Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[dre1982]

On Sky Sports Italy the shown the same case in the same track between Alonso (in Verstappen location ) and Vetten (Hamilton) happened in 2010 ish.
Alonso didn't close the turn and let Vettel pass otherwise was a collusion.

We can even look at the situation later in Sunday's race, where Hamilton overtook Leclerc to take the lead in the closing laps. It was almost a perfect copy of the position on lap 1, at the same corner, Hamilton coming up on the inside... and Leclerc left room for him by taking a wider line. It's what most drivers would do.

Verstappen gave more room then Leclerc did in that corner. Nice to see how the Hamilton fanboys just can't handle this.

Leclerc almost did a miracle with the Ferrari.
Ferrari already stopped the upgrades for this car 2 months ago while Mercedes and Redbull will be in war till the end of the season.

Good race but was almost impossible for Charles.

Leclerc has a hard time with the Ferrari, more is not possible with this car at the moment. In addition, he had engine problems, which makes it even more difficult.

The accident between Hamilton and Max is for me a racing accident, even if it was a very hard manoeuvre by Hamilton, it is no longer like the last years that he can win the world championship alone and without problems. When he had Rosberg as an opponent, he always made mistakes when he was under pressure.

Same as his mistake in Baku. He can't perform under pressure. He can only win if he got the fastest car and no competition. You hear it also on his boardradio messages this season. He is crying the whole time.

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[Cnut237]

Verstappen gave more room then Leclerc did in that corner. Nice to see how the Hamilton fanboys just can't handle this.

That's a strange thing to say. I thinking you're veering away from the facts somewhat, and letting emotion come into it. You've also taken a screengrab after Hamilton started to brake, presumably to make it look like he was a long way behind... which my previous image - or indeed the footage - shows wasn't the case. Please try to remain impartial.

Verstappen clearly didn't give any room - he cut straight into Hamilton. There was plenty of room to the outside, it's just that Verstappen, with his usual overly aggressive style, refused to give an inch and insisted on taking the racing line, and instigating a collision. Leclerc by contrast was a lot more mature. Or you could view the footage I posted from an earlier corner, where Verstappen cut inside Hamilton from behind, and Hamilton moved over to give him space.

I do like Verstappen, I think he's a great driver. And it's fine for drivers to be aggressive - they need to be, if they're going to win. A lack of aggression is why Bottas, for example, is not quite at the same standard as the very best drivers. But drivers need to have some tactical awareness. Verstappen only has one setting: attack attack attack.

[Luzin]

I can't wait either, the summer break in MotoGP is unfortunately very long. But this time will also pass quickly.
Marquez is not my favourite in the two MotoGP races in Austria, for me the Ducatis and KTMs are the favourites in Austria and of course Fabio, even if it's not a good track for Yamaha with a lot of full throttle.

The increase in results is quite good actually for Marquez. I was so amazed to see him in the last series.
Imagine he passed 13 riders from the start. I think this is a warning to other racers.
Although KTM, Yamaha and Ducati look more solid, I think Honda is on the way to winning.

[Koal-84]

I can't wait either, the summer break in MotoGP is unfortunately very long. But this time will also pass quickly.
Marquez is not my favourite in the two MotoGP races in Austria, for me the Ducatis and KTMs are the favourites in Austria and of course Fabio, even if it's not a good track for Yamaha with a lot of full throttle.

The increase in results is quite good actually for Marquez. I was so amazed to see him in the last series.
Imagine he passed 13 riders from the start. I think this is a warning to other racers.
Although KTM, Yamaha and Ducati look more solid, I think Honda is on the way to winning.

Marquez has again delivered good results although he is not yet fully fit that deserves respect, whether he will ever dominate again? I think rather not, also the young drivers push more and more and I think are a greater competition than 2-3 years ago for marc.

For all Pedrosa fans, Dani will ride in Spielberg with a wildcard. I'm curious whether he can still keep up, he will drive a slightly modified RC16 to test new things.

https://www.servustv.com/sport/a/sensation-dani-pedrosa-feiert-motogp-comeback/134951/

[tokeweed]

Verstappen gave more room then Leclerc did in that corner. Nice to see how the Hamilton fanboys just can't handle this.

That's a strange thing to say. I thinking you're veering away from the facts somewhat, and letting emotion come into it. You've also taken a screengrab after Hamilton started to brake, presumably to make it look like he was a long way behind... which my previous image - or indeed the footage - shows wasn't the case. Please try to remain impartial.

Verstappen clearly didn't give any room - he cut straight into Hamilton. There was plenty of room to the outside, it's just that Verstappen, with his usual overly aggressive style, refused to give an inch and insisted on taking the racing line, and instigating a collision. Leclerc by contrast was a lot more mature. Or you could view the footage I posted from an earlier corner, where Verstappen cut inside Hamilton from behind, and Hamilton moved over to give him space.

I do like Verstappen, I think he's a great driver. And it's fine for drivers to be aggressive - they need to be, if they're going to win. A lack of aggression is why Bottas, for example, is not quite at the same standard as the very best drivers. But drivers need to have some tactical awareness. Verstappen only has one setting: attack attack attack.

Room for what?   Verstappen was ahead and he had the line.  Hamilton being a professional driver and it being the fastest part of the track should’ve erred on the side of caution and hit the brake or give Verstappen space.  

Hamilton was being an asshole driver.  It was more in his hands than Verstappen.

[dre1982]

Verstappen gave more room then Leclerc did in that corner. Nice to see how the Hamilton fanboys just can't handle this.

That's a strange thing to say. I thinking you're veering away from the facts somewhat, and letting emotion come into it. You've also taken a screengrab after Hamilton started to brake, presumably to make it look like he was a long way behind... which my previous image - or indeed the footage - shows wasn't the case. Please try to remain impartial.

Verstappen clearly didn't give any room - he cut straight into Hamilton. There was plenty of room to the outside, it's just that Verstappen, with his usual overly aggressive style, refused to give an inch and insisted on taking the racing line, and instigating a collision. Leclerc by contrast was a lot more mature. Or you could view the footage I posted from an earlier corner, where Verstappen cut inside Hamilton from behind, and Hamilton moved over to give him space.

I do like Verstappen, I think he's a great driver. And it's fine for drivers to be aggressive - they need to be, if they're going to win. A lack of aggression is why Bottas, for example, is not quite at the same standard as the very best drivers. But drivers need to have some tactical awareness. Verstappen only has one setting: attack attack attack.

Room for what?   Verstappen was ahead and he had the line.  Hamilton being a professional driver and it being the fastest part of the track should’ve erred on the side of caution and hit the brake or give Verstappen space.  

Hamilton was being an asshole driver.  It was more in his hands than Verstappen.

We better quite arguing with him. He kept telling Leclerc give more room then Verstappen    

All Hamiltons fans are as blind as Hamilton. It will be a hard season for them. Hamilton will surely make some bigger mistakes this season.

It's a marathon and not a sprint 

[lixer]

I understand why Hamilton got the penalty. Rule books can't cover every eventuality and circumstance; it's always a best-fit approach. But it was Max who was the reckless idiot who caused the crash. You should never try to force someone off the track like that, particularly at a high speed corner. Hopefully Max will learn a lesson and start driving more sensibly... but of course he never learns.

Yeah Hamilton got a 10 second penalty, which means even the FIA stewards already decided that Hamilton was wrong, so there is absolutely no reason why we are still talking about who is at fault here because it is already decided, Hamilton was wrong and he got 10 second penalty, it wasn't a HUGE mistake, it was a small enough that it was just 10 seconds.

So, what I really think is the simple fact that Hamilton did a small mistake but when you are racing 200+ km an hour wheel to wheel then even a small mistake ends up with 51g worth of crash could be result. This is simply just a very bad situation for anyone involved, but Hamilton got the way. I do agree that it was definitely disrespectful and distasteful for him to be so much cheering when there was a guy in hospital because of him...

[Spack17]

The British GP was really an interesting one. I was expecting a wheel-to-wheel competition between Verstappen and Hamilton even from the start. But the incident was not that I expected. It scared me a great deal. I'm glad that Verstappen is okay now. He seems really angry at Hamilton and I saw that Verstappen unfollowed Hamilton on Instagram. Hamilton still follows him but he said that he didn't need to apologize to Max for the incident. It looks like the competition for the title will be even bigger now.

[sana54210]

Hamilton got a 10 second penalty, which means even the FIA stewards already decided that Hamilton was wrong, so there is absolutely no reason why we are still talking about who is at fault here because it is already decided, Hamilton was wrong and he got 10 second penalty, it wasn't a HUGE mistake, it was a small enough that it was just 10 seconds.

So, what I really think is the simple fact that Hamilton did a small mistake but when you are racing 200+ km an hour wheel to wheel then even a small mistake ends up with 51g worth of crash could be result. This is simply just a very bad situation for anyone involved, but Hamilton got the way. I do agree that it was definitely disrespectful and distasteful for him to be so much cheering when there was a guy in hospital because of him...

I do not know why people are still arguing if Hamilton was at wrong or not, dude literally got a 10 second penalty for being wrong. In order to say that Hamilton was at wrong and caused Max to crash you do not have to say he is a murdering maniac or something, you could simply say Hamilton was at wrong and that's it, nothing more, hell even the penalty is literally second least that could be given, so it was a wrong move but not too big of a wrong move.

I am a huge Max fan but I am trying to look at it from an objective point of view, however even with Hamilton being wrong, hamilton getting 10 second penalty, hamilton celebrating with a full lap of flag waving, hamilton saying proud of himself, hamilton literally saying max was wrong and doubling down, all of this combined, the moment you say "but he got a penalty he was wrong" you are labeled racist for saying it to a black driver, wtf? Like what does his race have to do with anything, he was a driver who got a penalty for being wrong in a move that sent Max to hospital that could have been worse, that is literally the facts we have, stewards decided Lewis was wrong and that's that, just because you "think" he was doing the right move doesn't make him right, I would say Stewards know more about F1 than anyone here... just common sense.

[coinlocket$]

Verstappen gave more room then Leclerc did in that corner. Nice to see how the Hamilton fanboys just can't handle this.

Are you calling me a Hamilton fanboy? I'm a Ferrari fanboy and I "hate" (sportingly talking) Mercedes.
The overtake Lewis did to the Ferrari was easier since Charles let him pass since he saw that Mercedes were over 1 sec faster for lap.

If he was closing the door there then Lewis could just simply pass him in another turn.

2014

Alonso knowing the coming crash just let Vettel go

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnbJQRpG5w

Verstappen did nothing to avoid the incident.

[Cnut237]

I'm glad that Verstappen is okay now.

I'm glad he's okay, too.

He seems really angry at Hamilton and I saw that Verstappen unfollowed Hamilton on Instagram.

Hot-headed and petulant behaviour from Verstappen? Surely not!
He's a great driver, but too aggressive to be safe. Probably because he is young. I'm sure Hamilton was reckless too in his early years in F1.

It looks like the competition for the title will be even bigger now.

I don't know, I think Verstappen will win it quite easily. But the second drivers of both teams could become important. If Bottas can get up near the front with Perez remaining further back, then that would give Mercedes a tactical advantage and the ability to run split strategies on pit stops, and effectively manage Verstappen's stops. We'll see, I suppose. And whilst Red Bull have the faster car at the moment, it isn't guaranteed to remain fastest for the rest of the season.

---

Verstappen did nothing to avoid the incident.

Yeah, that's the point I've been trying to make, too. Hamilton was almost completely alongside Verstappen, it's not like Verstappen didn't see him. So if someone is coming up the inside of you on a bend, what do you do? A) go wide and let them take the position, or B) think "hey! no you don't! that's MY racing line!" and then deliberately crash into them and put yourself in hospital? Max chose option B.

[CLS63]

I think that Verstappen made a really big mistake there. He shouldn't have tried to close the inside too much. It was very obvious that Hamilton was going to try something at Copse corner. Verstappen should have stayed outside. He could still have gotten his place back after that. Because he was faster than Hamilton actually. I'm happy that Verstappen doesn't have any health problems or injury now.

[Luzin]

Marquez has again delivered good results although he is not yet fully fit that deserves respect, whether he will ever dominate again? I think rather not, also the young drivers push more and more and I think are a greater competition than 2-3 years ago for marc.

For all Pedrosa fans, Dani will ride in Spielberg with a wildcard. I'm curious whether he can still keep up, he will drive a slightly modified RC16 to test new things.

https://www.servustv.com/sport/a/sensation-dani-pedrosa-feiert-motogp-comeback/134951/

It's true that every season is different, but Marquez is still competitive. I think at the moment they are working on adjusting the bike to Marquez. He is also still young, he is still able to race for another 14 years if he is the same as Rossi.

For Dani, actually I was surprised when he became a test rider, it's the same with Lorenzo too. They are still very good but it's a shame they didn't compete.

[Koal-84]

Marquez has again delivered good results although he is not yet fully fit that deserves respect, whether he will ever dominate again? I think rather not, also the young drivers push more and more and I think are a greater competition than 2-3 years ago for marc.

For all Pedrosa fans, Dani will ride in Spielberg with a wildcard. I'm curious whether he can still keep up, he will drive a slightly modified RC16 to test new things.

https://www.servustv.com/sport/a/sensation-dani-pedrosa-feiert-motogp-comeback/134951/

It's true that every season is different, but Marquez is still competitive. I think at the moment they are working on adjusting the bike to Marquez. He is also still young, he is still able to race for another 14 years if he is the same as Rossi.

For Dani, actually I was surprised when he became a test rider, it's the same with Lorenzo too. They are still very good but it's a shame they didn't compete.

Yes this season as well as last season is different, only Honda should not make the same mistake again to adapt a bike to only one rider, the result of this mistake we saw last season as we see this season. Relying only on one rider... Also Marc can crash again and hurt, Honda should also consider this and improve the bike in general and not rely only 150% on one rider.

Pedrosa would have certainly already got the one or other time the chance, but there simply he did not want to drive more than only test rider, I hope for him he has a good result with his wildcard. From KTM it was definitely the right decision to hire an experienced rider like Pedrosa.

[Koal-84]

Verstappen gave more room then Leclerc did in that corner. Nice to see how the Hamilton fanboys just can't handle this.

Are you calling me a Hamilton fanboy? I'm a Ferrari fanboy and I "hate" (sportingly talking) Mercedes.
The overtake Lewis did to the Ferrari was easier since Charles let him pass since he saw that Mercedes were over 1 sec faster for lap.

If he was closing the door there then Lewis could just simply pass him in another turn.

2014

Alonso knowing the coming crash just let Vettel go

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnbJQRpG5w

Verstappen did nothing to avoid the incident.

I see a 3D reconstruction of the crash from Verstappen vs. Hamilton on Youtube, with details and speculations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikWhv-1w5E

3D reconstruction of the crash between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton at the F1 race at Silverstone. Comparison with Qualifying lap and some details of the crash. Enjoy the crashalong!

Very successful reconstruction in my opinion, with some and extensive details. I am still of the opinion that it was a normal racing accident with a distribution of blame Hamilton : Verstappen 60:40 and the 10 second penalty has fit, perhaps a 10 second stop and go penalty would have been even better.

[SquallLeonhart]

It looks like the competition for the title will be even bigger now.

I don't know, I think Verstappen will win it quite easily. But the second drivers of both teams could become important. If Bottas can get up near the front with Perez remaining further back, then that would give Mercedes a tactical advantage and the ability to run split strategies on pit stops, and effectively manage Verstappen's stops. We'll see, I suppose. And whilst Red Bull have the faster car at the moment, it isn't guaranteed to remain fastest for the rest of the season.

Having a driver with the drivers cup while losing the constructors is not unheard of, it is a bit more rare I will give you that but it has happened before. Like for example on Hamiltons first ever championship, Ferrari was the constructor champion, so it has happened even though it is quite rare for it to happen.

I feel like if it's gonna happen at any season it could be this one, Bottas is the classic just go out there, race a bit, pit, race some more and finish boring guy who always gets results unless team screws him up, and Hamilton is fighting for the title, Max may end up winning or not but even if he wins Perez is nowhere to be found, so I could easily say that there is a good chance Mercedes could still end up winning while Max becomes champion, it is quite possible. We just need to see this next race and then it is a big break, I feel like Hungary will be another Hamilton because Max may not be ready just yet, but after the break I am sure he will be ready again.

[AakZaki]

Yes this season as well as last season is different, only Honda should not make the same mistake again to adapt a bike to only one rider, the result of this mistake we saw last season as we see this season. Relying only on one rider... Also Marc can crash again and hurt, Honda should also consider this and improve the bike in general and not rely only 150% on one rider.

~snip~

Honda and Yamaha problems are the same at this time. They have good drivers but their bikes don't seem the same. They only dominate with 1 racer. Very different from the ducati team if you look at the temporary standings. The ducati drivers have consecutive points and rankings and it looks like they have almost the same bike. But I understand that every racer has a different set of motorbikes, because for one team they have their own motorbike technician.

[Juggy777]

It looks like the competition for the title will be even bigger now.

I don't know, I think Verstappen will win it quite easily. But the second drivers of both teams could become important. If Bottas can get up near the front with Perez remaining further back, then that would give Mercedes a tactical advantage and the ability to run split strategies on pit stops, and effectively manage Verstappen's stops. We'll see, I suppose. And whilst Red Bull have the faster car at the moment, it isn't guaranteed to remain fastest for the rest of the season.

Having a driver with the drivers cup while losing the constructors is not unheard of, it is a bit more rare I will give you that but it has happened before. Like for example on Hamiltons first ever championship, Ferrari was the constructor champion, so it has happened even though it is quite rare for it to happen.

I feel like if it's gonna happen at any season it could be this one, Bottas is the classic just go out there, race a bit, pit, race some more and finish boring guy who always gets results unless team screws him up, and Hamilton is fighting for the title, Max may end up winning or not but even if he wins Perez is nowhere to be found, so I could easily say that there is a good chance Mercedes could still end up winning while Max becomes champion, it is quite possible. We just need to see this next race and then it is a big break, I feel like Hungary will be another Hamilton because Max may not be ready just yet, but after the break I am sure he will be ready again.

I don’t know about you’ll but reading what you’ll just said made me visualise like I was reading a Hollywood movie script, and to be honest I loved every part of it as we don’t get to see these kind of results often in a season. However as you’ll have rightly said the chances of this happening is rare, but I’m yet praying it does happen because I’m bored to see the same results season after season.

[Koal-84]

Yes this season as well as last season is different, only Honda should not make the same mistake again to adapt a bike to only one rider, the result of this mistake we saw last season as we see this season. Relying only on one rider... Also Marc can crash again and hurt, Honda should also consider this and improve the bike in general and not rely only 150% on one rider.

~snip~

Honda and Yamaha problems are the same at this time. They have good drivers but their bikes don't seem the same. They only dominate with 1 racer. Very different from the ducati team if you look at the temporary standings. The ducati drivers have consecutive points and rankings and it looks like they have almost the same bike. But I understand that every racer has a different set of motorbikes, because for one team they have their own motorbike technician.

Exactly, Honda has the problem that the bike is very difficult to ride, which is why the Handa rider have many crashes. Yamaha has a completely different problem, sometimes the riders (except Fabio) can't handle the tires or they always have to brake very late to overtake due the low engine power. Fabio has the advantage because he usually drives away from the front, to drive from the back to the front is very difficult with the Yamaha and the little top speed, but the handling of the Yamaha is very good. But the same problem has Suzuki at the moment.

This weekend is a boring weekend no motorsport event, neither Formula1 nor MotoGP.

[tokeweed]

Just heard this from a friend..  Alfa Romeo is after Bottas and Toto Wolff has also supposedly said in one interview that he had a hard talk wlth Bottas.  Well then, it looks like Russell is going to Mercedes after all.    I’m surprised that I’m the only one surprised.  Lol.  I really thought Bottas staying at Merc was a lock.