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Author Topic: Is Gulden a good investment?  (Read 250179 times)
jwinterm
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December 19, 2016, 08:34:28 PM
 #501

If I had to guess the coin I'm most associated with is Monero, having written and supported a GUI wallet for two years while waiting for the official one to get done, but whatever. Also afaik your mobile wallets and the latest desktop GUI with linking feature is also closed source.

Edit: The guy above asked you directly about the mobile wallets twice and you ignored him, so I'm assuming that's a no. I asked about linking feature a few pages ago, nobody could explain how it works, so I went to look, but it's closed source.
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December 19, 2016, 08:57:43 PM
 #502

Quote from donslip that he deleted for some reason while I was replying:
Quote
Quote from: jwinterm on Today at 08:34:28 PM
Also afaik your mobile wallets and the latest desktop GUI with linking feature is also closed source.
The source code of our latest desktop wallet is right there on our github. Seriously do you ever get tired of being wrong? Maybe spend 2 seconds checking facts before randomly spouting off?

Quote from: jwinterm on Today at 08:34:28 PM
I asked about linking feature a few pages ago, nobody could explain how it works, so I went to look, but it's closed source.
Right, if by "asked" you mean "Repeatedly made completely false statements and assumptions about how it works" and by "closed source" you mean "the code is right there on github"...


Anyway enough playing with obvious trolls for me, I'm going to go do some more constructive work now, thanks for the free entertainment though you really would make a great jester.

Perhaps for the new year you should challenge yourself to go an entire day without making obviously false statements Wink

You're right, desktop one has had source code released. I didn't bother to check. I'm lazy. Sue me, or call me troll, whatever floats your boat. I guess mobile wallets are not open source though since you didn't bring that up?
MaNI
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December 19, 2016, 09:48:25 PM
 #503

Very satisfying answers. Just 2 remaining:
1. Is BIP68, BIP112, and BIP113 activation done through version bits (a la Bitcoin) or ISM (IsSuperMajority a la Litecoin)?
Version bits.



2. Are the ios and android wallet open source? If not, why? I can't seem to find any recent commits on Github? But that could be me
We no longer release the source for mobile wallets for now, the source for desktop wallets will continue to remain on Github as it has always been.

I'm personally a huge fan of open source in my private capacity and generally default to wanting to open source everything - but nothing is ever the right solution in all circumstances, it is wrong to just do things without first thinking about them, in this case after careful consideration we have realised that applying open source here just for the sake of it would not be the correct thing to do.

Reasons are multiple, I'm not going to go into all the details but in short we don't feel that anyone compiles mobile wallets anyway or that any of our actual mobile users are ever going to read the source code and that basically there is very little benefit to any of our mobile users from the code being open.
At the same time having this code open helps to prop up this toxic scam system that is the current "crypto community" and we don't want to be a part of that, as you can see (if you read a few posts above this, or anywhere in the last few pages of this topic) we endure constant attacks from various people within this toxic community whose only interest is short term profit at any cost and who have no interest in actually seeing Crypto become something that is adopted by the mainstream. While we aren't of course actively going to do anything against these coins we don't want to go out of our way to make it easy for them to copy us either.

This is of course quite possibly a temporary situation, we feel that in the next few years the crypto market is going to mature greatly, with coins like us leading the way with proper development the room for scammers to operate in is going to rapidly dry up, and at that point we might be quite happy to change our minds.
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December 19, 2016, 10:05:43 PM
Last edit: December 19, 2016, 10:41:25 PM by volyova
 #504

Very satisfying answers. Just 2 remaining:
1. Is BIP68, BIP112, and BIP113 activation done through version bits (a la Bitcoin) or ISM (IsSuperMajority a la Litecoin)?
Version bits.



2. Are the ios and android wallet open source? If not, why? I can't seem to find any recent commits on Github? But that could be me
We no longer release the source for mobile wallets for now, the source for desktop wallets will continue to remain on Github as it has always been.

I'm personally a huge fan of open source in my private capacity and generally default to wanting to open source everything - but nothing is ever the right solution in all circumstances, it is wrong to just do things without first thinking about them, in this case after careful consideration we have realised that applying open source here just for the sake of it would not be the correct thing to do.

Reasons are multiple, I'm not going to go into all the details but in short we don't feel that anyone compiles mobile wallets anyway or that any of our actual mobile users are ever going to read the source code and that basically there is very little benefit to any of our mobile users from the code being open.
At the same time having this code open helps to prop up this toxic scam system that is the current "crypto community" and we don't want to be a part of that, as you can see (if you read a few posts above this, or anywhere in the last few pages of this topic) we endure constant attacks from various people within this toxic community whose only interest is short term profit at any cost and who have no interest in actually seeing Crypto become something that is adopted by the mainstream. While we aren't of course actively going to do anything against these coins we don't want to go out of our way to make it easy for them to copy us either.

This is of course quite possibly a temporary situation, we feel that in the next few years the crypto market is going to mature greatly, with coins like us leading the way with proper development the room for scammers to operate in is going to rapidly dry up, and at that point we might be quite happy to change our minds.
+1 Very sensible and smart imo.
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December 20, 2016, 04:51:33 AM
 #505

Very satisfying answers. Just 2 remaining:
1. Is BIP68, BIP112, and BIP113 activation done through version bits (a la Bitcoin) or ISM (IsSuperMajority a la Litecoin)?
Version bits.



2. Are the ios and android wallet open source? If not, why? I can't seem to find any recent commits on Github? But that could be me
We no longer release the source for mobile wallets for now, the source for desktop wallets will continue to remain on Github as it has always been.

I'm personally a huge fan of open source in my private capacity and generally default to wanting to open source everything - but nothing is ever the right solution in all circumstances, it is wrong to just do things without first thinking about them, in this case after careful consideration we have realised that applying open source here just for the sake of it would not be the correct thing to do.

Reasons are multiple, I'm not going to go into all the details but in short we don't feel that anyone compiles mobile wallets anyway or that any of our actual mobile users are ever going to read the source code and that basically there is very little benefit to any of our mobile users from the code being open.
At the same time having this code open helps to prop up this toxic scam system that is the current "crypto community" and we don't want to be a part of that, as you can see (if you read a few posts above this, or anywhere in the last few pages of this topic) we endure constant attacks from various people within this toxic community whose only interest is short term profit at any cost and who have no interest in actually seeing Crypto become something that is adopted by the mainstream. While we aren't of course actively going to do anything against these coins we don't want to go out of our way to make it easy for them to copy us either.

This is of course quite possibly a temporary situation, we feel that in the next few years the crypto market is going to mature greatly, with coins like us leading the way with proper development the room for scammers to operate in is going to rapidly dry up, and at that point we might be quite happy to change our minds.

You are a legend MaNI and Gulden deserves all the success it gets. Your mind is in the right place mate.
TamiLee
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December 20, 2016, 07:09:54 AM
 #506

Yet the two coins you are most widely know to be associated with vary from bitcoin only by about a few thousand lines of code (probably an overestimate), and have stock bitcoin wallets, while the latest Gulden release alone (ignoring all previous releases) introduces over 25000 lines of new unique code (for just the desktop wallet and ignoring the 0.13 merge on top of that) and has a completely different interface.
Perhaps the word 'clone' means something different in your world?


25000 lines of new code in 4 months excluding 0.13 code base merge and Mobile wallets?  Shocked Shocked Shocked

I said before Gulden in 2017 is going to pull ahead of the rest of the alts like it's day and night. People still worshipping coins that have done nothing will be left with their pants down if this pace is kept up in 2017. 26th on coinmarketcap yet is the best coin on the market, what is not to love?
Dashltc
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December 20, 2016, 08:33:42 AM
 #507

Yet the two coins you are most widely know to be associated with vary from bitcoin only by about a few thousand lines of code (probably an overestimate), and have stock bitcoin wallets, while the latest Gulden release alone (ignoring all previous releases) introduces over 25000 lines of new unique code (for just the desktop wallet and ignoring the 0.13 merge on top of that) and has a completely different interface.
Perhaps the word 'clone' means something different in your world?


25000 lines of new code in 4 months excluding 0.13 code base merge and Mobile wallets?  Shocked Shocked Shocked

I said before Gulden in 2017 is going to pull ahead of the rest of the alts like it's day and night. People still worshipping coins that have done nothing will be left with their pants down if this pace is kept up in 2017. 26th on coinmarketcap yet is the best coin on the market, what is not to love?

Agree Tamilee, traders are manipulating the price downwards because they want more coins themselves. Best we also benefit at the same time while others dump from the fear factor.
SuperOrca
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December 20, 2016, 10:12:19 AM
 #508

Yet the two coins you are most widely know to be associated with vary from bitcoin only by about a few thousand lines of code (probably an overestimate), and have stock bitcoin wallets, while the latest Gulden release alone (ignoring all previous releases) introduces over 25000 lines of new unique code (for just the desktop wallet and ignoring the 0.13 merge on top of that) and has a completely different interface.
Perhaps the word 'clone' means something different in your world?


25000 lines of new code in 4 months excluding 0.13 code base merge and Mobile wallets?  Shocked Shocked Shocked

I said before Gulden in 2017 is going to pull ahead of the rest of the alts like it's day and night. People still worshipping coins that have done nothing will be left with their pants down if this pace is kept up in 2017. 26th on coinmarketcap yet is the best coin on the market, what is not to love?

Agree Tamilee, traders are manipulating the price downwards because they want more coins themselves. Best we also benefit at the same time while others dump from the fear factor.

The price has to go down to make a pump worth it for PRIME, this will bring more attention to the coin, traders help create lots of attention for good projects. This coin would not have been pumped if there was no 1.6.0 project but after the project is finished you know there is going to be a large gap before next update and this is the time to dump and buy lower. We almost at the bottom for Gulden.
KenChanYu
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December 20, 2016, 01:02:06 PM
 #509

Its a great investment if you wait for it to come back down in price first. Its got a long ways to go.

yes, extra blocks is going to kill market , why didn't team reduce reward?

This is good, no marketing and extra coins crushing the market daily. Dev oversight equal cheap coins for us traders.

It's simple economics, more supply = less value , the devs must reduce reward next update by 25 per block. Innovation traders don't care for.
Myraidcoins
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December 20, 2016, 02:22:23 PM
 #510

Its a great investment if you wait for it to come back down in price first. Its got a long ways to go.

yes, extra blocks is going to kill market , why didn't team reduce reward?

This is good, no marketing and extra coins crushing the market daily. Dev oversight equal cheap coins for us traders.

It's simple economics, more supply = less value , the devs must reduce reward next update by 25 per block. Innovation traders don't care for.

I disagree, traders need innovation to make moves on coins, if the coin is not doing anything or promising anything then there is no reason to pump. Scam coins do this effectively by over promising and never delivering because they know if the delivery is real or not the the pump will still take place. With Gulden , MaNI and his team are delivering but the dump still occurs, this is why coin creators don't innovate but only promise too and then create a new coin promising new things after the dump takes place, it's much less work to talk then do and the results are the same.

kwaasteniet
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December 20, 2016, 03:38:45 PM
 #511

Its a great investment if you wait for it to come back down in price first. Its got a long ways to go.

yes, extra blocks is going to kill market , why didn't team reduce reward?

This is good, no marketing and extra coins crushing the market daily. Dev oversight equal cheap coins for us traders.

It's simple economics, more supply = less value , the devs must reduce reward next update by 25 per block. Innovation traders don't care for.

Where and when got you the idea that there are more blocks, more coins or extra supply? The blockreward or time isn't changed
your idiots take the nonsens a non-informed morron for the truth? Tongue 
volyova
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December 20, 2016, 04:05:38 PM
 #512

So, where is the bottom?
donnatello
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December 20, 2016, 04:49:31 PM
Last edit: December 20, 2016, 05:16:31 PM by donnatello
 #513


I disagree, traders need innovation to make moves on coins, if the coin is not doing anything or promising anything then there is no reason to pump. Scam coins do this effectively by over promising and never delivering because they know if the delivery is real or not the the pump will still take place. With Gulden , MaNI and his team are delivering but the dump still occurs, this is why coin creators don't innovate but only promise too and then create a new coin promising new things after the dump takes place, it's much less work to talk then do and the results are the same.



Technical superiority goes hand in hand with sensitive marketing. Otherwise it takes a bit longer to reach the full potential.
disconnectme
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December 20, 2016, 06:26:08 PM
 #514

This has proven not to be a good investment get a typical pump and dump story. The price has been crashing for some weeks


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Danslip
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December 20, 2016, 06:27:01 PM
 #515


I disagree, traders need innovation to make moves on coins, if the coin is not doing anything or promising anything then there is no reason to pump. Scam coins do this effectively by over promising and never delivering because they know if the delivery is real or not the the pump will still take place. With Gulden , MaNI and his team are delivering but the dump still occurs, this is why coin creators don't innovate but only promise too and then create a new coin promising new things after the dump takes place, it's much less work to talk then do and the results are the same.



Technical superiority goes hand in hand with sensitive marketing. Otherwise it takes a bit longer to reach the full potential.

Under 2k I start buying in.

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December 20, 2016, 06:45:24 PM
 #516


I disagree, traders need innovation to make moves on coins, if the coin is not doing anything or promising anything then there is no reason to pump. Scam coins do this effectively by over promising and never delivering because they know if the delivery is real or not the the pump will still take place. With Gulden , MaNI and his team are delivering but the dump still occurs, this is why coin creators don't innovate but only promise too and then create a new coin promising new things after the dump takes place, it's much less work to talk then do and the results are the same.



Technical superiority goes hand in hand with sensitive marketing. Otherwise it takes a bit longer to reach the full potential.

This coin will become a play thing for whales in 2017 as it has the most potential of all coins, don't expect a stable price but more wild movements with all the projects lined up on the roadmap.
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December 20, 2016, 09:31:38 PM
 #517

Very satisfying answers. Just 2 remaining:
1. Is BIP68, BIP112, and BIP113 activation done through version bits (a la Bitcoin) or ISM (IsSuperMajority a la Litecoin)?
Version bits.



2. Are the ios and android wallet open source? If not, why? I can't seem to find any recent commits on Github? But that could be me
We no longer release the source for mobile wallets for now, the source for desktop wallets will continue to remain on Github as it has always been.

I'm personally a huge fan of open source in my private capacity and generally default to wanting to open source everything - but nothing is ever the right solution in all circumstances, it is wrong to just do things without first thinking about them, in this case after careful consideration we have realised that applying open source here just for the sake of it would not be the correct thing to do.

Reasons are multiple, I'm not going to go into all the details but in short we don't feel that anyone compiles mobile wallets anyway or that any of our actual mobile users are ever going to read the source code and that basically there is very little benefit to any of our mobile users from the code being open.
At the same time having this code open helps to prop up this toxic scam system that is the current "crypto community" and we don't want to be a part of that, as you can see (if you read a few posts above this, or anywhere in the last few pages of this topic) we endure constant attacks from various people within this toxic community whose only interest is short term profit at any cost and who have no interest in actually seeing Crypto become something that is adopted by the mainstream. While we aren't of course actively going to do anything against these coins we don't want to go out of our way to make it easy for them to copy us either.

This is of course quite possibly a temporary situation, we feel that in the next few years the crypto market is going to mature greatly, with coins like us leading the way with proper development the room for scammers to operate in is going to rapidly dry up, and at that point we might be quite happy to change our minds.

Great reply. Very transparant. I like it!

Some more questions if you dont mind (for the sake of transparancy):

1. Who has the private keys of the premine? Is it only Rijk or also you/Waterloodown? I never expect somebody to dump the premine but god forbids if it happends then we know who had the private keys. (no need for real names just nicknames is enough).
2. Who are in the dev team that can actually code? Buerra, you and C_E_D? Not sure if Rijk and waterloodown can code (i believe Rijk is the visionary/graphic designer and waterloodown is like a community manager).
3. Gulden has been marketed as a dutch coin with dutch roots. I heared that Rijk is dutch and a co founder. What happend to the other dutch co founder? Was he also the original developer of Gulden? Why did he leave? Did he wanted to scam and exit? How is he related to Rijk and does Rijk still have contact with him?
4. Are you, C_E_D and waterloodown dutch by any chance? Just curious how dutch this coin really is.
5. What is going on with www.reddit.com/r/gulden ? If i go there i am forwarded to the litecoin subreddit. What am i doing wrong?
6. Some digibyte friends of mine are saying that Gulden asked Digibyte help for development and consulted Jared for multialgo. Is this fud? What is the truth? They say that Gulden were begging for developers a time ago and now Gulden is being hypocrite by saying that Gulden will not help others with development. If it is true, why would you consult a con man as you say?
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December 20, 2016, 10:32:00 PM
Last edit: December 20, 2016, 11:00:09 PM by MaNI
 #518

1. Who has the private keys of the premine? Is it only Rijk or also you/Waterloodown? I never expect somebody to dump the premine but god forbids if it happends then we know who had the private keys. (no need for real names just nicknames is enough).
All of our full real identities are public knowledge, pretty much the entire community knows or has been exposed to them at some point in time or another - my name for example is sprinkled all over our source code.
I don't comment on premine details.
I will say that if it were going to be dumped it would probably have already happened, it would have been dumped a few months ago when the price was high, and we would all have then run away to an island somewhere. I don't think the behaviour of anyone involved is suspicious at all and I think that should be enough for people, if it isn't then I'm afraid there is nothing I can do to change that Smiley

2. Who are in the dev team that can actually code? Buerra, you and C_E_D? Not sure if Rijk and waterloodown can code (i believe Rijk is the visionary/graphic designer and waterloodown is like a community manager).
Buerra is not part of the dev team he is part of Nocks, Nocks is a seperate company. The majority (almost all) of the code for the core wallets is currently done by myself, but there is no reason that this might not change in future, c_e_d assists with specific parts of the code, especially delta. Rijk and Waterloodown are roughly as you describe, though they do a lot more than you might think, there is a lot of decision making even at the code level that I involve them with for instance, and testing and so on and so forth - I certainly could not do what I do alone without the rest of the teams help. But yes we are not a massive team at this point in time.

3. Gulden has been marketed as a dutch coin with dutch roots. I heared that Rijk is dutch and a co founder. What happend to the other dutch co founder? Was he also the original developer of Gulden? Why did he leave? Did he wanted to scam and exit? How is he related to Rijk and does Rijk still have contact with him?
That is a lot of questions, you'll have to ask the people directly involved, but in short no not a scam or anything like that, sometimes people just move on... (There can be many reasons for this - personal commitments, life changing events, marriage, kids, death, illness)

4. Are you, C_E_D and waterloodown dutch by any chance? Just curious how dutch this coin really is.
No I 'm not Dutch, but that does not make the coin not Dutch, the majority of the community is Dutch, if you were to come onto the Gulden slack (which now has around 2000 people on, mostly talking in Dutch) perhaps you would understand this better. A good dev team is of course super important but a coin is more than this, without the great community we have we could never have made the 1.6.0 release a reality.
To put it slightly differently using an example, if 2000 Dutch people get together, raise funds and hire someone from another country to work on something, does the fact that the person they have hired is not Dutch suddenly make the entire affair not Dutch? Or if a Dutch company hires an offshore programmer is their product now not Dutch? I do not think having a non-dutch programmer on the team really affects the identity of the coin in any way.

5. What is going on with www.reddit.com/r/gulden ? If i go there i am forwarded to the litecoin subreddit. What am i doing wrong?
We did not have a very active reddit community in the past, and at some point (roughly 6-7 months ago) through a sequence of unfortunate events, a 'reddit request' to take over an 'inactive' reddit was granted - (without any warning) to a moderator from Litecoin who took it upon himself to steal our sub and is now pointing it at the litecoin one.
I'm not a huge reddit user myself so I don't fully understand why this was allowed, I think some loophole was abused (possibly to do with the fact that my account has very little karma and that the original mod decided to make me the only mod without me realising this.
Anyway, the Litecoin people seem intent on being childish and clinging onto it so not really much we can do for now, I don't know why they would behave in such a way (very childish), but I can only guess they must be really scared or desperate or something to have to do these sorts of things?

6. Some digibyte friends of mine are saying that Gulden asked Digibyte help for development and consulted Jared for multialgo. Is this fud? What is the truth? They say that Gulden were begging for developers a time ago and now Gulden is being hypocrite by saying that Gulden will not help others with development. If it is true, why would you consult a con man as you say?
At the time I joined Gulden there was a lot of external pressure (I believe a lot of it probably came from trolls) on the dev team to adopt 'multi algo' as a solution (or at least the community thought it was a solution) to an issue Gulden was facing with lots of long block times, at some point in time (apparently) they met with Jared to discuss how it works, I can't comment on any of that as it was before I joined, there was a lot of politics and in fighting in the community at that time so it was a rather complicated situation - you'd have to research historical threads of the coin yourself if you really want to know more I guess.

I can only comment from my perspective as I am not worried about the past but only focused on the future.
From my perspective one of the first things I did upon joining Gulden was to analyse both 'multi algo' as well as various other possible solutions, and after looking in depth at 'multi algo' I had no choice but to reject it due to being what I can ultimately only describe as a flawed and inadequate 'solution', and to instead recommend a completely different path forward, one that we are still following and that I think is more and more starting to be seen by others to have been a good decision.

I personally have never ever had any dealings with Jared or Digibyte, other than a somewhat constant factor of their trolls harassing us and/or making ridiculous suggestions that I should work for them, and some attempts by some of their 'prominent' community members to hire me. I've certainly never consulted them, though I have assessed their code.

Why the other/previous team members 'consulted' him, well I can only speculate, but from what I understand the community asked them to do so, so they did it. What they knew then (In terms of Digibyte as well as various other things including block chains)  is substantially different from what they know now, I doubt they would do it now - but I can't speak for anyone else.

In short, I really don't think that other team members having had brief discussions with someone in the past has anything to do with my opinion in the present, and I stand by my opinion.
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December 21, 2016, 02:32:04 AM
 #519

I guess I just like triggering overly sensitive developers with innocuous questions Tongue

Really I own lots of different coins and follow some others, so I browse the altcoin sections occasionally, then once I make a comment that thread will keep popping up on site unread replies, so I will check it once in a while.

This isn't your Ann thread anyway - the topic was a question. Shouldn't people be free to come in here and put forth arguments both in favor and opposed without being immediately attacked as a troll or shill? Personally I wouldn't buy gulden or characterize it as a good "investment" because:

 - I very rarely would touch any coin with a premine (I think one exception is decred where I got most of what I hold from airdrop), but especially one that is basically a Bitcoin clone.

 - I don't use closed source software for anything cryptocurrency related.

 - I'm not Dutch (I think it was a mistake to attempt decentralized country coins).

 - I think it was a bit misleading to launch with a premine that was mostly supposed to be for an airdrop to Dutch people then being like, "maybe we'll just keep this for development fund..."

If it bothers you so much to see me ask a question or give my opinion maybe you should request OP to make thread self-moderated and change the title to "Reasons you should buy gulden".

Have a holly jolly Xmas Smiley

Bitcoin has a premine and I bet you touch that. Does it bother you that Satoshi has a million coins?

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December 21, 2016, 04:54:40 AM
 #520

Don't be a knucklehead - Bitcoin doesn't have a premine.
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