bad news for bASIC - not shipping til mid Jan at best

[crazyates]

While looking for concrete evidence on the bASIC forum, I just saw this gem from yesterday, which is spoken as a mini-announcement on progress:

"I received a couple of packets of information from the design team, including rudimentary diagrams and datasheets on stuff like heat sinks and BGA packages.
All kinds of stuff which I am sifting through as we speak - we will have some of the most requested information live as soon as possible."

Straight from the horse's mouth: they have NOTHING done.

This. At least BFL gives SOME information/pics. I really think Tom's a lot further behind than he claims to be.

[creativex]

Not exactly encouraging news coming from BTCFPGA lately, that's for sure.

I dunno, if Tom doesn't have chips then he lied as far as I'm concerned and I'm not there at this point. I'd rather have working chips than pics of a board that may or may not be a production unit populated by chips that aren't ASICs which is my current understanding of the silly propaganda stunt BFL pulled. I still think BTCFPGA is better positioned than BFL to ship AND their products are a whole lot more affordable.

January is not far away though and both Avalon and BTCFPGA are supposed to ship something. I have no idea what BFL is saying now, other than the fairy tale end of December stuff which doesn't even pass the smell test.

[SgtSpike]

I'm with you as far as BFL/Josh/Inaba's word goes. I wouldn't invest a thin dime based on what he or anyone else at BFL says(if there is anyone else at BFL) w/o solid evidence at this point...but that's just my opinion and my dime. I do however believe in ngzhang, Cablepair, and friedcat. If Tom wanted to really screw folks that pre-ordered his products he'd not have announced a two month delay that has understandably rattled many(myself included), he'd have announced a 2 week delay x4.

The when of ASIC mining gear is admittedly still up in the air, but the second reputable company's shipping deadline is approaching so the clock is ticking.

100% agreed. While it sucks the bASIC got delayed, I would much rather have it handled the way Tom did. Honestly I wouldn't have minded BFL's delays as much if in October they just said 'sorry, there is a delay. We will ship mid December' instead of October, I promise. End of October. Sorry delayed til first week Novemeber. Sorry delayed again mid November. End of November, I promise. Little delay again first week December, I promise. Ok ok this time I pinky swear promise, mid December.

Thing is, each of BFL's delays was for an individual reason.  It wasn't that they knew they wouldn't ship until December back in October, or they would have said so.

Estimated ship date, provided nothing went wrong, was late October.  As October neared, they looked at the parts that still needed to come in and revised their estimate to early November.  Then, the chips needed a revision, so they delayed to late November, which is when they expected their new chips to come in.  Chip run was delayed to December, so they revised again to 12/11.  I'm not sure if 12/11 is when they are receiving the chips or are expecting the units to be assembled, but time will tell I suppose.

So, sure, they could have arbitrarily given a December date way back in June, but why?  When they were expecting to ship in late October, provided everything went smoothly, why not say that they expect to ship in October, provided everything goes smoothly?  And then when delays happened, why not state that they were delayed, and when the new expected ship date would be, provided there were no other unforseen delays?  That's what they did, and I don't have any problems with it.  I know that this sort of development is tricky, and that there could be delays for a variety of reasons, but I wanted to know the "best case scenario" ship date anyway.  I've always viewed late October as a best-case scenario ship date, never as an expected ship date.

I don't see anything nonsensical in the way BFL handled the situation myself.

[creativex]

I do. Either BFL's COO is incompetent and cannot get anything straight or he's disingenuous and keeps manufacturing BS stories. Given that they keep making excuses and have contradicted each other I'll take the later explanation.

[crazyates]

I do. Either BFL's COO is incompetent and cannot get anything straight or he's disingenuous and keeps manufacturing BS stories. Given that they keep making excuses and have contradicted each other I'll take the later explanation.

So BFL's shipping delays = incompetent COO and malicious intent by all.
BTCFPGA's shipping delays = well intentions and honest hard work.

Does it get any more biased?

[MeSarah]

Not exactly encouraging news coming from BTCFPGA lately, that's for sure.

I dunno, if Tom doesn't have chips then he lied as far as I'm concerned .......

January is not far away though and both Avalon and BTCFPGA are supposed to ship something. I have no idea what BFL is saying now, other than the fairy tale end of December stuff which doesn't even pass the smell test.

@ creativex, your the one living in a world of fantasy. Tom has no PCB made, no heat sink manufactured, sourcing for power supplies falls upon you to buy elsewhere and you have no idea on the state of Tom's ASICs from the foundry. In short, Tom is trying to create a product in 2 months but has spent many months trying to create that product and has failed. On top of that Tom doesn't even know if his product will function as expected sense he has nothing to test. After all it could be a dud like his last attempt.

Look at BFL's supply chain, you have chassis, PCB, heat sinks, ASICs, power supplies, custom shipping packaging. BFL is waiting on one more puzzle piece for final testing before shipping. BFL's product is not an inferior basic product. For Tom it's about quantity not quality.

creativex, I wonder if you will call Tom's timeline a 'fairy tale' when he misses his latest announced ship date. You know he will for one reason or another.

[creativex]

I do. Either BFL's COO is incompetent and cannot get anything straight or he's disingenuous and keeps manufacturing BS stories. Given that they keep making excuses and have contradicted each other I'll take the later explanation.

So BFL's shipping delays = incompetent COO and malicious intent by all.
BTCFPGA's shipping delays = well intentions and honest hard work.

Correct, yes that's my interpretation. BFL has been advertising shipping "scheduled" for October for much of 2012. The delays are always billed as minor hiccups. Clock buffers being added to almost perfect chips...blah blah. That's crap and I don't buy it.

Does it get any more biased?

Who said I was unbiased? I didn't. I'm biased toward the company offering the most Gh at the lowest price that I believe stands the best chance of getting a product out of the lip service state, into a box, and onto my doorstep. It's only a side issue that Tom has integrity and Josh/Inaba does not IMO, you're welcome to your own.  

[creativex]

Not exactly encouraging news coming from BTCFPGA lately, that's for sure.

I dunno, if Tom doesn't have chips then he lied as far as I'm concerned .......

January is not far away though and both Avalon and BTCFPGA are supposed to ship something. I have no idea what BFL is saying now, other than the fairy tale end of December stuff which doesn't even pass the smell test.

@ creativex, your the one living in a world of fantasy. Tom has no PCB made, no heat sink manufactured, sourcing for power supplies falls upon you to buy elsewhere and you have no idea on the state of Tom's ASICs from the foundry. In short, Tom is trying to create a product in 2 months but has spent many months trying to create that product and has failed. On top of that Tom doesn't even know if his product will function as expected sense he has nothing to test. After all it could be a dud like his last attempt.

Tom has never said he had production PCBs made that I'm aware of. Don't care about the power supplies, I'm a computer tech and have dozens. Tom began construction after BFL from all I've read, do you have contrary evidence? Actually Tom admitted to having a prototype, it was BFL that denied having one. You seem to be confused.

Look at BFL's supply chain, you have chassis, PCB, heat sinks, ASICs, power supplies, custom shipping packaging. BFL is waiting on one more puzzle piece for final testing before shipping. BFL's product is not an inferior basic product. For Tom it's about quantity not quality.

BFL has ASICs? Well then they're good to go right? ...except they don't work, or they're not "perfect" enough, depending on which BFL rep is disseminating. "Custom shipping packaging"? You're kidding right?

creativex, I wonder if you will call Tom's timeline a 'fairy tale' when he misses his latest announced ship date. You know he will for one reason or another.

Do you have information to share? BFL has missed multiple timelines. Do YOU expect them to ship by the end of December? How about January 1, 2013? When? I do not know Tom will miss another scheduled ship date. His track record even with this miss is far far better than BFL's, however if January 31, 2013 comes around and the spinmeisters at BFL have managed to spit out a working ASIC and I do not have one from Tom, I will likely cancel.
 

[MeSarah]

Don't care about the power supplies, I'm a computer tech and have dozens. ... Actually Tom admitted to having a prototype, it was BFL that denied having one. You seem to be confused.

Do YOU expect them to ship by the end of December? How about January 1, 2013? When? ... Tom, I will likely cancel.

What a simple mind you have creativex. I suppose in your world things don't change until someone directly tells you they have changed. I suppose your unable to discern that when BFL 'found the flaw' is was done threw testing that simulations did not reveal. Maybe you think that BFL is incapable of producing a prototype after they said they didn't have one.

I expect BFL to ship when the quality it right. What's that saying, 'no fine wine will be served before it's time'? BFL is a Chateau Ausone Saint Emilion, bASIC is MD 20/20.

Tom is going to have a hard time with warranties with people supplying their own power supplies. Many of them will be old faulty units that were replace for a reason. This alone I surmise will increase Tom's operating cost 30%-60%, maybe even more. Also it will increase the chance of a customer getting a refurbished unit sold as new.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvwtuepRj0k

[creativex]

What a simple mind you have creativex.

Can the insults dude in drag, at least until you learn to spell. If you'd like to debate and exchange viewpoints I got no problem with that.

I suppose in your world things don't change until someone directly tells you they have changed. I suppose your unable to discern that when BFL 'found the flaw' is was done threw testing that simulations did not reveal. Maybe you think that BFL is incapable of producing a prototype after they said they didn't have one.

Are you suggesting something has changed? Anything to back that up? I'm not interested in BFL's excuses for bending the pooch over. I distrust everything they say anyway. Even if their stories were consistent, and they are not, they wouldn't pass the stench test. The fact that a convicted thief works for BFL is a great reason for them to keep their noses clean, to be be honest and transparent, but this has not happened.

I expect BFL to ship when the quality it right. What's that saying, 'no fine wine will be served before it's time'? BFL is a Chateau Ausone Saint Emilion, bASIC is MD 20/20.

...okay. I generally consume under 1/3 Ozt of AG/bottle Pinot Noir, Syrah, or Shiraz. I'll take the bASIC01, pocket the difference between it and the overpriced single SC, and pick up a couple cases while enjoying my extra 12Gh/s thanks.  

Tom is going to have a hard time with warranties with people supplying their own power supplies. Many of them will be old faulty units that were replace for a reason. This alone I surmise will increase Tom's operating cost 30%-60%, maybe even more. Also it will increase the chance of a customer getting a refurbished unit sold as new.

That's not my problem now is it? Tom seems like a savvy businessman to me, I think he can fend for himself.

[SAC]

I expect BFL to ship when the quality it right.

I see your verbal diarrhea continues. Would that be the same stellar quality control that allowed the FPGAs to ship with POS power supplies, fans not attached rattling around, bad thermal pasting...

[MeSarah]

@ creativex, thank you for making my point about you being simple minded. Even when given evidence you are unable to see it in front of you. Maybe it's a comprehension problem.

[creativex]

@ creativex, thank you for making my point about you being simple minded. Even when given evidence you are unable to see it in front of you. Maybe it's a comprehension problem.

Hey no problem. Thanks for the...umm...evidence.

[SLok]

Joyous moments for some here, again, BFL ain't shipping a thing till somewhere in January, as it seems now.

[creativex]

Everybody is in the same boat now. Avalon's small pre-order seems like the front runner to ship first at this point.

[squeept]

Everybody is in the same boat now. Avalon's small pre-order seems like the front runner to ship first at this point.

I wasn't worried AT ALL about Avalon's date until they posted the stock photos of random people hunkered down over random equipment. That is the ONLY thing that scares me about them.

[BitSyncom]

Everybody is in the same boat now. Avalon's small pre-order seems like the front runner to ship first at this point.

I wasn't worried AT ALL about Avalon's date until they posted the stock photos of random people hunkered down over random equipment. That is the ONLY thing that scares me about them.

Is that suppose to be sarcasm?

[PuertoLibre]

Joyous moments for some here, again, BFL ain't shipping a thing till somewhere in January, as it seems now.

Surprise?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/492-good-news-good-read.html

As Debbie from BFL wrote in her last Mail:
We had originally hoped to be shipping by now, but unfortunately, we are still waiting for some parts to come in. We are working to start shipping orders before the end of the year.

You could anticipate your order shipping sometime in February or March. If they are ready sooner, we will ship them sooner.
We appreciate your patience as we are working to bring you the latest in mining technology.

Happy X-mas 😢

Certainly, the order number is not mentioned. But the January date does not sound incorrect at all.

[Starlightbreaker]

Joyous moments for some here, again, BFL ain't shipping a thing till somewhere in January, as it seems now.

Surprise?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/492-good-news-good-read.html

As Debbie from BFL wrote in her last Mail:
We had originally hoped to be shipping by now, but unfortunately, we are still waiting for some parts to come in. We are working to start shipping orders before the end of the year.

You could anticipate your order shipping sometime in February or March. If they are ready sooner, we will ship them sooner.
We appreciate your patience as we are working to bring you the latest in mining technology.

Happy X-mas 😢

Certainly, the order number is not mentioned. But the January date does not sound incorrect at all.

Called it.

 

[PuertoLibre]

Joyous moments for some here, again, BFL ain't shipping a thing till somewhere in January, as it seems now.

Surprise?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/492-good-news-good-read.html

As Debbie from BFL wrote in her last Mail:
We had originally hoped to be shipping by now, but unfortunately, we are still waiting for some parts to come in. We are working to start shipping orders before the end of the year.

You could anticipate your order shipping sometime in February or March. If they are ready sooner, we will ship them sooner.
We appreciate your patience as we are working to bring you the latest in mining technology.

Happy X-mas 😢

Certainly, the order number is not mentioned. But the January date does not sound incorrect at all.

Called it.

 

You know what is really absurd about this situation?

The vendor with the longest release schedule is now the earliest when compared to the other 2.