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Author Topic: Cryptopia Cryptocurrency Platform Services and Development  (Read 168190 times)
RivAngE
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January 21, 2019, 08:54:10 AM
 #2461

I don't think it's an exit because with the listing fees they were charging (on top of the typical trading and withdraw fees) they should be doing well. I guess there's a slight chance that they sow their trading volumes diminishing and though it was now the time to exit with a BANG instead of waiting for a slow death, but the numbers I've found don't support this claim.

Trading volumes can be faked, I mean the exchange can trade against itself to generate a volume if they want, so I checked their website's analysis in comparison to Bittrex and a few other exchanges.
For example this is the link of the comparison against Bittrex: https://www.similarweb.com/website/bittrex.com?competitors=cryptopia.co.nz
As you can see they have a similar trend to Bittrex, though a 37% lower in traffic, Bittrex's traffic is falling a bit faster than Cryptopia's.

Ofcourse the most important factor is the volume and not how many people visit their site or how often they do so; nonetheless site traffic is a good measure as well and with such a big traffic there shouldn't be a reason for an exit.


The two most likely scenarios are a hack from the inside, from one of the employees... or a hack from the outside thanks to their bad infrastructure.
We can't know for sure if their infrastructure was bad, but if the many wallets in maintenance for weeks or even more than a month is a tell.....
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January 21, 2019, 09:47:03 AM
 #2462

i smell coinsmarktes exit scam they make wait and wait till they vaniched  we need something officiel we need something congreet


Of course they will. They were operating so smoothly when everything was still on the right track. If they were vulnerable to hacks then it should have happened when btc was still in $6k or above. But I think the management has a change of mind and want to get out of the game with a lot of money than wait a bit more with no returns.
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January 21, 2019, 10:48:19 AM
 #2463


Before Christmas Cryptpoia sent out a blanket email stating that they had been hacked by 100+ alt coins (via a 51 % attack) and were closing those markets.
<snip>

xtraely and lafu and anyone else claiming to be representatives of Cryptopia definitely aren't because they would have been instructed not to make any statements while a criminal investigation is on going.


Neither Lafu nor myself are employees of Cryptopia. Nor are we authorized to make any statements on their behalf.  There is no official representation of Cryptopia on Bitcointalk as they only consider discord and twitter as official media channels.

As a client of the exchange I probably have more $ at risk than most.

You are correct that their staff have instructed not to make any statements. Most are on leave as the offices are considered a crime scene.


The other incidents last year that you mentioned are different.

A 51% attack by definition is a blockchain based attack. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/1/51-attack.asp It means the blockchain has been exploited and fraudulent transactions by a single attacker have caused the genuinely mined transactions to be discarded through chain re-organisation and orphaned. Some reputable devs have re-embused their customers that have been affected by a blockchain 51% attack.

I explained how such an attack works here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5035336.msg46025953#msg46025953

Quote
In May Bittrex was the victim of a 51% double spend attack on the Bitcoin Gold network. The Bitcoin Gold developers only offered to partially compensate Bittrex for the losses and Bittrex chose to delist Bitcoin Gold instead.

A coin network that allows a 51% attack double spend happen is neither decentralized nor immutable. Both of which are essential for a trustless network.

Many coins have changed from POW to Hybrid, POS or a more complex algo or discontinued because they are unable to prevent attacks on the coin network.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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January 21, 2019, 11:00:51 AM
 #2464


Before Christmas Cryptpoia sent out a blanket email stating that they had been hacked by 100+ alt coins (via a 51 % attack) and were closing those markets.
<snip>

xtraely and lafu and anyone else claiming to be representatives of Cryptopia definitely aren't because they would have been instructed not to make any statements while a criminal investigation is on going.


Neither Lafu nor myself are employees of Cryptopia. Nor are we authorized to make any statements on their behalf.  There is no official representation of Cryptopia on Bitcointalk as they only consider discord and twitter as official media channels.

As a client of the exchange I probably have more $ at risk than most.

You are correct that their staff have instructed not to make any statements. Most are on leave as the offices are considered a crime scene.


The other incidents last year that you mentioned are different.

A 51% attack by definition is a blockchain based attack. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/1/51-attack.asp It means the blockchain has been exploited and fraudulent transactions by a single attacker have caused the genuinely mined transactions to be discarded through chain re-organisation and orphaned. Some reputable devs have re-embused their customers that have been affected by a blockchain 51% attack.

I explained how such an attack works here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5035336.msg46025953#msg46025953

Quote
In May Bittrex was the victim of a 51% double spend attack on the Bitcoin Gold network. The Bitcoin Gold developers only offered to partially compensate Bittrex for the losses and Bittrex chose to delist Bitcoin Gold instead.

A coin network that allows a 51% attack double spend happen is neither decentralized nor immutable. Both of which are essential for a trustless network.

Many coins have changed from POW to Hybrid, POS or a more complex algo or discontinued because they are unable to prevent attacks on the coin network.

In regards to 51% attack please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494708.msg48633011#msg48633011
One day or initial wave of hacking is on devs.
10 days of hacking is on exchange.

Do you agree?

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Timelord2067
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January 21, 2019, 11:25:48 AM
 #2465

@xtraelv Muchly Wow!

As a non-employee you would lecture now about multiple 51% attacks you know nothing about?

Held to ransom is what Cryptopia did to the SexCoin community and to about another 100+ alts coins similarly affected. And as @einsteinium correctly points out, there were multiple attacks over many weeks over many, many alt coins.

You should read up on these posts before you click reply.

.freebitcoin.¦       ___¦¯¯¦¦___
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¦¦¯¯¦¦¦¦¦_     _¦¦¯¦ ¯¯¦¦
¦¦__¦¦¦¯¯¦¦   ¦¦¦¯ __  ¯¦
¦¦¦¦¦¦¦__¦¦¦ ¦¦¦__ ¯¯_  ¦
¦¦¯¯¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦  ¦¯_¦¦
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January 21, 2019, 11:43:14 AM
Last edit: January 21, 2019, 12:37:22 PM by xtraelv
 #2466

@xtraelv Muchly Wow!

As a non-employee you would lecture now about multiple 51% attacks you know nothing about?

Held to ransom is what Cryptopia did to the SexCoin community and to about another 100+ alts coins similarly affected. And as @einsteinium correctly points out, there were multiple attacks over many weeks over many, many alt coins.

You should read up on these posts before you click reply.

How do you propose that an exchange detects 51% attacks ?

(Keep in mind an exchange wallet could contain up to a 100000 public and private keys and take a week or more to sync.) Each coin would have at least 5 or more wallets and I think they list around 400 coins.

Why did the coin devs not alert them about an attack on the blockchain ? Surely something with  $?? millions in marketcap is not left unattended or unchecked for blockchain exploits ?

Bitcoin for instance tracks all the ophaned blocks https://www.blockchain.com/btc/orphaned-blocks

Keep in mind that in a 51% attack the blockchain held balance is being exploited and manipulated - not anything on their exchange servers. Confirmations come from the blockchain nodes.

A 51% double spend attack alters the balance held on the blockchain well after the blockchain has provided the set confirmations that (I'm assuming) have been agreed upon by the coin devs and the exchange as being adequate for that coin. (If the confrimations were inadequate then why didn't the coin devs alert them. If the coin network devs were aware of the attack why did they not alert them - which are both a listing requirement in their TOS).

I am not aware of the full extend or specific details but I spent quite a bit of my spare time analyzing some 51% attacks for the article I wrote.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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January 21, 2019, 12:26:22 PM
 #2467

Can anyone put a list of some of Cryptopia's cold wallets, I want to keep an eye on them

Like BTC wallet and some other more-popular currencies?
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January 21, 2019, 01:37:21 PM
 #2468

How do you propose that an exchange detects 51% attacks ?

Off the top of my head:

- Watch for reorganisation messages in the debug log showing excessive (say 10+ blocks) disconnects.

- Regular audit to check that deposit transactions are still marked as valid and have sufficient confirmations.

- Watch for large negative changes in computed/reported coin supply.
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January 21, 2019, 01:37:47 PM
 #2469

Can anyone put a list of some of Cryptopia's cold wallets, I want to keep an eye on them

Like BTC wallet and some other more-popular currencies?

would be quite interesting, yes
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January 21, 2019, 05:05:06 PM
 #2470

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/vivo/wallet.dws?42143.htm
It's VIVO Cryptopia wallet, possible(not active withdrawals from 14.01.2019)

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January 21, 2019, 05:06:41 PM
 #2471

How do you propose that an exchange detects 51% attacks ?

Off the top of my head:

- Watch for reorganisation messages in the debug log showing excessive (say 10+ blocks) disconnects.

- Regular audit to check that deposit transactions are still marked as valid and have sufficient confirmations.

- Watch for large negative changes in computed/reported coin supply.

Good points, watching the debug.log for consecutive orphans/disconnects is probably best and easiest, I guess in its simplest form that are a few dozen lines of shell/python script.

Or instead of delisting coins out of nowhere, they could have asked them to implement the NLR feature that Ravencoin and Flo recently implemented which limits the number of blocks in a reorg. If they then set the required deposit confirmations twice as high they should be safe against any malicious reorgs.

I believe for many coins that are based on something more recent than Bitcoin core 0.8 this could be as easy as cherrypicking the commits from the Flo or Ravencoin repo. I wildly guess this could even be done unilaterally from an exchange without the support of the respective coins community, in worst case the exchanges wallet would just disagree with the rest of the network but would not credit transactions from later orphanized chains to their customers accounts.



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January 21, 2019, 06:01:16 PM
Last edit: January 22, 2019, 10:09:36 AM by Timelord2067
 #2472

Can anyone put a list of some of Cryptopia's cold wallets, I want to keep an eye on them

Like BTC wallet and some other more-popular currencies?

You mean like this list from two pages back?

Or the thread that it originally came from? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5097916.msg49253290#msg49253290  Roll Eyes

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BITCOIN
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EVENT
BETTING
¦WIN A LAMBO !

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            __________¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦_____
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¯¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦____
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January 21, 2019, 06:16:37 PM
 #2473

Todays message from Cryptopia Discord server:

Quote
Update from Managing Director of Cryptopia Exchange.

The co-founders, shareholders, executive and the entire Cryptopia Team appreciate the support that is being demonstrated here.

We cannot even consider re-opening the exchange while the investigation is in progress.

To even consider doing so would be totally irresponsible of us as it could likely make the way clear for further attacks and even more damage.

Please have patience and faith. We will continue to update everyone as and when we can. Take no notice of the armchair experts.

Can you share the Invite Link of their Discord Server? Its totally unprofessional sending an update on their discord while most people are waiting for an update on their twitter account.
Trust me, you dont need it, it is full of retards who are shocked by the fact that you are asking for any info or update about how / or when could I possible withdraw MY money.

HOW DARE I???
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January 21, 2019, 07:51:19 PM
 #2474

@xtraelv Muchly Wow!

As a non-employee you would lecture now about multiple 51% attacks you know nothing about?

Held to ransom is what Cryptopia did to the SexCoin community and to about another 100+ alts coins similarly affected. And as @einsteinium correctly points out, there were multiple attacks over many weeks over many, many alt coins.

You should read up on these posts before you click reply.

How do you propose that an exchange detects 51% attacks ?

(Keep in mind an exchange wallet could contain up to a 100000 public and private keys and take a week or more to sync.) Each coin would have at least 5 or more wallets and I think they list around 400 coins.

Why did the coin devs not alert them about an attack on the blockchain ? Surely something with  $?? millions in marketcap is not left unattended or unchecked for blockchain exploits ?

Bitcoin for instance tracks all the ophaned blocks https://www.blockchain.com/btc/orphaned-blocks

Keep in mind that in a 51% attack the blockchain held balance is being exploited and manipulated - not anything on their exchange servers. Confirmations come from the blockchain nodes.

A 51% double spend attack alters the balance held on the blockchain well after the blockchain has provided the set confirmations that (I'm assuming) have been agreed upon by the coin devs and the exchange as being adequate for that coin. (If the confrimations were inadequate then why didn't the coin devs alert them. If the coin network devs were aware of the attack why did they not alert them - which are both a listing requirement in their TOS).

I am not aware of the full extend or specific details but I spent quite a bit of my spare time analyzing some 51% attacks for the article I wrote.

Could you give me the link to the article you wrote about the 51% attacks? I would like to understand how this happens. Thank you

head up ! With honesty
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January 21, 2019, 08:01:55 PM
 #2475


Could you give me the link to the article you wrote about the 51% attacks? I would like to understand how this happens. Thank you


Here you can read :  How does a double spend 51% attack work ? Explanation and examples.




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January 21, 2019, 10:18:03 PM
 #2476

Fascinating investigation on the Cryptopia exchange hack - Some overdue transparency into the Cryptopia exchange hack

https://elementus.io/blog/cryptopia-hack-transparency/
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January 22, 2019, 12:07:56 AM
 #2477

Fascinating investigation on the Cryptopia exchange hack - Some overdue transparency into the Cryptopia exchange hack

https://elementus.io/blog/cryptopia-hack-transparency/

very interesting and insightful. Now I can imagine why Ormeus dumped so much (also MGO) even if looks like the hackers still did not dump all on the market.

very, very scaring that cryptopia could have lost access to all his wallets. At this point they can have lost access to bitcoins, too. And they are desperately trying to recover the private keys so they dunno what to say to the public in the meanwhile.

now the only question is: will we recover at least a fraction of our funds? Will cryptopia go bankrupcy? Because, there will be for sure some idiot who will sue cryptopia because obtaining only a fraction of the funds, not knowing that going to court means locking all for years, like mtgox or recently bitgrail.
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January 22, 2019, 12:34:32 AM
 #2478

very, very scaring that cryptopia could have lost access to all his wallets.

It's possible they've lost access to private keys, but it's also possible that they were ordered to shut everything down by Police and were therefore not able to move remaining funds to cold storage. I would imagine that even experienced forensic/cyber criminal investigators assume that shutting down a compromised cryptocurrency server safeguards against further loss... which is very, very wrong.
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January 22, 2019, 01:51:08 AM
 #2479

very, very scaring that cryptopia could have lost access to all his wallets.

It's possible they've lost access to private keys, but it's also possible that they were ordered to shut everything down by Police and were therefore not able to move remaining funds to cold storage. I would imagine that even experienced forensic/cyber criminal investigators assume that shutting down a compromised cryptocurrency server safeguards against further loss... which is very, very wrong.

If they had lost access to private keys their Bitcoin wallets would have been the first thing to get emptied. It's more likely they are taking legal advice on what their options are from lawyers.
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January 22, 2019, 02:51:59 AM
 #2480

So the latest rumour I've heard (I live in this city and know people that work there) is that one employee (a person I used to know from the IT sector incidentally) is of particular interest, taking an overseas holiday the day before the hack at no/little notice, and is now unreachable.

Again just a rumour, though does correlate well with the elementus article which suggests the whole db has been yoinked
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