Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[tokeweed]

It’s a matter of style and how good some drivers are vs others.  Vettel is mostly good at qualifying imo..  So he’ll always need the faster car to be at the front of the grid to be consistent.  And this is what I think, if Vettel and Hamilton are at Merc together, I think Vettel will beat Hamilton 7 - 3 out of 10 qualifying...  I think despite Leclerc beating Vettel at Ferrari last year.

[aesma]

Vettel was good at qualifying, not sure it's still the case. To manage the perfect lap, you need supreme confidence in the car and in yourself. Looking at some of Hamilton's laps, and Vettel's when at RedBull you can see how close they are to the limit, it's beautiful. If you put Vettel in a Mercedes now, against Lewis, it would be very difficult for him psychologically. Also, even if he has pole, there would be no team order, and we know Hamilton is quite good at taking back first place from 2nd...

[coinlocket$]

It’s a matter of style and how good some drivers are vs others.  Vettel is mostly good at qualifying imo..  So he’ll always need the faster car to be at the front of the grid to be consistent.  And this is what I think, if Vettel and Hamilton are at Merc together, I think Vettel will beat Hamilton 7 - 3 out of 10 qualifying...  I think despite Leclerc beating Vettel at Ferrari last year.

Vettel has been demolished by LeClerc in qualifications.



Source: https://www.racefans.net/2020/12/16/team-mate-battles-2020-the-final-score-vettel-vs-leclerc/

This for 2020.


In 2019 was 9 Vettel 12 Leclerc, Also Leclerc did more pole positions and winning at his 1st year with Ferrari.

[ziyaaa]

It’s a matter of style and how good some drivers are vs others.  Vettel is mostly good at qualifying imo..  So he’ll always need the faster car to be at the front of the grid to be consistent.  And this is what I think, if Vettel and Hamilton are at Merc together, I think Vettel will beat Hamilton 7 - 3 out of 10 qualifying...  I think despite Leclerc beating Vettel at Ferrari last year.

I don't have the same idea. Vettel is not as good as his old times. I know that Ferrari was really terrible but still he could have beaten Leclerc. If Vettel and Hamilton both were at Mercedes, Vettel could have a better performance than Bottas for sure but I think Hamilton would still destroy him in qualifying and races both. Hamilton is really spectacular despite his age.

[tokeweed]

It’s a matter of style and how good some drivers are vs others.  Vettel is mostly good at qualifying imo..  So he’ll always need the faster car to be at the front of the grid to be consistent.  And this is what I think, if Vettel and Hamilton are at Merc together, I think Vettel will beat Hamilton 7 - 3 out of 10 qualifying...  I think despite Leclerc beating Vettel at Ferrari last year.

Vettel has been demolished by LeClerc in qualifications.



Source: https://www.racefans.net/2020/12/16/team-mate-battles-2020-the-final-score-vettel-vs-leclerc/

This for 2020.


In 2019 was 9 Vettel 12 Leclerc, Also Leclerc did more pole positions and winning at his 1st year with Ferrari.

As said driving style coupled with the car matters a lot.  Vettel’s style mostly doesn’t have a lot of pace, so he needs a grippier car with more downforce than a faster car to come out ahead cos he has a knack to be slightly faster at turns during qualifying.  That car during his championship days at RBR wasn’t really the fastest per se but it had a lot more downforce the the rest.

Merc as the best of both worlds, good aero and the best PU.

[Cafex]

Vettel was good at qualifying, not sure it's still the case. To manage the perfect lap, you need supreme confidence in the car and in yourself. Looking at some of Hamilton's laps, and Vettel's when at RedBull you can see how close they are to the limit, it's beautiful. If you put Vettel in a Mercedes now, against Lewis, it would be very difficult for him psychologically. Also, even if he has pole, there would be no team order, and we know Hamilton is quite good at taking back first place from 2nd...

It wouldn't be a sensible move if they put two big F1 pilots in the same team I think. There could be so much conflicts between them. But let's say that they did it. Vettel could really make difficulties for Hamilton especially in qualifying. When it comes to the race, I think Hamilton would be the winner. 

[coinlocket$]

Alonso will skip the F1 presentation of this car, Alpine aka old Renault.
He is still healing from the incident he got last month. He should recover for the start of the season and probably for tests too.

Tests are in 2 weeks.

https://www.tuttosport.com/news/formula-1/2021/02/27-79516710/f1_alonso_ancora_convalescente_non_ci_sara_alla_presentazione_di_alpine

[aesma]

He might still be sore, maybe have a scar too, then you have to smile and maybe he can't do that either ! Hope he's well soon. I really would like Alpine to have some success, at the moment in France it's rather looking like the brand might disappear again.

[coinlocket$]

As said driving style coupled with the car matters a lot.  Vettel’s style mostly doesn’t have a lot of pace, so he needs a grippier car with more downforce than a faster car to come out ahead cos he has a knack to be slightly faster at turns during qualifying.  That car during his championship days at RBR wasn’t really the fastest per se but it had a lot more downforce the the rest.

Merc as the best of both worlds, good aero and the best PU.

Well, with RBR he was fighting with a mediocre driver like Webber.
We will see in 1 month if he can beat Stroll or not.

If he can't beat him he will lose a lot of fans.

[tokeweed]

^  Yeah I guess we’ll see.  But I’d argue Vettel’s ‘deterioration’ has prolly more to do with low motivation and something psychological than lack of skill.  If you guys remember he did some brilliant stuff when he was at Torro Rosso and was one of the most talented young drivers around at the time.

I think him being at a smaller team for a couple of years will do him good.  There will be less pressure for results and prolly get back his love for racing.

[AakZaki]

A explain from Yamaha why they wasn't given Morbidelli a factory bike for the session 2021 and he must drive with the bike from 2019, at the last season the older bike are the best Yamaha bike

https://us.motorsport.com/motogp/news/yamaha-morbidelli-factory-bike-petronas/5418117

~snip~

The reason is understandable. Covid is the team's main problem. I understand how much money is being spent developing Yamaha motorbikes and I think this happens to all teams. The choice of old motorbikes in my opinion still makes sense because last year they good. If this year Franco Morbidelli is able to do well, it will make him special to be on last year's bike. Maybe will occur Morbidelli next season could have been better than Rossi. :grin:

[Cnut237]

At Ferrari he failed miserably for six consecutive years and in a couple of them Ferrari was not that behind and at some tracks even equal to Mercedes.

Exactly. Whilst Mercedes have in general been better, there was one season when Ferrari definitely had the better car in the second half of the season, and a better driver would likely have won them the championship.

I’d argue Vettel’s ‘deterioration’ has prolly more to do with low motivation and something psychological than lack of skill.  If you guys remember he did some brilliant stuff when he was at Torro Rosso and was one of the most talented young drivers around at the time.

I'd agree with the motivation thing for 2020 certainly, it's difficult for anyone to be motivated when they know their contract isn't being renewed. But I can't see it being a valid point for prior seasons. He did look good some years back at Toro Rosso, but there is a gulf of difference between being a talented young driver (latest example being George Russell), and being truly world-class.

[LTU_btc]

I'd agree with the motivation thing for 2020 certainly, it's difficult for anyone to be motivated when they know their contract isn't being renewed. But I can't see it being a valid point for prior seasons. He did look good some years back at Toro Rosso, but there is a gulf of difference between being a talented young driver (latest example being George Russell), and being truly world-class.

I think it's not worth to pay much attention what happened in 2020 season. As I said before, for Vettel this season was something like living with your ex. It was difficult to expect good results. But yeah, there is no excuses for previous seasons. But I think it's not right to put all blame on him. Ferrari as a team made lot of bad decisions and mistakes.

[coinlocket$]

^  Yeah I guess we’ll see.  But I’d argue Vettel’s ‘deterioration’ has prolly more to do with low motivation and something psychological than lack of skill.  If you guys remember he did some brilliant stuff when he was at Torro Rosso and was one of the most talented young drivers around at the time.

I think him being at a smaller team for a couple of years will do him good.  There will be less pressure for results and prolly get back his love for racing.

True but if you can't keep the pressure you are can't be a top driver.
He made so many mistakes these 2 years it was embarrassing.

He maybe will find a feeling of a new peace in the new team with less pressure but if he can't beat Stroll I can see him ending his carrier in 2022.

[Juggy777]

^  Yeah I guess we’ll see.  But I’d argue Vettel’s ‘deterioration’ has prolly more to do with low motivation and something psychological than lack of skill.  If you guys remember he did some brilliant stuff when he was at Torro Rosso and was one of the most talented young drivers around at the time.

I think him being at a smaller team for a couple of years will do him good.  There will be less pressure for results and prolly get back his love for racing.

True but if you can't keep the pressure you are can't be a top driver.
He made so many mistakes these 2 years it was embarrassing.

He maybe will find a feeling of a new peace in the new team with less pressure but if he can't beat Stroll I can see him ending his carrier in 2022.

@tokeweed while I do understand what kind of pressure you’re talking about, but don’t you think that he would have been provided all the help and guidance to deal with it, and hence I don’t believe that it was a psychological issue. @coinlocket$ I’m really keen to see him retire on a high note, though I have been critical of his errors, but I yet feel that he can salvage his reputation before he retires.

[coinlocket$]

Back in black, the season is started, 10 days for tests.



Source: https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1366698686265327616/photo/2

[dre1982]

Back in black, the season is started, 10 days for tests.



Source: https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1366698686265327616/photo/2

I like this more then just the silver as it was before. This years the red parts looks nice. But thats just the looks, it's the speed what is the most important.

[Cnut237]

There is another suggestion that just the design of the Ferrari car itself did not resemble Vettel himself, similar to how it was said that something similar was one of the reasons for Schumacher's failure in Mercedes at one time.

This could be a factor I suppose, although I'd say it's unlikely given the amount of time he spent at Ferrari that they never managed to get a car that suited their lead driver.
A lot depends on this coming season. We can talk endlessly about Vettel's time at Ferrari, but when we see how he performs at his new team, it should answer a lot of the open questions about just how good he really is.


@coinlocket$ - Nice images of the new Mercedes. Strange that they've only shown a front view and a side view... when it's probably the rear view that the other teams will get used to seeing during the season

[Cafex]

Back in black, the season is started, 10 days for tests.



Source: https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1366698686265327616/photo/2

I didn't fully like the new design on the back and I think the 2020 car was better in terms of it. But anyway, it still seems nice. I must admit that I like the black color very much and I'm happy to see it again. I'm getting more hyped about the new season day by day. We already know that Mercedes will dominate again but it will still be exciting to watch. 

[LTU_btc]

I more liked Mercedes silver livery than this black. But for me 2021 design looks better than 2020. Added red looks good, and green color of their sponsor looks more bright.
BTW, how do you like Aloine F1 design?:

For me it's probably best looking car, especially because most teams haven't made significant changes. Also, it looks very similar to Manor F1 car, one of worst teams in last decade . It will be a bit strange to not see that yellow-black Renault car on the grid.