[Archive] BFL trolling museum

[DobZombie]

Try opening a cyber cafe and running the numbers between "thin client" 5watt machines vs 400 watt fully equipped PC's. You will quickly notice that the difference is marginal over a single day. And barely worth the trade-offs in the span of a month.

(Now in the span of years, those cents and dollars add up.

Buddy, we all don't live in the land of fairy's and flying pigs ya know.

Most of us actually pay a ridiculous amount for electricity nowadays

I'm Queensland, Australia it's currently $0.23 KW/h.  Which is an extra $1.80 per day that we don't have to spend.

If I gotta wait a few more weeks for my ASIC, it's an extra $644 I don't have to spend over the course of a years.

Marginal my arse.

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[PuertoLibre]

Try opening a cyber cafe and running the numbers between "thin client" 5watt machines vs 400 watt fully equipped PC's. You will quickly notice that the difference is marginal over a single day. And barely worth the trade-offs in the span of a month.

(Now in the span of years, those cents and dollars add up.

Buddy, we all don't live in the land of fairy's and flying pigs ya know.

Most of us actually pay a ridiculous amount for electricity nowadays

I'm Queensland, Australia it's currently $0.23 KW/h.  Which is an extra $1.80 per day that we don't have to spend.

If I gotta wait a few more weeks for my ASIC, it's an extra $644 I don't have to spend over the course of a years.

Marginal my arse.

Take it up with BFL!

(By the way, I genuinely sympathize that you have to pay such high electrical rates.)

[PuertoLibre]

Try opening a cyber cafe and running the numbers between "thin client" 5watt machines vs 400 watt fully equipped PC's. You will quickly notice that the difference is marginal over a single day. And barely worth the trade-offs in the span of a month.

(Now in the span of years, those cents and dollars add up.

Buddy, we all don't live in the land of fairy's and flying pigs ya know.

Most of us actually pay a ridiculous amount for electricity nowadays

I'm Queensland, Australia it's currently $0.23 KW/h.  Which is an extra $1.80 per day that we don't have to spend.

If I gotta wait a few more weeks for my ASIC, it's an extra $644 I don't have to spend over the course of a years.

Marginal my arse.

1.80 per day
1.80 x 30 = 54 per month
1.80 x 365 = 648 per year.

Selling cigarettes to strangers on a street corner...25cents per cig.

Ergo: You'd be better off selling cigarettes on a street corner by the time you have to worry about your rig making that small a profit margin.

[meowmeowbrowncow]

Try opening a cyber cafe and running the numbers between "thin client" 5watt machines vs 400 watt fully equipped PC's. You will quickly notice that the difference is marginal over a single day. And barely worth the trade-offs in the span of a month.

(Now in the span of years, those cents and dollars add up.

Buddy, we all don't live in the land of fairy's and flying pigs ya know.

Most of us actually pay a ridiculous amount for electricity nowadays

I'm Queensland, Australia it's currently $0.23 KW/h.  Which is an extra $1.80 per day that we don't have to spend.

If I gotta wait a few more weeks for my ASIC, it's an extra $644 I don't have to spend over the course of a years.

Marginal my arse.

1.80 per day
1.80 x 30 = 54 per month
1.80 x 365 = 648 per year.

Selling cigarettes to strangers on a street corner...25cents per cig.

Ergo: You'd be better off selling cigarettes on a street corner by the time you have to worry about your rig making that small a profit margin.

Yep.  All of this bickering over kWh and slivers of profit at a point in time where difficulty is so high.


Better off worrying about USD/GH.  BFL selling anyone a chip for 150 that costs 2 to produce when ROI will be near 12 months is madness.

[MrTeal]

With 66Ghash, 400 Watt, current difficulty, $0.15/kWh, 15$/BTC your revenue per day is $152.

Once Avalon has shipped all units of their first batch difficulty will be approx. 6,000,000. Your revenue per day will still be $78.

Even with 4,000 Watt it would be $65.

You see, power consumption does not make such a big difference as BFL/Josh claims.

If you add on all of BFL's preorders, difficulty will go up over 100,000,000. 

a 60GH/s device will only make $5.  power will cost $8.  So when all the paid for ASICs are in the wild, the low power usage devices are gunna look pretty good!

I call bullshit on that. That would be a network hashrate of 750TH/s. BFL may have done well with their preorders, but their numbers are more likely 1/5th of that based on previous comments Inaba has made.

[kano]

...

Yep.  All of this bickering over kWh and slivers of profit at a point in time where difficulty is so high.


Better off worrying about USD/GH.  BFL selling anyone a chip for 150 that costs 2 to produce when ROI will be near 12 months is madness.

Well it's even worse than that:

FPGA -> ASIC

Firstly it doesn't matter the GH/s it does, coz everyone who buys one will be getting that sort of GH/s

Seriously, everyone is simply upgrading their hardware for no gain ... well actually for way less gain ...

Secondly, the price from FPGA -> ASIC = 2x

So entry cost to the same competition has doubled

But wait, halving!

So gross return has also halved.

... OK you see the picture?

As has been stated before, at the goldfields, the guy who sells the mining equipment gets the gold ...

... damn I should be selling cgminer

[meowmeowbrowncow]

...

Yep.  All of this bickering over kWh and slivers of profit at a point in time where difficulty is so high.


Better off worrying about USD/GH.  BFL selling anyone a chip for 150 that costs 2 to produce when ROI will be near 12 months is madness.

Well it's even worse than that:

FPGA -> ASIC

Firstly it doesn't matter the GH/s it does, coz everyone who buys one will be getting that sort of GH/s

Seriously, everyone is simply upgrading their hardware for no gain ... well actually for way less gain ...

Secondly, the price from FPGA -> ASIC = 2x

So entry cost to the same competition has doubled

But wait, halving!

So gross return has also halved.

... OK you see the picture?

As has been stated before, at the goldfields, the guy who sells the mining equipment gets the gold ...

... damn I should be selling cgminer

Yep.  Nothing much else to say that isn't an obvious conclusion.


(The most obvious is that asics should have been crowd funded and developed in open source fashion)

[nathanrees19]

$0.15/kWh

I pay double that.

current difficulty

Ahahahaha.

Too funny.

[DutchBrat]

And it won't be long until prices of shovels come crashing down as difficulty skyrockets....

But hey... someone has got to do the digging !

[MrTeal]

$0.15/kWh

I pay double that.

current difficulty

Ahahahaha.

Too funny.

Actually, talking about current difficulty is surprisingly valid, at least for the first few people who get their Avalons. Difficulty is going to readjust in two days, after which we're going to have another 2016 blocks at around 3M difficulty. Even if all the Avalon units ship tomorrow and hit the network in 3 days, they would still have a week of mining at the current difficulty and would earn around 80BTC before the difficulty readjusted.

Of course, all the Avalons won't ship tomorrow so it will be better for those who get theirs early and worse for those who get theirs late, but those Avalon customers who get their units before CNY will probably have them paid off and have a little bonus spending coin by the end of February. Not that it really matters now, but first batch Avalon customers are the big early winners in the ASIC market.

[Syke]

If you add on all of BFL's preorders, difficulty will go up over 100,000,000.  [/b]

a 60GH/s device will only make $5.  power will cost $8.  So when all the paid for ASICs are in the wild, the low power usage devices are gunna look pretty good!

I call bullshit on that. That would be a network hashrate of 750TH/s. BFL may have done well with their preorders, but their numbers are more likely 1/5th of that based on previous comments Inaba has made.

Cancellations have taken their toll. BFL is only ordering 10,000 chips, so well under 75 TH/s is due to be shipped in the first batch.

[creativex]

Why do so many quote BFL's power "spec" as a firm number? BFL was WAY off on their last product's power specs, they do not have chips, and wasn't it their rep that was backpedaling on power consumption estimates just recently? Their power "spec" is a guess and likely a wild ass overly optimistic guess at that, just like their shipping dates.  

[MrTeal]

If you add on all of BFL's preorders, difficulty will go up over 100,000,000.  [/b]

a 60GH/s device will only make $5.  power will cost $8.  So when all the paid for ASICs are in the wild, the low power usage devices are gunna look pretty good!

I call bullshit on that. That would be a network hashrate of 750TH/s. BFL may have done well with their preorders, but their numbers are more likely 1/5th of that based on previous comments Inaba has made.

Cancellations have taken their toll. BFL is only ordering 10,000 chips, so well under 75 TH/s is due to be shipped in the first batch.

Source for any of that? BFL most likely only has 10k-12k coming in their first batch because that was all the could fit in that run, but there's no indication that all the preorders will be covered by the first batch. They haven' had that many big cancellations that have been revealed, and there's still 55Th/s listed just on the wait list thread.

[Korbman]

They haven' had that many big cancellations that have been revealed, and there's still 55Th/s listed just on the wait list thread.

This.

Only small time, impatient miners have cancelled their orders. Once I see users with an actual substantial investment (see Fefox or Gigavps) in BFL start to cancel, then I might reconsider...which is very unlikely to happen.

[DobZombie]

Only small time, WHINGY, impatient miners have cancelled their orders.  Also when the same 3 people keep saying 80% have taken refunds, it doesn't make it happen.

Fixed it for ya!

also, I got money on a bet saying DIFFICULTY will be 100,000,000 by 1st Jan 2014.  I'm confidant, how about you lot?

[creativex]

Only small time, WHINGY, impatient miners have cancelled their orders.  Also when the same 3 people keep saying 80% have taken refunds, it doesn't make it happen.

Fixed it for ya!

also, I got money on a bet saying DIFFICULTY will be 100,000,000 by 1st Jan 2014.  I'm confidant, how about you lot?

I'm confident saying that tying up BTC on a bet that won't be resolved for a year is a very poor investment.

...no idea what difficulty will be 344 days in the future.

[Korbman]

I'm confident saying that tying up BTC on a bet that won't be resolved for a year is a very poor investment.

...no idea what difficulty will be 344 days in the future.

At least not until all preordered ASICs are in the wild and we can figure out how steady the growth rate resumes after that. That, and watching organofcorti's blog

[SgtSpike]

Only small time, WHINGY, impatient miners have cancelled their orders.  Also when the same 3 people keep saying 80% have taken refunds, it doesn't make it happen.

Fixed it for ya!

also, I got money on a bet saying DIFFICULTY will be 100,000,000 by 1st Jan 2014.  I'm confidant, how about you lot?

The only way I see that happening is if the Bitcoin price goes up significantly from here...

[DutchBrat]

Only small time, WHINGY, impatient miners have cancelled their orders.  Also when the same 3 people keep saying 80% have taken refunds, it doesn't make it happen.

Fixed it for ya!

also, I got money on a bet saying DIFFICULTY will be 100,000,000 by 1st Jan 2014.  I'm confidant, how about you lot?

The only way I see that happening is if the Bitcoin price goes up significantly from here...

Or the price of ASICs fall fast...

[repentance]

Cancellations have taken their toll. BFL is only ordering 10,000 chips, so well under 75 TH/s is due to be shipped in the first batch.

Josh has said that the reduction in the number of chips in the first batch is due to the design changes - they'll get less chips per wafer with the upgraded design.

We have no idea what specs any ASIC vendor will actually ship with.  We also have no idea how much - if any - disabled capacity each vendor will have.