocoin being integrated? and whens the next update?
It annoys me now that I don't know the date of zerocoin integration. But maybe it is better not to know it. This will avoid a pump before integration and a dump at integration.
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August 14, 2017, 01:48:47 AM
 #8650

When is Zerocoin being integrated? and whens the next update?
It annoys me now that I don't know the date of zerocoin integration. But maybe it is better not to know it. This will avoid a pump before integration and a dump at integration.
Did they not integrate it in the 2.3.0 version, which got released recently? What were the main features of 2.3.0 version?
Fuzzbawls
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★YoBit.Net★ 200+ Coins Exchange & Dice


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August 14, 2017, 02:54:40 AM
 #8651

When is Zerocoin being integrated? and whens the next update?
It annoys me now that I don't know the date of zerocoin integration. But maybe it is better not to know it. This will avoid a pump before integration and a dump at integration.
Did they not integrate it in the 2.3.0 version, which got released recently? What were the main features of 2.3.0 version?

Everything you need to know about the v2.3.0 release: https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX/releases/tag/v2.3.0

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August 14, 2017, 05:04:45 AM
 #8652

When is Zerocoin being integrated? and whens the next update?
It annoys me now that I don't know the date of zerocoin integration. But maybe it is better not to know it. This will avoid a pump before integration and a dump at integration.
Did they not integrate it in the 2.3.0 version, which got released recently? What were the main features of 2.3.0 version?

Everything you need to know about the v2.3.0 release: https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX/releases/tag/v2.3.0

i installed it, everything works fine - but on pivx.org there are still only downloadlinks to windows 32 and 64 bit version 2.2.1 ! very confusing!
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August 14, 2017, 05:30:59 AM
 #8653

When is Zerocoin being integrated? and whens the next update?
It annoys me now that I don't know the date of zerocoin integration. But maybe it is better not to know it. This will avoid a pump before integration and a dump at integration.
Did they not integrate it in the 2.3.0 version, which got released recently? What were the main features of 2.3.0 version?

Everything you need to know about the v2.3.0 release: https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX/releases/tag/v2.3.0

i installed it, everything works fine - but on pivx.org there are still only downloadlinks to windows 32 and 64 bit version 2.2.1 ! very confusing!


not sure if you just have to refresh but all donwnload links pointing to https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX/releases/download/v2.3.0/.... atm on pivx.org
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August 14, 2017, 07:26:12 AM
 #8654

This site does not show any figures, maybe the dev. is also in this forum ...

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html



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August 14, 2017, 08:43:43 AM
 #8655

I'm glad the PIVX masternode count is staying high.  Imagine the carnage on coins without a similar cash flow incentive to keep running the network's nodes.   

CRAVE: NEXT GENERATION! 66% Masternode Block Reward | 500 CRAVE per Masternode | Only 1.43M CRAVE exist
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August 14, 2017, 10:33:35 AM
 #8656

PivX has the most awesome support and community, I am a heavy supporter of PivX.

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August 14, 2017, 12:28:18 PM
 #8657

This site does not show any figures, maybe the dev. is also in this forum ...

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html





...what do you mean?

Expected Payment per Masternode: every 1.47 days
Exchange Rate (Avg. from top 3 exchanges): 1.84421 USD
Reward for last Block: 4.50 PIV
Reward from last Block for Miners/Stakers: 2.21 PIV
Reward from last Block for Masternodes: 2.29 PIV
Estimated Payment per Masternode: 1.57 PIV / day
Estimated Payment in USD: <> $ 2.89 / day <> $ 86.61 / month <> $ 1053.80 / year
Estimated Payment in Euro: <> 2.45 € / day <> 73.43 € / month <> 893.44 € / year

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August 15, 2017, 09:01:50 AM
 #8658

This site does not show any figures, maybe the dev. is also in this forum ...

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html





...what do you mean?

Expected Payment per Masternode: every 1.47 days
Exchange Rate (Avg. from top 3 exchanges): 1.84421 USD
Reward for last Block: 4.50 PIV
Reward from last Block for Miners/Stakers: 2.21 PIV
Reward from last Block for Masternodes: 2.29 PIV
Estimated Payment per Masternode: 1.57 PIV / day
Estimated Payment in USD: <> $ 2.89 / day <> $ 86.61 / month <> $ 1053.80 / year
Estimated Payment in Euro: <> 2.45 € / day <> 73.43 € / month <> 893.44 € / year

then it seems that it was an temporary problem - at the time i posted this, there were no figures at all ... great that it works again !
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August 15, 2017, 09:06:19 AM
 #8659

Can someone explain me in which timeframe the SeeSaw Alog adjusts the payout for staking and for masternodes?

This seems to be very constant:

Reward from last Block for Miners/Stakers: 2.21 PIV
Reward from last Block for Masternodes: 2.29 PIV

As i read in this forum, it seems that with the same amount of pivx, u get higher reward than a masternode.

I just dont understand that, cuz this clould only happen, if the rewards % for stakers has not been adjusted for long time?

Everyone knows how often the percantage is adjusted? Daily? Weekly?

Thanks
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August 15, 2017, 09:29:37 AM
 #8660

Can someone explain me in which timeframe the SeeSaw Alog adjusts the payout for staking and for masternodes?

This seems to be very constant:

Reward from last Block for Miners/Stakers: 2.21 PIV
Reward from last Block for Masternodes: 2.29 PIV

As i read in this forum, it seems that with the same amount of pivx, u get higher reward than a masternode.

I just dont understand that, cuz this clould only happen, if the rewards % for stakers has not been adjusted for long time?

Everyone knows how often the percantage is adjusted? Daily? Weekly?

Thanks

It seems the seesaw algorithm adjusts after each block, my guess is that the number of MN vs stakers doesn't change much over time. I remember seeing 2.25 / 2.25 a couple of days ago, so it changes, but not by much.

The reward for stakers also depends upon the number of people staking and the number of coins in their wallets, when there are just a few people staking the frequency in which you receive stakes can get very high. Everything was already explained in this thread a few days back.

There is a big variance in frequency in which I receive stakes, sometimes I get 4 stakes in 1 day and sometimes I get just 1 stake in 2 or 3 days. I don't know what causes this behavior, considering the number of blocks generated per day I would expect the variance to be less. 
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