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Author Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum  (Read 68171 times)
Chalkbot
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January 16, 2013, 01:04:11 AM
 #2301

Basically it was an advance fee fraud where he sent people letters saying they had won a foreign lottery, but they needed to pay an admin fee to have the money released. He deliberately targeted the elderly, believing them to be more vulnerable.

Thanks Charlie. Is there a place where this is documented? I'm interested in getting the facts myself, as the people of these forums are completely unreliable for this purpose.

Also, if Sonny actually owns the company, then my original question stands. Doesn't that put them and everything they do in the government spotlight? Seems like a silly way to run a scam, when the owner of the company makes no difference in the grand scheme if you're planning to take the money and run.
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January 16, 2013, 01:13:27 AM
 #2302

I guess there will be lots of refund requests in the following days once BFL customers read the new 'update'?

No there won't..... Most of them will still stick to BFL cause they believe (like really religious "batshitcrazy" people) that their holy savior ASIC will arrive soon. Even if there is another delay Smiley

Okay, what kind of delay are you expecting? Point to the part of their timeline where the failure will be.


NO PROTOTYPE

Full production run

I point to the part of "Delivery of tested working Units"

We all want to believe...

But as a large majority of all of us are in either IT dev s/w & h/w the methodology that they are following is in one word

"DOOMED"

If they pull this off I will take my hat off too them...or as i would say "Good Luck With That"

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January 16, 2013, 01:16:21 AM
 #2303

BFL says non-refundable since, well 1st of January though.
Look it up asshamser.

What are you saying? Are you saying they won't refund after January first?

We are saying you work for BFL ...lol

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January 16, 2013, 01:21:47 AM
 #2304

... and they made fools of themselves by showing an empty box (instead of prototype) at CES 2013 Wink Do not be childish....

What does that have to do with anything? CES is packed full of shit that doesn't work yet.

If everyone goes there with non working things, than its OK to do so? Most of the stuff at least works in some ways... Many company are proud to show even a not perfectly working prototype! How else do you attract new investors?



+1

If they had a working prototype producing 25% or rated expectation they would have sold %500 more product

This is by the way elementary to all sane people

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January 16, 2013, 01:22:45 AM
 #2305


You are full of shit Jason.

One person who is probably not full of shit is Vladmir.  He was, iirc, one of the earliest to have voiced some efforts in the ASIC direction.  I have not heard a peep from him on this for some time.

A while ago I theorized that perhaps he became aware of the scammy intent of certain of the ASIC related efforts and that is what made him bail.  One way or another, I would listen to what he might have to say about the various barriers to entry and that sort of thing.


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January 16, 2013, 01:34:11 AM
 #2306

Basically it was an advance fee fraud where he sent people letters saying they had won a foreign lottery, but they needed to pay an admin fee to have the money released. He deliberately targeted the elderly, believing them to be more vulnerable.

Thanks Charlie. Is there a place where this is documented? I'm interested in getting the facts myself, as the people of these forums are completely unreliable for this purpose.

There are a few threads on the forum about it, I'm afraid I don't have time to dig them out but I doubt you will have much trouble finding them. One has links to the actual court records etc.

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January 16, 2013, 01:34:59 AM
 #2307

They're refunding anyone who asks...
No, they don't.

Yes, they do.

They do not honor full BTC refunds.

You said they didn't refund them at all! Don't act like refunding the same USD value (and not BTC...I don't feel like beating a dead horse) is equivalent to not refunding at all. That's stupid and stupifying.

So sorry BFL rep..... that if u where holding BTC for product over a period of 3 months and low and behold after request for refund u send back USD value & u keep the BTC exchange price increase ....hmmmm

Is this not what this is all about..is there not a word for this

Maybe u r right about ASIC's & delivery's but that point is plain for all to see what it is



http://codinginmysleep.com/interview-with-sonny-vleisides/
See Sept. 23 Interview with Sonny Vleisides, in which it was revealed that all BTC payments are converted to USD on the spot through Bitpay and deposited into BFLs bank account. If this were not the case, people could use preorders as a way to hedge their BTC market positions. That would be silly.
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January 16, 2013, 01:40:45 AM
 #2308

Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?

Because he a) isn't running the show, and b) isn't the only person working at BFL.
People seem to consistently forget that in order to pull off a scam of this magnitude, they'd need to support of all participating members...managers, execs, designers, engineers, etc.

Believe it or not, most people are not sociopaths.
I guess you have never heard of a manager robbing their own company blind.

I have seen several cases of that in real life. Where a manager comes in with access to the safe and his GF. Then pulls cash from the sack and walks out quiet assuming no one is watching him. Then buying very expensive things and doctoring the books to reflect the change to the companies finances.

The only way they ever seem to be caught is by the owner(s) asking why they are so unprofitable. Managers are usually the scumiest bastards you will ever encounter in life. They didn't get to being a manager by accident. Most managers hire managers who think and act like themselves (IMO).

They don't hire honest people because honesty is not what they know. So when I see polls that say only 10% of managers are lowlifes....I have to laugh.


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January 16, 2013, 01:43:26 AM
 #2309

Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?

Because he a) isn't running the show, and b) isn't the only person working at BFL.
People seem to consistently forget that in order to pull off a scam of this magnitude, they'd need to support of all participating members...managers, execs, designers, engineers, etc.

Believe it or not, most people are not sociopaths.
I guess you have never heard of a manager robbing their own company blind.

I have seen several cases of that in real life. Where a manager comes in with access to the safe and his GF. Then pulls cash from the sack and walks out quiet assuming no one is watching him. Then buying very expensive things and doctoring the books to reflect the change to the companies finances.

The only way they ever seem to be caught is by the owner(s) asking why they are so unprofitable. Managers are usually the scumiest bastards you will ever encounter in life. They didn't get to being a manager by accident. Most managers hire managers who think and act like themselves (IMO).

They don't hire honest people because honesty is not what they know. So when I see polls that say only 10% of managers are lowlifes....I have to laugh.

You sad strange little man...
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January 16, 2013, 01:44:40 AM
 #2310

What are you left with then?
It is easy. It is called class action lawsuit on behalf of all their customers that do not get full BTC refunds!

Chillax... if it got to this ...the company would be worth 0 cents & u get nothing

Its called being over a barrel and getting it

U have no options...lol  Cry

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January 16, 2013, 01:47:39 AM
 #2311

Also, people change...

Did any of you READ Sonny's write up about what happened?

I'm guessing no.


Yes, sounded like he maintained that he has always been a nice guy, had nothing to apologize for, and in fact was a victim of an evil government. People change, right.  A BFL engineer/executive Nasser then also chimed in, denying that Sony was a scammer, and in fact defending his past. Not even a tiny sign of remorse about the documented, well planned scam carried out by Sony. Inaba responded by derailing threads, offending concerned customers, etc. It is hard for me to believe that anyone would take BFL seriously or treat them with respect, not to mention giving them money for some future product.
Sounds like a culture of coverups (IMO only)


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January 16, 2013, 01:53:24 AM
 #2312

I was of the understanding that the business Sonny participated in was about taking bets on upcoming lottery numbers. Is that wrong? Where can I read the correct information if so?

Basically it was an advance fee fraud where he sent people letters saying they had won a foreign lottery, but they needed to pay an admin fee to have the money released. He deliberately targeted the elderly, believing them to be more vulnerable.

He came on the forums and claimed to be basically running a numbers racket (i.e. an illegal lottery) and claimed that it was perfectly reasonable to run an unregulated, unsupervised lottery and it was just those god damned government regulations that stopped him from making an honest buck by doing so. That would be bad enough but what he was doing was even worse.

He then posted a picture of him with his girlfriend and his new born baby, as if to say "look at me with this little baby, how could I be a bad guy?"

It was one of the most pathetic and insidious things I have ever seen.

This guy is not just "an employee". He is the founder and CEO of the company
Got a link to the pic or thread?

Sounds kind of hard to believe that this guy would try a PR attempt like that.


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January 16, 2013, 01:54:24 AM
 #2313

It'll be fun to come back to posts like this and say "I told you so" when I receive my ASICs.  Wink
Don't be an asshole. It may backfire and if BFL really is a scam people will come back to your posts and tell you "We told you so".

It's not a scam.  All signs point towards a company inexperienced in producing Bitcoin ASICs attempting to produce Bitcoin ASICs. Unexpected delays happen in a LOT of startup companies.  Target dates are missed over and over again in a LOT of startup companies.  Modifying the end product in the middle of the production process happens in a LOT of startup companies.
Going bankrupt before being able to deliver its first product happens in a LOT of startup companies. Managers going nuts and attempting to fuck shareholders over happens in a LOT of startup companies too. Why does it seem so unbelievable to you? Has it never occured to you that we might be right?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If BFL was going to run with the money, they would have done so long ago.  Far more people are cancelling their orders than are keeping them, so they would be stupid to continue the scam (if it was one) and continue to give refunds.  It would be money out of their pockets for no reason at all if it was a scam.  If you believe that anyone with "reasonable intelligence" could conclude BFL is some kind of scam, please do tell why they haven't run yet.
I remember people saying the very same thing about Pirate. He managed to keep his business running flawlessly for about 8 months. People kept asking : if he's a scammer, why hasn't he run with our money yet? Well because a good scammer never runs with his first money. He builds trust over time. He wants to get as many faithful clients as possible and he only runs with their money if the scam is no longer sustainable. Why? Because it's more profitable than to run away with the first few bucks he gets.
Sure, they could go bankrupt.  But that is NOT a scam.  A scam is purposefully taking other people's money for profit or other personal gain, whilst knowing you cannot deliver on the promises you make.  I do not discount the fact that BFL could go bankrupt (though I personally find that scenario unlikely).

Yeah, the big difference being that Pirate had incentive to keep going.  BFL's incentive to keep the scam going is GONE.  Out the window.  Bye-bye.  Refunds have exceeded new orders by a large margin for at least the past month.  BFL is not gaining any more faithful clients like Pirate was.  If anything, they are gaining more distrust and paying out far more in refunds than they are gaining in new pre-orders.  It makes ZERO sense for them to continue the scam if it was a scam.  "he only runs with their money if the scam is no longer sustainable" - that point was reached by BFL a month ago.


they would be stupid to continue the scam (if it was one) and continue to give refunds.
They give only partial refunds! My pre-order is paid in BTC and now they do not honor full BTC refunds!

If you believe that anyone with "reasonable intelligence" could conclude BFL is some kind of scam, please do tell why they haven't run yet.
Because they think they can have perfectly legal profit without doing anything!
You didn't know where the BTC price was going to be 6 months ago.  Neither did BFL.  BFL converted their BTC to USD as soon as they received each order to protect themselves against a BTC price drop.  If BTC was now worth $0.50, I'd bet anything that you'd be demanding a full refund in USD equivalent, not BTC.  And that is exactly what BFL would give you, same as they are giving you today.

The units were priced in USD, and you got the USD equivalent for your return. It would be a FREE hedge against the price of BTC dropping if BFL was to give you a full refund of your entire BTC amount.  That wouldn't be fair to the company at all.

If you wish to continue to propagate this lie (that BFL doesn't give a full refund), then please do take it to a court of law and see if you can get ANY judge to agree with you.

they would be stupid to continue the scam (if it was one) and continue to give refunds.
Pirate gave "refunds" right up until he shut down. If BFL was running a scam, they would continue accepting preorders and giving refunds until the rate of refunds exceeded the rate of preorders.
Right - that's exactly what I am saying.  The rate of refunds has exceeded the rate of new preorders for quite some time (at least a month).  A quick perusal of the various related threads here tells that story quite easily.

I can see how BFL was put in a tough spot a couple months back...  They find out that the QFN package won't be able to be cooled as effectively as they thought it would.  So, what can they do?

If that were true, they would have working sample chips and be able to demo them. No demo, therefore no chips, therefore they are still just spewing lies.
Perhaps.  Maybe they killed all their initial samples by not being able to cool them effectively?  I don't know, I'd like to hear more about that part from Josh.

Give me a break...blah blah blah

As a veteran of R&D tax concessional funding startups

Being an employee is the scam..u get paid 250k as CTO and your mate gets 300k at CEO and your wife gets 180k as PR ...blah..blah blah

Oh look it did not work...we close it down and we owe nothing to no one

So after getting 1.6million in R&D tax funding paying for all sorts of company costs (cars,trips,equipment.etc.etc).... 19 months later you walk away going whats our next project

bASIC was definitely won of these IMHO

BFL Who knows..but honestly grow up

We all want to believe in ASIC so maybe its true maybe its not but from the outside looking in its a BIT SCARY to say the least...lol

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January 16, 2013, 02:03:07 AM
 #2314

I was of the understanding that the business Sonny participated in was about taking bets on upcoming lottery numbers. Is that wrong? Where can I read the correct information if so?

Basically it was an advance fee fraud where he sent people letters saying they had won a foreign lottery, but they needed to pay an admin fee to have the money released. He deliberately targeted the elderly, believing them to be more vulnerable.

He came on the forums and claimed to be basically running a numbers racket (i.e. an illegal lottery) and claimed that it was perfectly reasonable to run an unregulated, unsupervised lottery and it was just those god damned government regulations that stopped him from making an honest buck by doing so. That would be bad enough but what he was doing was even worse.

He then posted a picture of him with his girlfriend and his new born baby, as if to say "look at me with this little baby, how could I be a bad guy?"

It was one of the most pathetic and insidious things I have ever seen.

This guy is not just "an employee". He is the founder and CEO of the company
Got a link to the pic or thread?

Sounds kind of hard to believe that this guy would try a PR attempt like that.

Here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110868.msg1207670#msg1207670

Sonny Vleisides

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January 16, 2013, 02:04:39 AM
 #2315

.. Now i want my BTC back because ----?
Because ---- you didn't deliver what I paid you for!
Month after month after month after month nothing but baloney!

Jesus christ, just shut the fck up and cry to your mom.

Stupid bitch shouldnt have offsprings to begin with.


+1 Let it go

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January 16, 2013, 02:09:52 AM
 #2316

Quote
As an example, I tell you I am ready to ship and fulfill all pre-orders in October 2012. Then in Mid-January I retell the same tale and say that we only received a small number of chips in October and found a problem. How do you explain that discrepancy? Weren't they supposed to be shipping in mass in October? Why didn't Josh say they received a large number of chips in October to fulfill their massive pre-orders? Is this a typo or a mistake?

Did you all know (by now) how long it takes to bake chips at the Fab? Do you all know that BFL has stated that they were using a technique which involved holding the chips half baked to test the quality of their design...and once sure...complete the other wafers or make adjustments. You do realize (I hope) that BFl was using a dense chip with many more layers (than their competitors) and that each layer takes about a day to deposit in the manufacturing process. (30+ Layers)

Holy shit PuertoLibre, you've somehow, incredibly, managed to out do yourself this time.  You'e managed to pack more fail into two paragraphs than I thought was even possible.  I'll let someone else explain why everything you said here is so completely idiotic that it may be impossible to know where to even begin correcting you (I would vote for 8.9 months before you were born and it involves a coat hanger and a bottle of JD).



You are such a delight...love & kisses

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January 16, 2013, 02:15:04 AM
 #2317

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?


I have no money in this and I believe BFL is sincerely trying to build what they are saying they're trying to build. I also believe they have not the slightest idea what they are doing.

+1

Agreed..and if it all turns bad ...they got paid for the experience

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January 16, 2013, 02:20:51 AM
 #2318

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?
Calling names doesn't lead to intelligent discussions with any sort of desirable results.  I would advise against it.

As I've said before, BFL very much looks like a company inexperienced in creating ASICs, creating ASICs.  They could be a scam, but I am doubtful, simply because they would have already run with the money if they were.  The logical conclusion is that they have indeed had the setbacks Josh has recently written in detail about, and that they will eventually produce their ASIC products.

Your opinion would carry more weight if they weren't holding your money.

There could be any number of reasons why they haven't run with the money. The new pre-orders coming in could exceed the rate of refunds (wouldn't surprise me considering how heavily they still advertise) or they could still be putting together their method for running with the money. You can't just put $5m on a suitcase and get on a plane.

1 word re- your "they would be gone by now"

Madoff he did it for ~20 years

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YipYip
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January 16, 2013, 02:22:53 AM
 #2319

B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

Would you trust him with your 13 year old daughter?

Why then would you trust a convicted thief with large sums of money?

+1

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January 16, 2013, 02:26:21 AM
 #2320

Also, people change...

Did any of you READ Sonny's write up about what happened?

I'm guessing no.


Wait let me Guess he had the same answer if u ask 95% of all inmates in prison

"HES INOCENT"
"WAS LEAD ASTRAY"
"WAS WITH A BAD CROWD"
"DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENing"

but most of all its not me i was just here walking my dog and got caught up in this international lotto scam..before i knew it me and the dog where in too deep and could not find a way out...

...lol

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