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firefop
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February 15, 2013, 04:00:49 AM |
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Excellent post as usual Teal tx.
It may be some while yet before we have real power consumption numbers from ASICMiner or BFL and until then Avalon is at a perceptual disadvantage due to being compared to theoretical numbers. Time will tell I guess.
Avalon is know for having inferior hardware. I wouldn't say badly designed, just older crappier tech. Even assuming that it isn't some sort of scam I don't see how they'll be able to take their small scale operation and grow it into making cutting edge product without taking venture capital. It really doesn't matter if we talk in exact power consumed at the wall or in hypothetical power numbers when it comes to comparing 110nm to smaller silicon the smaller is always going to result much less power consumption. It's just physics. |
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fcmatt
Legendary
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Activity: 2072
Merit: 1001
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February 15, 2013, 04:08:05 AM |
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Excellent post as usual Teal tx.
It may be some while yet before we have real power consumption numbers from ASICMiner or BFL and until then Avalon is at a perceptual disadvantage due to being compared to theoretical numbers. Time will tell I guess.
Avalon is know for having inferior hardware. I wouldn't say badly designed, just older crappier tech. Even assuming that it isn't some sort of scam I don't see how they'll be able to take their small scale operation and grow it into making cutting edge product without taking venture capital. It really doesn't matter if we talk in exact power consumed at the wall or in hypothetical power numbers when it comes to comparing 110nm to smaller silicon the smaller is always going to result much less power consumption. It's just physics. If your goal is to make money crappy asic tech now bitch slaps hot sexy asic tech delivered three months later. But if you just want to participate in securing the network... Sexy asic tech down the road using minimal power is the win. But that is long term thinking. |
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creativex
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February 15, 2013, 04:34:18 AM |
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Excellent post as usual Teal tx.
It may be some while yet before we have real power consumption numbers from ASICMiner or BFL and until then Avalon is at a perceptual disadvantage due to being compared to theoretical numbers. Time will tell I guess.
Avalon is know for having inferior hardware. I wouldn't say badly designed, just older crappier tech. Even assuming that it isn't some sort of scam I don't see how they'll be able to take their small scale operation and grow it into making cutting edge product without taking venture capital. It really doesn't matter if we talk in exact power consumed at the wall or in hypothetical power numbers when it comes to comparing 110nm to smaller silicon the smaller is always going to result much less power consumption. It's just physics. I'm not following. Avalon has shipped the most advanced mining device to ever hash the blockchain. Who are they inferior to? The only other working ASICs belong to ASICMiner and they're built on 130nm tech. Plus they're not shipping. |
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siggy
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February 15, 2013, 03:24:54 PM |
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[I'm not following. Avalon has shipped the most advanced mining device to ever hash the blockchain. Who are they inferior to? The only other working ASICs belong to ASICMiner and they're built on 130nm tech. Plus they're not shipping.
Known Avalons in the wild: 154 Ghash with another _possible_ 66 for a total of 220 Ghash at approximately 10 watts per Ghash Known ASICMiner: 2,000+ Ghash at an estimated 8 watts per Ghash At this point with what is publically known, I'd say yes, Avalon is definately inverior. 110nm vs 130nm is not the end all-be all of who is more advanced. Sigg |
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creativex
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February 15, 2013, 07:31:56 PM |
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Estimated...right. Measured readings vs theory. ...and how do you buy a product from ASICMiner? ...exactly?
I have ASICMiner shares btw, nothing against them, I just don't understand this Avalon is crap...crap.
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siggy
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February 15, 2013, 08:29:47 PM |
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Estimated...right. Measured readings vs theory. ...and how do you buy a product from ASICMiner? ...exactly?
I have ASICMiner shares btw, nothing against them, I just don't understand this Avalon is crap...crap.
I think most of the "Avalon is crap...crap" comes from them screwing the pooch so much on customer service. Like I said in another thread.. that may be the way things are done in China, but they're market isn't just in China.. its global... western expectations of customer service do apply here. I actually tried for over 2 hours to get in an order on batch #2.. At this point with their lack of communication, and ongoing lack of additional units in the wild, I'm actually glad I failed. Getting 2 prototypes out the door does not equate to "we've shipped" Soo.. yes, I DID allow my negative outlook on Avalon the business influence my inferior comment about Avalon the product. Sigg |
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creativex
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February 15, 2013, 09:22:20 PM |
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Estimated...right. Measured readings vs theory. ...and how do you buy a product from ASICMiner? ...exactly?
I have ASICMiner shares btw, nothing against them, I just don't understand this Avalon is crap...crap.
I think most of the "Avalon is crap...crap" comes from them screwing the pooch so much on customer service. Like I said in another thread.. that may be the way things are done in China, but they're market isn't just in China.. its global... western expectations of customer service do apply here. I actually tried for over 2 hours to get in an order on batch #2.. At this point with their lack of communication, and ongoing lack of additional units in the wild, I'm actually glad I failed. Getting 2 prototypes out the door does not equate to "we've shipped" Soo.. yes, I DID allow my negative outlook on Avalon the business influence my inferior comment about Avalon the product. Sigg We're in 100% agreement here. Their customer service has been absolutely horrendous. I too have spent hours moving funds around and trying to order from them, even now I'm not sure I was successful because they have the funds but haven't said word one to confirm my order which was (hopefully) placed almost two weeks ago. |
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Aseras
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February 15, 2013, 09:25:49 PM |
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I find it amusing how everyone is bitching about efficiency when everyone here is still mining on GPU. I'm still running 20GH of GPU and it pulls a good 10 KW at least, not counting cooling. 10KW of ASIC, even a inefficient "first gen prototype" like what we have right now would be greater than the whole bitcoin network as it was pre asic ~13.5 TH.
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Epoch
Legendary
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Activity: 922
Merit: 1003
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February 15, 2013, 09:35:47 PM |
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I think you meant 1.35TH, not 13.5. 10kW will power ~20 Avalons. About 5% of the current network.
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DrG
Legendary
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Activity: 2086
Merit: 1035
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February 15, 2013, 09:37:16 PM |
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I find it amusing how everyone is bitching about efficiency when everyone here is still mining on GPU. I'm still running 20GH of GPU and it pulls a good 10 KW at least, not counting cooling. 10KW of ASIC, even a inefficient "first gen prototype" like what we have right now would be greater than the whole bitcoin network as it was pre asic ~13.5 TH.
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Bitsaurus
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February 16, 2013, 03:30:18 AM |
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The network rate is roughly 25TH right now, where are you getting 13.5 from?
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kaerf
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February 17, 2013, 09:02:57 AM |
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store.avalon-asics.com looks like it's back up:
Status: Sending Confirmations, Preparing for Reopening
5 in stock atm
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vdragon
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February 17, 2013, 09:35:24 AM |
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I might be stupid or something, but the hashing speed on btcguild for the famous user, reminds me more of the botnet then a dedicated machine... Here, I simply had to say it. No machine would oscilate from 1.4TH to 2.6TH in 24 hours. Now you can all say I'm stupid, that theres proff and all, but I simply had to say it.... I was watching it closely, it had 2TH, 1.8TH, 2.1TH, 1.4 TH, 1.6th, 2.7TH, 2.6th, 2th and is at 1.8th now. Its a botnet, which someone runs through a stratum proxy on some host server, and it looks like a big machine. If it walks like a duck, if it squaks like a duck, it is a duck  . Now I am going to cover my head because most of the people are going to hit me on it |
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kaerf
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February 17, 2013, 09:41:47 AM |
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it's not a single machine...they are stress testing their units
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organofcorti
Donator
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Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
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February 17, 2013, 09:44:52 AM |
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<snip> No machine would oscilate from 1.4TH to 2.6TH in 24 hours. Now you can all say I'm stupid, <snip>
This is not just one machine. Think of it as several machines which can be separately turned on and off. |
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RHA
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February 17, 2013, 01:12:01 PM |
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01BTC10
VIP
Hero Member
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Activity: 756
Merit: 503
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February 17, 2013, 02:52:59 PM |
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They sent an email confirming reopening of the store on the 18 of february. 5 units available.  |
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wknight
Legendary
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Activity: 889
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin calls me an Orphan
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February 17, 2013, 03:03:11 PM |
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Make that 4?
4 in stock
It seems you can purchase right now.
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Mining Both Bitcoin and Litecoin.
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Beta-coiner1
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February 17, 2013, 03:10:34 PM |
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Only 1 right now.......but considering if BFL ships this month or even next is the hardware really worth it ? Imo no,unless it was even more effecient.
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01BTC10
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Activity: 756
Merit: 503
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February 17, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
Last edit: February 17, 2013, 03:29:19 PM by 01BTC10 |
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Only 1 right now.......but considering if BFL ships this month or even next is the hardware really worth it ? Imo no,unless it was even more effecient.
Electricity is included with my rent so I don't care about efficiency. I'm thinking about buying a BFL unit but I really don't like their business strategy and PR. They said to be shipping next month for about 6 months now. There is no guarantee that the chips they received are working and the shipping delay for someone who purchase today might still be longer than Avalon. Best strategy is probably to buy both. Don't forget to buy BFL with PayPal in case they don't deliver within 6 months. |
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