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Author Topic: Whitelist Requests (Want out of here?)  (Read 448329 times)
smtp
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December 27, 2012, 06:28:04 PM
 #3301

Here is my posting/proposal to reason my request -- sorry for the bad style. :-/



Hi

The annoying huge real time to build up the blkindex.dat with the bitcoin-client is the trigger why I finally wrote this posting.
Sadly nowhere is explained neither which exact structure blkindex.dat has, nor
why we need this Berkley-DB-B-tree structure at all and it is extremly slow in
rebuild/updating in our case of bitcoin client.
Indeed I needed more than 23 h to build it from scratch with my 2 GHz Athlon-64 and 4 GB Ram. :-( and almost always the real time is spent by wait-for IO, not
CPU or network-band with limited if you want to catch up to the current blockchain.
Looking at the new bitcoin-client 0.7.99 test-release it looks still similar
slow, see benchmarks at [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129861.0].
Thus I totaly agree in "We need to stabilize 0.8 as quickly as is reasonably possible, because people are beginning to avoid 0.7.x due to slowness, choosing instead less secure but faster bitcoin clients." stated by jgarzik in this thread.

I wonder why we need all this overhead-full and version-depending DB-stuff for
using/manipulating the blockchain in the bitcoin client. :-/

Here is an alternative for "blkindex.dat":

Hold the blockchain-indexing data always in memory and organize, it as follows:
Let there be TA-many transactions and DEP-many deposits (response-scripts/out-channels) in all the (valid) blocks in the blockchain.

On 2012-12-27 11:45 UTC we had #blocks= 213849, #TA =  10388275, #DEP = 24173524

The needed data structure consists of 2 tables and 1 heap:

1) A hashtable: we have TA many transactions and this number is steadily growing.
It is not decisive but I choose a hashtable which can store up to 2^26 many
 entries (so current fill-factor is < 1/6). Each transaction gets a 4 byte index, e.g.
made up of the lowest 4 bytes of a transaction-hash (or made by xoring the 32 bytes into 4
bytes) anded with 2^26-1 , ==> this is a 2^28 byte sized table, which each entry is either 0 or
indexs a further table, called transaction table for simplicity.

2) The transaction table has #TA*(32+2+8) bytes = #TA*42 bytes.
   Each entry of this transaction table holds ITS 256 bit doubled SHA-hashed hash = 32 bytes (back-check to the hashtable for index-collision-detection), a 2 byte counter (could be also 4 byte) for number of deposits and an 8-byte pointer into a heap for a specific transaction of a block of the blockchain.

3) the heap of deposit addresses and deposit values has size #DEP*(2*8+8) bytes
   Here the explicit value in Satoshis, the address of the script, and the
   address of the redeemed script is stored (null address if the deposit is
  still availible).
  The value of the deposits are pure luxury and could be saved. This value could
  also be goten from the address of the script decreased by 8. But I liked to
  store this value explicitly (in 8 bytes) and not looked it up each time in the
  blockchain.

The size of these 3 structures sum up to about 1285 Mbytes compared to 1481 Mbytes of the current blkindex.dat. The heap and the transaction table grows simply
by appending new data if new blocks are mined and published.
Searching for a transaction given by its 256-bit hashindex happens in constant time (depends only on the fill-factor of the hashtable) -- in contrast any B-tree needs log_2(#TA). Adding a new transaction with its deposits is of course proportional to the number of deposits involved.

Thus the real time needed to access a deposit is constant. There are the rare
events when we want to delete a orphan block and thus removing transactions with their deposits from our data structure. In this case, the needed real time is
at most proportional to the age of the orphan block respectively number of blocks in the part of the forked chain measured in number of deposits containing in the end part of the forked chain.
The average real-time behavior should be at least as fast as the old
"blkindex.dat"-logic, but probably much faster because we need no log_2-searching factor from the B-trees involved.

I implemented this logic/data structure already as part of a blockchain parser
and a total build up of this new "block-index structure" needed 242 sec real
time and 71 sec CPU-time - most time was spend in reading the blockchain from
disc. BTW: I did not optimize the source-code, already the 2nd program version
needs only these 4 minutes. I recall: Compared to more than 23 hours real time of the
bitcoin-client 0.7.1 needed to rebuild the blkindex.dat via "-loadblock" options. :-(

So the only draw back I currently see is a need of 1.28 GB Ram compared to at most 1/5-th (or less?) Ram in the bitcoin-client + 1.5 GB of blkindex.dat disc-space.
Omitting the Satoshi value of each deposit in the data structure and using only
a 2^25 sized hashtable (currently means a factor of 3.23 of total to used entries)
would result in 0.96 (0.13+0.44+0.39) GB Ram. Of course this data structure could be stored also on disk to avoid rebuilding each time the client starts.

The win is a real-time factor decrease of 350 -- and in absolute units from
many, many hours to a few minutes when building up the index data from scratch
in a bitcoin-client or whatever.  :-)

I like to hear your thoughts/critics.

BTW: If this is not too much nonsense perhaps a member could make a pointer to this posting in the thread/topic "Experimental pre-0.8 builds for testing" in the "Development & Technical Discussion"-board which is forbidden for newbies like me.

Thanks,
smtp

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December 27, 2012, 08:35:36 PM
 #3302

I'd like out, been mining bitcoins since before D-Day (Drop Day from 50btc reward to 25btc reward) on our boy slush's mining pool.  I don't know how the whole infrastructure works for bitcoins, other than it's p2p encrypted virtual currency; still haven't googled why there are typically 8 servers my btc client connects to but meh. 

I can spout a bunch of googled technobable from the bitcoin wiki in here or you can just take me out of newbie land. Actually this may be my fourth post so maybe I met the criteria already Smiley

Anyway, awkward!
Miles
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December 28, 2012, 04:01:11 AM
 #3303

Hello I have completed my 5 posts, and have been online for 5 hours 54 minutes (actually have been a member for over a year now). Can I please upgrade so I can post normally.
Arrowhead92
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December 28, 2012, 04:38:17 AM
 #3304

I would like to be whitelisted as I am in need to sell some devices asap.
querior
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December 28, 2012, 05:10:08 PM
 #3305

Please whitelist me. I have a pending topic/question that I'd love to have moved to Technical Support.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133704.msg1423644

I'm just concerned it might not get enough eyeballs in Newbies.

Thanks for your time.
q

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December 28, 2012, 07:01:47 PM
 #3306

Hello,

I want to be whitelisted because i've already minned bitcoins and namecoins, i know how to use the bitcoin and namecoin clients and the guiminer and poclbm miners.
I m not interested in post on the newbie forum because I cant learn anything else as a newbie and i cant post on the spanish forum as a newbie.

Bitcoin: 19R9LyJUeQqgZYkwMvpnJn2orm7rxBMMQK
Namecoin: NBbtK3bXwEjmyxDudoLsDswJPf8He87Hki
arnuschky
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December 28, 2012, 07:12:06 PM
 #3307

Hey,

we're a group of researchers currently looking into Bitcoin from two angles: technologically, and economically (researchers as in University-level research).

We have been reading in this forum for 1-2 months now, and are well past the newbie state. We'd like to have full access so that we can ask specific questions in the appropriate sub-forums.

Thank you,
Arnuschky
John (John K.)
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December 29, 2012, 03:23:49 AM
 #3308

Hi

Thanks to a personal email to a developper because after 20-30 mintes of lurcking around and see neither a repüly nor a new-topic button, his reply-email
 pointed me to the fact/politics of this newbie posting restriction.
THIS should be made clearly for each new registered account and then also be indicated which boards (or topics) are newbie postable, IMHO!

Greetings
smtp
+1 if you hit the "yes I read it" button during the registration without actually reading any of it. Smiley

Had to go back to understand what was wrong...

Hello,

I want to be whitelisted because i've already minned bitcoins and namecoins, i know how to use the bitcoin and namecoin clients and the guiminer and poclbm miners.
I m not interested in post on the newbie forum because I cant learn anything else as a newbie and i cant post on the spanish forum as a newbie.
You can post at the Spanish forums already.

nlovric: OK
smtp: Already whitelisted
querior: OK
arnuschky: OK

My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong
Escrow service is available on a case by case basis! (PM Me to verify I'm the escrow!)

pizzaman1337
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December 29, 2012, 10:38:40 PM
 #3309

Hello!

I've been a bitcoin user for a little while now, but I've only lurked on the forums, without an account.

I've been having a problem with campbx.com and I found a relevant thread I'd like to post in about it. This is that thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133738.0

I don't really have anything to post about in the newbie area, the 5 post minimum seems to encourage spam. If I could be whitelisted, that would be great!

Thanks
WalrusBaller
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December 30, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
 #3310

i have been using bitcoin for 8 months. I have spread the bitcoin idea to many people in real life. I mostly use them for poker/casino stuff. i first came to bitcointalk.org to see why my wallet was loading so slow. that was one of many visits i made for information.I am working on a project that i believe will continue the growth of users in the bitcoin community.
i was hoping to create some buzz on this site, as well

thanks

WalrusBaller

“Well, well, well, well. If it isn't fat, stinking billygoat Billy-Boy in poison. How art thou, thy globby bottle of cheap, stinking chip-oil? Come and get one in the yarbles, if you have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou.”
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December 30, 2012, 05:37:38 PM
 #3311

Get me out'a here!

Although I have only just started mining, I have known about bitcoin for quite some time.

I have services to sell.

I plan to sell lessons and private lessons in network security and wireless penetration. WEP/WPA/WPA2 Keys were secure yesterday, not today.

Beginner to Intermediate lessons.
After my overseas holiday I will be opening up advanced lessons.

I will be using bitcoin only as payments for the online lessons.

Lessons will take place in my own private freenode rooms. -SSL is advised.

All legal I can guarantee. I will also be teaching the laws associated with network securi

Bitcoin Fanatic!
Pezikrypt
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December 31, 2012, 02:16:48 AM
 #3312

My name is Pezikrypt, and I am requesting my name to be put on the Whitelist. I don't want to be stuck in the Newbie section for very long.

I've introduced myself here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133986.0

Carried a conversation with 3 other individuals regarding BitCoin and rigs. We came to the conclusion that I need to invest in a ASIC device to continue mining when they are actually released (they being the ASIC devices).

I've also wrote a review over SwiftBitcoins, whose thread can be found here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134013.0

I pointed out his thread's link was incorrect, and we got it fixed. I also tried his service, and it was nice. Could be nicer, but my review it posted on the first page, just have to scroll down a little bit.

Anything else about myself can be found in my thread [Newbie] Mining for BTCitcoin.

Donations -> 1LXxJhTnVbsS8VftDv4sdnWfhx3icojPUM
iorrus
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December 31, 2012, 02:50:34 AM
 #3313

Hi I'd like to be put on the whitelist as I'd like to make a bid for Freicoins in exchange for bitcoins on the thread in the alternative cryptocurrencies forum.
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December 31, 2012, 11:09:43 AM
 #3314

I would like to be whitelisted because I recently changed accounts after having quite a few posts and a few days online and I would like to participate in forums outside of the newbie one. Thank you!

Get free bitcoins with bitcrate!: http://goo.gl/vADbL

Donations ---> 13L1RcdLkvMNbud6rxd6jzc8MgQsB44Fdo
Seth Otterstad
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December 31, 2012, 06:52:41 PM
 #3315

I am working on the bitcoin100 charity with Phinnaeus Gage.  Please whitelist me.

Buy up to 1k worth of bitcoin with a credit card      SealsWithClubs is the largest bitcoin poker room     Get 20% off everything on Amazon with purse.io      
Seth Otterstad's Blog          @SethOtterstad on twitter          Seth on google+
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December 31, 2012, 07:09:00 PM
 #3316

I am working on the bitcoin100 charity with Phinnaeus Gage.  Please whitelist me.

You're already whitelisted.

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December 31, 2012, 08:20:04 PM
 #3317

I would like to make input to the custom FPGA mining discussions, I am considering making a massively parallel fpga stack.

I have only just joined this forum, but I have been on other bitcoin forums, and have been using bitcoin for 2 years now. mined in pools for a bit, sold some on ebay.

I understand the maths behind bitcoin fairly well, and will provide interesting input to the fpga threads.

Interpeer - the p2p world-wide-web
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January 01, 2013, 08:19:05 AM
 #3318

Dear Bitcoin Forum,

I think I'm ready to interact with the rest of the Bitcoin Forum beyond the Newbie area. I've been researching Bitcoin for several months nows and I promise not to ask beginner type questions. I've also got a good handle on the community terminology and best practices.

Thanks. I look forward to getting more deeply involved as a merchant planning to accept Bitcoin startin in March.

Best Regards,

-DJohnston

“The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.” ― Frédéric Bastiat
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January 01, 2013, 04:32:16 PM
 #3319

Dear Bitcoin Forum,

Essay: Please whitelist me in the newbie forum so I can increase the awareness of bitcoins in the bitcoin community.
By: Tom Peckelpent

Essay number two. The second.
Hello my name is Tom Peckelpent and I am here to day to share with you an essay I've written about why I should be whitelisted in the newbie forum.
All of us reading this at one point in their lifes were newbies on the bitcoin forum. Through magic, or other special means, we eventually posted 5 posts and waited the four hours necessary to get automatically whitelisted. However, some of us also made whitelist requests. I would like to point out that of all the people here now who made whitelist requests and are now no longer newbies, all of them eventually initiated into the forums. I therefore pitch, solicit and tender in good faith that I be whitelisted because that’s how things get done around here.

Even Dr. Obvious would tell you that as long as you keep your nose clean and keep a stiff upper lip, that you too can become a part of this forum. I'd like to stake my little ground of bitcointalk.org territory, and in doing so I would like to engage breeding, civility, and conduct. Tact and usage are not far behind.

I don’t expect this request to be honored simply because I asked. There is a special reason about it. I want to increase the awareness of bitcoins within the bitcoin community. This does not only involve technical discussion but the gainful employment of politesse and punctilio. One must be the model of courtliness and gentility to emmanatise the eschatan. Good grace, habits, and politeness will be what I strive for here. And therefore I should be whitelisted. For this whitelisting to occur, several important steps must be taken. For example, did you know that bitcoins are not fungible? This means that some bitcoins are distinguishable from others and are assigned value contradictorily from others. This is not like how some coins are shiney and as a result are collected by children and small birds. It means that you can trace the transaction history all the way back to the block they were generated in. To prove this, one man recently paid two bitcoins for one bitcoin because someone bought a pizza for over $100,000 in bitcoins a few years ago.
Another thing most of you probably don’t know about bitcoins is that it is a community effort. Each one of us, large or small, fat or weak, has a role to play. If you want to see bitcoins succeed, take part in the community. You could help the development of bitcoins. You could talk to people in your school about bitcoins. As well you can think, there is a way to promote bitcoins. This is your responsibility as a member of this community. Don’t take your role lightly. Everything you say and do is important.

Of course, not all of us want to learn more about bitcoins. Some people don’t like to matriculate the new things. Others feel insecure when someone else tries to explain something to them so they fight back with nasty words. In such a case sometimes the best thing to do is ignore people. This is a very important thing you should consider. If someone is making you angry or you are upset at someone try to understand their point of view, and then ignore them. Once you have conquered their brains by understanding their position you can ignore them, since you will understand that you cannot change their mind. We must strive to realize that we are all human and not everyone always agrees. Sometimes it is best just to let people be to suffer on their own.

In conclusion I would like to request that I be whitelisted because I want to raise the general level of intelligence on these forums. Not everything is always black and white. People’s attention spans have been ruined by 15 second commercials. I remember a time when commercials were two minutes long, and they even had a plot. Forthwith, when someone sees a two minute commercial like the ShamWow guy people laugh and think it’s funny.
This is how we are.

If you enjoyed this essay please donate some bitcoins to me, Mr. Tom Peckelpent, at 16UZ4fCzkpMWWsyQ7aDjYSW5tTT6iDyFov. You may check this address to see how much money this story has generated by visiting blockchain.info/address/16UZ4fCzkpMWWsyQ7aDjYSW5tTT6iDyFov. Thank you and enjoy the New Year.
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January 01, 2013, 04:34:24 PM
 #3320

faceman: OK


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