Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[Koal-84]

Qatar Moto GP results.
-snip-

Source: https://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics/2021/QAT/MotoGP/RAC/Classification

It seems that Rossi must understand that he is old. His great will is not supported by his physique. He was only able to finish in 12th position. It was a good start for Vinales, he won in Qatar. Vinales without a rival after Lap 15 until the finish. An exciting duel was in 2nd and 3rd position between Zarco and Mir, unfortunately at the last corner of Mir Widen and  Bagnaia overtake her took the 3rd position

I don't know what was going on with Rossi either, but Morbidelli also drive behind. Perhaps Petronas had a problem with the vote or went in the wrong direction? Wait for this weekend to see if you can find a more competitive match at Petronas, I wouldn't write off Rossi yet. KTM was also very disappointing for me.

As I heard from the news, Rossi blames the Petronas Team in choosing the tires especially the rear one that makes him hard to compete after few laps.
He and team should learn from the first race as the next race will be on the same circuit, otherwise we can expect that he and team wont get better result.
I also think that he is too old already to be competitive, so I think he need to consider to retire.
He has big name already with many achievements in his carrier, I do not think he should force himself to get another World Champion Title.

Yes he and Morbidelli have problems with the rear tires and he hope Petronas Yamaha can find the problems why. he also said is good to see a Yamaha wining so it's a problem with the settings not the bike.

https://www.servustv.com/sport/a/mehr-erwartet-warum-valentino-rossi-in-katar-auf-platz-zwoelf-abrutschte/22566/

[1715044955]

1715044955

[swogerino]

So what do you think? are you agree?

You're right, age has forbidden him to return to being the best. His will does not keep up with age. I think for retirement, maybe this year is the right year. Maybe at this time Dorna still considers Rossi as an attraction, so Dorna has changed the regulations regarding the age of the riders. Just look at this year he is still special with a new motorbike engine, different from Morbidelli. If you know, last year's Morbidelli performed better than Rossi. For a new star, maybe if there is a new racer like Marquez who is able to appear dominant this season, that name will become the new favorite racer.

Morbidelli will fight for the title if given a competitive bike.He has experience now from last year and he can be a threat to Marquez who will start in a handicap of minus two races as a minimum this year.

Rossi era is long gonne now and I don't think he can give any more adrenaline in general to the MotoGp races.

[aesma]

About Rossi I'm not a MotoGP fan but I will translate it to F1. If I was an F1 pilot and a team wanted me to continue, I would continue. You're driving the most exciting things on the planet, there is nothing that compares. We have seen these last few years several pilots close to 40 years old or even more staying on, as long as they're wanted.

Also usually with that job comes a nice salary and lots of sponsorships, so $$$.

I also understand someone like Rosberg who quit after becoming champion, or others who feel they got enough danger, but that's not the majority. Most F1 pilots are quite unhappy to see their career ending...

[AakZaki]

I don't know what was going on with Rossi either, but Morbidelli also drive behind. ~snip~

Yes, you probably already know, Morbidelli doesn't use the new YZR-M1 engine. They chose 3 other racers to use the new machine. Although Morbidelli performed well last year, he finished second at the end of the standings. In Qatar, there are clear differences between the four riders. Just look at the champions Vinales, Quartararo in fifth, and Rossi in twelfth. For Morbidelli failed to finish, I saw in FP 3 he was the fastest. However, it seems that it cannot be used as a reference during the race.

[Koal-84]

So what do you think? are you agree?

You're right, age has forbidden him to return to being the best. His will does not keep up with age. I think for retirement, maybe this year is the right year. Maybe at this time Dorna still considers Rossi as an attraction, so Dorna has changed the regulations regarding the age of the riders. Just look at this year he is still special with a new motorbike engine, different from Morbidelli. If you know, last year's Morbidelli performed better than Rossi. For a new star, maybe if there is a new racer like Marquez who is able to appear dominant this season, that name will become the new favorite racer.

Morbidelli will fight for the title if given a competitive bike.He has experience now from last year and he can be a threat to Marquez who will start in a handicap of minus two races as a minimum this year.

Rossi era is long gonne now and I don't think he can give any more adrenaline in general to the MotoGp races.

Unfortunately, Yamaha is not competitive on all tracks and mostly has tire problems, the factoury team has it better this time. Yamaha usually start the season well in contrast to Suzuki who usually get stronger over the season.

I don't know what was going on with Rossi either, but Morbidelli also drive behind. ~snip~

Yes, you probably already know, Morbidelli doesn't use the new YZR-M1 engine. They chose 3 other racers to use the new machine. Although Morbidelli performed well last year, he finished second at the end of the standings. In Qatar, there are clear differences between the four riders. Just look at the champions Vinales, Quartararo in fifth, and Rossi in twelfth. For Morbidelli failed to finish, I saw in FP 3 he was the fastest. However, it seems that it cannot be used as a reference during the race.

You can't say that across the board, last year Morbidelli was the best Yamaha rider with the older spec.

[Cnut237]

So I’ve been hearing that the drivers were briefed before the race and were told that going out of the track at turn 4 was allowed.  Guess who took advantage of it to cut his time per lap..?  Hamilton.  He went off track 29 times at turn 4.  He found his edge and won.  Such as brilliant driver.

Yes. During the race, Red Bull complained that Hamilton was going outside track limits at turn 4, and was gaining an advantage... so the officials said he had to stop doing it.
And then, at the end, as we all know... Verstappen overtook Hamilton... by running outside track limits at turn 4... and so, because officials had already said Hamilton couldn't do it, they had to say Verstappen couldn't do it either and had to hand the place back.
Kind of weird that if Red Bull hadn't made the initial complaint, they'd have had a decent chance of winning the race... they could have claimed that Hamilton had been running wide there with no action taken, so Max could do the same.

Not really because the rule was that you could run wide if you didn't gain an advantage. Passing someone by going wide is definitely getting an advantage. The only thing that could happen would be to penalize Hamilton, because if he ran wide at every turn it must be because he got an advantage, however in practice the marshalls should have done what they finally threatened to do, show him a flag (yellow and black ?) then penalize hime next time he did it, they couldn't retroactively penalise him for all the laps before.

Certainly they couldn't penalise him retroactively, no.
But on the other point, I don't know. Red Bull claimed that Hamilton was gaining 0.2 seconds a lap there. If - hypothetically - they hadn't mentioned this until the Max overtake, when the officials told him to give the place back, then they could have presented their evidence and said Hamilton had been gaining an advantage there every lap and no action had been taken, therefore no action should be taken against Max. Appreciate though that this is quite an unlikely scenario... in reality they were always going to mention it as soon as they became aware of it.

[aesma]

If Verstappen has just gone wide every turn like Hamilton to get better lap times, yes. But going wide to pass is still something else fundamentally. There are plenty of corners where there is no advantage in going out and thus no enforcement of track limits, where you could use them to overtake by doing some maneuvers (passing by not braking, forcing the other care to brake more, then braking less because you use the parking outside the circuit).

[Koal-84]

If Verstappen has just gone wide every turn like Hamilton to get better lap times, yes. But going wide to pass is still something else fundamentally. There are plenty of corners where there is no advantage in going out and thus no enforcement of track limits, where you could use them to overtake by doing some maneuvers (passing by not braking, forcing the other care to brake more, then braking less because you use the parking outside the circuit).

Imola is again an old school track that I'm looking forward to, as last year Verstappen was closer to the Mercedes, but think Verstappen had one defect? But on the Imola track with the sandbanks, every mistake is quickly punished. Due to the pandemic, is it already fixed that they can drive in Imola?

[coinlocket$]

Imola is again an old school track that I'm looking forward to, as last year Verstappen was closer to the Mercedes, but think Verstappen had one defect? But on the Imola track with the sandbanks, every mistake is quickly punished. Due to the pandemic, is it already fixed that they can drive in Imola?

I hate Imola so much but you are absolutely right.
With the car we have, ehm they have this year they have less drag in the rear of the car so high-speed turns are definitely a problem since they can lose their car easier at least in the 1st half of the season till they are figuring out how to gain the drag lost.

The FIA's target was to have -15% ish in drag but teams with progress from the past year are around 5-10% less than 2020.

Imagine doing SPA or Mugello now no drag on the high speed turns

[masulum]

About Rossi I'm not a MotoGP fan but I will translate it to F1. If I was an F1 pilot and a team wanted me to continue, I would continue. You're driving the most exciting things on the planet, there is nothing that compares. We have seen these last few years several pilots close to 40 years old or even more staying on, as long as they're wanted.

Also usually with that job comes a nice salary and lots of sponsorships, so $$$.

I also understand someone like Rosberg who quit after becoming champion, or others who feel they got enough danger, but that's not the majority. Most F1 pilots are quite unhappy to see their career ending...

You are right, if the sponsor wants Rossi, then the team will extend his contract, because the money hangs from sponsorship for Rossi. However, as a racer who is at a less productive age, it is time for him to sacrifice his sponsorship wishes and choose a career to become a mentor / coach instead of being a racer for next season. It would be better than him getting worse.

[Koal-84]

About Rossi I'm not a MotoGP fan but I will translate it to F1. If I was an F1 pilot and a team wanted me to continue, I would continue. You're driving the most exciting things on the planet, there is nothing that compares. We have seen these last few years several pilots close to 40 years old or even more staying on, as long as they're wanted.

Also usually with that job comes a nice salary and lots of sponsorships, so $$$.

I also understand someone like Rosberg who quit after becoming champion, or others who feel they got enough danger, but that's not the majority. Most F1 pilots are quite unhappy to see their career ending...

You are right, if the sponsor wants Rossi, then the team will extend his contract, because the money hangs from sponsorship for Rossi. However, as a racer who is at a less productive age, it is time for him to sacrifice his sponsorship wishes and choose a career to become a mentor / coach instead of being a racer for next season. It would be better than him getting worse.

Rossi will remain the Dorna as a cashmaker even after his driver career as presumably team boss. Like last year he will only extend the contract if he is competitive, so just wait for the next races otherwise he will make place for a young driver like last year. For Petronas with merchandising, Rossi is of course an asset.

[Koal-84]

Fantastic qualifying from Martin, in the second race as a rookie on pole position. Incredible!!

Otherwise, similar to last week Ducati, very fast like the factory yamaha, even with strong winds. Rossi was rather very disappointing.

[fullhdpixel]

If Verstappen has just gone wide every turn like Hamilton to get better lap times, yes. But going wide to pass is still something else fundamentally. There are plenty of corners where there is no advantage in going out and thus no enforcement of track limits, where you could use them to overtake by doing some maneuvers (passing by not braking, forcing the other care to brake more, then braking less because you use the parking outside the circuit).

Imola is again an old school track that I'm looking forward to, as last year Verstappen was closer to the Mercedes, but think Verstappen had one defect? But on the Imola track with the sandbanks, every mistake is quickly punished. Due to the pandemic, is it already fixed that they can drive in Imola?

Verstappen and Red Bull finally getting there, it is a bit about verstappen finally having a decent car, but it's a bit about Verstappen being himself as well, Perez finished 5th but let's be honest if he was driving a worse car after a start like that he could have finished with about 10+ th place with zero points for this race as well, that epic come back (by the way it's on youtube at formula 1's channel if anyone wants to check, it's a wonderful video) was the only reason he finished 5th.

I think this is going to be weird, Red Bull increases the whole deal of ever place they ever go to, look at how much they improved football for example, only team fighting against Bayern is Leipzig. They are fighting to overthrow Mercedes as well and I think they have a chance to actually do that as well. It is going to be really fun to see this season play out, this Honda deal really seems to be making big time difference.

[aesma]

And Mercedes sells millions of expensive cars to pay for F1.

Meanwhile Red Bull sells cans of let's say questionable beverage.

[coinlocket$]

And Mercedes sells millions of expensive cars to pay for F1.

Meanwhile Red Bull sells cans of let's say questionable beverage.

This is not true at all, at least entirely.
Red Bull has a lot of things in their hands besides the beverage.

They get money from many spots, they have teams in football/soccer whatever you wanna call it, moto, extreme sports, other races cars, and many more.

Before COvid in 2019 they got 6.1 billions $ in sales, I don't think 150m spent in a F1 where they will earn too from the advertising is a big deal.

[Luzin]

Second MotoGP in Doha is still dominated by Ducati and Yamaha. Rossi started from number 21, Morbidelli in position 10. While in front , positions 1,2 and 3 are Martin, Zarco and Vinales. Remember Martin was a debut this season, but he was able to start in first position. Here's the starting grid for the second race at doha.

1      Jorge Martin                   Pramac Ducati
2   Johann Zarco           Pramac Ducati
3   Maverick Viñales           Monster Yamaha
4   Jack Miller                   Ducati Team
5   Fabio Quartararo           Monster Yamaha
6   Francesco Bagnaia   Ducati Team
7   Aleix Espargaro           Aprilia Gresini
8   Alex Rins                   Suzuki Ecstar
9   Joan Mir                   Suzuki Ecstar
10   Franco Morbidelli           Petronas Yamaha
11   Stefan Bradl                   Repsol Honda
12   Miguel Oliveira           Red Bull KTM
13   Luca Marini                   Sky VR46 Avintia Ducati
14   Alex Marquez           LCR Honda
15   Pol Espargaro           Repsol Honda
16   Takaaki Nakagami   LCR Honda
17   Danilo Petrucci           KTM Tech3
18   Brad Binder                   Red Bull KTM
19   Enea Bastianini           Avintia Ducati
20   Iker Lecuona                   KTM Tech3
21   Valentino Rossi           Petronas Yamaha
22   Lorenzo Savadori           Aprilia Gresini1

Who is the winner of this second series? Maybe from Ducati. IMO

Source: https://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics

[Koal-84]

And Mercedes sells millions of expensive cars to pay for F1.

Meanwhile Red Bull sells cans of let's say questionable beverage.

This is not true at all, at least entirely.
Red Bull has a lot of things in their hands besides the beverage.

They get money from many spots, they have teams in football/soccer whatever you wanna call it, moto, extreme sports, other races cars, and many more.

Before COvid in 2019 they got 6.1 billions $ in sales, I don't think 150m spent in a F1 where they will earn too from the advertising is a big deal.

For RedBull, this is mainly to do with marketing and to make the RedBull brand known and market it all over the world, Mateschitz also enjoys it, primarily the source of income and what is geared towards the energy drink and the other things are the drink subordinate to marketing purposes.

[jakdanyel]

And Mercedes sells millions of expensive cars to pay for F1.

Meanwhile Red Bull sells cans of let's say questionable beverage.

This is not true at all, at least entirely.
Red Bull has a lot of things in their hands besides the beverage.

They get money from many spots, they have teams in football/soccer whatever you wanna call it, moto, extreme sports, other races cars, and many more.

Before COvid in 2019 they got 6.1 billions $ in sales, I don't think 150m spent in a F1 where they will earn too from the advertising is a big deal.

I agree. Many people just know Red Bull by their beverages. But the situation is completely different. As you said, for example there are football teams like Leipzig, Salzburg and NY Red Bulls which are sponsored by Red Bull. And it is not limited to football teams only. So, it could be a wrong point of view to say that Red Bull is just known by their beverages.

[swogerino]

Fantastic qualifying from Martin, in the second race as a rookie on pole position. Incredible!!

Otherwise, similar to last week Ducati, very fast like the factory yamaha, even with strong winds. Rossi was rather very disappointing.

It is just a single lap.Of course it is great to see new names in Pole Position which gives a moral boost to these riders.Tonight at 19 Pm European time is the race and I think it will be an interesting race.A lot of contenders like Morbidelli are starting from behind and as always in Moto Gp races it is critical to come out without crashing from the first turn.The true face of any rider is the race,the race shows the true skills of everyone and this year Moto Gp without Marquez in these first two races sure helps to make it interesting.

[panjul07]

Second MotoGP in Doha is still dominated by Ducati and Yamaha. Rossi started from number 21, Morbidelli in position 10. While in front , positions 1,2 and 3 are Martin, Zarco and Vinales. Remember Martin was a debut this season, but he was able to start in first position. Here's the starting grid for the second race at doha.

Who is the winner of this second series? Maybe from Ducati. IMO

Source: https://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics

Looking at the starting grid, it will be the duel between Ducati vs. Yamaha.
Vinales can be the one who have biggest motivation to win since he won the 1st race week ago.
It is hard to predict obviously but I'm trying to predict who will be on the Podium by the end of the Race as follow:

1. Vinales
2. Jack Miller
3. Zarco