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Author Topic: [ANN][DCR] Decred - Community Governance | Bitcoin Devs | Lightning Network  (Read 1199620 times)
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November 18, 2019, 12:19:09 AM
 #11001

In my opinion, Decred was always a decent project with a dedicated team.

We can see that the development is ongoing and lately we have some strong moves upwards price wise and that is why I started to wonder what is so special about Decred, despite this what I have already mentioned?

There are other better, faster and cheaper altcoins that already are used for transfers, we have BTC which has found a place as digital gold and safe haven and to be honest I don't hear anything about Decred implementations or use cases?

Community governance sounds very good and to be honest, on this hype Decred makes his way to the top 50 on CMC, but what is the future for Decred?

You didn't say anything about privacy and the lightning network that is already implemented in v1.5 release candidadate1 recently released


EDIT: There is no other currency as safe against attacks as decred.
         DCR is more safe than bitcoin
         The governance system through politeia allows any new feature on market to be implemented if the stakeholders wish.

On-chain governance system works until a motivated minority stops following the majority. Remember, changes in the network are permanent. What happens if there's a group dedicated enough not to accept those changes?

Dedicated minorities don't mean beans for Decred Cheesy Chain splits like what happened with BTC/BCH and ETH/ETC can't happen in Decred (next to impossible). Check out my earlier post for sauce:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290358.msg52950978#msg52950978


Can't happen? What if there was a motivated minority that didn't want the "new feature" in an upgrade? What if the majority already voted in 1GB blocks, and the minority didn't want it? What if the miners need to change the supply cap to support their costs, and the majority voted for it, but the minority didn't want it?

What would happen to the minority? They wouldn't have the ability to fork, and split away?

Unless a "minority" has sufficient voting power in the form of staked tickets, then no, they can't create a contentious hard fork. Decred is specifically designed to make contentious forks unprofitable, and in fact, costly for a minority to continue operating.
If some group doesn't ultimately agree with the majority of stakeholders, they can fork the github repo, rename it, and release their own coin.

That said, I'm pretty sure Politeia has a 60/40 approval threshold on proposals.


Or rename it to Decred Classic, "the real for-the-community Decred". I'm not sure of what's technically possible, but that was the point of the debate. On-chain governance can't stop a community of different standpoints from breaking apart, and splitting away.

There's one very important nuance though, and that's the difference between a forked repo, and a forked chain. A forked chain that has a contentious hard fork growing on it shares the same previous block history as the "legit" chain.
A forked repo doesn't. The only thing it shares with the "legit" chain is some subset of the source code, and we all know that a successful crypto project is WAYYY more than just its source. Bob and Sally can go fork the Decred repo and name their coin Decred Classic if they wish, but nothing in that chain history will show anything of Decred. It would in fact, just be some other crypto coin. And history has shown us already: copy pasta crypto coins are rarely more than a scam. The market doesn't usually acknowledge such coins.  Cheesy


without replay protection ~ what makes you think the original chain nodes will not be sybil attacked via malicious state actors? Smiley weeee

Without PoS votes on the validity of contentious blocks, a sybil attack isn't an actual attack vector in this scenario.
Try again Gem Cheesy

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November 18, 2019, 05:58:39 AM
 #11002

In my opinion, Decred was always a decent project with a dedicated team.

We can see that the development is ongoing and lately we have some strong moves upwards price wise and that is why I started to wonder what is so special about Decred, despite this what I have already mentioned?

There are other better, faster and cheaper altcoins that already are used for transfers, we have BTC which has found a place as digital gold and safe haven and to be honest I don't hear anything about Decred implementations or use cases?

Community governance sounds very good and to be honest, on this hype Decred makes his way to the top 50 on CMC, but what is the future for Decred?

You didn't say anything about privacy and the lightning network that is already implemented in v1.5 release candidadate1 recently released


EDIT: There is no other currency as safe against attacks as decred.
         DCR is more safe than bitcoin
         The governance system through politeia allows any new feature on market to be implemented if the stakeholders wish.

On-chain governance system works until a motivated minority stops following the majority. Remember, changes in the network are permanent. What happens if there's a group dedicated enough not to accept those changes?

Dedicated minorities don't mean beans for Decred Cheesy Chain splits like what happened with BTC/BCH and ETH/ETC can't happen in Decred (next to impossible). Check out my earlier post for sauce:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290358.msg52950978#msg52950978


Can't happen? What if there was a motivated minority that didn't want the "new feature" in an upgrade? What if the majority already voted in 1GB blocks, and the minority didn't want it? What if the miners need to change the supply cap to support their costs, and the majority voted for it, but the minority didn't want it?

What would happen to the minority? They wouldn't have the ability to fork, and split away?

Unless a "minority" has sufficient voting power in the form of staked tickets, then no, they can't create a contentious hard fork. Decred is specifically designed to make contentious forks unprofitable, and in fact, costly for a minority to continue operating.
If some group doesn't ultimately agree with the majority of stakeholders, they can fork the github repo, rename it, and release their own coin.

That said, I'm pretty sure Politeia has a 60/40 approval threshold on proposals.


Or rename it to Decred Classic, "the real for-the-community Decred". I'm not sure of what's technically possible, but that was the point of the debate. On-chain governance can't stop a community of different standpoints from breaking apart, and splitting away.

There's one very important nuance though, and that's the difference between a forked repo, and a forked chain. A forked chain that has a contentious hard fork growing on it shares the same previous block history as the "legit" chain.
A forked repo doesn't. The only thing it shares with the "legit" chain is some subset of the source code, and we all know that a successful crypto project is WAYYY more than just its source. Bob and Sally can go fork the Decred repo and name their coin Decred Classic if they wish, but nothing in that chain history will show anything of Decred. It would in fact, just be some other crypto coin. And history has shown us already: copy pasta crypto coins are rarely more than a scam. The market doesn't usually acknowledge such coins.  Cheesy

That's true. But it's only a scam from the standpoint of the original because of different "visions". Plus I'm not convinced that a contentious hard fork is impossible because it's not profitable. The motivated minority can sell Decred from the main chain to support the fork.

I'm a Decred HODLER, but I believe the coin is only successful until that first chain split.

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November 18, 2019, 07:24:32 AM
 #11003

I'm a Decred HODLER, but I believe the coin is only successful until that first chain split.

Seriously? So in your opinion, coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum are not successful?
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November 18, 2019, 09:29:42 AM
 #11004

I prefer decred to believe that it will have a higher appreciation than bitcoin in the coming years.
DCR will appreciate in front of the btc, I see nothing that prevents decred from reaching where dash, monero and eth have already arrived. around 0.1 btc...

Remember about Litecoin. Despite everything (second crypto ever, fair launch, LN, etc.) still, the price never reached higher than 0.02BTC.

...several blockchain projects in the real world that use dcr, mainly in Brazil, such as www.originalmy.com...
The creator of originalmy is currently in eastern Europe, creating solutions for the Estonian and Latvian governments using the decred and DCRtime blockchain.
In Brazil there are also companies that pay your bills and receive decred.
Soon we will have a prepaid visa card which will be loaded with dcr and can be used in any store...

This is what I wanted to hear and see, which are real use cases for Decred. To be honest this is not much for an almost 4 years old cryptocurrency but is always better than nothing. Let's hope that there will be indeed more companies interested in Decred because this is the only way for this project to survive.

...Expecting developers to do everything, even find a use for currency, is the biggest mistake everyone else makes.

I just can't agree and think that cryptocurrency should at least have a purpose or any use case when developed because we already have more than 2970 cryptocurrencies that are trying to find the place on the market and to be honest without real use cases I don't see this to happen.

As I said we are entering the 2020 year and today is not enough only to launch a cryptocurrency to be successful exactly as until 2017. Today competition is so big that if your crypto is not special and doesn't have any purpose, then there are already hundreds of altcoins like this and they already lost 99% of the value until today.

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November 18, 2019, 03:13:50 PM
 #11005

I'm a Decred HODLER, but I believe the coin is only successful until that first chain split.

Seriously? So in your opinion, coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum are not successful?

they both have split, decred hard-fork will be good for ending this nonsense once and for all.  Cool  BLACKLIST THE GREEDY RICHLIST! >>>fork this turd already! lol

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November 18, 2019, 09:39:27 PM
Last edit: November 18, 2019, 10:09:12 PM by EmilioMann
 #11006

I prefer decred to believe that it will have a higher appreciation than bitcoin in the coming years.
DCR will appreciate in front of the btc, I see nothing that prevents decred from reaching where dash, monero and eth have already arrived. around 0.1 btc...

Remember about Litecoin. Despite everything (second crypto ever, fair launch, LN, etc.) still, the price never reached higher than 0.02BTC.



That was at another point in the market. Until 2016 the altcoins market was totally undervalued by the mainstream.
This has changed since 2016 and a lot of money has entered this market.
As I said before, ETH, Dash and monero had their ATH above 0.1 BTC. Decred can do the same or get close if it becomes more popular.
You also forgot to count the amount of coins in the market and the total supply.
Decred has around 10 million units launched of a total of 21 million.
Litecoin and others have 10X, 100X more units.
More units are expected to be worth less.
 


...several blockchain projects in the real world that use dcr, mainly in Brazil, such as www.originalmy.com...
The creator of originalmy is currently in eastern Europe, creating solutions for the Estonian and Latvian governments using the decred and DCRtime blockchain.
In Brazil there are also companies that pay your bills and receive decred.
Soon we will have a prepaid visa card which will be loaded with dcr and can be used in any store...

This is what I wanted to hear and see, which are real use cases for Decred. To be honest this is not much for an almost 4 years old cryptocurrency but is always better than nothing. Let's hope that there will be indeed more companies interested in Decred because this is the only way for this project to survive.


Decred has a very strong community spread across all continents. I just mentioned what is happening in Brazil, which is where I live and the community I belong to. I am sure that in other regions, local communities must be developing the currency ecosystem.



...Expecting developers to do everything, even find a use for currency, is the biggest mistake everyone else makes.

I just can't agree and think that cryptocurrency should at least have a purpose or any use case when developed because we already have more than 2970 cryptocurrencies that are trying to find the place on the market and to be honest without real use cases I don't see this to happen.

As I said we are entering the 2020 year and today is not enough only to launch a cryptocurrency to be successful exactly as until 2017. Today competition is so big that if your crypto is not special and doesn't have any purpose, then there are already hundreds of altcoins like this and they already lost 99% of the value until today.

The purpose of decred is to be the best and safest store of value in the market.
In addition it also provides income not only for POW miners, but also for stakeholders through POS, privacy and amazing governance.
Satoshi created bitcoin to fuck the system and the banks.
All coins that appears for another purpose in a beautiful whitepaper turns out to be scam.
Cryptocoins were not created to save the planet, to help musicians, artists, gnomes, urea production and bla bla bla
Can the blockchain be used for other purposes? Yes, but it is up to the community entrepreneurs to start their business and make money from it.
There is no need to find just one utility and create a coin around it. The blockchain is there, use it any way you like.
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November 19, 2019, 06:34:41 AM
 #11007

I'm a Decred HODLER, but I believe the coin is only successful until that first chain split.

Seriously? So in your opinion, coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum are not successful?


No, in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.


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November 19, 2019, 10:42:07 AM
 #11008

...There is no need to find just one utility and create a coin around it. The blockchain is there, use it any way you like.

I hope you are right and Decred will be strong enough to survive and stay for longer in the crypto space.

Of course, I am researching (refreshing my knowledge) about many projects which were famous in 2017.

I am really shocked that many of them are already dead, abandoned, delisted or just not developed anymore.

Luckily this is not the case for Decred and here the team and community seem to be strong.

...in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

I think a motivated minority will be able to cause a chain split.

Decred is developed to make it not possible because it would be very costly to do, but what if some bad actor would be only interested in finishing Decred project by a chain split to prove that on-chain governance is broken and don't think about the cost?

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November 19, 2019, 01:32:17 PM
 #11009

I'm a Decred HODLER, but I believe the coin is only successful until that first chain split.

Seriously? So in your opinion, coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum are not successful?


No, in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

Are you a troll?



...in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

I think a motivated minority will be able to cause a chain split.

Decred is developed to make it not possible because it would be very costly to do, but what if some bad actor would be only interested in finishing Decred project by a chain split to prove that on-chain governance is broken and don't think about the cost?

Yes, we can say that it is impossible to chain split decred without stakeholders agreeing to it.
Atack decred costs 20X more than taking control of bitcoin in a 51% attack.
Why would someone spend 20x more to attack decred, if with 20X less, they can do with bitcoin and earn much more billions of dollars?

https://blog.usejournal.com/apples-to-apples-decred-is-20x-more-expensive-to-attack-than-bitcoin-68bafeb4546f

https://medium.com/decred/decreds-hybrid-protocol-a-superior-deterrent-to-majority-attacks-9421bf486292

https://medium.com/decred/detailed-analysis-of-decred-fork-resistance-93022e0bcde7

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November 19, 2019, 03:44:57 PM
 #11010

blah blah blah ===>

The purpose of decred is to be the best and safest store of value in the market.
In addition it also provides income not only for POW miners, but also for stakeholders through POS, privacy and amazing governance.
Satoshi created bitcoin to fuck the system and the banks.
All coins that appears for another purpose in a beautiful whitepaper turns out to be scam.
Cryptocoins were not created to save the planet, to help musicians, artists, gnomes, urea production and bla bla bla
Can the blockchain be used for other purposes? Yes, but it is up to the community entrepreneurs to start their business and make money from it.
There is no need to find just one utility and create a coin around it. The blockchain is there, use it any way you like.

===> DECRED TRIED TO TAKE AWAY MY PRIVACY!! <===

YES BITCOIN IS HERE TO HELP ARTISTS, MUSICIANS, & REAL PEOPLE!!!

ALL DECRED IS IS ANOTHER CENTRALIZED SHITCOIN. JUST LOOK AT THE RICHLIST!!! \_@@_/ NO REAL WORLD USE.




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November 19, 2019, 08:08:10 PM
 #11011

I'm a Decred HODLER, but I believe the coin is only successful until that first chain split.

Seriously? So in your opinion, coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum are not successful?


No, in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

Are you a troll?



...in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

I think a motivated minority will be able to cause a chain split.

Decred is developed to make it not possible because it would be very costly to do, but what if some bad actor would be only interested in finishing Decred project by a chain split to prove that on-chain governance is broken and don't think about the cost?

Yes, we can say that it is impossible to chain split decred without stakeholders agreeing to it.
Atack decred costs 20X more than taking control of bitcoin in a 51% attack.
Why would someone spend 20x more to attack decred, if with 20X less, they can do with bitcoin and earn much more billions of dollars?

https://blog.usejournal.com/apples-to-apples-decred-is-20x-more-expensive-to-attack-than-bitcoin-68bafeb4546f

https://medium.com/decred/decreds-hybrid-protocol-a-superior-deterrent-to-majority-attacks-9421bf486292

https://medium.com/decred/detailed-analysis-of-decred-fork-resistance-93022e0bcde7


Yes, exactly. The possibility is there of course, but it's quite infinitesimally small. Not only is there nothing to be gained, but it would be an unimaginable cost (even at current difficulty, and the difficulty just keeps going up, btw) to execute. We're talking on the level of governments and nation-states.
Honestly, one should be more afraid of the chance solar flares will ruin internet infrastructure before worrying about Decred having a contentious chain split.

Grow the Dividend Snek! (pm me if you have questions)
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November 20, 2019, 10:35:32 AM
 #11012

I'm a Decred HODLER, but I believe the coin is only successful until that first chain split.

Seriously? So in your opinion, coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum are not successful?


No, in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

Are you a troll?


Don't do that. I'm debating for learning's sake. There are some people in the Bitcoin community who had been saying that "blockchain governance is a joke". I'm simply trying to find answers.

But I'll try to get answers from some of the developers to simple questions, like what if the motivated minority, comprised of miners and stakers, simply refuse to run the Core developers' software, and develops their own, with their own rules?

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EmilioMann
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November 20, 2019, 07:38:57 PM
 #11013


No, in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

Are you a troll?


Don't do that. I'm debating for learning's sake. There are some people in the Bitcoin community who had been saying that "blockchain governance is a joke". I'm simply trying to find answers.

But I'll try to get answers from some of the developers to simple questions, like what if the motivated minority, comprised of miners and stakers, simply refuse to run the Core developers' software, and develops their own, with their own rules?

You have been answered here many times about this question.
Decred devs are no longer coming to bitcointalk for toxicity and trolls.
You can talk to all of them on DCR matrix
 

https://chat.decred.org/#/welcome
wwzsocki
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First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold


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November 21, 2019, 10:46:33 AM
 #11014

...Atack decred costs 20X more than taking control of bitcoin in a 51% attack...
Honestly, one should be more afraid of the chance solar flares will ruin internet infrastructure before worrying about Decred having a contentious chain split.

Thank you very much for all these detailed answers and all the additional info both of you have provided.

I have asked these questions because the explanation that nobody will fork Decred because of the high costs, somehow doesn't convince me.

We have seen already that in crypto space people are able to lose millions of dollars just to stand up and prove something to someone (hash wars).




IncludeBeer
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November 21, 2019, 05:17:51 PM
 #11015

Point of fact: every "established" blockchain project has their own forum/chat....usually multiple.  Roll Eyes

Grow the Dividend Snek! (pm me if you have questions)
https://powh.io/?masternode=0x1f9b145fdaef2b82aef29c2f3c9b875a8b017512
gembitz
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November 22, 2019, 05:30:37 PM
 #11016


No, in my opinion Decred, with its thesis of on-chain governance, will be a failure if indeed a motivated minority does cause a chain split.

Are you a troll?


Don't do that. I'm debating for learning's sake. There are some people in the Bitcoin community who had been saying that "blockchain governance is a joke". I'm simply trying to find answers.

But I'll try to get answers from some of the developers to simple questions, like what if the motivated minority, comprised of miners and stakers, simply refuse to run the Core developers' software, and develops their own, with their own rules?

You have been answered here many times about this question.
Decred devs are no longer coming to bitcointalk for toxicity and trolls.
You can talk to all of them on DCR matrix
 

https://chat.decred.org/#/welcome

stop spamming your virus/wallet stealer links bro!

===> WALLED GARDEN STYLE COMMUNICATIONS ^^^ = TEXTBOOK QUALIFIER TO BEING CRYPTO FRAUD.

" ===> ACTUAL GOVERNMENTS ENFORCE THEIR CURRENCIES USING FORCE @ THE BARREL OF A GUN.

DECRED DEVELOPERS EXIT SCHEME WHEREAS THEY RUN AWAY LAUGHING WITH ACTUAL MONEY & USERS INFO TO SELL ON THE DARKWEB===>

UNREGISTERED SECURITIES / PHISHING SCAMS LIKE THIS ARE PERFECT TARGETS FOR GOVT. REGULATORS * 

>> WHERE'S MY AIRDROP COINS YOU GREEDY PRICKS!! = WE NEVER FORGET WE NEVER FORGIVE * EXPECT BITCOINERS!! * "

©2021*MY POSTS ARE STRICTLY FOR NOVELTY AND/OR PRESERVATION/COLLECTING PURPOSES ONLY!*It should not be regarded as investment/trading advice.*advocate to promote sharing and free software for the bitcoin community* #EFF #FSF ===> START WITH NOTHING AND BUILD IT INTO SOMETHING!
Wind_FURY
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November 29, 2019, 07:30:32 AM
 #11017

...Atack decred costs 20X more than taking control of bitcoin in a 51% attack...
Honestly, one should be more afraid of the chance solar flares will ruin internet infrastructure before worrying about Decred having a contentious chain split.

Thank you very much for all these detailed answers and all the additional info both of you have provided.

I have asked these questions because the explanation that nobody will fork Decred because of the high costs, somehow doesn't convince me.

We have seen already that in crypto space people are able to lose millions of dollars just to stand up and prove something to someone (hash wars).


You're right, I'm not convinced. Because the in nature of cryptocurrency networks is its immutability. Once forked/changed, everyone is expected to follow, it can't be unchanged. But what about the part of the community who didn't want those changes? Plus what if they're right?

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Net-chain
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December 02, 2019, 02:52:15 AM
Last edit: December 03, 2019, 03:16:41 AM by Net-chain
 #11018

Decred has been listed at https://cointostake.com (staking statistics + monitoring)

Check staking rewards, stats, ROI. POS earning calculator.

EmilioMann
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December 10, 2019, 05:22:25 PM
 #11019

November's issue of the Decred Journal is out now! Check it out for updates on DEX development, v1.5.0, approval of the Latam marketing initiative, a series of blog posts about LightningNetwork ticket splitting, and packed Media and External sections.


https://medium.com/decred/decred-journal-november-2019-3f4a5d0ad6de



KawaBunGa
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December 11, 2019, 02:12:33 AM
 #11020

156.91 DCR for a ticket  Shocked What the hell?
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