Bitcoin will be at CES2013 (Official Thread)

[BitPay Business Solutions]

Bitcoin will return to the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in 11 days, bigger and better than last year!


January 8-11, 2013 - Las Vegas

We have an all new booth design, a corner aisle location, and many more exciting upgrades.  Over 150,000 people attended this show in 2012, and 2013 should be just as big.

The Bitcoin booth is funded by BitPay, Butterfly Labs, and Bitcoin Magazine.

We will give plenty of payment demonstrations, help install bitcoin wallets, show some mining hardware, give away some Bitcoin Magazines, sell some Casascius bitcoins, and most importantly answer questions and educate people with accurate information about bitcoin.

Bitcoin booth # 70312

Map to our booth:  http://www.mapyourshow.com/shows/index.cfm?Show_ID=ces13&exhid=T0009202&booth=70312&hall=O

Photos of our booth:






Here's how you can help:

Jan 2-3-4 are the days to press every reporter you know, get them to put Bitcoin booth 70312 on their short list of booths to visit.

Jan 8-9-10 are the days to push creative Twitter campaigns using #CES2013 and #bitcoin and mention "booth 70312"

Also, if you remember the spokesmodel tryouts we held last year, we have hired Stephanie to help us in the booth.  Stephanie is a licensed attorney in California with a background in Finance, and she can definitely talk a good bitcoin game!

Stephanie's audition:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoZmhAf0GKA

Any REAL bigshots you can get on the hook, invite them to our private welcome party on Monday night at the Cosmopolitan.  We have our own VIP space in the Library.  Have them contact me for details.



Also, Crystal from Whiskey Dicks will be helping us with the payment demos.  If you met Crystal at the Bitcoin Summit in Philadelphia, then you know she is a hard-core libertarian and she's stoked about bitcoin.



Tell reporters that the Bitcoin booth is not to be missed!!

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[bbit]

+1 ^^woot^^

[cbeast]

Looks like a good booth plan for the CES crowd. I hope there will be others representing Bitcoin as well.

[greyhawk]

Looks like a good booth plan for the CES crowd.

Not really. They're not at the LVCC, but at the Sands Convention Centre. That's like half an hour away from the "real" CES.

[Tuxavant]

Checking in. Looking forward to hanging out and talkin bitcoin again!

[JordanL]

That's great stuff guys. A lawyer spokesmodel? I love it.

[knight22]

Awesome! I wish you a great success out there

[BitPay Business Solutions]

Looks like a good booth plan for the CES crowd.

Not really. They're not at the LVCC, but at the Sands Convention Centre. That's like half an hour away from the "real" CES.

The Venetian is where all the startups are located, and it is where all the major companies go to scout emerging technologies.  Most of those types of people don't bother going to see the main hall with Justin Beiber and 50 Cent.  We are absolutely in the right location for the people we want to reach. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Allison?

[BitPay Business Solutions]

updated the OP with photos of the booth

[colindean]

I'll be at CES as press and will make every attempt to drop by the booth. I'll contact you privately about the party - I have a prior engagement that night, but want to come if time permits.

[cbeast]

Any word from Bitcoincard? Will they be at CES?

[HDSolar]

Looks like a good booth plan for the CES crowd.

Not really. They're not at the LVCC, but at the Sands Convention Centre. That's like half an hour away from the "real" CES.

The Venetian is where all the startups are located, and it is where all the major companies go to scout emerging technologies.  Most of those types of people don't bother going to see the main hall with Justin Beiber and 50 Cent.  We are absolutely in the right location for the people we want to reach. 

I agree, the main hall is the general and flashy crap but the Venetian and other satellite locations are where the money people go. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Looks like a good booth plan for the CES crowd.

Not really. They're not at the LVCC, but at the Sands Convention Centre. That's like half an hour away from the "real" CES.

The Venetian is where all the startups are located, and it is where all the major companies go to scout emerging technologies.  Most of those types of people don't bother going to see the main hall with Justin Beiber and 50 Cent.  We are absolutely in the right location for the people we want to reach.  

I agree, the main hall is the general and flashy crap but the Venetian and other satellite locations are where the money people go.  

At CES, it's not the location of booth, but the presentation of the swag that makes it a success.



Seriously, Tony, besides Bitcoin Magazine, what other swag are you guys planning on distributing? (just an 'I wonder' question)

[BitPay Business Solutions]

At CES, it's not the location of booth, but the presentation of the swag that makes it a success.



Seriously, Tony, besides Bitcoin Magazine, what other swag are you guys planning on distributing? (just an 'I wonder' question)

Ah good idea, let me see if I can get my hands on a couple NEFT oilcans.  we don't have much table space for giveaways.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Ah good idea, let me see if I can get my hands on a couple NEFT oilcans.  we don't have much table space for giveaways.

Looks to me there's enough space to store a couple dozen cans under the booth to be only dispersed to selected media folk or somebody you feel will take Bitcoin to the next level. (and hide the stash with the magazines)

[SwarmStream]

It's really great to see the collaboration amongst businesses in this community.

Were there ever startups coming together to create an email protocol booth at an event like this 20 years ago?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BitPay, Butterfly Labs, and Bitcoin Magazine are doing great things for the promotion of bitcoin.

Thank you

I just noticed that Mt Gox is not in the mix this year.

[btctalk]

too bad I cannot attend... :-"
+100 though...

[Transisto]

Awesome, You've got some amazing advertising material.

Are feedzebirds campaign getting ready to spam the tweet board ?

http://feedzebirds.com/

[FreeMoney]

Just noticed this page:

http://ces13.mapyourshow.com/5_0/exhibitor_details.cfm?exhid=T0009202&CFID=54931990&CFTOKEN=ccedf4dd804bf92-1E8D4AA6-ADF6-8099-8E9EDB10A325D142

has a bad link to bitpay.com, I think it is missing a colon.

[BitPay Business Solutions]

Just noticed this page:

http://ces13.mapyourshow.com/5_0/exhibitor_details.cfm?exhid=T0009202&CFID=54931990&CFTOKEN=ccedf4dd804bf92-1E8D4AA6-ADF6-8099-8E9EDB10A325D142

has a bad link to bitpay.com, I think it is missing a colon.

looks like a bug on their end. I took off the https:// and now it seems to work ok.  thanks for the tip!

[World]

BitPay, Butterfly Labs, and Bitcoin Magazine are doing great things for the promotion of bitcoin.

Thank you

+1
and I think CES its right place to show up new BFL ASIC hardware products

[SkRRJyTC]

BitPay, Butterfly Labs, and Bitcoin Magazine are doing great things for the promotion of bitcoin.

Thank you

+1
and I think CES its right place to show up new BFL ASIC hardware products

What new BFL ASIC hardware?  As far as I can tell this is advertising vaporware.

[World]

and I think CES its right place to show up new BFL ASIC hardware products

What new BFL ASIC hardware?  As far as I can tell this is advertising vaporware.

I do not know whether it will be there but I think it's a good place and time.

[Liquid]

Why is Australia Not on the map 

[robocoin]

BitPay, Butterfly Labs, and Bitcoin Magazine are doing great things for the promotion of bitcoin.

Thank you

+1
and I think CES its right place to show up new BFL ASIC hardware products

What new BFL ASIC hardware?  As far as I can tell this is advertising vaporware.

Would be the best place to actually show some asic hardware or working prototypes at least!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Bump to say that CES2013 starts on the heels of WSOBP VIII.

[hxtop]

it's cool and Exciting
wish it be very good
by the way
what time could be hold in China?

[amencon]

Bump to say that CES2013 starts on the heels of WSOBP VIII.

I competed in it a couple years ago, did terribly but was definitely a fun time.  It's quite a spectacle.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm just goin' to put this here: TechNewsDaily at CES 2013

[Boussac]

Great to know you are promoting Bitcoin at CES again this year: good luck with the show Tony.

[World]

@bitpay update from twitter
#bitcoin booth 70312 is ready for #CES #2013CES

[World]

Coding In My Sleep Goes to CES

[Photon939]

I hope the retail version cases have more vent holes, otherwise those poor ASICs are gonna suffocate in that little black box

Even if that arrangement keeps them within spec I'll probably have mine running naked like many of the FPGA single owners.

[lucif]

Please ask someone them a simple question: do the BFL devices mine or not?

Just YES or NO. If yes - demo please.

[Syke]

Please ask someone them a simple question: do the BFL devices mine or not?

Just YES or NO. If yes - demo please.

BFL is demoing their old FGPA miners. They have no working ASICs.

[lucif]

First ASIC arrived

http://youtu.be/e4wFkhafEdA

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Excellent interview, David, with Josh of BFL: http://codinginmysleep.com/coding-in-my-sleep-goes-to-ces/

[lucif]

Bitpay: may I ask you, what sort of marijuana did you smoke advertising clients "No PCI Compliance"?

PCI DSS is an industry standard for securing websites.

In your place, I'd take care of yr clients security.

People outside Bitcoin community already know that Bitcoin is something being continuously theft, scammed, laundered.

[Foxpup]

Bitpay: may I ask you, what sort of marijuana did you smoke advertising clients "No PCI Compliance"?

PCI DSS is an industry standard for securing websites.

No it isn't, it's an industry standard for securing credit card information, which is a major pain in the butt for merchants which Bitcoin completely eliminates. Not having to deal with the risk of identity theft and payment fraud and all the security concerns that go with it is basically the main selling point.

[lucif]

Did you read it? Did you become compliant?

It standardize securing "sensitive data", which is CH data in case of cards, personal data in case of storing personal data and Bitcoin wallet and rpc connection in case of Bitcoin.

Btw, how Bitpay secures sensitive data?

[Foxpup]

Did you read it? Did you become compliant?

It standardize securing "sensitive data", which is CH data in case of cards, personal data in case of storing personal data and Bitcoin wallet and rpc connection in case of Bitcoin.

There is no sensitive customer data involved when using Bitcoin. A merchant's failure to secure their bitcoin wallet doesn't put their customers at risk in any way, and the PCI Council doesn't care if merchants lose their own money/data rather than their customers'. PCI compliance is totally unnecessary for a merchant that only accepts cash and bitcoins.

[lucif]

There is no sensitive customer data involved when using Bitcoin. A merchant's failure to secure their bitcoin wallet doesn't put their customers at risk in any way, and the PCI Council doesn't care if merchants lose their own money/data rather than their customers'. PCI compliance is totally unnecessary for a merchant that only accepts cash and bitcoins.

Tell this bitcoinica owner, biplomat and others hehe.

I don't view on PCI DSS as at some bearucratic thing. I see it as a good set of security recommendations to keep sensitive data secure. What kind of data is it - is a second question. Either "very bad CC cards that were developed not for Internet use" or just bitcoin wallet with 50000 coins - who cares? Only owner.

And Bitpay says to customers: My dear! Fuck the security!

[Foxpup]

Tell this bitcoinica owner, biplomat and others hehe.

I said merchants, not exchanges. Exchanges have a metric fucktonne of regulations they are (or are supposed to be) complying with.

And Bitpay says to customers: My dear! Fuck the security!

They're not saying that at all. They're saying "Fuck paying $1000 a year or more to try to secure a system that was never secure in the first place."

[lucif]

Actually, $300 a year for ASV scan

Merchants require from regular customers only quarter ASV scan provided by someone like mcafee.

And for Bitcoin community this case of forcing security standards would be good. I wrote about it somewhere here.

[notme]

Actually, $300 a year for ASV scan

Merchants require from regular customers only quarter ASV scan provided by someone like mcafee.

And for Bitcoin community this case of forcing security standards would be good. I wrote about it somewhere here.

I have a website. On my website I give customers a Bitcoin address to make payment. I keep the private key for this address on a QR code in a bank safety deposit box. How would PCI compliance benefit me or the customer in any way?

It wouldn't.  Once the uneducated learn their lessons and bitcion is done right there will be no way for a webserver breach to compromise anybodys finances.

[lucif]

As i understood, this is offline payment - not about pci. Bah, also PCI case. As you store sensitive data in third party location. But this can be called compensation case.

Btw, customers database with personal data is also sensitive info.

[franky1]

i guess butterfly havnt received the chips yet to start building asics

"we are eagerly awaiting them, as are many of you, im sure"

[Seth Otterstad]

Someone please post video clips of what is happening in the booth! 

Also, could lucif get owned any harder in this thread? 

[MPOE-PR]

Bitpay: may I ask you, what sort of marijuana did you smoke advertising clients "No PCI Compliance"?

PCI DSS is an industry standard for securing websites.

No it isn't, it's an industry standard for securing credit card information, which is a major pain in the butt for merchants which Bitcoin completely eliminates. Not having to deal with the risk of identity theft and payment fraud and all the security concerns that go with it is basically the main selling point.

Interestingly, I can see both ends of this debate.

[Micon]

Here is what butterfly labs brought to CES.

2x $100 android devices, some cases for a product they can't demonstrate, and a box of fans that they say will 1 day contain ASIC chips and they sold 100's at 30k each but haven't ever made one.

Every search for bitcoin had a butterfly labs pre order ad. 

They are still desperately grasping for cash and not able to show 1 ASIC device mining @ CES?

when I questioned Dave about butterflylabs ability to produce ASIC chips he accused me of not believing in bitcoin which sounded to me like classic scammer talk

At this point I would stay away I got that bad feeling again. ...

[MPOE-PR]

Here is what butterfly labs brought to CES.

2x $100 android devices, some cases for a product they can't demonstrate, and a box of fans that they say will 1 day contain ASIC chips and they sold 100's at 30k each but haven't ever made one.

Every search for bitcoin had a butterfly labs pre order ad. 

They are still desperately grasping for cash and not able to show 1 ASIC device mining @ CES?

when I questioned Dave about butterflylabs ability to produce ASIC chips he accused me of not believing in bitcoin which sounded to me like classic scammer talk

At this point I would stay away I got that bad feeling again. ...

I thought the color choice for highlights is nice.

[lucif]

[MPOE-PR]

Holliday earlier, now this... dudes... I'm laughing so hard.

BTC delivers.

[Micon]

Here is what butterfly labs brought to CES.

2x $100 android devices, some cases for a product they can't demonstrate, and a box of fans that they say will 1 day contain ASIC chips and they sold 100's at 30k each but haven't ever made one.

Every search for bitcoin had a butterfly labs pre order ad. 

They are still desperately grasping for cash and not able to show 1 ASIC device mining @ CES?

when I questioned Dave about butterflylabs ability to produce ASIC chips he accused me of not believing in bitcoin which sounded to me like classic scammer talk

At this point I would stay away I got that bad feeling again. ...

I thought the color choice for highlights is nice.

1)  just made the jump from iOS to Android.  I heart this Galaxy Note 2 with all the heart I have left after most of it went to my sweet daughter born 12-27-12 name annamicon she will be hot like my wife and lead the group of crypto-activists we will grow for years from these grass roots.  All nerds worldwide will follow the hot annamicon (pronounced ah-nah-mah-con) (her name is Anna Micon)

2)  I am going to go sneak back into CES tomorrow (I will video tape the entrance with my galaxy note 2, which I see nerds staring at the device when I walk by, it's the biggest / newest phablet out there and those S3 users are a little jealous of my s-pen) and just get really good high quality video and upload it to youtube of exactly what the BFL setup is and let Dave introduce it.  My channel has reasonable following, so this is good advertising for them they should put on a good show.  Unfortunately I am going to video tape 3 cases, a box of fans, 2 $100 androids, and an FPGA that may or may not be mining and definitely isn't for sale from BFL.  Dave himself will explain the setup.  I will try my absolute hardest to just give a fact-based video recording of the BFL setup and give Dave ample time should he care to explain what it is they brought to CES. 

IMO this is epic.  You guys may have done it again, this time it's gonna be Pirate X 5 or so.   A new mark may be set $25M in, box of fans out so far.

[MPOE-PR]

Here is what butterfly labs brought to CES.

2x $100 android devices, some cases for a product they can't demonstrate, and a box of fans that they say will 1 day contain ASIC chips and they sold 100's at 30k each but haven't ever made one.

Every search for bitcoin had a butterfly labs pre order ad. 

They are still desperately grasping for cash and not able to show 1 ASIC device mining @ CES?

when I questioned Dave about butterflylabs ability to produce ASIC chips he accused me of not believing in bitcoin which sounded to me like classic scammer talk

At this point I would stay away I got that bad feeling again. ...

I thought the color choice for highlights is nice.

1)  just made the jump from iOS to Android.  I heart this Galaxy Note 2 with all the heart I have left after most of it went to my sweet daughter born 12-27-12 name annamicon she will be hot like my wife and lead the group of crypto-activists we will grow for years from these grass roots.  All nerds worldwide will follow the hot annamicon (pronounced ah-nah-mah-con) (her name is Anna Micon)

2)  I am going to go sneak back into CES tomorrow (I will video tape the entrance with my galaxy note 2, which I see nerds staring at the device when I walk by, it's the biggest / newest phablet out there and those S3 users are a little jealous of my s-pen) and just get really good high quality video and upload it to youtube of exactly what the BFL setup is and let Dave introduce it.  My channel has reasonable following, so this is good advertising for them they should put on a good show.  Unfortunately I am going to video tape 3 cases, a box of fans, 2 $100 androids, and an FPGA that may or may not be mining and definitely isn't for sale from BFL.  Dave himself will explain the setup.  I will try my absolute hardest to just give a fact-based video recording of the BFL setup and give Dave ample time should he care to explain what it is they brought to CES. 

IMO this is epic.  You guys may have done it again, this time it's gonna be Pirate X 5 or so.   A new mark may be set $25M in, box of fans out so far.

I'm quoting this just in case you want to read it later.

[lucif]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ERE4uiufqE

turn on subtitles

[notme]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ERE4uiufqE

turn on subtitles

[rjbtc]

I will mine 1000 BTC, and buy kidney back! Is good investment!

[Micon]

Here is what butterfly labs brought to CES.

2x $100 android devices, some cases for a product they can't demonstrate, and a box of fans that they say will 1 day contain ASIC chips and they sold 100's at 30k each but haven't ever made one.

Every search for bitcoin had a butterfly labs pre order ad. 

They are still desperately grasping for cash and not able to show 1 ASIC device mining @ CES?

when I questioned Dave about butterflylabs ability to produce ASIC chips he accused me of not believing in bitcoin which sounded to me like classic scammer talk

At this point I would stay away I got that bad feeling again. ...

I thought the color choice for highlights is nice.

1)  just made the jump from iOS to Android.  I heart this Galaxy Note 2 with all the heart I have left after most of it went to my sweet daughter born 12-27-12 name annamicon she will be hot like my wife and lead the group of crypto-activists we will grow for years from these grass roots.  All nerds worldwide will follow the hot annamicon (pronounced ah-nah-mah-con) (her name is Anna Micon)

2)  I am going to go sneak back into CES tomorrow (I will video tape the entrance with my galaxy note 2, which I see nerds staring at the device when I walk by, it's the biggest / newest phablet out there and those S3 users are a little jealous of my s-pen) and just get really good high quality video and upload it to youtube of exactly what the BFL setup is and let Dave introduce it.  My channel has reasonable following, so this is good advertising for them they should put on a good show.  Unfortunately I am going to video tape 3 cases, a box of fans, 2 $100 androids, and an FPGA that may or may not be mining and definitely isn't for sale from BFL.  Dave himself will explain the setup.  I will try my absolute hardest to just give a fact-based video recording of the BFL setup and give Dave ample time should he care to explain what it is they brought to CES. 

IMO this is epic.  You guys may have done it again, this time it's gonna be Pirate X 5 or so.   A new mark may be set $25M in, box of fans out so far.

I'm quoting this just in case you want to read it later.

I will overdeliver on this point.

Epic CES video being edited / uploaded.

teasers:

1)  I easily once again sneak in to CES
2)  BFL guy literally hands me an actual quarter (I have the quarter) and tells me to get a clue instead of talking with me about his product on display at CES
3)  I take a very informative and well-spoken interview from the Bitpay guys about their round of funding, and congratulated them on spreading the bitcoin gospel and generally working for good.  I further explained I am starting an ecig company and will be of course using bitpay as my bitcoin processor.
4)  start filming the box of fans & $100 androids & 3 plastic cases they brought to CES (from afar, they are sort of guarding their equipment at this point and I moved to the other side to interview the Bitpay guys) and explain that BFL has been given roughly 50x the amount of funding that bitpay has just received, but in the form of pre-orders.  At this point I'm pretty sure the BFL guys called Venetian security because...
5)  I get kicked out

Epic video on the way.  BFL a total scam, they act exactly as scammers would and I will show you a perfect side-by-side comparison of how a real business would look at CES vs. a total, utter scam.

[Inaba]

Micon,

Next time you try to troll our booth, try not to be such a crappy troll.  You are transparent as hell.  Also, don't ever cuss at my employees, especially in public. Also, if you're going to make a fake badge, don't make such a crappy, fake badge to get into the place with your trailer park, white trash face plastered all over it.  

I know the quarter I gave you is probably like a weeks worth enjoyment for you, so by all means, enjoy it.  You really should use it to buy a clue, but you'l probably spend it on hookers and blow.

I can't wait to see the video you post of me telling you to take a hike.  BTW, if you try to edit it, I have an unedited video available to show what a douchebag you are.

For those of you wondering why I told him to buy a clue, he was berating one of my employees and cussing at them, in public, at our booth and making a general scene yesterday, stomping around and yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over. Yes, he was literally stomping around like a child.  I figured that was the end of it, but apparently he decided to show up again today, so I was ready for him.

[Seth Otterstad]

he was berating one of my employees and cussing at them, in public, at our booth and making a general scene yesterday, stomping around and yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over

This does sound like an epic video!

[Inaba]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the anti-semetic joke he tried to tell me about at the end.   I can't wait to see if he posts that part... Fortunately I do have video of that portion with clear audio.

Micon, the piss poor anti-semite troll!

[ElectricMucus]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the anti-semetic joke he tried to tell me about at the end.   I can't wait to see if he posts that part... Fortunately I do have video of that portion with clear audio.

Micon, the piss poor anti-semite troll!

If there is nothing other to do (like rebutting the accusations) get back to your hole plskthxbai.

[lucif]

It's just a fucking box with a fans - isn't this true?

Yes or No?

[smoothie]

It's just a fucking box with a fans - isn't this true?

Yes or No?

lol and there is the silence....

When direct questions are asked in which they don't want to answer (because it may make them look retarded) they become silent. lol

[smoothie]

LOL! You beat me to it Lucif!!  

EDIT: I LOVE THE USAGE OF TAPE!! GENIUS!!!! 

[Starlightbreaker]

yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

well, he was just stating the truth.

[smoothie]

yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

well, he was just stating the truth.

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

SHHHH lol 

"Don't say it's just a box with fans. They will never guess."

[tbcoin]

yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

well, he was just stating the truth.

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

SHHHH lol 

"Don't say it's just a box with fans. They will never guess."

I don't see the great feat of Micon, this is ridiculous, it's no secret that they have no chips

[lucif]

Well, looks like Bitpay directly connected with this sad story. And they looks like partners in crime with BFL.

When customers (see video above) will ask chargeback one by one - the lawsuit would be against bitpay. Hehe.

[smoothie]

yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

well, he was just stating the truth.

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

SHHHH lol 

"Don't say it's just a box with fans. They will never guess."

I don't see the great feat of Micon, this is ridiculous, it's no secret that they have no chips

Making a "demo" of ASICs is retarded if you have no chips. That's the point. They should only have on display their actual finished products or a prototype. Fuck, I can put fans in a box and tape a tablet to the front of the box and call it ASICs!

LOL

[Frizz23]

... stomping around and yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

Well ... it is just a f*cking box with fans. Not much different from this f*cking box with no fans  



@Inaba: Have you ever contemplated why this shit happens to you/BFL?
Hint: Treat your customers like shit - and they will treat you like shit.

[tbcoin]

yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

well, he was just stating the truth.

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

SHHHH lol 

"Don't say it's just a box with fans. They will never guess."

I don't see the great feat of Micon, this is ridiculous, it's no secret that they have no chips

Making a "demo" of ASICs is retarded if you have no chips. That's the point. They should only have on display their actual finished products or a prototype. Fuck, I can put fans in a box and tape a tablet to the front of the box and call it ASICs!

LOL

BFL has used at some point the term "demo"?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

well, he was just stating the truth.

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

SHHHH lol  

"Don't say it's just a box with fans. They will never guess."

I don't see the great feat of Micon, this is ridiculous, it's no secret that they have no chips

Making a "demo" of ASICs is retarded if you have no chips. That's the point. They should only have on display their actual finished products or a prototype. Fuck, I can put fans in a box and tape a tablet to the front of the box and call it ASICs!

LOL

To be fair to BFL, check out the weird stuff at CES2013, then come back here and express how Bitcoin should be the star of the show: http://www.businessinsider.com/weird-ces-2013-1

[lucif]

Did someone said investors panic? Did someone said ponzi?

[smoothie]

yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over.

well, he was just stating the truth.

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

SHHHH lol 

"Don't say it's just a box with fans. They will never guess."

I don't see the great feat of Micon, this is ridiculous, it's no secret that they have no chips

Making a "demo" of ASICs is retarded if you have no chips. That's the point. They should only have on display their actual finished products or a prototype. Fuck, I can put fans in a box and tape a tablet to the front of the box and call it ASICs!

LOL

BFL has used at some point the term "demo"?

Oh right they just put that box full of fans with a tablet taped to the front just as a miniature coffee table right?

What the fuck else is it? lol

"Guys let's put up a box with fans and not call it a demo...let's call it a ....?"

[Starlightbreaker]

@Inaba: Have you ever contemplated why this shit happens to you/BFL?
Hint: Treat your customers like shit - and they will treat you like shit.

gee, i thought it's common sense?

you reap what you sow.

[PuertoLibre]

"Guys let's put up a box with fans and not call it a demo...let's call it a ....?"

Non-Proof of concept?

At least they used aluminum rather than cardboard. The 30k was well spent.

[smoothie]

"Guys let's put up a box with fans and not call it a demo...let's call it a ....?"

Non-Proof of concept?

At least they used aluminum rather than cardboard. The 30k was well spent.

30k worth of aluminum, fans, and nexus's

[Seth Otterstad]

Surely BitPay, the most reputable business in bitcoin, would not want to process millions of dollars in payments to a scam company.  They must have done some kind of homework.  Have they made any comments about this?

[lucif]

Hehe. Too big to fall?

I said earlier, there is no business in Bitcoin having some sort of responsibility.

Slovens all around. Just Slovens.

[mrb]

I will overdeliver on this point.

Epic CES video being edited / uploaded.

teasers:

1)  I easily once again sneak in to CES
2)  BFL guy literally hands me an actual quarter (I have the quarter) and tells me to get a clue instead of talking with me about his product on display at CES
3)  I take a very informative and well-spoken interview from the Bitpay guys about their round of funding, and congratulated them on spreading the bitcoin gospel and generally working for good.  I further explained I am starting an ecig company and will be of course using bitpay as my bitcoin processor.
4)  start filming the box of fans & $100 androids & 3 plastic cases they brought to CES (from afar, they are sort of guarding their equipment at this point and I moved to the other side to interview the Bitpay guys) and explain that BFL has been given roughly 50x the amount of funding that bitpay has just received, but in the form of pre-orders.  At this point I'm pretty sure the BFL guys called Venetian security because...
5)  I get kicked out

Epic video on the way.  BFL a total scam, they act exactly as scammers would and I will show you a perfect side-by-side comparison of how a real business would look at CES vs. a total, utter scam.

Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real".

If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting, like every single person in my sig...

[smoothie]

I will overdeliver on this point.

Epic CES video being edited / uploaded.

teasers:

1)  I easily once again sneak in to CES
2)  BFL guy literally hands me an actual quarter (I have the quarter) and tells me to get a clue instead of talking with me about his product on display at CES
3)  I take a very informative and well-spoken interview from the Bitpay guys about their round of funding, and congratulated them on spreading the bitcoin gospel and generally working for good.  I further explained I am starting an ecig company and will be of course using bitpay as my bitcoin processor.
4)  start filming the box of fans & $100 androids & 3 plastic cases they brought to CES (from afar, they are sort of guarding their equipment at this point and I moved to the other side to interview the Bitpay guys) and explain that BFL has been given roughly 50x the amount of funding that bitpay has just received, but in the form of pre-orders.  At this point I'm pretty sure the BFL guys called Venetian security because...
5)  I get kicked out

Epic video on the way.  BFL a total scam, they act exactly as scammers would and I will show you a perfect side-by-side comparison of how a real business would look at CES vs. a total, utter scam.

Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real".

If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting...

Not all of us are gamblers. Pointing out the truth has nothing to do with gambling. LOL fail harder and try harder lol

[mrb]

Not all of us are gamblers. Pointing out the truth has nothing to do with gambling. LOL fail harder and try harder lol

By your definition, this is not gambling, since you call it "truth" and seem so certain about it.
The fact you refuse to bet, shows that you have low confidence in your claim that BFL are scammers

[lucif]

Iron argument bro! Haha

[lucif]

Hehe. BFL is not scam coz people want to believe... in duck tales (Who-hoo!)... And bet money on that.

You are the best )

[smoothie]

Not all of us are gamblers. Pointing out the truth has nothing to do with gambling. LOL fail harder and try harder lol

By your definition, this is not gambling, since you call it "truth"
The fact you too refuse to bet, shows that you don't believe your own claim that BFL are scammers 

Where did I ever say BFL are scammers? lol get your facts straight buddy.

Where did I define "gambling"? Once again fail harder and try harder LOL!

I refuse to bet because that is irrelevant. I don't need to bet to be convinced and help convince others that BFL is full of shit. LOL

[mrb]

Where did I ever say BFL are scammers? lol get your facts straight buddy.

Here:

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

[smoothie]

Where did I ever say BFL are scammers? lol get your facts straight buddy.

Here:

That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).

FOR THE SECOND TIME, Where does it say that I said BFL are scammers?

I said scammers...not BFL dipshit lol. Fail harder bro!  

Wow you fail at simple logic. Talking about scammers and BFL in the same paragraph doesn't mean I said BFL are scammers.

[lucif]

Bitpay: Do you realize in what boiling water did you put your balls deep?

[mrb]

FOR THE SECOND TIME, Where does it say that I said BFL are scammers?

I said scammers...not BFL dipshit lol. Fail harder bro!  

Wow you fail at simple logic. Talking about scammers and BFL in the same paragraph doesn't mean I said BFL are scammers.

Yes it does. This is called "context".

Example: if I write "This man is smoothie. I dislike morons." I never say "smoothie is a moron", but I imply it by context.

If not, why did you write the sentence? Who are you referring to by "scammers"? You need to learn to communicate more clearly.

[smoothie]

FOR THE SECOND TIME, Where does it say that I said BFL are scammers?

I said scammers...not BFL dipshit lol. Fail harder bro!  

Wow you fail at simple logic. Talking about scammers and BFL in the same paragraph doesn't mean I said BFL are scammers.

Yes it does. This is called "context".

If not, why did you write the sentence? Who are you referring to by "scammers"? You need to learn to communicate more clearly.

It's called implication.

You claimed I said that "BFL are scammers".

I never said that. Perhaps I implied it.

I was referring to ALL scammers when I said "scammers". Seriously you need to learn to follow more closely and make sure what you claim is in fact 100% true and not what you want to be true.

No I've said it in the "context" the way i wanted it. What you interpret it as is your fucking problem.

So no, you need to ask questions before talking/assuming things, and not that I need to communicate more clearly.

If you wanted to know what I meant, just ask. LOL

you failed so hard on this one buddy lol 

[mrb]

Perhaps I implied it.

Point demonstrated.

[smoothie]

Perhaps I implied it.

Point demonstrated.

LOL perhaps = maybe. Doesn't mean I did. Point not demonstrated.

Change subject: How much do you have in preorders with BFL? lol  

[lucif]

He sold his kidney

[smoothie]

He sold his kidney

And took out a credit loan at 45% apr to buy asic mini rigs lol

[mrb]

I don't need to bet to [...] help convince others that BFL is full of shit. LOL

Actually, yes. Your criticism of BFL completely fails to convince me. So, yes you would need to bet in order for me to take you seriously.

[smoothie]

I don't need to bet to [...] help convince others that BFL is full of shit. LOL

Actually, yes. Your criticism of BFL completely fails to convince me. So, yes you would need to bet in order for me to take you seriously.

So let's do this game again:

Where did I ever say that I care if you take me seriously?

It's just funny to see yourself stumble all over your claims about things that really didn't happen as you claimed it has.

 

Let's play again!

Go for it buddy. Bet your bitcoins! See if I care! lol

[dstruct2k]

I don't need to bet to [...] help convince others that BFL is full of shit. LOL

Actually, yes. Your criticism of BFL completely fails to convince me. So, yes you would need to bet in order for me to take you seriously.

There's something seriously wrong with you if you think people MUST put money on the line just to prove that they stand behind what they believe to be true. Go troll some other thread.

[smoothie]

I don't need to bet to [...] help convince others that BFL is full of shit. LOL

Actually, yes. Your criticism of BFL completely fails to convince me. So, yes you would need to bet in order for me to take you seriously.

There's something seriously wrong with you if you think people MUST put money on the line just to prove that they stand behind what they believe to be true. Go troll some other thread.

+1 He is "hedging" because of his funds are tied up with BFL preorders LOL!

 

[mrb]

Where did I ever say that I care if you take me seriously?

Nowhere. I don't care that you don't care. I just stated you would need to bet to convince me. That is all.

[smoothie]

Where did I ever say that I care if you take me seriously?

Nowhere. I don't care that you don't care. I just stated you would need to bet to convince me. That is all.

lol right. And I care to convince you because? Oh right I don't care to.

Let's play again! This is fun! 

[mrb]

+1 He is "hedging" because of his funds are tied up with BFL preorders LOL!

No, "hedging" would be me betting against BFL.

[smoothie]

+1 He is "hedging" because of his funds are tied up with BFL preorders LOL!

No, "hedging" would be me betting against BFL.

That's why i put it in quotes so I could define anyway I wish. Like for example it is the opposite of what you took it to mean.

Try to keep up ok? LOL

[smoothie]

@MRB how much did you invest in BFL preorders?

$10k? $20k? $50k?

 

[lucif]

This is ALL not done like that!

There are a crowdfinding services like kickstarter, which verifies business plan, company info, etc, etc!

Company must gather funds for asic technology research there! For research! Not for selling non existent things!

And this is $30.000.000 scam.

[greyhawk]

I don't need to bet to [...] help convince others that BFL is full of shit. LOL

Actually, yes. Your criticism of BFL completely fails to convince me. So, yes you would need to bet in order for me to take you seriously.

Your obsession with bets is disturbing. Please get help before you end up like Lurk.

[mrb]

That's why i put it in quotes so I could define anyway I wish. Like for example it is the opposite of what you took it to mean.

You don't change the definition of a word by quoting it. Way to be misunderstood... 2nd time I say it: you need to learn to communicate more clearly, if you want to be understood.

[lucif]

Meet Bitpay Business Solutions and Butterfly Labs!

We received $500k investments! BFL received $30000000 investments through us!

We do serious business!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niaMCTPDNeo

[naima53]

Sorry for my english. (translation). Does anyone know the answer to reliably one of my question?
-Which name of the bank BFL receives investor funds and payment to contractors?What is the reputation of the bank? It is offshore? (this information should be made public except for the information on contractors)
-Which insurance company insured domestic investment risks the company BFL? Or not insured? (may be classified information)
-Which published a summary (detailed) information for investors. There must have be described by two positions higher description of the risks. (I do not know how to translate)
-Where in the published reports with the exact dates of the development for investors(it should be in public, perhaps without giving names of counterparties (eg, factory))(For example, 12.01.2011 - design is complete, 10/08/2012 - issued an order for the production of test batch to the factory ..)
-At what place are published the current financial performance of the company BFL?(financial statements)

If not half the answer - it is definitely scam.

[Micon]

Micon,

Next time you try to troll our booth, try not to be such a crappy troll.  You are transparent as hell.  Also, don't ever cuss at my employees, especially in public. Also, if you're going to make a fake badge, don't make such a crappy, fake badge to get into the place with your trailer park, white trash face plastered all over it.  

I know the quarter I gave you is probably like a weeks worth enjoyment for you, so by all means, enjoy it.  You really should use it to buy a clue, but you'l probably spend it on hookers and blow.

I can't wait to see the video you post of me telling you to take a hike.  BTW, if you try to edit it, I have an unedited video available to show what a douchebag you are.

For those of you wondering why I told him to buy a clue, he was berating one of my employees and cussing at them, in public, at our booth and making a general scene yesterday, stomping around and yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over. Yes, he was literally stomping around like a child.  I figured that was the end of it, but apparently he decided to show up again today, so I was ready for him.

Hello rude human that gave me a quarter and is running a scam:

1) that fake, crappy badge has been sneaking me into everywhere in Vegas for ~ 5 years.  I have snuck into countless conventions of every sort with it.  Had you not called security and instead engaged me in fact-based conversation about your device that you brought to CES, I would have made it the full 5 extra minutes I intended to attend the convention on Thursday.  Oh btw I'll be back tomorrow with more people and more cameras.  I'll have a legitimate press badge too.  Whatcha gonna do then when I film your box of fans connected to 2x $100 android devices sitting next to 3 plastic cases with you holding $25M in pre-orders you can't ship?

2)  Don't take my word for it, just watch the entire interaction and judge for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y



the juicy part is ~ 2:10 in, and this is 13 minute video because I was genuinely interested in Bitpay, which as most of us heard got the headshot round of funding ($510k) and as most of us understand is an amazing way for a small business to start accepting bitcoin tomorrow - in essence, they are spreading the gospel and making a nice business charging a fair price - an amazing company working for good that I so happy is receiving attention and money.  BFL by contrast has raised by this writer's estimation $25M - a full 50x what Bitpay just raised - but BFL did it by taking pre-orders on a device they could not produce or show was working at CES, and bitpay had to give up equity. 

As most of you will watch in this video, BFL knows I'm a skeptic and I am recording and ask to see their device.  If they had real technology, why not show the skeptic what you have?  Helping Freemoney run SealsWithClubs, I have skeptics approach me all the time.  I answer every question they have about bitcoin or Seals software, and show them as completely and honestly every part of every question they have.  When I asked BFL what this machine was they have on display at CES, the guy gives me a quarter and treats be very rudely.  This is classic scammer actions.  When questioned for real, scammers deflect, make a scene, or just call you stupid.  This guy did all 3.  Writing is on the wall.

The Micon verdict is in.  Butterfly Labs is a total scam.  The entire stored value in bitcoin is ~ $140M at this point.  BFL has collected roughly 20% of the total stored value of bitcoin and all they brought to CES is a box of fans, 2x $100 androids, 3 plastic cases, and an FPGA miner that wasn't mining when Dave showed it to me and the guy today just insulted me and gave me a quarter when I asked about it.

Oh and don't keep asking BFL about a fact-based report of the equipment they brought to CES - you will be met with insults to your intelligence.

[Micon]

I will overdeliver on this point.

Epic CES video being edited / uploaded.

teasers:

1)  I easily once again sneak in to CES
2)  BFL guy literally hands me an actual quarter (I have the quarter) and tells me to get a clue instead of talking with me about his product on display at CES
3)  I take a very informative and well-spoken interview from the Bitpay guys about their round of funding, and congratulated them on spreading the bitcoin gospel and generally working for good.  I further explained I am starting an ecig company and will be of course using bitpay as my bitcoin processor.
4)  start filming the box of fans & $100 androids & 3 plastic cases they brought to CES (from afar, they are sort of guarding their equipment at this point and I moved to the other side to interview the Bitpay guys) and explain that BFL has been given roughly 50x the amount of funding that bitpay has just received, but in the form of pre-orders.  At this point I'm pretty sure the BFL guys called Venetian security because...
5)  I get kicked out

Epic video on the way.  BFL a total scam, they act exactly as scammers would and I will show you a perfect side-by-side comparison of how a real business would look at CES vs. a total, utter scam.

Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real".

If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting, like every single person in my sig...

I am happy to make an escrow-ed wager on this matter.  I am not keen on using the betsofbitcoin system, but I am happy to escrow a 10 coin wager on the matter with you personally.  We can find a mutually agreeable escrow and terms of the wager.  I am more than willing to bet the scam side.  I'm thinking something like all pre-orders not shipped by end of 2013?  I'll take the don't on that 1 for sure.

[Frizz23]

The fact you refuse to bet, shows that you have low confidence in your claim that BFL are scammers

BFL are not scammers. They are just disorganized airheads that try to run a business. And got/get scammed by some Asian benefactors^*).

------------------
^*)(c) bASIC/Tom

[Micon]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the anti-semetic joke he tried to tell me about at the end.   I can't wait to see if he posts that part... Fortunately I do have video of that portion with clear audio.

Micon, the piss poor anti-semite troll!

1)  You have taken $25,000,000 by my estimation of bitcoin community money with the promise to ship something you cannot display at CES 2013.  Your deflection of my "Jewish Football game joke" is as transparent as it is desperate.

2)  Both of my parents are Jewish.  I am an atheist and only believe in science, but most humans would classify me as Jewish, giving me full right to make the joke and making you look totally foolish.

3)  I was spending time with my mother, father, wife, and 2 week old daughter after you so rudely handed me fiat and got me kicked out of CES today.  Don't worry, the full video in it's unedited format is right here, and I have it cued to where you make an ass of yourself:

http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m19s

Take a watch at the 2nd part of the interview, when I ask a legitimate bitcoin-facing business about their functions, and notice the difference.  Did they think I was stomping around the booth yelling and trolling?   Seems hat only you have made that report, and I have an extremely valid point BFL refuses to even answer:

Give us a fact-based account of the equipment you brought and are displaying at CES.

[greyhawk]

I like how you don't stop talking for the whole video and no one gets more than 3 words in edgewise. 

[lucif]

Micon: respect!

Die BFL, Die! Kill it with fire!

[lucif]

So looks like Bitpay participated in a BFL crime, money laundering and tax evasion? Is it true?

[tbcoin]

So looks like Bitpay participated in a BFL crime, money laundering and tax evasion? Is it true?

[lucif]

They are about to process gambling payments.

MONEY LAUNDERING
TAXES EVASION
BREAKING MAJOR FEDERAL LAWS

This is electric chair.

[lucif]

They are participated in gathering $25M from Bitcoin community for BFL scam.

What else do they process? Child porn? Incest? Rape? Who knows? Bitcoin allows everything, isn't it?

[nelisky]

They are participated in gathering $25M from Bitcoin community for BFL scam.

What else do they process? Child porn? Incest? Rape? Who knows? Bitcoin allows everything, isn't it?

Zealot much? Is incest (assuming consented by all involved) really at par with rape and child porn? They also speak of freedom, BURN THE MFs!

[lucif]

Incest is forbidden for processing by VISA and MC. I bet they receive a lot of offerings from interesting adult content owners.

[mrb]

Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real".

If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting, like every single person in my sig...

I am happy to make an escrow-ed wager on this matter.  I am not keen on using the betsofbitcoin system, but I am happy to escrow a 10 coin wager on the matter with you personally.  We can find a mutually agreeable escrow and terms of the wager.  I am more than willing to bet the scam side.  I'm thinking something like all pre-orders not shipped by end of 2013?  I'll take the don't on that 1 for sure.

Thank you! I agree with a personal escrowed bet of 10 BTC. This makes you the first BFL critic who I regard highly, unlike others on the forums... I will PM you to arrange the details.

[mrb]

Micon: actually, since you are up for it, can we raise the stakes? 100 BTC? 250 BTC? 1000 BTC? How high can you go?

[franky1]

BFL are not scammers.proven to be scammers beyond reasonable doubt They are just disorganized airheads that try to run a business. And got/get scammed by some Asian benefactors^*).

i edited the quote above to sound more realistic to actual situation. but a great quote even in its original form.

i love studying human behaviour if you ever watch the TV series 'lie to me' you'll understand what i mean. That 2 minute interaction with josh on the video revealed alot.
the smile he does when handing over the quarter. that's not a smile of a smart individual who has whit and charm. that is the smile you do after this situation.

day one you get insulted but cant think of a witty reply. that night you think to yourself  i wish i had something smart to have said when that happens that sounds eloquent and beautiful. you plan it in your head. you start getting excited just thinking about using your carefully scripted reply, you imagine their reaction. You even dream about using it and you get fixated over the scripts beauty.

day two. the situation comes up when you get to use that script. you say it, and now you smile because you think you sound smart for the first time. that is the smile of victory. not charm. victorious that you can yet again avoid a proper question, and ontop make it sound smart.

its the same smile someone does when they have a date with a hott girl and plan before the date, something witty and funny to say to get the girl warming to you. and when said, you smile in victory and achievement.

now onto other things.
if only samsung went to the CES with a new gesture sensing technology TV's, they had a big 50" TV to show off.. but all that was showing was a blank screen. people question it the reply they get is: " we don't have any working TV's with this new technology, we have not tested a working finalised product. but here's a quarter, now go buy yourself a clue. "
even samsung customers would be hating samsung by now.

and at best the customers would say WTF you even doing here if you don't even have a working demo.

[Micon]

I like how you don't stop talking for the whole video and no one gets more than 3 words in edgewise. 

I am a total ADD super-mutlitasker crazy inventor man.  I know many of my shortcomings and one is certainly that I don't let others talk enough.  I am very guilty of this in my podcast and need to work on it.

That being said, this fucking scammer company has me once again really pissed off.  In my life, the most regret I ever feel is for times when I stayed silent when I should have stood up and said something.  Like when you see a stranger getting fucked with in some way and just walk by because it's not you, and they clearly need help.  

I promised myself some time ago that I would be the guy that does something, stands up, takes some heat if he has to, and bring attention to a major injustice that is happening with most of the other humans, for their various reasons, staying silent when they deep down feel the same way.  Remember I have a very good scam-detection radar and a very good record on these boards.

To me, to a poker player, I get this extremely scam vibe after meeting the 2 BFL guys in person.  Dave, the first day, when alone, had classic scam-comebacks to all my probing.  First, when he thought I was a friendly, I said "Man, you guys are on ever search engine result, every paid advertising venue for bitcoin related searches comes up with a BFL pre-order advertisement.  You must have raised $25+M!"    Dave replied  "uh.. Yeah!  We've done very well!"  lolz they think they have done well already, i.e. they already have most of the money they are going to collect.

Once I pointed out the obvious with this picture from my Galaxy Note 2 (fucking amazing device)



and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip I knew when I walked in they wouldn't show off the devices and let someone inventory the 7 items or photograph them closely with the whatever megapixel camera I'm carrying around in this phablet.  

BFL brought a box of fans + 3 cases + 2 Androids + 1 FPGA miner that my or may not work.  This is fact.  I come to film this, they call CES security. Maybe another reporter can go and photograph and film the equipment tomorrow during the last day of CES and ask them why they bothered to bring the box of fans.

[mrb]

Micon: actually let's arrange the details publicly: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.0

[Micon]

Micon: actually, since you are up for it, can we raise the stakes? 100 BTC? 250 BTC? 1000 BTC? How high can you go?

Let's discuss terms privately then make a new thread with the bet publicly, announce the exact terms and the escrow.  Depending on the terms of the wager I may be willing to go very high.  We will need a very solid escrow, like Vorhees or any bitpay guys, or any bitinstant guys are the first that come to mind.  I am totally down to gamble and if you have that much coin and want to fire on BFL being real, I can talk to some of my gambling friends that are somewhat familiar with BTC (some play on Seals, some knew about my bet with Matt when he defaulted, some just like to bet on non-standard things like this) and my side can likely raise whatever you wanna bet if we believe the terms are favorable enough.   Let's talk PM / skype / figure it out.  We can also place a smaller bet now / escrow it / then talk larger.

[Micon]

Micon: actually let's arrange the details publicly: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.0

+1 / good idea

I have a 13 day old daughter but I promise to give this attention in the next few days and we will wager.  I'm very google-able in that I wager large amounts all the time.  You can prove a large wallet or something?

[mrb]

Micon: actually let's arrange the details publicly: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.0

+1 / good idea

I have a 13 day old daughter but I promise to give this attention in the next few days and we will wager.  I'm very google-able in that I wager large amounts all the time.  You can prove a large wallet or something?

Congrats to new dad!

Yes, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.msg1447806#msg1447806
(Let's move out of this thread.)

[Ente]

Too bad the whole thread turned into a "BFL-Scam?" discussion.
This is a valid discussion in itself, but I was hoping to hear more about CES, BitPay and resonance..

Ente

[Frizz23]

Too bad the whole thread turned into a "BFL-Scam?" discussion.
This is a valid discussion in itself, ...

There was a poll/discussion some time ago - but the mods thought it's off-topic:

[POLL] Should BFL get a Scammer tag?

[Micon]

Also, don't ever cuss at my employees, especially in public.

Here is my unedited video of our interaction cued to the point where I ask you to show me your hardware then you childishly say:

"I can't hear you over your fucking stupidity"

and then proceed to hand me a quarter:

http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m40s

[Micon]

Too bad the whole thread turned into a "BFL-Scam?" discussion.
This is a valid discussion in itself, but I was hoping to hear more about CES, BitPay and resonance..

Ente

In addition to the shocking BFL confrontation, this 13-minute video mostly focuses on Bitpay and the boys are obviously doing the good work and deserve their round of funding IMO.

To better achieve the goal of "let's bring the real bitcoin discussion to CES, i.e. Bitpay" then don't share a booth with an obvious scammer.

[MrTeal]

Where on Earth are people getting $25M and $30M in preorders from? There's absolutely nothing indicating that they've sold anything close to that.

[the_thing]

Way to go, Josh. You're one rude motherfucker and probably the worst PR person to ever work in business (second one being Michael O'Leary who is at least funny). At least you drove off more potential victims.

Also this

Where on Earth are people getting $25M and $30M in preorders from? There's absolutely nothing indicating that they've sold anything close to that.

I wonder how much they've really got in preorders.

[Micon]

Wanna punish Josh?   hit me with the upvote:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/16dgke/i_go_to_ces_2013_to_see_what_butterfly_labs/

[niko]

I wonder when Bitcoin-facing businesses, BFL included, will realize that conferences, trade shows, and such are an opportunity to introduce Bitcoin to the uninitiated, instead of wasting time preaching to the choir or staging incestoid incidents related to issues only bitcoiners understand. Specifically, BFL should have made their working FPGA the centerpiece, instead of the highly controversial, and in fact sensitive, topic of ASICs. Non-bitcoiners really don't give a damn, and we all just look stupid in front of them. Bitcoin looks stupid. Inaba and Micon are actually on the same team - the team that has been doing damage, no matter what their intentions are. I hope they realize this, and finally focus properly when it comes to public events. Public events - this forum included.

[greyhawk]

It could be worse. Imagine Amir Taaki being at that booth.

[giszmo]

Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real".

If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting, like every single person in my sig...

I, too like to check on betsofbitco.in to see the latest estimates of ASIC and other events but I don't need to bet myself to use it as an indicator. Those invested in BFL surely are the most interested betters in this bet and maybe even BFL team members take side in an attempt to drive trust but no matter what, 60% confidence in a business not being a scam is a terrible standing. They lack PR big time and the only investments in PR are adwords to buy more? Seriously?
I don't have an opinion on whether they are scammers or not apart from that bet and "not shipping" might just as well include having produced chips that cost all the money but didn't work but what's the point in going to the CES when it produces 100% negative news? No announcement¹ that would justify going there and what on earth are they selling to the people that come to the boot without a clue about bitcoin? Is there any video of their average Joe pitch?
_{¹Ok, as an android developer, the android miner got me a little interested but I have no clue how hard it is. Maybe a $2k job, maybe a $20k job.}

[Inaba]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip I knew when I walked in they wouldn't show off the devices and let someone inventory the 7 items or photograph them closely with the whatever megapixel camera I'm carrying around in this phablet.  

BFL brought a box of fans + 3 cases + 2 Androids + 1 FPGA miner that my or may not work.  This is fact.  I come to film this, they call CES security. Maybe another reporter can go and photograph and film the equipment tomorrow during the last day of CES and ask them why they bothered to bring the box of fans.

Micon, you do realize that hundreds of people have taken high resolution photos with real cameras of our equipment this week.  Up close and personal.  You would have been welcome to as well if you were not stomping around, twitching and cussing at the booth people, fake pass and all.  Also, you fail to note that I made absolutely no attempt to stop you from filming anything and you could, in fact, have filmed the equipment up close if you so chose.  But you to try to be cute and "interview" me the same way you "interviewed" Dave, which I have no doubt would have resulted in you stomping around and cussing at people again.

If you really want photos, I suspect you can contact the Bitclocker folks for some.  They came by and were very friendly and interesting to talk to.  I even disassembled the minirig for them to snap pictures of the inside of the "box of fans."  They took a number of up close pictures of both the singles and the minirig... I'm sure they can supply you with "megapixel" quality shots equivalent to your "totally awesome" Galaxy Note 2.

But you were right about one thing... I do regret that encounter.  I still can't get the smell of your BO out of my nose, ugh.

[lucif]

Yeah! I got this closeup photo! Nice one!

[mccorvic]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[MrTeal]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip I knew when I walked in they wouldn't show off the devices and let someone inventory the 7 items or photograph them closely with the whatever megapixel camera I'm carrying around in this phablet.  

BFL brought a box of fans + 3 cases + 2 Androids + 1 FPGA miner that my or may not work.  This is fact.  I come to film this, they call CES security. Maybe another reporter can go and photograph and film the equipment tomorrow during the last day of CES and ask them why they bothered to bring the box of fans.

Micon, you do realize that hundreds of people have taken high resolution photos with real cameras of our equipment this week.  Up close and personal.  You would have been welcome to as well if you were not stomping around, twitching and cussing at the booth people, fake pass and all.  Also, you fail to note that I made absolutely no attempt to stop you from filming anything and you could, in fact, have filmed the equipment up close if you so chose.  But you to try to be cute and "interview" me the same way you "interviewed" Dave, which I have no doubt would have resulted in you stomping around and cussing at people again.

If you really want photos, I suspect you can contact the Bitclocker folks for some.  They came by and were very friendly and interesting to talk to.  I even disassembled the minirig for them to snap pictures of the inside of the "box of fans."  They took a number of up close pictures of both the singles and the minirig... I'm sure they can supply you with "megapixel" quality shots equivalent to your "totally awesome" Galaxy Note 2.

But you were right about one thing... I do regret that encounter.  I still can't get the smell of your BO out of my nose, ugh.

Bitclockers is still around? I would have thought they'd be dumped and abandoned as miners went to honest pools that don't steal from them.

[smoothie]

That's why i put it in quotes so I could define anyway I wish. Like for example it is the opposite of what you took it to mean.

You don't change the definition of a word by quoting it. Way to be misunderstood... 2nd time I say it: you need to learn to communicate more clearly, if you want to be understood.

I can change the definition to mean what I want it to. Whether or not you GET IT does not matter to me. You have no control over what I choose to have a word mean or not. Nor do I care if you understand me or not in a clear manner. You actually think that I CARE IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND ME.

You fail hard. So hard that you resort to betting and insisting that people put money on the line because of what I believe or not to be true.

You make tons of assumptions.

Keep failing hard.

AGAIN I ASK: HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE IN BFL PREORDERS? OH RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE EMBARRASSED TO SHARE THAT INFO LOL!!!

 

[lucif]

I'll just leave it here. Image is clickable.

[smoothie]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip I knew when I walked in they wouldn't show off the devices and let someone inventory the 7 items or photograph them closely with the whatever megapixel camera I'm carrying around in this phablet.  

BFL brought a box of fans + 3 cases + 2 Androids + 1 FPGA miner that my or may not work.  This is fact.  I come to film this, they call CES security. Maybe another reporter can go and photograph and film the equipment tomorrow during the last day of CES and ask them why they bothered to bring the box of fans.

Micon, you do realize that hundreds of people have taken high resolution photos with real cameras of our equipment this week.  Up close and personal.  You would have been welcome to as well if you were not stomping around, twitching and cussing at the booth people, fake pass and all.  Also, you fail to note that I made absolutely no attempt to stop you from filming anything and you could, in fact, have filmed the equipment up close if you so chose.  But you to try to be cute and "interview" me the same way you "interviewed" Dave, which I have no doubt would have resulted in you stomping around and cussing at people again.

If you really want photos, I suspect you can contact the Bitclocker folks for some.  They came by and were very friendly and interesting to talk to.  I even disassembled the minirig for them to snap pictures of the inside of the "box of fans."  They took a number of up close pictures of both the singles and the minirig... I'm sure they can supply you with "megapixel" quality shots equivalent to your "totally awesome" Galaxy Note 2.

But you were right about one thing... I do regret that encounter.  I still can't get the smell of your BO out of my nose, ugh.

Hey Josh,

You have to resort to kindergarten type insults to deflect attention concerning your NONEXISTENT ASIC devices that are now at least 70 days late on delivery?

You fail so hard! lol

Go buy a fucking clue. 

[lucif]

If Josh have nothing to say to investors, he will probably will have to something to say to SEC

[Frizz23]

Micon, you do realize that hundreds of people have taken high resolution photos with real cameras of our equipment this week.

What's the point of taking pictures of empty boxes?

You said yourself in an interview that you posted on your website :

David Perry: "So this is just a case ... you don't actually have ASICs ready?
Josh: "Um... right ... but we are eagerly awaiting them as everybody else I'm sure ..."

[the_thing]

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

[Micon]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip I knew when I walked in they wouldn't show off the devices and let someone inventory the 7 items or photograph them closely with the whatever megapixel camera I'm carrying around in this phablet.  

BFL brought a box of fans + 3 cases + 2 Androids + 1 FPGA miner that my or may not work.  This is fact.  I come to film this, they call CES security. Maybe another reporter can go and photograph and film the equipment tomorrow during the last day of CES and ask them why they bothered to bring the box of fans.

Micon, you do realize that hundreds of people have taken high resolution photos with real cameras of our equipment this week.  Up close and personal.  You would have been welcome to as well if you were not stomping around, twitching and cussing at the booth people, fake pass and all.  Also, you fail to note that I made absolutely no attempt to stop you from filming anything and you could, in fact, have filmed the equipment up close if you so chose.  But you to try to be cute and "interview" me the same way you "interviewed" Dave, which I have no doubt would have resulted in you stomping around and cussing at people again.

If you really want photos, I suspect you can contact the Bitclocker folks for some.  They came by and were very friendly and interesting to talk to.  I even disassembled the minirig for them to snap pictures of the inside of the "box of fans."  They took a number of up close pictures of both the singles and the minirig... I'm sure they can supply you with "megapixel" quality shots equivalent to your "totally awesome" Galaxy Note 2.

But you were right about one thing... I do regret that encounter.  I still can't get the smell of your BO out of my nose, ugh.

1)  The general hubris you display both IRL and on these forums will be your downfall.

2)  You claim a few time I was "Stomping around" and "cussing" at the Bitpay booth.  Here is a cued video of you cussing at me:  http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m40s  if you would like more context, rewind a bit:  http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m19s  

3) I saw Dave recording me while I was recording you.  You say many times I was the one stomping around and cussing go ahead and post your unedited video as I have.  Let's take a look and see who is lying.

4)  My galaxy Note 2 is > than both your $100 Androids that you brought to CES.  Making fun of the device, arguable the hottest Android phone out there, makes you look even more foolish than when you handed me a quarter at CES.

5)  The cold, hard truth stares you in the face, and you will never reply publicly to the fact-based account of the equipment you brought to CES:

3x plastic cases
1 Box of fans
1 FPGA miner, working condition unknown
2x ~$100 Androids

obviously you wont' be responding to #5.

[Frizz23]

Oh get a tape measure out and just finish the pissing content already...

One of you will be saying "I told you so" in the near future. The other will slink off having been ridiculed by the entire Bitcoin community.
Until that point, chill the hell out...

Go back to BFL lala land forums and shut the f*uck up.

[Dansker]

This thread is starting to sound like an online religious debate. And perhaps it is.

[smoothie]

Josh has selective responses. Can't admit what the truth is. Next week will be more excuses why the ASIC chips are delayed.

Those who preordered should cancel, get a refund, and just buy bitcoins that is much more productive investing.

[MPOE-PR]

For those of you wondering why I told him to buy a clue, he was berating one of my employees and cussing at them, in public, at our booth and making a general scene yesterday, stomping around and yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over. Yes, he was literally stomping around like a child.  I figured that was the end of it, but apparently he decided to show up again today, so I was ready for him.

Of course I am not going to speak about the financials of BFL, but anyone with even a modicum of common sense would understand that 20k Bitcoins while not quite a trivial amount, is a tiny fraction.

So, are you disputing the part where your scam wasted a lot of people's BTC and trying to convince us it really is very little, or are you actually denying your product at the CES is a box of fans?

[mccorvic]

This thread is starting to sound like an online religious debate. And perhaps it is.

I think it's more that the conspiracy theorists are just really, really pumped that one of their conspiracies may just possibly for once prove to be true!

I, on the other hand, wish people would just express their doubts and chill out. They ain't doin' nobodies no favors flipping out and ranting like a crazy person.

[Frizz23]

I've already requested Josh's video on the BFL forums.

He won't publish it. All you get from Josh are weasel comments & excuses & blatant lies.

[lucif]

TCR Submitted Successfully - Reference Number: TCR1357902718572

Please refer to this number for futher correspondence with SEC officer regarding Butterfly Labs Inc case.

[Akka]

Could this BFL ASIC discussion be moved into one of the 100 Threads that are already there?

I hoped to read some informations about how the CES did here, but instead...

I just imagine, I have encounterd Bitcoin on the CES for the first Time, thought hey this sounds cool, find this forum and hey, there is even a discussion about the CES.

Than its all about a Fansinabox device. I would immediately leave.

Thanks Guys

[MPOE-PR]

I will overdeliver on this point.

Epic CES video being edited / uploaded.

teasers:

1)  I easily once again sneak in to CES
2)  BFL guy literally hands me an actual quarter (I have the quarter) and tells me to get a clue instead of talking with me about his product on display at CES
3)  I take a very informative and well-spoken interview from the Bitpay guys about their round of funding, and congratulated them on spreading the bitcoin gospel and generally working for good.  I further explained I am starting an ecig company and will be of course using bitpay as my bitcoin processor.
4)  start filming the box of fans & $100 androids & 3 plastic cases they brought to CES (from afar, they are sort of guarding their equipment at this point and I moved to the other side to interview the Bitpay guys) and explain that BFL has been given roughly 50x the amount of funding that bitpay has just received, but in the form of pre-orders.  At this point I'm pretty sure the BFL guys called Venetian security because...
5)  I get kicked out

Epic video on the way.  BFL a total scam, they act exactly as scammers would and I will show you a perfect side-by-side comparison of how a real business would look at CES vs. a total, utter scam.

Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real".

If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting, like every single person in my sig...

Actually, at this point the reasonable thing is to make a bet on the actual site where bitcoin bets happen: BitBet.

Unlike the dubious venue the OP linked, the betting here is a little* richer. Also, you can use your own BTC addy as a refcode, just as I have.

So far the odds are something like 750 : 1 against BFL. Need more proof than that?

*For any value of a little that's much larger than a lot.

@Micon: go ahead.

[nathanrees19]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip

Why on earth would they have one chip? If they had chips at all, they would have thousands, and they would post photos of them being soldered on to PCBs and be shipping them. You know, they did say in advance that they wouldn't have hashing units, so you should have already known this, but I guess I can forgive you for not bothering to read their forums.

[nathanrees19]

Actually, at this point the reasonable thing is to make a bet on the actual site where bitcoin bets happen: BitBet.

Unlike the dubious venue the OP linked, the betting here is a little* richer. Also, you can use your own BTC addy as a refcode, just as I have.

So far the odds are something like 750 : 1 against BFL. Need more proof than that?

*For any value of a little that's much larger than a lot.

@Micon: go ahead.

I see there's a 10% error margin. That means that BFL could deliver a fully working ASIC unit doing 60GH/s but if it uses 67W instead of their claimed 60W (but still less than every competitor) then the answer still comes out as no. However, it doesn't actually say if "advertised spec" refers to the hashrate or to everything...

[lucif]

Could this BFL ASIC discussion be moved into one of the 100 Threads that are already there?

I hoped to read some informations about how the CES did here, but instead...

I just imagine, I have encounterd Bitcoin on the CES for the first Time, thought hey this sounds cool, find this forum and hey, there is even a discussion about the CES.

Than its all about a Fansinabox device. I would immediately leave.

Thanks Guys

No, Bitpay are participants in this $30M scam. All money went through them.

[SgtSpike]

TCR Submitted Successfully - Reference Number: TCR1357902718572

Please refer to this number for futher correspondence with SEC officer regarding Butterfly Labs Inc case.

Did you ask for a refund of the miner(s) that you ordered?  Did BFL comply with the request?  If so, what is it you are filing a complaint about, exactly?

[nathanrees19]

No, Bitpay are participants in this $30M scam. All money went through them.

Delayed shipping == scam ??

[Akka]

Could this BFL ASIC discussion be moved into one of the 100 Threads that are already there?

I hoped to read some informations about how the CES did here, but instead...

I just imagine, I have encounterd Bitcoin on the CES for the first Time, thought hey this sounds cool, find this forum and hey, there is even a discussion about the CES.

Than its all about a Fansinabox device. I would immediately leave.

Thanks Guys

No, Bitpay are participants in this $30M scam. All money went through them.

That's the same arguing as to make PayPal responsible for any scam bought through them.

[lucif]

All victims of BFL scam should contact SEC officers with reference to mentioned TCR request.

[mccorvic]

Everyone should probably just start ignoring/stop responding to lucif & co.

This was such a great thread until people allowed them to derail it.  If BFL doesn't deliver it doesn't deliver and we go from there. Allowing them to just rant and feed off your tears helps no one.

BTW: I don't have any ASIC pre-ordered from anyone nor do I plan to.

[Akka]

Everyone should probably just start ignoring/stop responding to lucif & co.

This was such a great thread until people allowed them to derail it.  If BFL doesn't deliver it doesn't deliver and we go from there. Allowing them to just rant and feed off your tears helps no one.

BTW: I don't have any ASIC pre-ordered from anyone nor do I plan to.

+1

I just get a little pissed, because the Forum had the most visitors today since 1 and 1/2 Years.

Most of them probably reading this thread (because of the CES) and those guys damaging this great opportunity because of the vapoware they bought.

Damn it, just discuss this in another thread. There is an extra scam accusation subforum.

[the_thing]

Everyone should probably just start ignoring/stop responding to lucif & co.

This was such a great thread until people allowed them to derail it.  If BFL doesn't deliver it doesn't deliver and we go from there. Allowing them to just rant and feed off your tears helps no one.

BTW: I don't have any ASIC pre-ordered from anyone nor do I plan to.

As far as I know, BFL already failed to deliver. They were supposed to deliver in November 2012. It is January 2013 and they haven't shipped one box of fans ASIC yet. So shut your mouth and quit trying to stop this thread by posting your nonsense and calling reasonable people "conspiracy theorists", you lousy sock puppet.

[lucif]

Everyone should probably just start ignoring/stop responding to lucif & co.

This was such a great thread until people allowed them to derail it.  If BFL doesn't deliver it doesn't deliver and we go from there. Allowing them to just rant and feed off your tears helps no one.

BTW: I don't have any ASIC pre-ordered from anyone nor do I plan to.

+1

I just get a little pissed, because the had the most visitors today since 1 and 1/2 Years.

Most of them probably reading this thread (because of the CES) and those guys damaging this great opportunity because of the vapoware they bought.

Damn it, just discuss this in another thread. There is an extra scam accusation subforum.

You may now start to panic, because SEC is a fire sword for all financial pyramids and scams.

In other hand, if BFL prove working chips - there is nothing to worry about.

But they keep silent so far.

[mccorvic]

I'd like to see some more videos from interactions with some of the regular and actual CES goers.

Also, even Duke Nukem Forever came out eventually

[the_thing]

You may now start to panic, because SEC is a fire sword for all financial pyramids and scams.

In other hand, if BFL prove working chips - there is nothing to worry about.

But they keep silent so far.

Have you already sent an email to the SEC?

[giszmo]

moderators?/lock or delete thread?/don't feed the troll?/bring up something actually interesting from CES?

I've been following this thread since the beginning and there was virtually *nothing* worth mentioning so if Akka worries about many people reading this thread, I'm sorry to disappoint you but if you remove the childish bashing of 2 camps, there's maybe 3 posts left in this thread, so yeah, in contrast to the OP, they entertained a hell lot of people.

[lucif]

You may now start to panic, because SEC is a fire sword for all financial pyramids and scams.

In other hand, if BFL prove working chips - there is nothing to worry about.

But they keep silent so far.

Have you already sent an email to the SEC?

With a lot of details. And asked verify are the actions of BFL legit.

Got TCR reference number.

[ElectricMucus]

You may now start to panic, because SEC is a fire sword for all financial pyramids and scams.

In other hand, if BFL prove working chips - there is nothing to worry about.

But they keep silent so far.

Have you already sent an email to the SEC?

The whole thing is a joke, the SEC doesn't give a crap about BTC.

Since bitcoin consists neither of physical element or information which could be threated under "copyright" there is nothing to prosecute. I probably just made myself very unpopular by saying this.
But at least some day people will realize that they have to take care of this themselves. It's actually very easy: Never ever lend out bitcoins.

[lucif]

AFAIK SEC closed glbse

[Akka]

moderators?/lock or delete thread?/don't feed the troll?/bring up something actually interesting from CES?

I've been following this thread since the beginning and there was virtually *nothing* worth mentioning so if Akka worries about many people reading this thread, I'm sorry to disappoint you but if you remove the childish bashing of 2 camps, there's maybe 3 posts left in this thread, so yeah, in contrast to the OP, they entertained a hell lot of people.

The thread was OK until page 6. And the video Micon posted is hilarious.

Just after that it turned into a pure BFL thread, which is at least disappointing, we already have 100s of those.

[MPOE-PR]

TCR Submitted Successfully - Reference Number: TCR1357902718572

Please refer to this number for futher correspondence with SEC officer regarding Butterfly Labs Inc case.

That's kinda funny because Preemptive strike, to have on hand for when Butterfly Labs gets hauled off to jail in corpore.

[MPOE-PR]

I see there's a 10% error margin. That means that BFL could deliver a fully working ASIC unit doing 60GH/s but if it uses 67W instead of their claimed 60W (but still less than every competitor) then the answer still comes out as no. However, it doesn't actually say if "advertised spec" refers to the hashrate or to everything...

Well if it referred to the actual spec it'd prolly be closed by now, seeing how they blew the date by more than 10% already.

[JordanL]

You may now start to panic, because SEC is a fire sword for all financial pyramids and scams.

In other hand, if BFL prove working chips - there is nothing to worry about.

But they keep silent so far.

Have you already sent an email to the SEC?

The whole thing is a joke, the SEC doesn't give a crap about BTC.

Since bitcoin consists neither of physical element or information which could be threated under "copyright" there is nothing to prosecute. I probably just made myself very unpopular by saying this.
But at least some day people will realize that they have to take care of this themselves. It's actually very easy: Never ever lend out bitcoins.

Just an observation, but it seems as though you didn't really think this through very well. People bought these physical products using credit cards and USD, and they have not been delivered yet. The USA has all kinds of consumer protection laws that BFL would likely be in violation of, should they failed to give everyone full refunds.

[lucif]

TCR Submitted Successfully - Reference Number: TCR1357902718572

Please refer to this number for futher correspondence with SEC officer regarding Butterfly Labs Inc case.

That's kinda funny because Preemptive strike, to have on hand for when Butterfly Labs gets hauled off to jail in corpore.

This article must be also submitted to SEC

[the_thing]

You may now start to panic, because SEC is a fire sword for all financial pyramids and scams.

In other hand, if BFL prove working chips - there is nothing to worry about.

But they keep silent so far.

Have you already sent an email to the SEC?

With a lot of details. And asked verify are the actions of BFL legit.
Got TCR reference number.

Wonderful, thank you. Now let the shitstorm begin!

[MPOE-PR]

I'd like to see some more videos from interactions with some of the regular and actual CES goers.

Also, even Duke Nukem Forever came out eventually

Yeah. It cost about the same and nobody enjoyed it.

[MPOE-PR]

The whole thing is a joke, the SEC doesn't give a crap about BTC.

Since bitcoin consists neither of physical element or information which could be threated under "copyright" there is nothing to prosecute. I probably just made myself very unpopular by saying this.
But at least some day people will realize that they have to take care of this themselves. It's actually very easy: Never ever lend out bitcoins.

You're just about right.

AFAIK SEC closed glbse

That's nonsense. Nefario went nuts and closed GLBSE because SEC was investigating Pirate.

[smoothie]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip

Why on earth would they have one chip? If they had chips at all, they would have thousands, and they would post photos of them being soldered on to PCBs and be shipping them. You know, they did say in advance that they wouldn't have hashing units, so you should have already known this, but I guess I can forgive you for not bothering to read their forums.

I think he was generally referring to a even a prototype with multiple chips. They don't even have that. That's how fucking pathetic BFL is.

[smoothie]

TCR Submitted Successfully - Reference Number: TCR1357902718572

Please refer to this number for futher correspondence with SEC officer regarding Butterfly Labs Inc case.

Did you ask for a refund of the miner(s) that you ordered?  Did BFL comply with the request?  If so, what is it you are filing a complaint about, exactly?

If I'm not mistaken there are laws that exist concerning preordered goods from a company and the time frame that a business must meet to be legitimate. If i'm not mistaken BFL has already went past that limit. But then again let's let this drama unfold PIRATEAT40 style. Just wait and wait and wait some more....lol

 

[smoothie]

No, Bitpay are participants in this $30M scam. All money went through them.

Delayed shipping == scam ??

Not much different than PIRATEAT40. Difference there is he only delayed about a month before being called a scammer. BFL at 70+ days late at least.

[smoothie]

moderators?/lock or delete thread?/don't feed the troll?/bring up something actually interesting from CES?

I've been following this thread since the beginning and there was virtually *nothing* worth mentioning so if Akka worries about many people reading this thread, I'm sorry to disappoint you but if you remove the childish bashing of 2 camps, there's maybe 3 posts left in this thread, so yeah, in contrast to the OP, they entertained a hell lot of people.

This is interesting. Seeing how Josh reacted to Micon is plenty interesting. If BFL turns out to be a fraud then this thread was for something: Protecting future customers/victims falling for BFL bullshit and losing money possibly.

[ElectricMucus]

You may now start to panic, because SEC is a fire sword for all financial pyramids and scams.

In other hand, if BFL prove working chips - there is nothing to worry about.

But they keep silent so far.

Have you already sent an email to the SEC?

The whole thing is a joke, the SEC doesn't give a crap about BTC.

Since bitcoin consists neither of physical element or information which could be threated under "copyright" there is nothing to prosecute. I probably just made myself very unpopular by saying this.
But at least some day people will realize that they have to take care of this themselves. It's actually very easy: Never ever lend out bitcoins.

Just an observation, but it seems as though you didn't really think this through very well. People bought these physical products using credit cards and USD, and they have not been delivered yet. The USA has all kinds of consumer protection laws that BFL would likely be in violation of, should they failed to give everyone full refunds.

Those who actually payed with USD and through conventional channels yes, sure.

The rest depends where the loyalties of bitpay are.

[lucif]

Bitpay will not stay separately. They do not have licenses to operate as payment processing, so they are participants of taking out people money.

[lucif]

Did BFL paid taxes from $25.000.000?

I doubt.

Who helped this to happen?

Bitpay.

[nathanrees19]

All victims of BFL scam should contact SEC officers with reference to mentioned TCR request.

.....Or submit a refund! They're refunding anyone who wants one!

[nathanrees19]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip

Why on earth would they have one chip? If they had chips at all, they would have thousands, and they would post photos of them being soldered on to PCBs and be shipping them. You know, they did say in advance that they wouldn't have hashing units, so you should have already known this, but I guess I can forgive you for not bothering to read their forums.

I think he was generally referring to a even a prototype with multiple chips. They don't even have that.

The posted on the forums weeks beforehand that they wouldn't. This is not news.

That's how fucking pathetic BFL is.

Explain. It's not like they could have asked CES to delay the entire event until they get a batch of working chips...

[elux]

Also, even Duke Nukem Forever came out eventually

But was it any good? 

[lucif]

All victims of BFL scam should contact SEC officers with reference to mentioned TCR request.

.....Or submit a refund! They're refunding anyone who wants one!

Not all will get refunds, not all...

[nathanrees19]

Not all will get refunds, not all...

Evidence please.

[ElectricMucus]

Not all will get refunds, not all...

Evidence please.

no u

[mccorvic]

Also, even Duke Nukem Forever came out eventually

But was it any good? 

I heard it wasn't, but it still came out bless their little hearts!

[lucif]

Obviously they already spent your money or their part. Or even stole them.

Should I have to explain how Ponzi crashes in panic caze? Only first refunds may be processed. Or may even not.

All other beleivers suck a dick.

[smoothie]

And the worst thing is people like Mincon and the other trolls procreate.


FUCK YOU!

No thanks. But I am sure Josh from BFL will accommodate your intimate request. 

[nathanrees19]

Only first refunds may be processed. Or may even not.

The first refunds have been processed. If this really is a genuine scam, you shouldn't have to exaggerate.

[lucif]

The first refunds have been processed. If this really is a genuine scam, you shouldn't have to exaggerate.

Hehe. I participated in one great ponzi (MMM-2011 Sergey Mavrodi), I know what it is. I know how scammers speak, I know how they keep silent till the end. I know they don't provide any details and keep all things in dark.

And I know how this ends.

[smoothie]

and posted in this thread that I would be back tomorrow film a fact-based analysis of what equipment Butterfly Labs brought to CES and how they cannot demonstrate even one ASIC mining chip

Why on earth would they have one chip? If they had chips at all, they would have thousands, and they would post photos of them being soldered on to PCBs and be shipping them. You know, they did say in advance that they wouldn't have hashing units, so you should have already known this, but I guess I can forgive you for not bothering to read their forums.

I think he was generally referring to a even a prototype with multiple chips. They don't even have that.

The posted on the forums weeks beforehand that they wouldn't. This is not news.

That's how fucking pathetic BFL is.

Explain. It's not like they could have asked CES to delay the entire event until they get a batch of working chips...

POINT: Don't show up to a tech convention with an incomplete product. In fact 100% incomplete. If it were an actual prototype that works and mines then great. But it wasn't. Hence all the hate. BFL knows better than to put up a front that things are hunky-dorry and really aren't.

[Inaba]

1)  The general hubris you display both IRL and on these forums will be your downfall.

This coming from a failed poker player with a broken "system" who can't even manage to bathe himself properly means very little to anyone.

2)  You claim a few time I was "Stomping around" and "cussing" at the Bitpay booth.  Here is a cued video of you cussing at me:  http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m40s  if you would like more context, rewind a bit:  http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m19s  

3) I saw Dave recording me while I was recording you.  You say many times I was the one stomping around and cussing go ahead and post your unedited video as I have.  Let's take a look and see who is lying.

As I stated many times already, you did this the day prior and I did not want a repeat performance.  We were not expecting a troll to show your face in real life.  Thanks for trying though, but you should probably work on your reading comprehension.

4)  My galaxy Note 2 is > than both your $100 Androids that you brought to CES.  Making fun of the device, arguable the hottest Android phone out there, makes you look even more foolish than when you handed me a quarter at CES.

Yes, tell me again how awesome your Galaxy Note 2 is.  I'm sure you're very proud of the fact that you could buy a phone.

5)  The cold, hard truth stares you in the face, and you will never reply publicly to the fact-based account of the equipment you brought to CES:

3x plastic cases
1 Box of fans
1 FPGA miner, working condition unknown
2x ~$100 Androids

obviously you wont' be responding to #5.

In order:

False (We had/have no plastic cases. I honestly don't even know what the hell you're babbling about with regards to this.)
False (There's more in the "box of fans" than just fans, obviously.  Nor have we ever tried to deny the fact that we don't have our chips available for public consumption yet.  I don't know if this is a news flash for you or not, but pretty much everyone knows we are waiting on our chips.  It's not a secret.)
False (Just because it's unknown to you doesn't make it unknown, it just makes you ignorant. If you could have remained civil, you could have poked and prodded it at like a few hundred other individuals did this week.)
False (Please look up the price on the N7.)
and
False (The fact that you're reading this is evidence.)

So out of your five claims, every single one is provably false. I hope you can bring something else to the table.  Please, for the love of god, let it be a shower.

[nathanrees19]

The first refunds have been processed. If this really is a genuine scam, you shouldn't have to exaggerate.

Hehe. I participated in one great ponzi (MMM-2011 Sergey Mavrodi), I know what it is. I know how scammers speak, I know how they keep silent till the end. I know they don't provide any details and keep all things in dark.

And I know how this ends.

Stop missing my point! You suggested that not even the first people would get refunds but they already have.

I'm not saying that I'm certain that all future refunds will be honoured, only that you shouldn't pretend that refunds are already being rejected.

[nathanrees19]

WOW seriously who knows if they are a scam yet, technically they showed a case, I mean I could get a case with a tablet and look exactly like that...

Only first refunds may be processed. Or may even not.

The first refunds have been processed. If this really is a genuine scam, you shouldn't have to exaggerate.

Hey stupid, Pirate processed some of his coins too, doesn't mean it isn't a scam.

Stop also missing my point!

The first refunds have been processed. If this really is a genuine scam, you shouldn't have to exaggerate.

I didn't say it can't be a scam (although it is unlikely, since they can make more from actually delivering).

[nathanrees19]

POINT: Don't show up to a tech convention with an incomplete product. In fact 100% incomplete. If it were an actual prototype that works and mines then great. But it wasn't. Hence all the hate. BFL knows better than to put up a front that things are hunky-dorry and really aren't.

POINT: it's CES. Most of the companies show to advertise incomplete products.

They announced beforehand that it wouldn't be complete in time.

[lucif]

The first Ponzi sign - huge advertising campaign WITHOUT real product.

BFL ads are everywhere. And chips? Where are they? Where specs? Where intermediaries info? Where transparency?

[smoothie]

In order:

False (We had/have no plastic cases. I honestly don't even know what the hell you're babbling about with regards to this.)
False (There's more in the "box of fans" than just fans, obviously.  Nor have we ever tried to deny the fact that we don't have our chips available for public consumption yet.  I don't know if this is a news flash for you or not, but pretty much everyone knows we are waiting on our chips.  It's not a secret.)
False (Just because it's unknown to you doesn't make it unknown, it just makes you ignorant. If you could have remained civil, you could have poked and prodded it at like a few hundred other individuals did this week.)
False (Please look up the price on the N7.)
and
False (The fact that you're reading this is evidence.)

So out of your five claims, every single one is provably false. I hope you can bring something else to the table.  Please, for the love of god, let it be a shower.

I guess the next projected date (next week will show if you have more secrets). "Oh we are delaying another 30 days blah blah blah"lol 

[smoothie]

POINT: Don't show up to a tech convention with an incomplete product. In fact 100% incomplete. If it were an actual prototype that works and mines then great. But it wasn't. Hence all the hate. BFL knows better than to put up a front that things are hunky-dorry and really aren't.

POINT: it's CES. Most of the companies show to advertise incomplete products.

They announced beforehand that it wouldn't be complete in time.

Showcasing a box that does not mine with asic chips (even prototypes) says their box there was a show and hoped no one would ask about the chips that are not 70+ days late.

[nathanrees19]

The first Ponzi sign - huge advertising campaign WITHOUT real product.

Every ASIC vendor advertised (at least a little bit) before they had a finished product. This does not imply that they didn't have a real design.

BFL ads are everywhere.

Obviously they have a good advertising budget. You can get this sort of funds when you have good investors who see some serious cash to be made.

And chips? Where are they?

Being produced? You realise that it takes a long time to produce them, right? This means that if the initial batch doesn't work (annoyingly high chance), it takes a long time to get the second batch. If that doesn't work either, you're forced to delay the shipment for a third, etc.

Where specs?

Why would they publish specs of their chips? The spec of the finished product is all that really matters to the customer.

Where intermediaries info? Where transparency?

Um, what do you consider to be "transparency"? I've noticed some pretty ridiculous goalpost-shifting over the last few months...every time they publish something, they apparently cease to be transparent if they don't publish more.

You may think this looks like a scam, but the simple fact is that the outward appearance of a new company trying to release their first ASIC product looks pretty much exactly the same, so it would be 50/50 for a scam or no scam without evidence. However, consider this evidence:

• ASICMINER has working chips, so it is at least physically possible to produce mining ASICs
• bASIC apparently also has a small number of prototype chips (possibly from a MPW)
• BFL has sold FPGA products before, so they probably already had at least some of the required expertise, they know how mining works, etc.
• Selling ASICs can be very, very profitable. If their power usage is lower than their competitors, then they will remain profitable for longer...people will still be buying these for a long time
• Many are simply waiting to see real products before they order, myself included, resulting in a fresh wave of orders after they first ship

Having ruled out that it's impossible to produce ASICs, BFL is in a better position financially if they can produce a real product than if they can get away with a scam. Assuming they want to make money, it's therefore more likely that the products are real.

[nathanrees19]

Showcasing a box that does not mine with asic chips (even prototypes) says their box there was a show

Of course it's there for show. It's goddamn CES, where companies try to show off whatever they can. They said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready.

and hoped no one would ask about the chips that are not 70+ days late.

They'd have to be braindead to not realise that people would ask about them. They wouldn't have been able to release FPGA products if they were braindead.

[smoothie]

The first Ponzi sign - huge advertising campaign WITHOUT real product.

Every ASIC vendor advertised (at least a little bit) before they had a finished product. This does not imply that they didn't have a real design.

BFL ads are everywhere.

Obviously they have a good advertising budget. You can get this sort of funds when you have good investors who see some serious cash to be made.

And chips? Where are they?

Being produced? You realise that it takes a long time to produce them, right? This means that if the initial batch doesn't work (annoyingly high chance), it takes a long time to get the second batch. If that doesn't work either, you're forced to delay the shipment for a third, etc.

Where specs?

Why would they publish specs of their chips? The spec of the finished product is all that really matters to the customer.

Where intermediaries info? Where transparency?

Um, what do you consider to be "transparency"? I've noticed some pretty ridiculous goalpost-shifting over the last few months...every time they publish something, they apparently cease to be transparent if they don't publish more.

You may think this looks like a scam, but the simple fact is that the outward appearance of a new company trying to release their first ASIC product looks pretty much exactly the same, so it would be 50/50 for a scam or no scam without evidence. However, consider this evidence:

• ASICMINER has working chips, so it is at least physically possible to produce mining ASICs
• bASIC apparently also has a small number of prototype chips (possibly from a MPW)
• BFL has sold FPGA products before, so they probably already had at least some of the required expertise, they know how mining works, etc.
• Selling ASICs can be very, very profitable. If their power usage is lower than their competitors, then they will remain profitable for longer...people will still be buying these for a long time
• Many are simply waiting to see real products before they order, myself included, resulting in a fresh wave of orders after they first ship

Having ruled out that it's impossible to produce ASICs, BFL is in a better position financially if they can produce a real product than if they can get away with a scam. Assuming they want to make money, it's therefore more likely that the products are real.

All of your "benefit of the doubts" show how much support you have for BFL.

How much in preorders do you have with BFL?

[smoothie]

Showcasing a box that does not mine with asic chips (even prototypes) says their box there was a show

Of course it's there for show. It's goddamn CES, where companies try to show off whatever they can. They said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready.

and hoped no one would ask about the chips that are not 70+ days late.

They'd have to be braindead to not realise that people would ask about them. They wouldn't have been able to release FPGA products if they were braindead.

1. Showcasing a box with a nexus 7 and fans has nothing to do with mining. It has everything to do with fluff and bullshit.

2. You forgot to mention that they didn't say they were going to be 70+ days late on delivering their products. I'm sure you would support them if they said tomorrow that their chips wont be read until Christmas 2013.

3. Braindead they are just look at Josh's eyes. Red.

[mrb]

That's why i put it in quotes so I could define anyway I wish. Like for example it is the opposite of what you took it to mean.

You don't change the definition of a word by quoting it. Way to be misunderstood... 2nd time I say it: you need to learn to communicate more clearly, if you want to be understood.

I can change the definition to mean what I want it to. Whether or not you GET IT does not matter to me. You have no control over what I choose to have a word mean or not. Nor do I care if you understand me or not in a clear manner. You actually think that I CARE IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND ME.

You fail hard. So hard that you resort to betting and insisting that people put money on the line because of what I believe or not to be true.

You make tons of assumptions.

Keep failing hard.

AGAIN I ASK: HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE IN BFL PREORDERS? OH RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE EMBARRASSED TO SHARE THAT INFO LOL!!!

 

Smoothie, perhaps no one has ever told you this nicely, so let me try.

Your posts are rude, non-sensical (redefining english words by quoting them), childish (improper sentence construction, and too many lols and smileys) and incoherent (as I have pointed out). Whereas mine are polite, but stern. This is why many readers ignore you: the forum software shows your "ignore" link in a dark shade of orange.

Tell me, you write on bitcointalk to share your ideas, right? So you should put 2 and 2 together and realize it is in your best interest to improve the quality of your posts, in order to be less often ignored and be able to share your ideas with a larger readership. So please do improve your writings and communication skills.

As to my BFL pre-orders, I am not answering because: (1) it would be impolite to boast about them, (2) this is none of your business, (3) no one cares anyway, and (4) nobody understands the point you are trying to make! (I am happy to demonstrate my belief in BFL through a bet, therefore I would be happy, not embarrassed, to do the same through my pre-orders. "lol" indeed)

[nathanrees19]

All of your "benefit of the doubts" show how much support you have for BFL.

Which benefits of the doubt? ASICs really do take a long time to produce. Failed chips really do require a whole new production run. What we see really is how things would look if their first chips failed and they were forced to get new ones made. Most companies really are light on information, only publishing what they need to market it.

I'm not giving them a free ride here. BFL really can make more money from products that really are possible to produce, than from a scam. Simple logic says that BFL will do whatever will make them the most money.

How much in preorders do you have with BFL?

• Many are simply waiting to see real products before they order, myself included, resulting in a fresh wave of orders after they first ship

You didn't even read my post.

If it's not obvious, I'm pretty sure that it's genuine, but I do want to see some real-world power consumption figures of the final product before I order. Electricity is expensive here.

[nathanrees19]

2. You forgot to mention that they didn't say they were going to be 70+ days late on delivering their products. I'm sure you would support them if they said tomorrow that their chips wont be read until Christmas 2013.

Sure thing, Captain Hindsight! I'm sure they totally knew about all the mistakes they would make before they made them.

[smoothie]

That's why i put it in quotes so I could define anyway I wish. Like for example it is the opposite of what you took it to mean.

You don't change the definition of a word by quoting it. Way to be misunderstood... 2nd time I say it: you need to learn to communicate more clearly, if you want to be understood.

I can change the definition to mean what I want it to. Whether or not you GET IT does not matter to me. You have no control over what I choose to have a word mean or not. Nor do I care if you understand me or not in a clear manner. You actually think that I CARE IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND ME.

You fail hard. So hard that you resort to betting and insisting that people put money on the line because of what I believe or not to be true.

You make tons of assumptions.

Keep failing hard.

AGAIN I ASK: HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE IN BFL PREORDERS? OH RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE EMBARRASSED TO SHARE THAT INFO LOL!!!

 

Smoothie, perhaps no one has ever told you this nicely, so let me try.

Your posts are rude, non-sensical (redefining english words by quoting them), childish (improper sentence construction, and too many lols and smileys) and incoherent (as I have pointed out). Whereas mine are polite, but stern. This is why many readers ignore you: the forum software shows your "ignore" link in a dark shade of orange.

Tell me, you write on bitcointalk to share your ideas, right? So you should put 2 and 2 together and realize it is in your best interest to improve the quality of your posts, in order to be less often ignored and be able to share your ideas with a larger readership. So please do improve your writings and communication skills.

As to my BFL pre-orders, I am not answering because: (1) it would be impolite to boast about them, (2) this is none of your business, (3) no one cares anyway, and (4) nobody understands the point you are trying to make! (I am happy to demonstrate my belief in BFL through a bet, therefore I would be happy, not embarrassed, to do the same through my pre-orders. "lol" indeed)

Not every post of mine is a "money-making" ploy like yours are.

Did I ever tell you that I could care less what you think of me?

Nor do I care how many people hit the pussy button to the left <---------

Try harder to detract from BFL's failures.

Quote from RED: "I am better than you because I am polite and stern and a BFL fanboy."

[notme]

Hmmm... was looking for CES updates, but I'll I see is 10 pages of BS about Butterfly Labs.  I am disappoint.

[ElectricMucus]

Hmmm... was looking for CES updates, but I'll I see is 10 pages of BS about Butterfly Labs.  I am disappoint.

You should know better, I mean, isn't it obvious that this was going to happen?

[notme]

Hmmm... was looking for CES updates, but I'll I see is 10 pages of BS about Butterfly Labs.  I am disappoint.

You should know better, I mean, isn't it obvious that this was going to happen?

It wasn't obvious until Micon showed up.  Don't get me wrong, nobody will be getting preorder money for ASICs from me, and I'm just as skeptical of BFL.  However, Micon just stirs up too much shit.

[ElectricMucus]

Hmmm... was looking for CES updates, but I'll I see is 10 pages of BS about Butterfly Labs.  I am disappoint.

You should know better, I mean, isn't it obvious that this was going to happen?

It wasn't obvious until Micon showed up.

Hmm, I grant you that.  

What I mean is that nerves are so blank that it could have been any other catalyst too.

[Starlightbreaker]

and for a different kind of post.

micon, your bitcoin address please, i'll send you some btc for a job well done.

 

[notme]

and for a different kind of post.

micon, your bitcoin address please, i'll send you some btc for a job well done.

 

Please don't feed the trolls.

[the_thing]

And the worst thing is people like Mincon and the other trolls procreate.


FUCK YOU!

No thanks. But I am sure Josh from BFL will accommodate your intimate request.  

If you quote, quote it right.

So Josh from BFL will accommodate my wish to erase 90% of humanity from this planet?

FUCK YOU!

 

Josh, stop it. I don't mind swear words, but typing them in 88pt font is just too much.

(mod note: Yes, 55 and 88px is too much.)

[lucif]

They fear rumors, as regular ponzi.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128233.0

[lucif]

owowo: niger? drug addicted? or both?

[MooC Tals]

I would like to thank the bitcoin community for this exciting drama surrounding ASICS I truely believe someone should make a book about this.

Oh maybe it might end up on 'Investigative Reports' with Bill Kurtis.

and now a word from our sponsors

[Inaba]

And the worst thing is people like Mincon and the other trolls procreate.


FUCK YOU!

No thanks. But I am sure Josh from BFL will accommodate your intimate request. 

If you quote, quote it right.

So Josh from BFL will accommodate my wish to erase 90% of humanity from this planet?

FUCK YOU!

 

Josh, stop it. I don't mind swear words, but typing them in 88pt font is just too much.

(mod note: Yes, 55 and 88px is too much.)

What?  What the hell are you talking about?  I rarely use swear words and I definitely do not use font size changes.  I can count the number of times I have used font sized changes (at least to make things larger) on one finger.  Using large fonts just screams "Hi, I'm in Junior High School" ... much like owning a Mustang screams "Hi, I'm in High School."  Same principle.  Anyway, I have no idea what you're talking about, so I can't stop what I'm not doing... or I've always been stopped and I have honored your request before you even made it, take your pick.

[arruah]

Simple question. When Asic will be released?

[colindean]

I stopped by the booth Wednesday afternoon and took some pictures after speaking with the Bitpay guys and Josh from BFL. Josh and I talked briefly about the technology behind the ASIC mining units and showed them to me. While I like many would have liked to see a working unit, I was impressed with the brushed aluminum case and impressive heatsink. It's regular to see non-working prototypes or samples on the floor. Josh stressed the importance of getting it right and delivering a product that meets the much discussed expectations. The Android mining application is pretty cool - I can definitely see its usefulness in conjunction with a repurposed older phone or tablet in a dock. 60 GH/s on your bookshelf is convenient and perhaps even a talking point for visitors, haha.

Here are some pictures I took. I had a video crew with me, but this wasn't really relevant to our site's market so we didn't film here.

http://imgur.com/a/h8gOb

I would have liked to spend more time there talking with the Bitpay guys and other folks, but my time was unfortunately limited! It's good to see Bitcoin represented.

Edit: I should also note that I came to Vegas with several hundred USD in BTC and sold out twice over via LocalBitcoins. AFAICT, all of the transactions were to new(er) buyers.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'll tell you what, Bitcoin should be the star of CES2013. If not, then CES2014 for sure, with no less than a half dozen booths on display, sans any vapor-weights by some Asian benefactors.

[iCEBREAKER]

I would like to thank the bitcoin community for this exciting drama surrounding ASICS I truely believe someone should make a book about this.

Shit was getting boring but the 2013 season of All My Bitcoins is dropping massive, fresh drama.

[Inaba]

I'll tell you what, Bitcoin should be the star of CES2013. If not, then CES2014 for sure, with no less than a half dozen booths on display, sans any vapor-weights by some Asian benefactors.

In addition to the rocks, every other booth was practically E-cigarettes or Wireless Speakers.  Seriously... how many of these things does the planet need?  If CES is any judge, the only people without these two necessities of life will be the dead (although I suspect there is a movement to include wireless speakers in coffins with an iPod dock on the headstone so can rock out with your dearly departed) and those born without mouths. 

[BCB]

I stopped by the booth Wednesday afternoon and took some pictures after speaking with the Bitpay guys and Josh from BFL. Josh and I talked briefly about the technology behind the ASIC mining units and showed them to me. While I like many would have liked to see a working unit, I was impressed with the brushed aluminum case and impressive heatsink. It's regular to see non-working prototypes or samples on the floor. Josh stressed the importance of getting it right and delivering a product that meets the much discussed expectations. The Android mining application is pretty cool - I can definitely see its usefulness in conjunction with a repurposed older phone or tablet in a dock. 60 GH/s on your bookshelf is convenient and perhaps even a talking point for visitors, haha.

Here are some pictures I took. I had a video crew with me, but this wasn't really relevant to our site's market so we didn't film here.

http://imgur.com/a/h8gOb

I would have liked to spend more time there talking with the Bitpay guys and other folks, but my time was unfortunately limited! It's good to see Bitcoin represented.

Edit: I should also note that I came to Vegas with several hundred USD in BTC and sold out twice over via LocalBitcoins. AFAICT, all of the transactions were to new(er) buyers.

Thx for the measured post.

[SgtSpike]

In addition to the rocks, every other booth was practically E-cigarettes or Wireless Speakers.  Seriously... how many of these things does the planet need?  If CES is any judge, the only people without these two necessities of life will be the dead (although I suspect there is a movement to include wireless speakers in coffins with an iPod dock on the headstone so can rock out with your dearly departed) and those born without mouths. 

Don't forget the lawn-mounted pv panel for powering it 24/7!

[Micon]

1)  The general hubris you display both IRL and on these forums will be your downfall.

This coming from a failed poker player with a broken "system" who can't even manage to bathe himself properly means very little to anyone.

2)  You claim a few time I was "Stomping around" and "cussing" at the Bitpay booth.  Here is a cued video of you cussing at me:  http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m40s  if you would like more context, rewind a bit:  http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m19s  

3) I saw Dave recording me while I was recording you.  You say many times I was the one stomping around and cussing go ahead and post your unedited video as I have.  Let's take a look and see who is lying.

As I stated many times already, you did this the day prior and I did not want a repeat performance.  We were not expecting a troll to show your face in real life.  Thanks for trying though, but you should probably work on your reading comprehension.

4)  My galaxy Note 2 is > than both your $100 Androids that you brought to CES.  Making fun of the device, arguable the hottest Android phone out there, makes you look even more foolish than when you handed me a quarter at CES.

Yes, tell me again how awesome your Galaxy Note 2 is.  I'm sure you're very proud of the fact that you could buy a phone.

5)  The cold, hard truth stares you in the face, and you will never reply publicly to the fact-based account of the equipment you brought to CES:

3x plastic cases
1 Box of fans
1 FPGA miner, working condition unknown
2x ~$100 Androids

obviously you wont' be responding to #5.

In order:

False (We had/have no plastic cases. I honestly don't even know what the hell you're babbling about with regards to this.)
False (There's more in the "box of fans" than just fans, obviously.  Nor have we ever tried to deny the fact that we don't have our chips available for public consumption yet.  I don't know if this is a news flash for you or not, but pretty much everyone knows we are waiting on our chips.  It's not a secret.)
False (Just because it's unknown to you doesn't make it unknown, it just makes you ignorant. If you could have remained civil, you could have poked and prodded it at like a few hundred other individuals did this week.)
False (Please look up the price on the N7.)
and
False (The fact that you're reading this is evidence.)

So out of your five claims, every single one is provably false. I hope you can bring something else to the table.  Please, for the love of god, let it be a shower.

1)  Aren't you supposed to at least pretend to be a principal of a legitimate company?  How could anyone have faith in such an arrogant company director that resorts to personal insults almost every post?

2)  You resort to personal attacks like it's your job, because clearly producing working ASIC chips isn't.  (Or even spending time on the task.  Who is working on that ATM?  nothing better to do than fight with a "troll" ?)

3)  your 5-point false-ing, to anyone reading these boards with any intelligence, sounds like the rest of your posts (and IRL confrontations) - childish and transparent.  Deflect much?  Price of your android being $259 @ Amazon (yup, u made me google it!) instead of $100 still deflects from the main points of:

3a)  every search I do for bitcoin comes up with a BFL pre-order ad.   BFL has taken in over $25M by my estimations. (I would love to hear other estimations of total pre-order monies shipped to BFL)  You have shipped nothing.  You started promising shipments in September 2012. 

3b)  Your company did not bring anything worthwhile to show at CES.

3b)  here is an updated drawing if what BFL brought to CES using my Samsung Galaxy Note II [rated super high on CNET:  http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-note-2/4852-6452_7-35426722.html ]

[smoothie]

1)  Aren't you supposed to at least pretend to be a principal of a legitimate company?  How could anyone have faith in such an arrogant company director that resorts to personal insults almost every post?

2)  You resort to personal attacks like it's your job, because clearly producing working ASIC chips isn't.  (Or even spending time on the task.  Who is working on that ATM?  nothing better to do than fight with a "troll" ?)

3)  your 5-point false-ing, to anyone reading these boards with any intelligence, sounds like the rest of your posts (and IRL confrontations) - childish and transparent.  Deflect much?  Price of your android being $259 @ Amazon (yup, u made me google it!) instead of $100 still deflects from the main points of:

3a)  every search I do for bitcoin comes up with a BFL pre-order ad.   BFL has taken in over $25M by my estimations. (I would love to hear other estimations of total pre-order monies shipped to BFL)  You have shipped nothing.  You started promising shipments in September 2012. 

3b)  Your company did not bring anything worthwhile to show at CES.

3b)  here is an updated drawing if what BFL brought to CES using my Samsung Galaxy Note II [rated super high on CNET:  http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-note-2/4852-6452_7-35426722.html ]

Honestly how did you come up with number? Math please. Thanks!

BTW loved the video! 

[smoothie]

I guess Micon's video brings a new meaning to BFL Fan Boys.

LOL

[Inaba]

1)  Aren't you supposed to at least pretend to be a principal of a legitimate company?  How could anyone have faith in such an arrogant company director that resorts to personal insults almost every post?

2)  You resort to personal attacks like it's your job, because clearly producing working ASIC chips isn't.  (Or even spending time on the task.  Who is working on that ATM?  nothing better to do than fight with a "troll" ?)

3)  your 5-point false-ing, to anyone reading these boards with any intelligence, sounds like the rest of your posts (and IRL confrontations) - childish and transparent.  Deflect much?  Price of your android being $259 @ Amazon (yup, u made me google it!) instead of $100 still deflects from the main points of:

3a)  every search I do for bitcoin comes up with a BFL pre-order ad.   BFL has taken in over $25M by my estimations. (I would love to hear other estimations of total pre-order monies shipped to BFL)  You have shipped nothing.  You started promising shipments in September 2012. 

3b)  Your company did not bring anything worthwhile to show at CES.

3b)  here is an updated drawing if what BFL brought to CES using my Samsung Galaxy Note II [rated super high on CNET:  http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-note-2/4852-6452_7-35426722.html ]

Haha... excellent.  I refute every point of yours with facts and this is your response.  If your claims are true, you could come up with something concrete to back your claims.  Thanks for telling me, yet again, how great your phone is. I quite thoroughly understand that you love your little phone and think it's the neatest thing in the world.  Your estimations are garbage, just like your poker "system".  You brought up the $100 and asked me to respond to it, now you bitch because I do?  Instead you post a bunch of strawman arguments to try and distract people from realizing you're a complete dolt.  Unfortunately for you, they've already realized it and I suspect it happened a long time ago.  I feel incredibly sorry for your newborn daughter with you a role model.  She will, inevitably, Google you one day and likely find this thread and wonder why her dad was such a pathetic role model.

[smoothie]

1)  Aren't you supposed to at least pretend to be a principal of a legitimate company?  How could anyone have faith in such an arrogant company director that resorts to personal insults almost every post?

2)  You resort to personal attacks like it's your job, because clearly producing working ASIC chips isn't.  (Or even spending time on the task.  Who is working on that ATM?  nothing better to do than fight with a "troll" ?)

3)  your 5-point false-ing, to anyone reading these boards with any intelligence, sounds like the rest of your posts (and IRL confrontations) - childish and transparent.  Deflect much?  Price of your android being $259 @ Amazon (yup, u made me google it!) instead of $100 still deflects from the main points of:

3a)  every search I do for bitcoin comes up with a BFL pre-order ad.   BFL has taken in over $25M by my estimations. (I would love to hear other estimations of total pre-order monies shipped to BFL)  You have shipped nothing.  You started promising shipments in September 2012. 

3b)  Your company did not bring anything worthwhile to show at CES.

3b)  here is an updated drawing if what BFL brought to CES using my Samsung Galaxy Note II [rated super high on CNET:  http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-note-2/4852-6452_7-35426722.html ]

Haha... excellent.  I refute every point of yours with facts and this is your response.  If your claims are true, you could come up with something concrete to back your claims.  Thanks for telling me, yet again, how great your phone is. I quite thoroughly understand that you love your little phone and think it's the neatest thing in the world.  Your estimations are garbage, just like your poker "system".  You brought up the $100 and asked me to respond to it, now you bitch because I do?  Instead you post a bunch of strawman arguments to try and distract people from realizing you're a complete dolt.  Unfortunately for you, they've already realized it and I suspect it happened a long time ago.  I feel incredibly sorry for your newborn daughter with you a role model.  She will, inevitably, Google you one day and likely find this thread and wonder why her dad was such a pathetic role model.

Wow Josh is a fucking douchebag. Bringing Micon's daughter into this with insults?

Josh are you like in kindergarten? Why you mad? Why you cry so hard? ASIC chips being delayed yet again? (watch me call this delay...and be right)

 

[MPOE-PR]

1)  The general hubris you display both IRL and on these forums will be your downfall.

This coming from a failed poker player with a broken "system" who can't even manage to bathe himself properly means very little to anyone.

Truly a clash of titans. So the difference between the failed poker player who can't manage to bathe and you would be that you manage to bathe? Or that you play pretty good poker?

[John (John K.)]

Please keep the BFL bashing and BFL supporting replies out of here. It's derailing this thread.

[MPOE-PR]

The Android mining application is pretty cool - I can definitely see its usefulness in conjunction with a repurposed older phone or tablet in a dock. 60 GH/s on your bookshelf is convenient and perhaps even a talking point for visitors, haha.

60 GH/s off an repurposed older phone? What exactly do they smoke in Vegas?

[BCB]

Mods.

When a thead is so heavily populated with users who have dark orange ignore buttons maybe it's time to lock the thread.

[Dansker]

How about re-labeling this thread "BFL at CES - Scammer or saviour?"

And then moving the 3-4 non-BFL bash/love posts to a new thread about the CES?

Would make MOD work a lot easier...

[Micon]

1)  Aren't you supposed to at least pretend to be a principal of a legitimate company?  How could anyone have faith in such an arrogant company director that resorts to personal insults almost every post?

2)  You resort to personal attacks like it's your job, because clearly producing working ASIC chips isn't.  (Or even spending time on the task.  Who is working on that ATM?  nothing better to do than fight with a "troll" ?)

3)  your 5-point false-ing, to anyone reading these boards with any intelligence, sounds like the rest of your posts (and IRL confrontations) - childish and transparent.  Deflect much?  Price of your android being $259 @ Amazon (yup, u made me google it!) instead of $100 still deflects from the main points of:

3a)  every search I do for bitcoin comes up with a BFL pre-order ad.   BFL has taken in over $25M by my estimations. (I would love to hear other estimations of total pre-order monies shipped to BFL)  You have shipped nothing.  You started promising shipments in September 2012.  

3b)  Your company did not bring anything worthwhile to show at CES.

3b)  here is an updated drawing if what BFL brought to CES using my Samsung Galaxy Note II [rated super high on CNET:  http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-note-2/4852-6452_7-35426722.html ]

Haha... excellent.  I refute every point of yours with facts and this is your response.  If your claims are true, you could come up with something concrete to back your claims.  Thanks for telling me, yet again, how great your phone is. I quite thoroughly understand that you love your little phone and think it's the neatest thing in the world.  Your estimations are garbage, just like your poker "system".  You brought up the $100 and asked me to respond to it, now you bitch because I do?  Instead you post a bunch of strawman arguments to try and distract people from realizing you're a complete dolt.  Unfortunately for you, they've already realized it and I suspect it happened a long time ago.  I feel incredibly sorry for your newborn daughter with you a role model.  She will, inevitably, Google you one day and likely find this thread and wonder why her dad was such a pathetic role model.

1)  When do you plan to ship the ASIC devices?

2)  How many pre-orders did you take so far?

3)  How much money collected in pre-orders?  Why would this be a big secret?  

IMO, the boys should start adding it up anonymously.  

[Mosrite]

Chairman Byron Micon has unveiled another scam.

1) when will the chips be shipped?

2) how much have you taken in preorders?

answer, or you will anger the annamicon.

[World]

I stopped by the booth Wednesday afternoon and took some pictures after speaking with the Bitpay guys and Josh from BFL. Josh and I talked briefly about the technology behind the ASIC mining units and showed them to me. While I like many would have liked to see a working unit, I was impressed with the brushed aluminum case and impressive heatsink. It's regular to see non-working prototypes or samples on the floor. Josh stressed the importance of getting it right and delivering a product that meets the much discussed expectations. The Android mining application is pretty cool - I can definitely see its usefulness in conjunction with a repurposed older phone or tablet in a dock. 60 GH/s on your bookshelf is convenient and perhaps even a talking point for visitors, haha.

Here are some pictures I took. I had a video crew with me, but this wasn't really relevant to our site's market so we didn't film here.

http://imgur.com/a/h8gOb

I would have liked to spend more time there talking with the Bitpay guys and other folks, but my time was unfortunately limited! It's good to see Bitcoin represented.

Edit: I should also note that I came to Vegas with several hundred USD in BTC and sold out twice over via LocalBitcoins. AFAICT, all of the transactions were to new(er) buyers.

Thx for the measured post.

Very informative post and photos thank you

[Raoul Duke]

Did BFL paid taxes from $25.000.000?

facepalm.jpg

[Kupsi]

Did BFL paid taxes from $25.000.000?

facepalm.jpg

Yes, why should they pay taxes of the preorders? lucif? I believe you should go back and work on your TA with the $5 target  

[nathanrees19]

I guess Micon's video brings a new meaning to BFL Fan Boys.

LOL

You misspelled "irrational BFL haters".

[lucif]

Yes, why should they pay taxes of the preorders? lucif? I believe you should go back and work on your TA with the $5 target  

$6.90 actually.

Wait, wait We have a shitstorm preparing.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Did BFL paid taxes from $25.000.000?

facepalm.jpg

I think it's about time to put one rumor to rest: http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/atlantech/2013/01/bitcoin-payments-processor-bitpay.html?page=2

The total dollar value of all orders processed by BitPay in 2012 is over $3 million, and all orders were paid using bitcoin.

We could just about safely assume that a decimal is off by one space.

[BCB]

Good call Phinn and if that number is accurate that includes revenue from 1000+ other clients.

[the_thing]

It surprises me how much money can be handled by such incompetent managers and/or scammers.
I think I'll start a business in the US.

[BCB]

It surprises me how much money can be handled by such incompetent managers and/or scammers.
I think I'll start a business in the US.

Bitconica
Intersango
Bitmarket.eu

They are not US companies. I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

[Raoul Duke]

Good call Phinn and if that number is accurate that includes revenue from 1000+ other clients.

The $3million value comes from a Bitpay Press Release.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitpay-to-expand-bitcoin-processing-space-with-510000-funding-round-2013-01-07

Over the past year, BitPay has seen transaction volume accelerating with average quarter-to-quarter growth of 50% over the past four quarters. The total dollar value of all orders processed by BitPay in 2012 is over $3 million, and all orders were paid using bitcoin. Bitcoin is the innovative digital currency that is being adopted worldwide.

[the_thing]

Bitconica
Intersango
Bitmarket.eu
They are not US companies.

I stand corrected.

I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.

[BCB]

Bitconica
Intersango
Bitmarket.eu
They are not US companies.

I stand corrected.

I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.

the_thing

You don't need venture capital to start a highly successful, fradulent bitcoin business.  Ask Trendon Shaver.

You've got to get creative.

Create a mysterious persona or somewhat nefarious persona. 
Come up with a magical way to make money that you can't fully reveal or doesn't really exist.
Profit handsomely
Get hacked/default/disappear
Avoid any prosecution
rinse and repeat.

[the_thing]

the_thing

You don't need venture capital to start a highly successful, fradulent bitcoin business.  Ask Trendon Shaver.

You've got to get creative.

Create a mysterious persona or somewhat nefarious persona. 
Come up with a magical way to make money that you can't fully reveal or doesn't really exist.
Profit handsomely
Get hacked/default/disappear
Avoid any prosecution
rinse and repeat.

To be honest, I have already tried to raise some capital on bitcointalk, but people didn't want to invest with me just because my business plan was a little illegal. I understand their objections, but I find it sad nevertheless. At least my plan wasn't a scam, god damn it! I seem to lack the skill to persuade people to give me their money.

[lucif]

You just don't offer them true. Offer them a dream. There are a lot if kid idiots here.

[lucif]

Here is a rich field of goofs in a country of fools.

[BCB]

From forbes.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/01/07/largest-bitcoin-payment-processor-raises-510000-angel-round/

"Since the November 2012 WordPress deal, BitPay has seen new merchants increase by nearly 50% to over 2,000. The total dollar value of all bitcoin transactions processed by BitPay in 2012 was over $3 million, which represents average quarter-to-quarter growth of 50% over the past four quarters for transaction volume."

At that rate it breaks down to:

EDIT:

Q1   187,500 USD
Q2   375,000 USD
Q3   750,000 USD
Q4   1,500,000 USD

1 Month of Q2 and all of Q3 before BLF missed its shipping deadline could represent at most  $2M aprox. $1M USD in BLF pre-sales (plus any buyers who placed orders in Q4).

[greyhawk]

In addition to the rocks, every other booth was practically E-cigarettes or Wireless Speakers.  Seriously... how many of these things does the planet need?  If CES is any judge, the only people without these two necessities of life will be the dead (although I suspect there is a movement to include wireless speakers in coffins with an iPod dock on the headstone so can rock out with your dearly departed) and those born without mouths. 

That would be because your booth is at the Venetian. You know, where they put the absurdities and weirdos so they don't pollute the real CES at the LVCV.

[mobodick]

Being produced? You realise that it takes a long time to produce them, right? This means that if the initial batch doesn't work (annoyingly high chance), it takes a long time to get the second batch. If that doesn't work either, you're forced to delay the shipment for a third, etc.

You are talkng out of your ass.
Before ANY production runs (of ANY electronic device) are made the design is already completely prototyped and working.
No person in the world will run a production batch of an untested unprototyped design.
It would be a complete waste of money because it is almost 100% sure there will be some form of design error.
You can only start making predictions about the time it takes for one batch IF you have a working prototype and your product is quite finished.
THEN and only then do you invest money in an actual production run.
The BFL delivery dates don't add up. They must know fully well that their 'dates' were unresponsibly optimistic. Furthermore it appears they are fully depending on some 3rd party for their product since they say they will deliver soon but still have no prototype. This propably also means that the 3rd party they take the product from still has to do all the testing phases etc before they can produce a batch.
If their claim that BFL designed the chip themselfs is true then i don't think it is financially possible to run a batch without first going through several revisions which implies several more or less working prototypes.
Since BFL doesn't have a working prototype (or at least are unable or unwilling to show it) you can SAFELY assume they are not ready for a real batch of any size.

So for now BFL has given no reason whatsoever to trust that they will deliver anytime soon.
In any case, BFL claims they have extra special super experience with delays from the FPGA batches and have therefore claimed that they will, for sure, deliver in october 2012.
It is now January 2013, BFL showed an empty case on CES and they still haven't got a clue when exactly they will deliver.
This just means they have no control whatsoever about the process. They have shown that the dates they mentioned were meaningless.
One could even say their shipment dates are outright lies because they were never realistic in the first place given the fact that there is no prototype.

[lucif]

Btw, Bitpay accepts 0-confirmation transactions

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136017.0

Now all scam them with fake paymetns!

[Inaba]

Chairman Byron Micon has unveiled another scam.

1) when will the chips be shipped?

2) how much have you taken in preorders?

answer, or you will anger the annamicon.

Oh noes!  Not the annamicon!  Imma run and hide, it's scuurrry!

[MPOE-PR]

It surprises me how much money can be handled by such incompetent managers and/or scammers.
I think I'll start a business in the US.

Bitconica
Intersango
Bitmarket.eu

They are not US companies. I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

He like...has a point. I'm blown away.

Bitconica
Intersango
Bitmarket.eu
They are not US companies.

I stand corrected.

I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.

Are you like...in Romania?

You are talkng out of your ass.
Before ANY production runs (of ANY electronic device) are made the design is already completely prototyped and working.
No person in the world will run a production batch of an untested unprototyped design.

Hi Mobo. So sorry to have to say this but...well...contrary to what anyone could have imagined before, someone allegedly did do exactly that (of course talk is cheap and claims easy for scammers, but still).

If their claim that BFL designed the chip themselfs is true then

It would be the first claim they made that's actually true. Not very likely.

BFL is a marketing company (and an incredibly poor one, in many aspects). Their business is keeping those Google ads up and siphoning the incoming money into more or less safe holes. Everything else is everyone else's problem.

[the_thing]

I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.


Are you like...in Romania?

No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati'  

[notme]

I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.


Are you like...in Romania?

No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati'  

Google translate doesn't quite handle the second one... something about fucking something dead.

[SgtSpike]

Being produced? You realise that it takes a long time to produce them, right? This means that if the initial batch doesn't work (annoyingly high chance), it takes a long time to get the second batch. If that doesn't work either, you're forced to delay the shipment for a third, etc.

You are talkng out of your ass.
Before ANY production runs (of ANY electronic device) are made the design is already completely prototyped and working.
No person in the world will run a production batch of an untested unprototyped design.
It would be a complete waste of money because it is almost 100% sure there will be some form of design error.
You can only start making predictions about the time it takes for one batch IF you have a working prototype and your product is quite finished.
THEN and only then do you invest money in an actual production run.
The BFL delivery dates don't add up. They must know fully well that their 'dates' were unresponsibly optimistic. Furthermore it appears they are fully depending on some 3rd party for their product since they say they will deliver soon but still have no prototype. This propably also means that the 3rd party they take the product from still has to do all the testing phases etc before they can produce a batch.
If their claim that BFL designed the chip themselfs is true then i don't think it is financially possible to run a batch without first going through several revisions which implies several more or less working prototypes.
Since BFL doesn't have a working prototype (or at least are unable or unwilling to show it) you can SAFELY assume they are not ready for a real batch of any size.

So for now BFL has given no reason whatsoever to trust that they will deliver anytime soon.
In any case, BFL claims they have extra special super experience with delays from the FPGA batches and have therefore claimed that they will, for sure, deliver in october 2012.
It is now January 2013, BFL showed an empty case on CES and they still haven't got a clue when exactly they will deliver.
This just means they have no control whatsoever about the process. They have shown that the dates they mentioned were meaningless.
One could even say their shipment dates are outright lies because they were never realistic in the first place given the fact that there is no prototype.

Let's see...

If I'm BFL, and working to try to get chips to customers, would I rather spend $100k on a 3rd full run of chips (after supposedly all of the problems from the first two batches have been fixed), hoping that they work properly, or would I rather spend $10k on prototype chips so that I can test first, risking $3M in preorders by forcing customers to wait ANOTHER 4-6 weeks for a full production run?

$90k sounds like a reasonable cost when you're talking about the risk of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars of preorders being cancelled and sales shifting to other companies.

ASIC is all about who is first to product.  $100k is almost a drop in the bucket to get the products ready to ship ASAP.

[Littleshop]

Btw, Bitpay accepts 0-confirmation transactions

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136017.0

Now all scam them with fake paymetns!

Bitpay gives the merchant the option to accept them as far as I know.  You can set to three different levels of security in case you are worried.  While I have not received a notice, if you do take a 0 conf you will get a notice if a double spend was done.  If you are shipping a physical product any setting should be safe as you will know shortly after that there was a problem.  If you are delivering an electronic product 0 conf is probably not a good idea.  It is your choice. 

[lucif]

Yeah its a good idea to hint merchant lowest level of security. Its a good idea to advertise with huge font "NO PCI COMPLIANCE" on their CES ad (e.g. no security).

Most of Bitpay merchants I saw using 0-confirmation scheme.

Bitpay: are you from mars, eh?

What a sloven payment processor.

[tbcoin]

Yeah its a good idea to hint merchant lowest level of security. Its a good idea to advertise with huge font "NO PCI COMPLIANCE" on their CES ad (e.g. no security).

Most of Bitpay merchants I saw using 0-confirmation scheme.

Bitpay: are you from mars, eh?

What a sloven payment processor.

You hate all bitcoin bussines??

[lucif]

No. I hate lack of security and responsibility.

Actually what is killing bitcoin price?

1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

And now Bitpay with BFL crew.

How long this will continue? I like to kill them, not Bitcoin.

If we see a responsible secure bitcoin payment processor - I will shake it hand.

But we have slovens here so far.

[lucif]

People outside Bitcoin community whatever they hear about Bitcoin - its a hack, scam, theft, criminal. Look at google trends with news marks.

And these slovens killing Bitcoin - NOT ME.

I just troll them to show their real face. They kill trust in Bitcoin.

I am not an enemy, I just say truth. Just enough slovens.

Bitpay directly connected with BFL crew scam - even on their ad in CES. Allright. Lets teach them responsibility for their actions.

[nathanrees19]

Being produced? You realise that it takes a long time to produce them, right? This means that if the initial batch doesn't work (annoyingly high chance), it takes a long time to get the second batch. If that doesn't work either, you're forced to delay the shipment for a third, etc.

You are talkng out of your ass.
Before ANY production runs (of ANY electronic device) are made the design is already completely prototyped and working.
No person in the world will run a production batch of an untested unprototyped design.
It would be a complete waste of money because it is almost 100% sure there will be some form of design error.
You can only start making predictions about the time it takes for one batch IF you have a working prototype and your product is quite finished.
THEN and only then do you invest money in an actual production run.
The BFL delivery dates don't add up. They must know fully well that their 'dates' were unresponsibly optimistic. Furthermore it appears they are fully depending on some 3rd party for their product since they say they will deliver soon but still have no prototype. This propably also means that the 3rd party they take the product from still has to do all the testing phases etc before they can produce a batch.
If their claim that BFL designed the chip themselfs is true then i don't think it is financially possible to run a batch without first going through several revisions which implies several more or less working prototypes.
Since BFL doesn't have a working prototype (or at least are unable or unwilling to show it) you can SAFELY assume they are not ready for a real batch of any size.

So for now BFL has given no reason whatsoever to trust that they will deliver anytime soon.
In any case, BFL claims they have extra special super experience with delays from the FPGA batches and have therefore claimed that they will, for sure, deliver in october 2012.
It is now January 2013, BFL showed an empty case on CES and they still haven't got a clue when exactly they will deliver.
This just means they have no control whatsoever about the process. They have shown that the dates they mentioned were meaningless.
One could even say their shipment dates are outright lies because they were never realistic in the first place given the fact that there is no prototype.

Is that so?

[nathanrees19]

ASIC is all about who is first to product.  $100k is almost a drop in the bucket to get the products ready to ship ASAP.

This.

A "prototype" in the ASIC world generally means waiting for a MPW round that happens to be using the setup you need...this could mean months and months.

[lucif]

The first is out: https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093

Basic rip.

BFL - prepare!
Bitpay - prepare!

[MPOE-PR]

No. I hate lack of security and responsibility.

Actually what is killing bitcoin price?

1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

And now Bitpay with BFL crew.

How long this will continue? I like to kill them, not Bitcoin.

If we see a responsible secure bitcoin payment processor - I will shake it hand.

But we have slovens here so far.

Pretty spot on, that. Personal responsibility, nobody wants it.

[lucif]

And this are my thoughts https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133844

[MPOE-PR]

No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati' 

Did it ever work out for you?

[da2ce7]

Bitpay - prepare!

I think that Bitpay is a bridge too-far.  Tony is a great guy.

[the_thing]

These are my favorite parts :

Dave has attempted to process ALL outstanding requests for refunds.  However, Dave and I feel confident Tom did not leave enough money in the merchant account to complete them all.

and

Tom did not show up for our meeting this morning, where he was asked to provide several pieces of information regarding BTCFPGA.  All evidence I have leads me to believe he left town. I have no idea of his location.

Simply put, one of the owners gone nuts, took the money and ran away.

No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati' 

Did it ever work out for you?

Never met a Romanian girl.

[MooC Tals]

The first is out: https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093

Basic rip.

BFL - prepare!
Bitpay - prepare!

http://youtu.be/0jF5Xc3MIVk?t=12m53s

When it comes to money the devil is always in the details. No matter what or who is in charge corruption will always be the case. Even the trusted government and banks corruption always rises like cream.

[mrb]

Actually what is killing bitcoin price?
1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

I don't remember any of these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

The reason of the price decrease between Jun and Dec 2011 was an popping of the valuation bubble, not the MtGox hack. In fact, BTC had already lost half of its peak value ($30 down to $15) before the hack had even occurred. I would even argue that the hack helped slow down the rate at which BTC was loosing value: MtGox suspended trading for a full week, allowing traders to cool down, and its rate managed to stay above $15 for a full 2+ weeks after trading was re-opened, a period during which anybody who wanted out presumably sold. It then progressively decreased over the next few months, but it was obviously a continuation of the popping of the valuation bubble.

[the_thing]

Actually what is killing bitcoin price?
1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

I don't remember any of these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

the red circle shows the fall of the price after Pirate's operation shut down.
the blue circle shows the fall after glbse getting closed.

[MPOE-PR]

I don't remember these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

Then your memory isn't very good. See here re Pirate. MtGox hack destroyed bitcoin for three quarters, it went from 30 to .01 and the recovery is not complete to this day. Etc.

[lucif]

Bitpay - prepare!

I think that Bitpay is a bridge too-far.  Tony is a great guy.

I will explain to SEC in large details how Bitpay processed payments not being licensed as payment processor. How they helped BFL to fool people for $25M. How they were together in CES.
They are actually participants in crime with BFL.

Bitpay probably needs to prepare good attorneys.

[lucif]

[the_thing]

I will explain to SEC in large details how Bitpay processed payments not being licensed as payment processor. How they helped BFL to fool people for $25M. How they were together in CES.
They are actually participants in crime with BFL.

Bitpay probably needs to prepare good attorneys.

I hereby pronounce you the creator of shitstorms.

wait a second, is this real or a shoop? i can't tell.

[lucif]

I'm just a spark in a room full of gas =)

[organofcorti]

........

I hereby pronounce you the creator of shitstorms.

Lucifer, stirrer of shit. Sounds about right.

[BitPay Business Solutions]

Bitpay - prepare!

I think that Bitpay is a bridge too-far.  Tony is a great guy.

I will explain to SEC in large details how Bitpay processed payments not being licensed as payment processor. How they helped BFL to fool people for $25M. How they were together in CES.
They are actually participants in crime with BFL.

Bitpay probably needs to prepare good attorneys.

exactly what license are you saying is required to be a payment processor?  payment processors are not money transmitters.  the IRS clearly puts them into 2 different categories, with different rules and regulations.  we follow all of the rules that the government has set out for payment processors.  so you can waste your time explaining this to a bureaucrat all you like, or you can do something more productive for bitcoin.

[lucif]

I'll explain.

You probably will try to escape from responsibility with all BFL story, as you are third party processing payments.

I don't think you will be able to escape, because from legal point of view you just laundered money for BFL. That is only what SEC should know with different aspects.

This would be even more interesting for SEC taking into account upcomming events with Bitcoin gambling processing.

[lucif]

so you can waste your time explaining this to a bureaucrat all you like, or you can do something more productive for bitcoin.

I will waste dont worry. Time is money.

You know what? Do something productive for Bitcoin: BE FUCKING RESPONSIVE FOR YOUR DOINGS, FOR YOUR ADS AND YOUR SCAMMER FRIENDS.

[lucif]

I already notified your investors via Twitter about this rumor. I hope they read it and give you huge slap for doing business without any responsibility.

[lucif]

I know all your pain points without knowing you. I know all BFL pain points without knowing them. I can kill your business without spending a cent.

Don't give me a chance. Be resposive!

[BitPay Business Solutions]

glad they made the Ignore button

[lucif]

Allright   Even better

SEC officer reading this topic will not ignore

[prezbo]

Allright   Even better

SEC officer reading this topic will not ignore

Did you ever consider the entertainment business? You'd make a good comedian. Please don't stop.

[marketersales]

C'mon you must be kidding.

[cypherdoc]

Lucif.  Why don't you tell everyone here you have an open short position on Bitcoin  that is deeply under water.  Idiot.

I'm sure the SEC would love to hear from a market manipulator.

[lucif]

I am waiting for figure confirmation   Then short.

And comming shitstorm looks good. I dont tell a lie.

Just business, nothing personal.

And... oh... I am out of SEC jurisdiction

[cypherdoc]

anyone here who's interested in what's going on just needs to read this thread and the exchanges btwn lucif and myself:  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131065.0

lucif, then did you close your short bet?:  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131065.msg1407960#msg1407960

[tbcoin]

We need a "FUD MAKER"/"IGNORE THIS GUY"/ tag for people like lucif

[cypherdoc]

the most ironic thing of all is that lucif is a subscriber to my newsletter since October 2012 and has prepaid all the way thru March 2013.  he refuses to take a refund although i have begged him to do so several times both privately and publicly.  

the earliest i can discern that he's been short is October 2012.  that's a long way down from here...

[justusranvier]

We need a "FUD MAKER"/"IGNORE THIS GUY"/ tag for people like lucif

Sometimes his FUD is funny. I laughed at the the parody interview with the BFL customers video.

[BCB]

anyone here who's interested in what's going on just needs to read this thread and the exchanges btwn lucif and myself:  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131065.0

tl;dr

[BCB]

We need a "FUD MAKER"/"IGNORE THIS GUY"/ tag for people like lucif

Sometimes his FUD is funny. I laughed at the the parody interview with the BFL customers video.

++1 That was fucking hilarious.

lucif, I'm not sure you have future in market prediction.

But comedy Writing:  Oh Yea!

Please make one with hitler in the bunker.

[lucif]

Look, I don't change things. I am a small person  I could only a bit accelerate.

All job of big shitstorm already done by Bitpay, Basic and BFL.

All started and not going to stop.

[cypherdoc]

anyone here who's interested in what's going on just needs to read this thread and the exchanges btwn lucif and myself:  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131065.0

tl;dr

my posts are few and far btwn.  just focus on those and the interchanges around them.

[cypherdoc]

I am waiting for figure confirmation   Then short.

And comming shitstorm looks good. I dont tell a lie.

Just business, nothing personal.

And... oh... I am out of SEC jurisdiction

i think you have told a lie and the SEC would be very interested if that is true.  they don't care if you're in Russia.

[lucif]

SEC operating with frauds above $1 million dollars.

This is very applicable to Bitpay and BFL, but not me, as I dont have even $500k in bitcoins.

Cypher, I know a lot. I feel your fear.

[cypherdoc]

SEC operating with frauds above $1 million dollars.

This is very applicable to Bitpay and BFL, but not me, as I dont have even $500k in bitcoins.

Cypher, I know a lot. I feel your fear.

and i feel your losses.

[lucif]

looses, looses... bitcoin price trend steps ahead of WLSH-5000 for about a month, as it is completely speculative. And WLSH-5000 is about to drop in a month. This can not be stopped, sorry.

About money at all. Bitcoin will not see a big money until those idiots and criminals like BFL and Co operate here and Bitpay participate them. Serious money requires serious reponsibility.

And here is no responsibility at all. We must teach people for responsibility and keep services secure for futher upmove. But for now, sorry.

[cypherdoc]

looses, looses... bitcoin price trend steps ahead of WLSH-5000 for about a month. And WLSH-5000 is about to drop in a month. This can not be stopped, sorry.

About money at all. Bitcoin will not see a big money until those idiots and criminals like BFL and Co operate here and Bitpay participate them. Serious money requires serious reponsibility.

And here is no responsibility at all. We must teach people for responsibility and keep services secure for futher upmove. But for now, sorry.

how can you teach responsibility when you lie?

explain your "personal bet" that you admitted to me in public but now are disclaiming.

[lucif]

Sorry, but who is lying - is you. You lie to yourself and subscribers. Joseph lies to everybody. Everybody around just lie. Why I can't?  

Though I just tell a thruth, a bit exaggerated. You know, Satan tells a truth with a bit of lie. But all of you know the truth - where this situation could go.

The true way to exit is to reduce situation to an absurdity

[cypherdoc]

Sorry, but who is lying - is you. You lie to yourself and subscribers. Joseph lies to everybody. Everybody around just lie. Why I can't? 

Though I just tell a thruth, a bit exaggerated. You know, Satan tells a truth with a bit of lie. But all of you know the truth - where this situation could go.

well now, that kinda answer just about explains everything.  sad.

[lucif]

Enough talks - lets just wait where it will go

[cypherdoc]

Enough talks lies - lets just wait where it will go

[BCB]

Za druzhbu myezhdu narodami!

[lucif]

Aгa. Я вaм пoкaжy кyзькинy мaть!  



kidding, kidding

[BCB]

Гдe нaxoдитcя тyaлeт?

[lucif]

Гдe нaxoдитcя тyaлeт?

Here
http://www.butterflylabs.com/

[Phinnaeus Gage]

No. I hate lack of security and responsibility.

Actually what is killing bitcoin price?

1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

And now Bitpay with BFL crew.

How long this will continue? I like to kill them, not Bitcoin.

If we see a responsible secure bitcoin payment processor - I will shake it hand.

But we have slovens here so far.

With all due respect, lucif, I firmly believe BitPay is a reputable entity. As far as for BFL, I'm currently holding my tongue with the exception of adding humor to the choir. I've even reached out to Josh via a PM recently asking for advice, and he was kind enough to offer some in a reply.

[lucif]

Holy fuck, how long to explain? If bitpay so reputable - why they in direct connection with BFL? Why they stand in CES near potential criminals? Even potential! Do they realize where they put their balls deep?

Do the investors realize where they put their money?

This is all not done like that. This is not responsible.

[BCB]

Гдe нaxoдитcя тyaлeт?

Here
http://www.butterflylabs.com/

Xoтитe пoтaнцeвaть?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Holy fuck, how long to explain? If bitpay so reputable - why they in direct connection with BFL? Why they stand in CES near potential criminals? Even potential! Do they realize where they put their balls deep?

Do the investors realize where they put their money?

This is all not done like that. This is not responsible.

Possibly to split the cost of the $13K booth. I believe if BitPay felt that BFL was not reputable after doing due diligence, they would have chosen another partner or gone it alone. The same would be true with BFL as to whom they would team up with, not opting for a Pirate-type.

In retrospect, one can look at it as a short term marriage, with Tony having no desire to bed Josh's poodle. Stephen, OTOH... 

[lucif]

Well they sold their reputation for 13k. This is what they really cost. Like hookers. Nuff said.

[jwzguy]

Well they sold their reputation for 13k. This is what they really cost. Nuff said.

Only with FUD-ers like yourself.

[Micon]

1)   This is an epic pic.  Hope it's not shopped

2)   I cannot understand anyone angry at bitpay.  Full disclosure:  I have no position in that company other than holding a little-used merchant account for an e cigarette business yet to be launched publicly.  I do not own equity or work for them in any way, other than asking local Las Vegas businesses to accept bitcoin, with bitpay being the obvious provider with an easy setup for a 1% fee.

3)  Much like the restaurants around town, if they want to accept btc payments you use bitpay - it's just the best system to simplify it.  Why would you be mad at BFL using bitpay?  Why not just get mad at bitcoin?  

IMO, bitpay does a reasonable amount of due diligence before accepting a merchant.  They also have 1000's of merchants.  Anyone who wants to accept bitcoin quickly and easily calls up bitpay - that's the only BTC-processing company I thought of when in the formation stages of this new business happened last month.  

if you think about the earliest warning signs, BFL missing the 9/2012 shipping date was a sign - but that shouldn't have vilified them BFL quite yet - and certainly not Bitpay.  At some point a pre-order, unshipped, becomes fraud.  Did BFL need this money for R&D?  did they try to gamble their way out by selling more pre-orders and tried to find different sourcing?   Are they *still* looking for someone to make those chips in China?  Who can know the answers to these questions but the disrespectful and unprofessional humans behind the BFL project.  

I agree that at some point your BTC payment processor should drop you as a merchant if a situation like BFL's arises.  A "pre-order" signifies that their is a supply chain hold-up, we got the technology locked and loaded, and we only need a few weeks or maybe 2-3 months and then we will get you your product ASAP"   How long until a pre-order becomes fraud?  What if in 2014 BFL is still saying "We got those $30k boxes almost done - they will ship in a few more weeks in early 2015"   - do you accept that timeframe as a "pre-order"  ?    

When discussing what Bitpay's role in BFL processing was, it's very simple - they served the same function they do for *every other* one of their merchants - because this merchant appears to be working for evil, at some point you would expect bitpay to cut them off and say "no, we will not do your btc processing - there have been too many signs your company is a scam"

BFL guys are not as stupid as they look in this video cued to me asking Josh about the machines he brought to CES and him literally giving me a quarter and telling me to "Buy a fucking clue"

--> http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m40s   <--

To bitpay, up until recently the BFL guys could have seemed legit.   Let's see when they drop BFL.  I'll bet Bitpay is still around in a few years and BFL is long entered into book of BTC scams

[Micon]

Before the BFL shills tell me "oh, he's just doing this to make money" realize every time I put up a betsofbitcoin it is to prove a point and I bet 1 coin on the side I like:

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1141

Here is one that says that BFL does not show up to CES 2014

[Inaba]

Micon, you won't bet more than 10 BTC against BFL.  You were offered a 250, 500 and even a 1000 BTC bet by someone earlier, though I can't recall who.  Why did you not take them up on that?  If you're so sure you're correct, it would be easy money for you.  You're a gambler and a self admitted "Pro poker player" (This is laughable, but whatever) - so gambling a mere 1000 BTC is not an issue for you morally.  It's a sure thing, given your statements... so why not do it?  Or is it because you're just full of shit? 

I will dig up the name of whomever was willing to bet you 1000 BTC if you'll take the bet.  So, Mr. Pro Poker Player, put up or shut up. 

PS - That could have been a picture you took yourself with your the phone you're so proud of owning if you had not acted like an idiot at our booth.  Like I said, we had nothing to hide even though you so desperately wanted us to.

So what's it going to be?  Are you going to pony up and put up 1000 BTC to show you are not full of shit or are you going to hem and haw and come up with excuses why you won't bet on a sure thing, according to you?

[Raoul Duke]

I'm loving the retards who wish Bitpay to become Paypal...

Bitpal, anyone?

[farlack]

Why does it matter if a payment processor matched up with BFL, they were doing their own thing. Bitpay is the processor, and BFL is how to get the coins. Simple enough logic.

[nelisky]

I went to a restaurant and paid with my visa card, I got food poisoning... just reported visa to the appropriate health inspection authorities!

lol

[MooC Tals]

Micon, you won't bet more than 10 BTC against BFL.  You were offered a 250, 500 and even a 1000 BTC bet by someone earlier, though I can't recall who.  Why did you not take them up on that?  If you're so sure you're correct, it would be easy money for you.  You're a gambler and a self admitted "Pro poker player" (This is laughable, but whatever) - so gambling a mere 1000 BTC is not an issue for you morally.  It's a sure thing, given your statements... so why not do it?  Or is it because you're just full of shit?  

I will dig up the name of whomever was willing to bet you 1000 BTC if you'll take the bet.  So, Mr. Pro Poker Player, put up or shut up.  

PS - That could have been a picture you took yourself with your the phone you're so proud of owning if you had not acted like an idiot at our booth.  Like I said, we had nothing to hide even though you so desperately wanted us to.

So what's it going to be?  Are you going to pony up and put up 1000 BTC to show you are not full of shit or are you going to hem and haw and come up with excuses why you won't bet on a sure thing, according to you?

Speakin of bets did you indulge in the yes side? I wonder how much you would put to back your company?

One without guilt cast the first stone.

[the_thing]

Micon, you won't bet more than 10 BTC against BFL.  You were offered a 250, 500 and even a 1000 BTC bet by someone earlier, though I can't recall who.  Why did you not take them up on that?  If you're so sure you're correct, it would be easy money for you.  You're a gambler and a self admitted "Pro poker player" (This is laughable, but whatever) - so gambling a mere 1000 BTC is not an issue for you morally.  It's a sure thing, given your statements... so why not do it?  Or is it because you're just full of shit? 

I will dig up the name of whomever was willing to bet you 1000 BTC if you'll take the bet.  So, Mr. Pro Poker Player, put up or shut up. 

PS - That could have been a picture you took yourself with your the phone you're so proud of owning if you had not acted like an idiot at our booth.  Like I said, we had nothing to hide even though you so desperately wanted us to.

So what's it going to be?  Are you going to pony up and put up 1000 BTC to show you are not full of shit or are you going to hem and haw and come up with excuses why you won't bet on a sure thing, according to you?

I remember MNV offering a similar bet about Pirate not being a scammer. When he lost, he just didn't pay people their winnings and created a new account instead. Betting against a scammer is simply stupid. Because if the scammer is exposed he doesn't have a reason to pay as he has already lost his reputation. You're just creating a smoke screen in an attempt to conceal your scam. First you attacked everyone who claimed that the ASIC you had presented was just a box of fans, even though you later admitted it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZUPniBo5UQ#t=04m30s
(David Perry: Now this is just a case, you don't actually have ASICs ready.
You: Right.. we're eagerly awaiting them as everybody else I'm sure)
When lucif posted a photo that proves it, you're acting like everything's ok.

As for FUD, I hate how it became a buzzword that's used everytime someone expresses a doubt. BFL is suspicious and it repeatedly failed to fulfill its commitments. You can't deny it. I think a little FUD is more than appropriate.

[MPOE-PR]

Ahaha that's a great book!

the most ironic thing of all is that lucif is a subscriber to my newsletter since October 2012 and has prepaid all the way thru March 2013.  he refuses to take a refund although i have begged him to do so several times both privately and publicly.  

the earliest i can discern that he's been short is October 2012.  that's a long way down from here...

Wait, you were advising people to short in October? Or?

[ElectricMucus]

Actually while bitpay is innocent in regards to what BFL is doing they are involved enough to say that they matter:

The BFL preorders were their largest chunk of transactions conducted through them. That alone isn't problematic but what would make it problematic is if they had inside information on the status and structure of BFL.
If they would have had reasons to think that BFL is out to scam people more than is publicly known they would indeed be guilty of collaborating.

I doubt it, but just to get things straight... in the world of BTC anything is possible when it comes to (possible) scams.

[cypherdoc]

Ahaha that's a great book!

the most ironic thing of all is that lucif is a subscriber to my newsletter since October 2012 and has prepaid all the way thru March 2013.  he refuses to take a refund although i have begged him to do so several times both privately and publicly.  

the earliest i can discern that he's been short is October 2012.  that's a long way down from here...

Wait, you were advising people to short in October? Or?

no, i was advising ppl to BUY.

[Micon]

Micon, you won't bet more than 10 BTC against BFL.  You were offered a 250, 500 and even a 1000 BTC bet by someone earlier, though I can't recall who.  Why did you not take them up on that?  If you're so sure you're correct, it would be easy money for you.  You're a gambler and a self admitted "Pro poker player" (This is laughable, but whatever) - so gambling a mere 1000 BTC is not an issue for you morally.  It's a sure thing, given your statements... so why not do it?  Or is it because you're just full of shit? 

I will dig up the name of whomever was willing to bet you 1000 BTC if you'll take the bet.  So, Mr. Pro Poker Player, put up or shut up. 

PS - That could have been a picture you took yourself with your the phone you're so proud of owning if you had not acted like an idiot at our booth.  Like I said, we had nothing to hide even though you so desperately wanted us to.

So what's it going to be?  Are you going to pony up and put up 1000 BTC to show you are not full of shit or are you going to hem and haw and come up with excuses why you won't bet on a sure thing, according to you?

Hi Josh Zerlan.  Since you are using deflection to not answer the question of "when will BFL ship ASICs" and "What equipment did you bring to CES" and "How much $ have you collected in preorders" I will simply re-deflect and link to this video of you cursing at me at CES 2013 when I asked you to show me your hardware, cued to when you were extremely rude to me:

http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m36s

you are the director of a company owing the BTC community many, many $30k devices you already have collected much, much money in pre-orders for that you originally said you would ship in 9/2012 but can't seem to produce.  You are in the middle of getting destroyed across all discussions of this encounter.  Maybe you didn't realize I was the guy that made a big deal when I thought BCST was a scam:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/15/3243200/bitcoin-ponzi-schemes-savings-and-trust

Maybe you didn't realize that I have so much determination when it comes to ridding the BTC world of scum like Josh Zerlan & Butterfly Labs.  Such arrogance in the face of owing the community such a large amount of hardware is disgusting to me.

[SysRun]

Make your case Micon. Do you expect your conspiracy theory to have legs or just blowing off steam?

[elux]

Today, someone wrote something that deserves repeating here.
As an editiorial note, I added line breaks and underlines for clarity.

Thus spoke Inaba:

Seems to me, if you had a working test product, you'd have shown it by now, but maybe not.  Seems silly, though...
if you wanted to be the first, you would show your working prototype, that would qualify you as first at this point.  

What possible reason could you have for not showing a working unit 6 days before you are scheduled to ship?  

I don't care.  You are here, in the BFL thread trolling and you won't even demo a working product 5 days before you are shipping.

Seems like a crazy way go about things, but whatever man.

Like I said, if you're delayed, your project is dead and I believe you know this.  

I hope you aren't rushing things just to be first and shipping a brick in a box that fails to perform or breaks in a month.

I'm not a religious man, but my very first thought was:

...Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_and_the_Beam

[Micon]

Make your case Micon. Do you expect your conspiracy theory to have legs or just blowing off steam?

1)  a semi-serious answer to this question, which I feel is appropriate given Josh's childish nature of responses & repeated personal attacks on myself and my daughter:





2)  but seriously, please ask me exactly what you want to know about anything on my part.  I will answer you as honestly and completely as possible.  If your question is "Micon, how can you convict BFL right now?  Show me proof"  Then I cannot prove.  I can only tell you IMO what I believe, what I think of the men involved with that company, what body language they gave off and such scammer-like responses and deflection in their arguments.   If Josh Zerlan told you that he had a shipping container of ASICs that 100% work and will be here on 2/5/2013 it would be really hard for me to give you concrete proof that is not the case, but I would wager large amounts of coin that Josh Zerlan & BFL is not close to shipping ASIC chips.

3)  Josh Zerlan - since you are so interested in wagering, take the first coin of many I will bet against your scam:  http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1141

[smoothie]

Today, someone wrote something that deserves repeating here.
As an editiorial note, I added line breaks and underlines for clarity.

Thus spoke Inaba:

Seems to me, if you had a working test product, you'd have shown it by now, but maybe not.  Seems silly, though...
if you wanted to be the first, you would show your working prototype, that would qualify you as first at this point.  

What possible reason could you have for not showing a working unit 6 days before you are scheduled to ship?  

I don't care.  You are here, in the BFL thread trolling and you won't even demo a working product 5 days before you are shipping.

Seems like a crazy way go about things, but whatever man.

Like I said, if you're delayed, your project is dead and I believe you know this.  

I hope you aren't rushing things just to be first and shipping a brick in a box that fails to perform or breaks in a month.

I'm not a religious man, but my very first thought was:

...Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_and_the_Beam

+1 Nice catch. So funny because those questions he is asking are the same questions that when asked of BFL are the same answer as AVALON. No different.

[SysRun]

Trying to see through the malarkey, I hear you.

First question for you, Micon. Can you elaborate on your interaction with Dave on the first day you went to CES? There is some contention on what actually happened. Stomping around exclaiming "Its just a box with fans!" and dropping the F bomb is something you're purported to have done.

Also, the fake badge thing, well it makes you look less credible tbh... Not that you had it, but that you got caught...

But anyway, if you could just address the accusation about your behavior on the first day you visited CES.

I watched the video you put up and my concern is you are offended by your interaction and looking for a fight at any cost so that you feel you've gotten revenge.

[Micon]

Trying to see through the malarkey, I hear you.

First question for you, Micon. Can you elaborate on your interaction with Dave on the first day you went to CES? There is some contention on what actually happened. Stomping around exclaiming "Its just a box with fans!" and dropping the F bomb is something you're purported to have done.

Also, the fake badge thing, well it makes you look less credible tbh... Not that you had it, but that you got caught...

But anyway, if you could just address the accusation about your behavior on the first day you visited CES.

I watched the video you put up and my concern is you are offended by your interaction and looking for a fight at any cost so that you feel you've gotten revenge.

SysRun thanks for your questions.  I did not explain day 1 properly, and really wasn't planning on any of this happening, wasn't planning to make a scene or even come back the next day, but b/c of what happened on day 1 I felt compelled to post here and go back to get the full story the next day.  I told this story to some private skype conversations about BTC I am involved in, but never on these boards, and I should tell my side because Josh is very good at marketing, and instead of working on what must be massive supply chain issues for his company he does 24/7 damage control.

This is to the best I can remember.  I wasn't recording anything day 1, wasn't planning on anything but sneaking into CES to shake some BTC hands as I always do when BTC companies buy booths in Vegas for conventions.

1)  About "sneaking in" to CES:  I always "sneak in" to all conventions I want to go to here in Vegas.  I wear my WSOP media badge from a few years ago and just walk in like a boss.  Sure I could call whatever bitcoin-facing booth is there and have them give me a badge for the ~30 minutes I'll be there.  As will all conferences, the booth buyers usually need to pay extra for another badge, or at the very least pull a "hey let me use your badge and then I walk out with 2 badges and give one to you"   - I "sneak in" because it is +EV for everyone involved.  Next time, if ever, BFL comes to the conference I will acquire a legitimate badge as it was clear they called security to have me removed.  

2)  About the "stomping and cussing" on day 1 that Josh keeps referring to.  First off, Josh was not there day 1.  Only Dave was in the booth representing BFL.  I imagine Josh was off doing Yoga or other form of meditation & self-reflection.  We will get to that in a second.  Let's start at the beginning:

3)  Whenever a bitcoin booth at any conference comes to Vegas, I go to say hi, shake a hand, say "hey, I'm Micon.  I help Freemoney run SealsWithClubs, the market leading bitcoin online poker site."  And just see who is there and what they want to talk about, trade bitcoin ideas for ~20-30 minutes then be on my way.  I have done this many times and met a bunch of BTC industry leaders.  Erik Voorhees I met this way and he is an amazingly awesome human, and Charlie Shrem I met I think at the same Money2020 conference maybe 6 months ago or so at Aria, and I had Charlie on my donkdown podcast for an awesome interview about the bitinstant operation based in New York.  I was skeptical about parts of bitinstant and bitpay at the start, but when I asked the company directors of those organizations I was met with clear answers and follow up interviews.

4) Ok so I was on the same grind on day 1 CES - just go and meet the boys again, shake some hands, congratulate bitpay on the round of funding, etc.  My daughter was born ~ 2 weeks ago but I made time before picking my parents up at the airport to stop by CES to do this because I feel it is very important, + I'm a huge nerd and CES is nerd porn.  Right after the nerd porn convention they have a real porn convention here but that's not the point of this story.  When I found the Bitpay booth,  I didn't realize they would be sharing a booth with BFL, in fact I was very excited to see BFL equipment on display and I planned on asking some extremely nerdy questions about how the hardware will solve the proof-of-work problem much, much faster than current equipment.  I also wanted to understand the metrics of what ASIC will do to the network hash rate, as I understand mining conceptually but not technically.

5) Dave immediately engaged me when I walked near the BFL equipment.  I congratulated him on selling a large amount of pre-orders.  he said in a smug way "yeah... we've done very well"  To a studied poker professional such as myself, his body language gave me the impression that this man felt by collecting the pre-order monies he has already done well.   If I were in his shoes, the first thing I would have said was "We have a huge responsibility to get these things shipped ASAP.  The community has handed us a large amount of money"   I would feel like the weight of the world was on my shoulders to make good on the massively distributed promise of sending these machines.  Dave felt like a winner, IMO.

6)  I asked very plainly "is this your ASICs" or something to that effect.  This is when it got predatory.  He showed me the box of fans + 1 android tablet and said that is where ASIC chips will eventually go, and the android device will be the output screen to show you how fast it's mining and other stats.  I asked what the cube connected to a second android sitting on top of the fan-box was, and Dave said it's an FPGA miner that BFL used to sell, but it wasn't currently mining and you can't buy it from BFL anymore.  I asked Dave what items were available for purchase right now from BFL that they could ship immediately, he said there were none.  I then asked when they would ship ASICs, he said "in a couple of weeks," and showed me 3 cases that ASIC chips would come inside.

7)  After it was clear I was no longer a friendly and was asking some tough questions, he hit me with a classic scammer line something to the effect of "if you don't believe in BFL, then you don't believe in bitcoin."  This is where the "stomping and profanity" as Josh put it came in.  Please don't take Josh's or My word for it - Ask the bitpay guys about this next part - I give a very intelligent response to Dave, certainly using profanity for emphasis (but not in the personally derogatory way that Josh Zerlan does to me here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y&feature=youtu.be&t=2m43s ) more like "I believe so much in bitcoin that I wear this fucking button (point to bitcoin button I always wear when leaving the house for any reason) each day, and help run the market leading bitcoin online poker site, dedicating most of my awake time to the betterment of this technology."  Ask the bitpay guys.  I was certainly pissed off, and this guy used a classic scammer line on me and IMO it required a forceful response so Dave understands that I'm a real guy with real BTC credentials, and his line is bullshit and +1's in my head that he and his company are dishonest.

 After my response, emotions briefly settled, and I asked him when filled with ASICs how fast this machine would hash at.  He said something like 1+ T-hashes per second.  I.e. 1000 ghashes/s , would produce in terms of Dave did not know network hashrate.  I told him it wasn't a test, just tell me about how many T-hashes/s the network hash rate was.  Dave said he still didn't know, so I quickly looked it up on my Galaxy Note II by Samsung running Android Jellybean OS by removing the S-pen and quickly speaking into google "total bitcoin network hashrate"   This site came up: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/  and to me it looks like the current total bitcoin network hashrate is around 20-25 Thash/s - which means that if Dave was right, just one of these boxes could have ~ 6% of total current network hashing power.   I was surprised he had never run the math before...

9) so after this, I post the pic I took and illustrated that BFL did not bring anything worthwhile to CES.  I posted on bitcointalk that I'd be back tomorrow to film closely and ask the tough questions.  Obviously we all saw Josh Zerlan's response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y&feature=youtu.be&t=2m43s


If there is anything that needs clarification please ask.  I am 100% transparent.  I further state that it is possible I have made a small chronological or grammatical error of some sort.  I feel I captured the general feel of the day 1 CES experience as it relates to BFL.

[SysRun]

That helps us piece together the events. Thanks.

If I haven't said it before, congrats on becoming a father. I hope all is well on that front.

I've never interacted with Dave from BFL, so I can't speak to how competent he is.

It sounds like Dave relayed the story to Josh and may have missed your intentions for being there.

My suggestion is to let tempers cool a bit and have Josh on your podcast sometime AFTER BFL ships.

It would, of course, be more entertaining to cointinue the drama, but some of us are more interested in facts. Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.

[Uglux]

blablabla... I was certainly pissed off, and this guy used a classic scammer line on me and IMO it required a forceful response so Dave understands that I'm a real guy with real BTC credentials, and his line is bullshit and +1's in my head that he and his company are dishonest. ... blabla

Micon can teach his daughter a lesson about honesty in some years ... "Sneaking" into a convention.

[CharlieContent]

Josh from BFL is such an ugly fucker. IT people in general aren't much to look at, but he has a truly awful face.

[mrb]

I don't remember these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

Then your memory isn't very good. See here re Pirate. MtGox hack destroyed bitcoin for three quarters, it went from 30 to .01 and the recovery is not complete to this day. Etc.

You are wrong about MtGox. I reported on the hack: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=55 The price never went down to .01 as these were bogus trades that were later reversed. And you failed to read my explanation of the bubble popping:

The reason of the price decrease between Jun and Dec 2011 was an popping of the valuation bubble, not the MtGox hack. In fact, BTC had already lost half of its peak value ($30 down to $15) before the hack had even occurred. I would even argue that the hack helped slow down the rate at which BTC was loosing value: MtGox suspended trading for a full week, allowing traders to cool down, and its rate managed to stay above $15 for a full 2+ weeks after trading was re-opened, a period during which anybody who wanted out presumably sold. It then progressively decreased over the next few months, but it was obviously a continuation of the popping of the valuation bubble.

Besides, why would the hack affect the price multiple months later? Some investor waking up in December after a 6-month coma, telling himself, "damn MtGox was hacked in June, I should sell now!" This makes no sense. If anything, the hack should have affected the price in the days (not months) following the re-opening of the market, but it did not.

[mrb]

the red circle shows the fall of the price after Pirate's operation shut down.
the blue circle shows the fall after glbse getting closed.

I remember the day of the event of the red circle: this was pirate placing a handful of very large sell orders (he was announcing them on IRC minutes before doing it). But as the graph shows, the market recovered very quickly after this day. So, again, I fail to see any evidence that pirate caused Bitcoin to lose its value on the long term. On the contrary, people were buying BTC to invest in pirate, causing the price to slightly increase for multiple months, until BTCST defaulted.

As to the blue circle, it is not evident that this was caused by glbse. It just seems to be regular volatility. Even if glbse was the cause, this was not a significant event.

[the_thing]

I don't remember these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

I remember the day of the event of the red circle: this was pirate placing a handful of very large sell orders (he was announcing them on IRC minutes before doing it). But as the graph shows, the market recovered very quickly after this day.

So you basically contradict yourself.
>Pirate didn't cause a decrease of Bitcoin's price
>Pirate caused a decrease of Bitcoin's price, but it recovered quickly

[Micon]

That helps us piece together the events. Thanks.

If I haven't said it before, congrats on becoming a father. I hope all is well on that front.

I've never interacted with Dave from BFL, so I can't speak to how competent he is.

It sounds like Dave relayed the story to Josh and may have missed your intentions for being there.

My suggestion is to let tempers cool a bit and have Josh on your podcast sometime AFTER BFL ships.

It would, of course, be more entertaining to cointinue the drama, but some of us are more interested in facts. Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.

TYVM about my little girl - she changed my life instantly.  I'm not very emotional in general, and cried for the first 5 days whenever I would see my beautiful wife holding my beautiful daughter and realized how insanely lucky I have gotten in this world and how I should enjoy every second of these special moments.  I basically have been on auto-show any other human I come in contact with my baby pix, and I never understood why ppl did that to me when I didn't care about their baby, but I totally get it now.   Her name is Anna Micon and I call her the annamicon (ah-nah-mah-con) & she is a singularity & she will continue the crypto-activist revolution born from this currency.  All the nerds will follow the hot & smart female crypto-anarchist or crypto-activist whichever she prefers.

BFL Josh Zerlan or anyone else from Butterfly labs is welcome on my podcast any time they wish.  It usually runs Wed. 7pm live, then podcasted later, but i'll make time day or night to have this debate.  No editing of any sort and if BFL is concerned we can do exactly equal time to speak.  Others can record and upload to make sure no edits or funny business.  I highly doubt a company like BFL, which I can poke endless holes through their business by asking the tough questions, would ever agree to this.  Offer on the table for literally any time, day or night, starting now.

[smoothie]

That helps us piece together the events. Thanks.

If I haven't said it before, congrats on becoming a father. I hope all is well on that front.

I've never interacted with Dave from BFL, so I can't speak to how competent he is.

It sounds like Dave relayed the story to Josh and may have missed your intentions for being there.

My suggestion is to let tempers cool a bit and have Josh on your podcast sometime AFTER BFL ships.

It would, of course, be more entertaining to cointinue the drama, but some of us are more interested in facts. Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.

TYVM about my little girl - she changed my life instantly.  I'm not very emotional in general, and cried for the first 5 days whenever I would see my beautiful wife holding my beautiful daughter and realized how insanely lucky I have gotten in this world and how I should enjoy every second of these special moments.  I basically have been on auto-show any other human I come in contact with my baby pix, and I never understood why ppl did that to me when I didn't care about their baby, but I totally get it now.   Her name is Anna Micon and I call her the annamicon (ah-nah-mah-con) & she is a singularity & she will continue the crypto-activist revolution born from this currency.  All the nerds will follow the hot & smart female crypto-anarchist or crypto-activist whichever she prefers.

BFL Josh Zerlan or anyone else from Butterfly labs is welcome on my podcast any time they wish.  It usually runs Wed. 7pm live, then podcasted later, but i'll make time day or night to have this debate.  No editing of any sort and if BFL is concerned we can do exactly equal time to speak.  Others can record and upload to make sure no edits or funny business.  I highly doubt a company like BFL, which I can poke endless holes through their business by asking the tough questions, would ever agree to this.  Offer on the table for literally any time, day or night, starting now.

Would love to hear this. Deja Vu of MNW.

+1

[mrb]

So you basically contradict yourself.
>Pirate didn't cause a decrease of Bitcoin's price
>Pirate caused a decrease of Bitcoin's price, but it recovered quickly

Pirate did cause an extremely short-lived (24-48 hours) decrease of the price, yes.

But I was arguing with lucif who used the expression "killing bitcoin price". My point is that I disagree that a short-lived volatility can be described by his words.

[dust]

I don't remember these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

I remember the day of the event of the red circle: this was pirate placing a handful of very large sell orders (he was announcing them on IRC minutes before doing it). But as the graph shows, the market recovered very quickly after this day.

So you basically contradict yourself.
>Pirate didn't cause a decrease of Bitcoin's price
>Pirate caused a decrease of Bitcoin's price, but it recovered quickly

Pirate caused the increase in BTC price that preceded the decrease he caused (See my post here). His net effect on BTC price is unknown and probably negligible.

[MooC Tals]

http://mineforeman.com/2013/01/14/butterfly-labs-names-a-shipping-date/

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-3.html#post10314
BFL Josh quoted

"Just so everyone understands why we have not, up until now, provided updates like this, I want to point out that if we had released this type of information in the beginning, it would have given our competitors a substantial boost in figuring out how to design a product that would compete with us. This is something we do not want to happen. We will not pay for others to learn from our experience in this particular venture. They need to pay the piper if they want to ship a competing product. Since Avalon is commited at this point and bASIC is dead, there is now no harm in releasing the information. I suspect Avalon will run into the same heat issues we ran into once they finally turn on a unit and make it go. In fact, it may be much worse since they are on 110nm and have 80+ chips (speculation) to cool. On the other hand, it may simply be because the heat density in our full custom 65nm chip just overwhelms a QFN package cooled by vias and doing the same thing on a place and route 110nm QFN would work ok. We have not tried it, so who's to say. But my point is, we can't release that sort of information while it still will benefit our competition. The same goes for specific timelines - it will give the competition something specific to shoot for. Again, Avalon is now committed and there is nothing they can do to change it with 5 days to go, so the release of that information is acceptable.

Going forward, I will be posting more detailed updates, since that sort of information will not benefit Avalon. They either ship on the 19th or they delay and nothing we reveal can change that.

So expect more frequent, more accurate updates going forward."


BFL NAMES SHIPPING DATE

Honestly I think he had to post this to stop the cancellations. I don't think this changes anything.
discuss

[Red_Evil]

BFL must life from anything ... the new Building cost lots of money or ?
The Employers doesnt works with Love .... ect .. pp

So I think they can get a problem if more People cancel her order and the last one will Lose all .... O.o
I Cancel my 20 Jalapenos ... and its Done ...

[lucif]

Another interview with Josh

Turn on subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SnUObMd0o

[maqifrnswa]

BFL must life from anything ... the new Building cost lots of money or ?
The Employers doesnt works with Love .... ect .. pp

So I think they can get a problem if more People cancel her order and the last one will Lose all .... O.o
I Cancel my 20 Jalapenos ... and its Done ...

You bought 20 Jalapenos? Even if they were shipping today you should cancel your order, that's a waste of money

20x4.5 GH/s = 90 GH/s for 20x$149 = $2980


For $2598 you could have had 120GH/s if you purchased 2 singles...

[MooC Tals]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaysTVcounI

Another interview?

[cypherdoc]

Another interview with Josh

Turn on subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SnUObMd0o

lol.  ok, i'm convinced; you need to give up TA and go into comedy.  but change your nick.

just imagine; lucif in the "making ppl happy" business.

[MPOE-PR]

Besides, why would the hack affect the price multiple months later? Some investor waking up in December after a 6-month coma, telling himself, "damn MtGox was hacked in June, I should sell now!" This makes no sense. If anything, the hack should have affected the price in the days (not months) following the re-opening of the market, but it did not.

With a good set of preconceived notions you can proceed deductively to "prove" anything. I happen not to think much of your set, is all.

[SouthernComfort]

Thats a awesome booth, I definitely will be there this year il make sure to stop by!

[greyhawk]

Thats a awesome booth, I definitely will be there this year il make sure to stop by!

Good luck with that.

[Micon]

Judging by the deafening silence in this thread by a once aggressive Josh Zerlan, the BFL group has apparently has moved to full damage control in reaction to Josh's unprofessional interaction with me on the CES floor [in case you have been reading this thread under a rock] --> http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m36s

Josh recently posted some dates I want to bet BFL will miss:    https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html#post10249

And most interesting to me is this recent post by Josh Zerlan:   https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-5.html#post10399

"Another delay we've had to endure is the fact that we have effectively tied the ASIC teams payment to the success of the chip. If the chip were to be a failure they don't get paid... so they have incentive to get it right but that has made them very cautious and slow to approve final masks (This is why we can refund all pre-orders we want and why we have the capital to do what we need to do without a failure putting us in bankruptcy). "

Seems like they treated the pre-order money like a round a funding, not quite sure if a product could be produced with the funds received as "pre-orders" - he also seems to slip up here, saying that they have the capital to do what they need - capital raised from the pre-orders.  I wonder how much of that pre-order money is going to pay the salaries of BFL employees. 

I'm now moving on with this part of my investigation in the "scam accusations" section of this forum, as CES 2013 is over:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0
 

[Inaba]

No Bryan, I'm not trashing Bitpays thread to respond to your ignorance and stupidity.  Unlike you, I pay respect to people who deserve it.  You're just a punk bitch who can't tell his head from his ass.

PS - Still waiting for the "Fuck You Machine" you promised me.

[Micon]

No Bryan, I'm not trashing Bitpays thread to respond to your ignorance and stupidity.  Unlike you, I pay respect to people who deserve it.  You're just a punk bitch who can't tell his head from his ass.

PS - Still waiting for the "Fuck You Machine" you promised me.

1)  your hubris will be your downfall

2)  you "trashed bitpay's thread" a handful of times already, using personal insults and even considering my <3 week old daughter in one of them.  Because your memory is selective and your denial palpable, maybe you need quotes and links:

2a)
[first 'tilt-response' when you accuse me of cussing at you and your employees, yet you did that to me as evident here: http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m38s ]
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133487.msg1447190#msg1447190

2b)
[Josh takes offense to anti-semetic joke before he realized my parents were born into this odd categorization of "jewish" while still launching venomous replies] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133487.msg1447244#msg1447244

2c) [Josh Zerlan says I have BO, the official lowbrow mark of this argument IMO]
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133487.msg1448058#msg1448058

2d) [deflection & straw-manning from BFL not showing up at CES with ASICs, citing poker and refuting straw-man arguments]
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133487.msg1448867#msg1448867

3)  just because you have access to a Reddit down-voter doesn't mean this video wont get a run on /bitcoin.  The "Fuck you machine" is not a button or a bomb.  Think of it more like an insurgency you can't fight all aspects of at all times.  Certainly you seem concerned with it enough to monitor this thread, other threads here, youtube, and reddit.

[Micon]

Micon,

For those of you wondering why I told him to buy a clue, he was berating one of my employees and cussing at them, in public, at our booth and making a general scene yesterday, stomping around and yelling "IS IT JUST A FUCKING BOX WITH A FANS?!" over and over. Yes, he was literally stomping around like a child.  I figured that was the end of it, but apparently he decided to show up again today, so I was ready for him.

How did you see this if you were not in the booth? 

how can you say:

Yes, he was literally stomping around like a child.  

and you weren't even there? 

Since your memory is selective and your denial palpable, I will post my full account of day 1 CES again for you:

This is to the best I can remember.  I wasn't recording anything day 1, wasn't planning on anything but sneaking into CES to shake some BTC hands as I always do when BTC companies buy booths in Vegas for conventions.

1)  About "sneaking in" to CES:  I always "sneak in" to all conventions I want to go to here in Vegas.  I wear my WSOP media badge from a few years ago and just walk in like a boss.  Sure I could call whatever bitcoin-facing booth is there and have them give me a badge for the ~30 minutes I'll be there.  As will all conferences, the booth buyers usually need to pay extra for another badge, or at the very least pull a "hey let me use your badge and then I walk out with 2 badges and give one to you"   - I "sneak in" because it is +EV for everyone involved.  Next time, if ever, BFL comes to the conference I will acquire a legitimate badge as it was clear they called security to have me removed. 

2)  About the "stomping and cussing" on day 1 that Josh keeps referring to.  First off, Josh was not there day 1.  Only Dave was in the booth representing BFL.  I imagine Josh was off doing Yoga or other form of meditation & self-reflection.  We will get to that in a second.  Let's start at the beginning:

3)  Whenever a bitcoin booth at any conference comes to Vegas, I go to say hi, shake a hand, say "hey, I'm Micon.  I help Freemoney run SealsWithClubs, the market leading bitcoin online poker site."  And just see who is there and what they want to talk about, trade bitcoin ideas for ~20-30 minutes then be on my way.  I have done this many times and met a bunch of BTC industry leaders.  Erik Voorhees I met this way and he is an amazingly awesome human, and Charlie Shrem I met I think at the same Money2020 conference maybe 6 months ago or so at Aria, and I had Charlie on my donkdown podcast for an awesome interview about the bitinstant operation based in New York.  I was skeptical about parts of bitinstant and bitpay at the start, but when I asked the company directors of those organizations I was met with clear answers and follow up interviews.

4) Ok so I was on the same grind on day 1 CES - just go and meet the boys again, shake some hands, congratulate bitpay on the round of funding, etc.  My daughter was born ~ 2 weeks ago but I made time before picking my parents up at the airport to stop by CES to do this because I feel it is very important, + I'm a huge nerd and CES is nerd porn.  Right after the nerd porn convention they have a real porn convention here but that's not the point of this story.  When I found the Bitpay booth,  I didn't realize they would be sharing a booth with BFL, in fact I was very excited to see BFL equipment on display and I planned on asking some extremely nerdy questions about how the hardware will solve the proof-of-work problem much, much faster than current equipment.  I also wanted to understand the metrics of what ASIC will do to the network hash rate, as I understand mining conceptually but not technically.

5) Dave immediately engaged me when I walked near the BFL equipment.  I congratulated him on selling a large amount of pre-orders.  he said in a smug way "yeah... we've done very well"  To a studied poker professional such as myself, his body language gave me the impression that this man felt by collecting the pre-order monies he has already done well.   If I were in his shoes, the first thing I would have said was "We have a huge responsibility to get these things shipped ASAP.  The community has handed us a large amount of money"   I would feel like the weight of the world was on my shoulders to make good on the massively distributed promise of sending these machines.  Dave felt like a winner, IMO.

6)  I asked very plainly "is this your ASICs" or something to that effect.  This is when it got predatory.  He showed me the box of fans + 1 android tablet and said that is where ASIC chips will eventually go, and the android device will be the output screen to show you how fast it's mining and other stats.  I asked what the cube connected to a second android sitting on top of the fan-box was, and Dave said it's an FPGA miner that BFL used to sell, but it wasn't currently mining and you can't buy it from BFL anymore.  I asked Dave what items were available for purchase right now from BFL that they could ship immediately, he said there were none.  I then asked when they would ship ASICs, he said "in a couple of weeks," and showed me 3 cases that ASIC chips would come inside.

7)  After it was clear I was no longer a friendly and was asking some tough questions, he hit me with a classic scammer line something to the effect of "if you don't believe in BFL, then you don't believe in bitcoin."  This is where the "stomping and profanity" as Josh put it came in.  Please don't take Josh's or My word for it - Ask the bitpay guys about this next part - I give a very intelligent response to Dave, certainly using profanity for emphasis (but not in the personally derogatory way that Josh Zerlan does to me here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y&feature=youtu.be&t=2m43s ) more like "I believe so much in bitcoin that I wear this fucking button (point to bitcoin button I always wear when leaving the house for any reason) each day, and help run the market leading bitcoin online poker site, dedicating most of my awake time to the betterment of this technology."  Ask the bitpay guys.  I was certainly pissed off, and this guy used a classic scammer line on me and IMO it required a forceful response so Dave understands that I'm a real guy with real BTC credentials, and his line is bullshit and +1's in my head that he and his company are dishonest.

  After my response, emotions briefly settled, and I asked him when filled with ASICs how fast this machine would hash at.  He said something like 1+ T-hashes per second.  I.e. 1000 ghashes/s , would produce in terms of Dave did not know network hashrate.  I told him it wasn't a test, just tell me about how many T-hashes/s the network hash rate was.  Dave said he still didn't know, so I quickly looked it up on my Galaxy Note II by Samsung running Android Jellybean OS by removing the S-pen and quickly speaking into google "total bitcoin network hashrate"   This site came up: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/  and to me it looks like the current total bitcoin network hashrate is around 20-25 Thash/s - which means that if Dave was right, just one of these boxes could have ~ 6% of total current network hashing power.   I was surprised he had never run the math before...

9) so after this, I post the pic I took and illustrated that BFL did not bring anything worthwhile to CES.  I posted on bitcointalk that I'd be back tomorrow to film closely and ask the tough questions.  Obviously we all saw Josh Zerlan's response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y&feature=youtu.be&t=2m43s


If there is anything that needs clarification please ask.  I am 100% transparent.  I further state that it is possible I have made a small chronological or grammatical error of some sort.  I feel I captured the general feel of the day 1 CES experience as it relates to BFL.

feel free to not answer this, deflect, and strawman as you get destroyed more.  BTW I'm working on a Reddit up-voter so you better be reloading /bitcoin all day today in addition to not doing anything for your customers demanding refunds or chips.

[ElectricMucus]

Here is a serious question for you Inaba:

Why didn't you guys simply bring the PCBs showcased in the advertisement pictures with bitcoin magazine? Why didn't you bring pictures of the design process, like renderings of the chips surface, concepts rendering of the hardware and working samples the existing hardware? For example a _working_ FPGA minirig?

[Micon]

PS - Still waiting for the "Fuck You Machine" you promised me.

Fyi I made this image with my Samsung Galaxy Note II using the "hold down S-pen" feature and have recently expanded its memory with a 32gb ultra micro-SD card

[Frizz23]

Hi Bryan,

Josh deletes posting like this all the time!

Inconvenient questions or people posting facts or sometimes simply posts that prove him wrong. His bloated ego can't take being wrong. Like in this deleted post here:

Another one bites the dust ...

Thou shall not doubt the all-knowing Josh/Inaba, or stop him from spreading rubbish. Or you get deleted. Like this fella here:


A playstation 3?



... and it's gone: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/hardware-discussion/514-playstation-3-a.html#post7665

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm thinking the temporary marriage between BitPay and BFL to split the $13K booth rate was arranged last summer or so. Surely not in November or December, for the booth needed to be locked in and artwork for the display had to get underway.

Regardless of whatever sentiment may have arisen after that, it's good business etiquette to honor and maintain the marriage unless, of course, one of the parties is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a nefarious entity (of which the underlined clause isn't the case), then you annul the contract. Otherwise, move forward, as they both did, and hope for a great show, and build further mind share for Bitcoin--as they both did.

Full disclosure: This post was written on my Toshiba Satellite A135-S7404 while sitting on the porcelain throne that may, or may not, need a good cleaning with equal portions of bleach and ammonia. (apologies to Bryan)

[Micon]

I'm thinking the temporary marriage between BitPay and BFL to split the $13K booth rate was arranged last summer or so. Surely not in November or December, for the booth needed to be locked in and artwork for the display had to get underway.

Regardless of whatever sentiment may have arisen after that, it's good business etiquette to honor and maintain the marriage unless, of course, one of the parties is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a nefarious entity (of which the underlined clause isn't the case), then you annul the contract. Otherwise, move forward, as they both did, and hope for a great show, and build further mind share for Bitcoin--as they both did.

Full disclosure: This post was written on my Toshiba Satellite A135-S7404 while sitting on the porcelain throne that may, or may not, need a good cleaning with equal portions of bleach and ammonia. (apologies to Bryan)

1)  As long as bitpay distances themselves starting now I don't see how the community would find fault.  I have said this over and over and I'm saying it again because the other bullshit is on repeat around here, so the good needs to be said multiple times too:  Bitpay is doing damn fine work for the bitcoin community.  They allow small businesses to instantly and easily accept bitcoin.  They are actively spreading the bitcoin gospel and taking a very fair 0.99% along the way and I hope they make a killing and I will do anything personally to support them.

2) lolz.  And clean your turlet!

[lucif]

1)  As long as bitpay distances themselves starting now I don't see how the community would find fault.  I have said this over and over and I'm saying it again because the other bullshit is on repeat around here, so the good needs to be said multiple times too:  Bitpay is doing damn fine work for the bitcoin community.  They allow small businesses to instantly and easily accept bitcoin.  They are actively spreading the bitcoin gospel and taking a very fair 0.99% along the way and I hope they make a killing and I will do anything personally to support them.

2) lolz.  And clean your turlet!

Yeah, they perfectly spread bitcoin gospel staying beside BFL on CES and being their payment processor.

Bitpay will bury all their gospel affords (and Bitcoin reputation itself) when shitstorm around BFL start with federal comissions investigations.

Their potentional clients reading this topic.

This is what happened when people don't know what they do and don't figure futher impact of their doings. When they stupid enough to do not watch their steps. This is the perfect way to burn all investments.

[Micon]

PS - Still waiting for the "Fuck You Machine" you promised me.

something more like this then?

http://joshzerlan.com/

[iCEBREAKER]

PS - Still waiting for the "Fuck You Machine" you promised me.

something more like this then?

http://joshzerlan.com/

 

Ha, epic!  Smoothie, ElectricMucus, and I are going to have to step up our troll game to compete.

How many BTC/LTC will you give me to change my sig to "I can't understand you over your fucking stupidity?" 

[CharlieContent]

PS - Still waiting for the "Fuck You Machine" you promised me.

something more like this then?

http://joshzerlan.com/

This should be a lesson to everyone, register your fucking name if you can.

Good work Micon, that'll drive the ugly fucker up the wall.

[organofcorti]

register your fucking name if you can.

Your fucking name - that's the same as your porn name, right?

[Akka]

register your fucking name if you can.

Damn it. I was to slow. They already made a filth side about me: http://www.akka.eu/

[greyhawk]

How the hell do you think I feel?

Apparently I build boob towers.

http://www.greyhawk.com/consulting/newtown_creek.shtml



Hmmm, that DOES feel pretty good actually...

[SgtSpike]

http://www.sgtspike.com/
Open for opportunities, apparently.

[MooC Tals]

PS - Still waiting for the "Fuck You Machine" you promised me.

something more like this then?

http://joshzerlan.com/

Oh man If Josh turns out to be OK, Promise me you'll remove this.

Have a heart man!!!

If he's a scammer I have some Idea's

[DobZombie]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the anti-semetic joke he tried to tell me about at the end.   I can't wait to see if he posts that part... Fortunately I do have video of that portion with clear audio.

Has this been posted yet?  It'd be nice to see the other side of this coin.

[greyhawk]

Has this been posted yet?  It'd be nice to see the other side of this coin.

I think it was a normal quarter. Nothing unusual about it on either side.

[franky1]

although BFL's PR has been completely shoddy.

i truly believe that micon is now just repeating himself posting the same video link multiple times which has now meandered into a never ending argument with no set goal to be achieved.

the simple point is BFL have many many failings. BFLJosh/inaba, a coder should not have been employed as a PR guy and BFL itself, should have worked out months ago how many chips they would receive in the first batch. and closed pre-orders once that quota of orders was reached. only to re open the pre-order payment page once they get a quota for their second batch.

and not to be spending money on google sponsored adverts or promising people equipment if they advertise the products, yet to be built, or estimated to be built by X date.

basically if they were promised 10k of chips in first batch they would have priced the cost of this. and set their pre-order pricing accordingly dependant on how many chips are required per product. all R&D is inclusive in the pre-order price.

thus no requirement to continually request funds because the cost of the pre-order pays for that chip amount, end product build and labour costs.  if they are proposing to make 1000* units in the first batch then they only need to accept 1000* pre-orders. before cutting off the payment page, locking in those people into batch 1.
(*numbers are not factual, just illustrative examples)

i advise them to close off their pre-order payment page until they have clear deadlines, clear production yields and clear costing prices for batch 2. and set the limits of available pre-orders. then closing off that months pre-order payment page once the limit is reached. to lock in customers to those deadlines.

[SouthernComfort]

I wonder when Bitcoin-facing businesses, BFL included, will realize that conferences, trade shows, and such are an opportunity to introduce Bitcoin to the uninitiated, instead of wasting time preaching to the choir or staging incestoid incidents related to issues only bitcoiners understand. Specifically, BFL should have made their working FPGA the centerpiece, instead of the highly controversial, and in fact sensitive, topic of ASICs. Non-bitcoiners really don't give a damn, and we all just look stupid in front of them. Bitcoin looks stupid. Inaba and Micon are actually on the same team - the team that has been doing damage, no matter what their intentions are. I hope they realize this, and finally focus properly when it comes to public events. Public events - this forum included.

[ElectricMucus]

I wonder when Bitcoin-facing businesses, BFL included, will realize that conferences, trade shows, and such are an opportunity to introduce Bitcoin to the uninitiated, instead of wasting time preaching to the choir or staging incestoid incidents related to issues only bitcoiners understand. Specifically, BFL should have made their working FPGA the centerpiece, instead of the highly controversial, and in fact sensitive, topic of ASICs. Non-bitcoiners really don't give a damn, and we all just look stupid in front of them. Bitcoin looks stupid. Inaba and Micon are actually on the same team - the team that has been doing damage, no matter what their intentions are. I hope they realize this, and finally focus properly when it comes to public events. Public events - this forum included.

+9001

[MooC Tals]

I wonder when Bitcoin-facing businesses, BFL included, will realize that conferences, trade shows, and such are an opportunity to introduce Bitcoin to the uninitiated, instead of wasting time preaching to the choir or staging incestoid incidents related to issues only bitcoiners understand. Specifically, BFL should have made their working FPGA the centerpiece, instead of the highly controversial, and in fact sensitive, topic of ASICs. Non-bitcoiners really don't give a damn, and we all just look stupid in front of them. Bitcoin looks stupid. Inaba and Micon are actually on the same team - the team that has been doing damage, no matter what their intentions are. I hope they realize this, and finally focus properly when it comes to public events. Public events - this forum included.

I understand why your angry. I also understand the need for forums.  I don't agree with your post.

I want to know when someone could possibly be a scammer. When a thread is stupid I don't read it. I also believe your post has as much right to be here as their posts.

Thats what freedom of speech is imo  Who's team are you on? and who's team you think I'm on?

Lines are not so defined now, Right?

[lucif]

Photo for SEC and FTC officers

Cheese!

[BCB]

lucif

you forgot to label the cute girls.

[lucif]

Women are unresposible persons.

[greyhawk]

Is that guy in the back wearing a button down shirt? At a tech expo? Christ, did no one ever bother to tell him how not to dress like a dork? New wealthy elite, my ass.

[BCB]

In Russia women are unresposible persons.

ftfy

[MooC Tals]

I bet it's their wives. From what I heard that they're not the same girl's as last years. Maybe their wives were upset that they decided to come by this time.

Women are so jealous.

[smoothie]

Photo for SEC and FTC officers

Cheese!

you forgot the "empty box with fans"...i mean ASICszzz

[420]

what happens when ASIC's are real

[Piper67]

what happens when ASIC's are real

Miners will buy them 

If your question is what happens to Bitcoin, the answer is, at most, a little bit of increased excitement for about a week (depending on when they become available with regards to the difficulty cycle). Other than that, a block is a block is a block.

[Gabi]

what happens when ASIC's are real

Then we will be

[MooC Tals]

What if asic's are real? So Josh is still a goof. Did you see his last update? I'll paraphrase

"The date is still on although its not a firm date and if its a worse case scenario it will be a little later but not as late as we all though it could be cuz that would suck and make me look like a liar but we all know that I don't lie cus I'm as slippery as a politician now hand me your god damn babies so I can kiss them....Fuck you errr I mean thank you!!!"

You would think someone with enough shit coming out his mouth would choke on it every once in a while.

[lucif]

Even they are real... Rising price will provide too much temptations for big fuckup to be happen. However I did discribed that already (and gmaxwell tried to shut my mouth).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136880.0

I see this community loves fairy tales, not the sad truth. If I say truth - I get ignores and troll tag =) But I don't care.

[milly6]

 Also, you fail to note that I made absolutely no attempt to stop you from filming anything and you could, in fact, have filmed the equipment up close if you so chose.  But you to try to be cute and "interview" me the same way you "interviewed" Dave, which I have no doubt would have resulted in you stomping around and cussing at people again.


But you were right about one thing... I do regret that encounter.  I still can't get the smell of your BO out of my nose, ugh.

+1 Props Josh

[Bicknellski]

Why are we waiting?

[MooC Tals]

Why are we waiting?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2176432#msg2176432

Here's the latest update