[Avalon ASIC] Batch #2 pre-Sale Thread

[PuertoLibre]

I understand that BFL at this current time hasn't shown anything and they pretty much have nothing of substance to show, but atleast they aren't asking for a second round of 100% deposits on units when nothing has materialized. People of Bitcointalk, please don't buy into the second round until team Avalon shows something from batch 1. Any potential customer considering batch 2 needs to be aware that you will more than likely be on the losing end of that financial transaction and the risk you are taking with your BTC is simply put, not worth it. You may likely gain more value from just holding on to $1500.00 worth of BTC in the next few months.

Uh, in case you missed the above. BFL are still taking orders. they are already up to 17k in their order number.

So your outrage should be universal and not one sided.

@MrTeal / PuertroLibre:

I stand corrected, but my point still stands with regards to this particular threat & post. I think PuertoLibre, you are doing a good job of extracting and exposing information about BFL but seriously this thread reeks of all sorts of crazy. Atleast BFL take pre-order payments via Paypal and chargeback can be done via CC but to ask for 100% down payment with BTC in this situation is nuts.

I actually agree with you.

Believe it or not I am not blind to the short comings of Avalon.

Even when BFL_Josh (Inaba) points out something valid I give him credence. I am a Fan of Avalon (well as much as a "fan" as you can be over a device??) but I am not a FanBoy.

(FanBoys are irrational)

[1714937997]

1714937997

[1714937997]

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[PuertoLibre]

I would also like to expound on one of the more obvious points that I think as Americans we may be missing.

Avalon does not want to do customer service.

They want you to pay, then put the device into your hands and off you go. They don't exactly strive to be "personal". (From what I can see)

I think they were incredibly blunt in pointing out what they want their customers to agree to. That they are paying for an ASIC, not the cajoling/cuddling that comes out of customer care.

So if Batch 2 customers are okay with that style of relationship, that is likely what they will be getting.

P.S. The proof is in the pudding. They want it in reviewers hands to point out the selling points.

BFL is not yet at the point where they are putting PCB's together. I THINK Avalons strategy is to keep BFL committed to their current strategy. So that when they commit money and resources to their [BFL] final run...it will be too late for them to uncommit without wasting even more cash.

I do think part of their strategy may be to ride this question mark up until BFL begins building units.

[Clearfly]

This is how i read it:

Batch one flopped, some serious issues have been discovered with the initial chips that rolled out.
They've managed to salvage a few chips and build a few units that sort of work and sent out a couple of prototypes.
They now need money to pay for a respin and are banking that the second run will work and they'll have enough chips to fulfill batches 1 & 2.

[mtminer]

I would also like to expound on one of the more obvious points that I think as Americans we may be missing.

Avalon does not want to do customer service.

They want you to pay, then put the device into your hands and off you go. They don't exactly strive to be "personal". (From what I can see)

I think they were incredibly blunt in pointing out what they want their customers to agree to. That they are paying for an ASIC, not the cajoling/cuddling that comes out of customer care.

So if Batch 2 customers are okay with that style of relationship, that is likely what they will be getting.

If they don't want to do customer service then they shouldn't expect customers. The best small business routinely go over and beyond on customer service. This breeds loyalty and a healthy business.

[kaerf]

when's batch #3 coming out with the shrinking to 55nm? from what i've heard, converting 110m to 55nm is a trivial process (other than the $$). disappointed that power requirements are still so high. curious what bitsyncom thinks BFL's power usage is going to be. yifu seems quite confident that BFL will significantly miss stated power specs.

[PuertoLibre]

I would also like to expound on one of the more obvious points that I think as Americans we may be missing.

Avalon does not want to do customer service.

They want you to pay, then put the device into your hands and off you go. They don't exactly strive to be "personal". (From what I can see)

I think they were incredibly blunt in pointing out what they want their customers to agree to. That they are paying for an ASIC, not the cajoling/cuddling that comes out of customer care.

So if Batch 2 customers are okay with that style of relationship, that is likely what they will be getting.

If they don't want to do customer service then they shouldn't expect customers. The best small business routinely go over and beyond on customer service. This breeds loyalty and a healthy business.

They said this in an interview.

They wanted to sell ASIC chips, not devices originally.

Edit: Their attitude with respect to customer services bleeds through even on the first page.

[dooferorg]

• Bitcoin Only
  
  • No Refunds
    
    • No Proof
      

Wow... No Way ..

It is completely reasonable.

Bitcoin Only - It is easier to accept BTC, and they need to move money fast to pay suppliers

Oh, of course. And these suppliers take Bitcoin, eh? Think about that for a minute.

I've never actually withdrawn from Gox, but it doesn't seem like selling on Gox and withdrawing funds would land in their bank account faster than an international wire. Maybe I'm wrong on that. [/list][/list]

It's quite funny, ironically so, that a purchase of this kind in the very currency we're interested in MAKING with that product is actually quite scary when it comes down to it. Bitcoin is a seller's currency (no chargebacks). No way for a buyer to revoke their funds should things not turn out as promised or expected.

Some people go on about 'I'd just take them to court!' .. good luck with working out a problem via the courts with a seller in another country when the medium of exchange was bitcoin. You'd probably get a 'lol, wut?' response from the court system.

Until recognized internationally as a legal means of currency exchange and a way to prove receipt (blockchain traces will make most people's eyes glaze over) then there will always be this fear of Bitcoin purchases 'going bad'.

[tbcoin]

This is how i read it:

Batch one flopped, some serious issues have been discovered with the initial chips that rolled out.
They've managed to salvage a few chips and build a few units that sort of work and sent out a couple of prototypes.
They now need money to pay for a respin and are banking that the second run will work and they'll have enough chips to fulfill batches 1 & 2.

We've found some bubbles in our QFN package that ...

[Turbor]

Good luck with this sale. I'm a happy Icarus user but the silence last week was nothing but a disappointment to me.

[SgtSpike]

This is how i read it:

Batch one flopped, some serious issues have been discovered with the initial chips that rolled out.
They've managed to salvage a few chips and build a few units that sort of work and sent out a couple of prototypes.
They now need money to pay for a respin and are banking that the second run will work and they'll have enough chips to fulfill batches 1 & 2.

Good call.  I +1 this as the most reasonable explanation.

[rjbtc]

That they are paying for an ASIC, not the cajoling/cuddling that comes out of customer care.

So, they are the Soup Nazi of ASICs?

   "Excuse me, my ASIC didn't come with a power cord"
  "YOU WANT POWER CORD??? 50 BTC!!"
   "...but he got one for free"
  *angrily grabs asic from customer* "NO ASIC FOR YOU!!"

[ewibit]

100+ has been shipped already, 40 some on one route and 60 some on another.

from where do you have this information? is it proof?

[Luno]

Let's have an updated client, not ASIC compatible, to stop this madness.

[iCEBREAKER]

no proof, no order. i am scam intolerant. i have a disorder which does not allow me to send money to strangers without seeing proof.

Next you'll imply that carnival games are rigged...sheesh.

Everybody grab a broom!  It's shenanigans!

[coinnewb]

---------------- edit 2 --------------------
I decided to hang on to them for now: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137534.msg1489062#msg1489062

---------------- edit 1 --------------------
I've had some requests already, so it's not available for now.  Please stop PM me. Thanks.

[Chalkbot]

Batch one flopped, some serious issues have been discovered with the initial chips that rolled out.
They've managed to salvage a few chips and build a few units that sort of work and sent out a couple of prototypes.
They now need money to pay for a respin and are banking that the second run will work and they'll have enough chips to fulfill batches 1 & 2.

This is pretty much exactly what I'm assuming is going on. Either problems meeting specs/poor yields or unexpected expenses wiped out their profit margins on batch 1. Batch 2 HAS to sell out to even keep the doors open.

[Epoch]

I am concerned enough with Avalon that I am willing to part with my 3 Avalons from Batch #1.

I was wondering when this would start. While I respect ngzhang for the great work he has done with Icarus (as I do BFL for their work with their FPGA products), the handling and current state of this 'Avalon situation' gives me pause.

Avalon may well turn out to be legit (I'm not suggesting otherwise), but to any impartial observer there are a lot of red flags not only with the Batch 2 pre-order, but with the status of Batch 1.

Much of this FUD could/can easily be avoided with better communication by the Avalon team.

[fcmatt]

I have an order for 3 Avalons from Batch #1, and it concerns me greatly that they are starting to sell Batch #2 when no one has received anything from Batch #1, let alone has seen any proof that it is working at this point.  Given that a number of things that were promised (e.g., demo) have not been delivered, I would caution anyone thinking about ordering from Batch #2 and to think very carefully before ordering.

If you really want to order from Batch #2 after all the warning that have been posted on this thread, I am concerned enough with Avalon that I am willing to part with my 3 Avalons from Batch #1.  I am not sure how the order could be transferred, but if you still believe in Avalon, you could buy them from Batch #1 if you believe they are legit.  Let me know if anyone is interested.

you cannot even change your shipping address on their website. i know. i tried.
they are not responsive enough to make it happen and they appear not to care.
have fun.

[PuertoLibre]

I have an order for 3 Avalons from Batch #1, and it concerns me greatly that they are starting to sell Batch #2 when no one has received anything from Batch #1, let alone has seen any proof that it is working at this point.  Given that a number of things that were promised (e.g., demo) have not been delivered, I would caution anyone thinking about ordering from Batch #2 and to think very carefully before ordering.

If you really want to order from Batch #2 after all the warning that have been posted on this thread, I am concerned enough with Avalon that I am willing to part with my 3 Avalons from Batch #1.  I am not sure how the order could be transferred, but if you still believe in Avalon, you could buy them from Batch #1 if you believe they are legit.  Let me know if anyone is interested.

you cannot even change your shipping address on their website. i know. i tried.
they are not responsive enough to make it happen and they appear not to care.
have fun.

Yifu has stated that he is not in the USA and that he currently does not have access to the system that controls the order status.

That would explain why he hasn't done any of the record changes (or tickets apparently) requested by dust and others.

[creativex]

I am concerned enough with Avalon that I am willing to part with my 3 Avalons from Batch #1.

I was wondering when this would start. While I respect ngzhang for the great work he has done with Icarus (as I do BFL for their work with their FPGA products), the handling and current state of this 'Avalon situation' gives me pause.

Avalon may well turn out to be legit (I'm not suggesting otherwise), but to any impartial observer there are a lot of red flags not only with the Batch 2 pre-order, but with the status of Batch 1.

Much of this FUD could/can easily be avoided with better communication by the Avalon team.

Sadly, that seems to be a recurring theme with all the ASIC vendors.