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Author Topic: [ANN][XEL] Elastic Project - The Decentralized Supercomputer  (Read 449657 times)
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February 06, 2017, 09:23:36 AM
 #3661


Where to buy xel?
what the  price?

You can't buy it yet, still on testnet. Should be released in March.
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February 06, 2017, 10:03:25 AM
 #3662

I have a doubt regarding the redeem, apologies if it is answered.
How do you sign a text in Omniwallet?
If I can not, where do you recommend that I export the wallet to be able to sign the text?

thank you very much

Join the XEL revolution!  XEL - Decentralized Grid-computing
XEL WEBSITE | ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD | XEL DISCORD | XEL WIKI
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February 06, 2017, 11:18:07 AM
 #3663

I have a doubt regarding the redeem, apologies if it is answered.
How do you sign a text in Omniwallet?
If I can not, where do you recommend that I export the wallet to be able to sign the text?

thank you very much

I don't know if omniwallet supports message sign but if not, you can try to export/backup your private key, import it to the desktop software (i.e. Electrum) and sign message there.

BTC: 1CMgHWx4wkAaAy2FfeCyPdedUExmhGhfi5
XEL: XEL-HCM8-KB6E-YFLK-8BWMF
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February 06, 2017, 11:35:02 AM
 #3664

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation with ours donation to EK and team.
Lanniester escaped from project and i dont know why would EK and team work free of charge.

Everybody can give (free will) 10-20% of personal shares to XEL fundation.

My suggestion: we can donate to fondation before genesis block will be out (we all can sign message and pm % of donations).


IOTA
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February 06, 2017, 11:42:18 AM
 #3665


Nice update!

What about malicious guard nodes? Lets say a guard node intentionally and falsely marks a supernode as a liar and so the supernode looses his XEL?

Maybe the supernode don't immediately loose it's xel but the payout is held in escrow/smartcontract until other supernodes verify. Or it must be some 3 out of 5 or 2 out of 3 check.
Regards

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February 06, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
 #3666

Heard a lot about elastic everywhere and it got my attention.
I would like to invest in elastic.Any idea which exchange is it going to be listed after mainnet?
I hope I get to buy it cheap Grin
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February 06, 2017, 12:21:48 PM
 #3667

Hi Community,

I am writing you to give you a short overview of what we have done so far, why we have done it, and what (from our point of view) still has to be done - and when. I have been moving to a new town in the last days, so

First of all, we had a last-minute idea - the idea of introducing so called super nodes. The reasons were:

1. Since earlier everyone had to verify work, we were very limited: we had very strict constraints regarding the complexity and memory requirement of work packages, simply due to the reason that the weakest node still has to be able to verify everything in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, netsplits or node shootdowns would be possible with complex long running tasks. With super nodes we are more flexible: we can set strict requirements that a super node's hardware has to meet and so can allow programs that run longer and use more memory.
Supernodes are basically nodes that do the verification and have no incentive to cheat due to a huge deposit. Contrary to other "well hyped solutions" we do not rely on trust at all ... all calculations and decisions that the super nodes perform can be publicly verified by anyone. For example by the so called guard nodes. These are nodes that randomly cross-check a small fraction of jobs. If they detect that a super node lied, its deposit gets forfeited.

2. Also, earlier a bug in the implementation (causing an infinite loop for example) could halt the whole network since every node is execution the task. Now, the network is safe from this. Also, the super node software will have emergency stop mechanisms that would prevent bugs to crash anything. Again, this design has several benefits here. It's better if one supernode freezes for 15 seconds before it detects the anomaly than if every node in the network freezes for 15 seconds.

3. Also, and this is a PR benefit, the earlier design effectively executed foreign code on the own hardware. While it's super safe due to Elastic PL's nature (our own programming language that does not allow to program anything dangerous), managers who want to use Elastic in their commercial setting might get scared. Now, nobody but the supernodes has to execute anything.


So where are we?
--------------------

We have the code base done that incorporates the new logic into the core client. The supernode functionality is there (except one little detail still missing - the guard node logic). And we have the miner done which - since super nodes and miners execute the same code - can be used for both.

What is missing with deadline dates
----------------------------------------

The following packages are still missing and are planned (not promised) to be finished as follows (London time):

09.02.2017 - The core package with guard logic is finished and goes into code-review mode
12.02.2017 - The supernode extension was added to the miner so that it can be used to verify work of others
13.-14.02.2017 - I am offline
17.02.2017 - Guard node software is finished. Parallely, everything goes into testnet mode for heavy testing
18.02.2017 - Open discussion round here, about how things are working out and specially about the retargeting algorithm that we currently have (there were ideas how to get rid of it)
18-24.02.2017 - Grace period to fix problems that we found in the test net
26.02.2017 - I will have written all details about the system down (both technically and non technically) for those guys of you, who are responsible for the PR parts (website, video, whatever)
27.02.2017 - Last discussion here in the thread
28.02.2017 - Milestone freeze, first ready-to-use version should be finished by then. I (and all the others that work on the code) am/are just (an) interested code monkey/s who love/s fascinating tech. We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it! Remember: we are doing it for you guys, and not to run a company or something by ourselves. Just do with it whatever you like.

Disclaimer
----------------------------------------
We do not run anything, we do not take responsibility for anything. We code because we love coding, and if in doubt just suggest the appropriate changes and we can figure things out. Nobody forces anyone to use anything, and nobody promises anything. We code as good as we can, ... to reduce the likelihood of bugs (which always may or may not occur) we would appreciate to get more eyes on the code. Also: if you think you can do it better ... then just do it!

After everything works out, I am sure we can think about new cool features that pop into our heads.


Great updated! Canot wait to see u Milestone version. Grin
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February 06, 2017, 01:03:58 PM
 #3668

Hi Community,

I am writing you to give you a short overview of what we have done so far, why we have done it, and what (from our point of view) still has to be done - and when. I have been moving to a new town in the last days, so

First of all, we had a last-minute idea - the idea of introducing so called super nodes. The reasons were:

1. Since earlier everyone had to verify work, we were very limited: we had very strict constraints regarding the complexity and memory requirement of work packages, simply due to the reason that the weakest node still has to be able to verify everything in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, netsplits or node shootdowns would be possible with complex long running tasks. With super nodes we are more flexible: we can set strict requirements that a super node's hardware has to meet and so can allow programs that run longer and use more memory.
Supernodes are basically nodes that do the verification and have no incentive to cheat due to a huge deposit. Contrary to other "well hyped solutions" we do not rely on trust at all ... all calculations and decisions that the super nodes perform can be publicly verified by anyone. For example by the so called guard nodes. These are nodes that randomly cross-check a small fraction of jobs. If they detect that a super node lied, its deposit gets forfeited.

2. Also, earlier a bug in the implementation (causing an infinite loop for example) could halt the whole network since every node is execution the task. Now, the network is safe from this. Also, the super node software will have emergency stop mechanisms that would prevent bugs to crash anything. Again, this design has several benefits here. It's better if one supernode freezes for 15 seconds before it detects the anomaly than if every node in the network freezes for 15 seconds.

3. Also, and this is a PR benefit, the earlier design effectively executed foreign code on the own hardware. While it's super safe due to Elastic PL's nature (our own programming language that does not allow to program anything dangerous), managers who want to use Elastic in their commercial setting might get scared. Now, nobody but the supernodes has to execute anything.


So where are we?
--------------------

We have the code base done that incorporates the new logic into the core client. The supernode functionality is there (except one little detail still missing - the guard node logic). And we have the miner done which - since super nodes and miners execute the same code - can be used for both.

What is missing with deadline dates
----------------------------------------

The following packages are still missing and are planned (not promised) to be finished as follows (London time):

09.02.2017 - The core package with guard logic is finished and goes into code-review mode
12.02.2017 - The supernode extension was added to the miner so that it can be used to verify work of others
13.-14.02.2017 - I am offline
17.02.2017 - Guard node software is finished. Parallely, everything goes into testnet mode for heavy testing
18.02.2017 - Open discussion round here, about how things are working out and specially about the retargeting algorithm that we currently have (there were ideas how to get rid of it)
18-24.02.2017 - Grace period to fix problems that we found in the test net
26.02.2017 - I will have written all details about the system down (both technically and non technically) for those guys of you, who are responsible for the PR parts (website, video, whatever)
27.02.2017 - Last discussion here in the thread
28.02.2017 - Milestone freeze, first ready-to-use version should be finished by then. I (and all the others that work on the code) am/are just (an) interested code monkey/s who love/s fascinating tech. We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it! Remember: we are doing it for you guys, and not to run a company or something by ourselves. Just do with it whatever you like.

Disclaimer
----------------------------------------
We do not run anything, we do not take responsibility for anything. We code because we love coding, and if in doubt just suggest the appropriate changes and we can figure things out. Nobody forces anyone to use anything, and nobody promises anything. We code as good as we can, ... to reduce the likelihood of bugs (which always may or may not occur) we would appreciate to get more eyes on the code. Also: if you think you can do it better ... then just do it!

After everything works out, I am sure we can think about new cool features that pop into our heads.

Great news.
I can not wait to be on mainnet.

Elastic has great commercial potential.

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February 06, 2017, 01:11:48 PM
 #3669

@EK,  i appreciate your efforts. But community need your support for release... you know..
if you /or your team can keep going to develop bug fix etc., then release, it will be enough for community.

To hire a Security Engineer, contact me.
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February 06, 2017, 01:23:35 PM
 #3670

Hi Community,

I am writing you to give you a short overview of what we have done so far, why we have done it, and what (from our point of view) still has to be done - and when. I have been moving to a new town in the last days, so

First of all, we had a last-minute idea - the idea of introducing so called super nodes. The reasons were:

1. Since earlier everyone had to verify work, we were very limited: we had very strict constraints regarding the complexity and memory requirement of work packages, simply due to the reason that the weakest node still has to be able to verify everything in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, netsplits or node shootdowns would be possible with complex long running tasks. With super nodes we are more flexible: we can set strict requirements that a super node's hardware has to meet and so can allow programs that run longer and use more memory.
Supernodes are basically nodes that do the verification and have no incentive to cheat due to a huge deposit. Contrary to other "well hyped solutions" we do not rely on trust at all ... all calculations and decisions that the super nodes perform can be publicly verified by anyone. For example by the so called guard nodes. These are nodes that randomly cross-check a small fraction of jobs. If they detect that a super node lied, its deposit gets forfeited.

2. Also, earlier a bug in the implementation (causing an infinite loop for example) could halt the whole network since every node is execution the task. Now, the network is safe from this. Also, the super node software will have emergency stop mechanisms that would prevent bugs to crash anything. Again, this design has several benefits here. It's better if one supernode freezes for 15 seconds before it detects the anomaly than if every node in the network freezes for 15 seconds.

3. Also, and this is a PR benefit, the earlier design effectively executed foreign code on the own hardware. While it's super safe due to Elastic PL's nature (our own programming language that does not allow to program anything dangerous), managers who want to use Elastic in their commercial setting might get scared. Now, nobody but the supernodes has to execute anything.


So where are we?
--------------------

We have the code base done that incorporates the new logic into the core client. The supernode functionality is there (except one little detail still missing - the guard node logic). And we have the miner done which - since super nodes and miners execute the same code - can be used for both.

What is missing with deadline dates
----------------------------------------

The following packages are still missing and are planned (not promised) to be finished as follows (London time):

09.02.2017 - The core package with guard logic is finished and goes into code-review mode
12.02.2017 - The supernode extension was added to the miner so that it can be used to verify work of others
13.-14.02.2017 - I am offline
17.02.2017 - Guard node software is finished. Parallely, everything goes into testnet mode for heavy testing
18.02.2017 - Open discussion round here, about how things are working out and specially about the retargeting algorithm that we currently have (there were ideas how to get rid of it)
18-24.02.2017 - Grace period to fix problems that we found in the test net
26.02.2017 - I will have written all details about the system down (both technically and non technically) for those guys of you, who are responsible for the PR parts (website, video, whatever)
27.02.2017 - Last discussion here in the thread
28.02.2017 - Milestone freeze, first ready-to-use version should be finished by then. I (and all the others that work on the code) am/are just (an) interested code monkey/s who love/s fascinating tech. We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it! Remember: we are doing it for you guys, and not to run a company or something by ourselves. Just do with it whatever you like.

Disclaimer
----------------------------------------
We do not run anything, we do not take responsibility for anything. We code because we love coding, and if in doubt just suggest the appropriate changes and we can figure things out. Nobody forces anyone to use anything, and nobody promises anything. We code as good as we can, ... to reduce the likelihood of bugs (which always may or may not occur) we would appreciate to get more eyes on the code. Also: if you think you can do it better ... then just do it!

After everything works out, I am sure we can think about new cool features that pop into our heads.

Great news.
I can not wait to be on mainnet.

Elastic has great commercial potential.

It is the super star project in this year, let us see. ICO was funded with 700 BTC, the fund should be enough for future development, fortunately devs are very working hard, we are lucky investors.
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February 06, 2017, 01:29:13 PM
 #3671

@EK, first I wish to thank you and the rest of the developers for doing this amazing work so far!! Your effort is highly appreciated.

I would also like to ask of you to be involved in the launch later on when the time is right. You are talented, highly trusted, and very respected by all. I think that you are an important valued pillar for this project. I have no doubt that we will have the best launch if you are also involved in it as much as you can and wish to be.

The community will surely make efforts to push PR so the world sees this project and it's value as the gem it is.

Thank you for the update, exciting days await us all! Smiley
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February 06, 2017, 02:21:10 PM
 #3672

We will not launch anything, we just give the code to the community, so if the community thinks the system (that we suggested) is good, just launch it yourself by using it!

I can not criticize the magnitude of your contributions, but really it would help to have an organized launch, with either you or one of the other top developers involved.

AFAIK, there is no strong reason otherwise, unless you're concerned about some kind of legal risks, which seem inapplicable.

Elastic can expand to a community of thousands over time after release, but, right now, there are just a handful of visitors to a bitcointalk thread, most casuals like me.  There is not much of a community yet, only later.

Sure, I'd even try launching it myself if nobody else would, but I'd be the first to describe that as suboptimal, as I'd barely know what I was doing.

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation

Even if your pre-release donation idea doesn't happen, publishing a pair of donation addresses would be good, one in Bitcoin and one in Elastic.

Funding to a foundation would help for further development and upkeep post-release.

I'm not the person to set such up, having no reputation, but someone else could.
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February 06, 2017, 03:19:45 PM
 #3673

I think it would be great if more people become active in the community. It does help to have a more organized PR/launch.

Few questions/thoughts:

1. Do we have a slack? If not - let's have one created.
2. Roadmap with use cases - would be nice to make some slick infographics, so the public has an idea where this is going without having to read through 100s of pages in the thread
3. Exchanges integration should be easy if the RPC is the same as in NXT (which I assume it is, since it is the same code base). Still some guides for exchanges might be useful.
4. A separate forum might be good to setup as well, but for now a slack should suffice.
5. If the OP is nowhere to be found, do we have a way to update the first post? Perhaps it's time to create a new thread?

Perhaps a vote could be done by the stakeholders and dedicate % to setting up a foundation in order to cover costs for future efforts.
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February 06, 2017, 06:07:50 PM
 #3674

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation with ours donation to EK and team.
Lanniester escaped from project and i dont know why would EK and team work free of charge.

Everybody can give (free will) 10-20% of personal shares to XEL fundation.

My suggestion: we can donate to fondation before genesis block will be out (we all can sign message and pm % of donations).



Can I please have a short review of exactly what happened with Lannister leaving the project and EK taking over (or, if I'm misunderstanding, a brief timeline)?

Has the raised BTC been paid/disbursed and fully allocated to developers as payment for the task of bringing XEL to the point of mainnet launch, and from that point, the project amounts to a community takeover?

twitter.com/notsofast
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February 06, 2017, 06:27:33 PM
 #3675

I see it this way - and this is just my personal view: A decentralized project does not need a leader, does not neet a company and does not need a foundation. Futhermore, a well programmed decentralized project doesn't need anyone, who has more to say than others or takes the responsibility for either man power or planning decisions.

That's why I love decentralization and why I hate crypto companies. I would have never gotten involved in any of the other projects, who first think to form a company (for the image of course) and then start working in some old fashion structures.

But go ahead, it's a free world, why not making a foundation. It's just that I don't want to enter ... but who am I to decide anything  Wink

Now, I am getting back to work .. not because a boss tells me to, but because it is pure fun! Yet, I am not saying that getting rewarded is a bad thing! Everyone got to pay his bills.
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February 06, 2017, 06:51:37 PM
 #3676

I see it this way - and this is just my personal view: A decentralized project does not need a leader, does not neet a company and does not need a foundation. Futhermore, a well programmed decentralized project doesn't need anyone, who has more to say than others or takes the responsibility for either man power or planning decisions.

That's why I love decentralization and why I hate crypto companies. I would have never gotten involved in any of the other projects, who first think to form a company (for the image of course) and then start working in some old fashion structures.

But go ahead, it's a free world, why not making a foundation. It's just that I don't want to enter ... but who am I to decide anything  Wink

Now, I am getting back to work .. not because a boss tells me to, but because it is pure fun! Yet, I am not saying that getting rewarded is a bad thing! Everyone got to pay his bills.

Every project needs a leader - right now you are the leader, and the code is hosted on a centralized github.

Also for promo activities - it is hard to organize any marketing effort without a leader.

Doesn't even have to be a foundation - but the project could benefit from hiring some people to promote it, and not all talent is interested in having crypto as a reward for their effort. A foundation could take care of converting the asset so that it pays the talent.

At the very least you need a place for community to collaborate. Not just on Github. Most projects have at least a Slack community and it does help a lot.
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February 06, 2017, 07:24:23 PM
 #3677

I see it this way - and this is just my personal view: A decentralized project does not need a leader, does not neet a company and does not need a foundation. Futhermore, a well programmed decentralized project doesn't need anyone, who has more to say than others or takes the responsibility for either man power or planning decisions.

That's why I love decentralization and why I hate crypto companies. I would have never gotten involved in any of the other projects, who first think to form a company (for the image of course) and then start working in some old fashion structures.

But go ahead, it's a free world, why not making a foundation. It's just that I don't want to enter ... but who am I to decide anything  Wink

Now, I am getting back to work .. not because a boss tells me to, but because it is pure fun! Yet, I am not saying that getting rewarded is a bad thing! Everyone got to pay his bills.

Every project needs a leader - right now you are the leader, and the code is hosted on a centralized github.

Also for promo activities - it is hard to organize any marketing effort without a leader.

Doesn't even have to be a foundation - but the project could benefit from hiring some people to promote it, and not all talent is interested in having crypto as a reward for their effort. A foundation could take care of converting the asset so that it pays the talent.

At the very least you need a place for community to collaborate. Not just on Github. Most projects have at least a Slack community and it does help a lot.

leeder is a term for somebody who makes decisions and not the work. work can be done by anyone who want to contribute. decision can be done through voting. i think thats the message he wants to give us and i  totally agree. that does not mean we cant have a foundation pool money for paying people. we could control this just by voting if we would have some code for it. just open a  slack if you want btw
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February 06, 2017, 07:26:34 PM
Last edit: February 06, 2017, 07:43:09 PM by HmmMAA
 #3678


At the very least you need a place for community to collaborate. Not just on Github. Most projects have at least a Slack community and it does help a lot.


There is allready a slack channel , i don't remember who is the creator , you can sign here elasticfans.herokuapp.com
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February 06, 2017, 07:30:39 PM
Last edit: February 06, 2017, 07:58:41 PM by HomoHenning
 #3679

i think we need to set up some kind of XEL fundation with ours donation to EK and team.
Lanniester escaped from project and i dont know why would EK and team work free of charge.

Everybody can give (free will) 10-20% of personal shares to XEL fundation.

My suggestion: we can donate to fondation before genesis block will be out (we all can sign message and pm % of donations).



Can I please have a short review of exactly what happened with Lannister leaving the project and EK taking over (or, if I'm misunderstanding, a brief timeline)?

Has the raised BTC been paid/disbursed and fully allocated to developers as payment for the task of bringing XEL to the point of mainnet launch, and from that point, the project amounts to a community takeover?
lannister is offline since november.  evel coded XEL for free.
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February 06, 2017, 07:56:39 PM
 #3680

I see it this way - and this is just my personal view: A decentralized project does not need a leader, does not neet a company and does not need a foundation. Futhermore, a well programmed decentralized project doesn't need anyone, who has more to say than others or takes the responsibility for either man power or planning decisions.

That's why I love decentralization and why I hate crypto companies. I would have never gotten involved in any of the other projects, who first think to form a company (for the image of course) and then start working in some old fashion structures.

But go ahead, it's a free world, why not making a foundation. It's just that I don't want to enter ... but who am I to decide anything  Wink

Now, I am getting back to work .. not because a boss tells me to, but because it is pure fun! Yet, I am not saying that getting rewarded is a bad thing! Everyone got to pay his bills.

You might not necessarily need a leader or leaders, but you do need a planner or planners.  The community can be the final arbitrator, but you still need an individual, group or team to put forward suggestions for the community to decide upon and for the individual, group or team to action.

Getting the PR done requires ensuring that specified tasks get done and that the tasks are the responsibility of specific individuals.  This way you ensure that all the tasks get done.

Updating the website can only be performed by those that have access to it and someone (or several someones) need to control the official email account for the project and ensure that the messages/Press Releases, etc. that go out, do so with the understanding and agreement of the community.  These tasks cannot be performed randomly and need to be coordinated.

I'm willing to work as part of a PR team and it would be a good idea if we could identify who will be in the PR team now, to begin identifying and assigning tasks, in order to promote the Elastic project.
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