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Author Topic: Cryptopia Cryptocurrency Platform Services and Development  (Read 145628 times)
Labrader
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May 19, 2019, 10:28:44 PM
 #3781

It is exactly the reason why they had to call in the liquidators - because they cannot use other peoples funds or continue trading if they are insolvent.
That's not true. You don't have to involve a liquidator if you want to close a business. You simply close it, pay back all the concerned parties and that's that. And make no mistake, this is a voluntary liquidation, no one forced it upon them. It clearly says so in their company filings. A question remains: if voluntary, why not first receivership but straight to liquidation? Contrasting this with all their tweets saying they are on the way to resuming normal activity?

It doesn't even necessarily mean that there is not enough funds to cover the debt. It could be that they do not have enough cash at hand to pay for their bills going forward.
Again, wrong. The only real reason why one would call a liquidator is because they can't pay back and seek the protection of the liquidation process. No one is crazy to call someone who gets a fat cut if they can simply close a company.

Of course it's not that simple, we don't know how much was hacked, if indeed was a hack. Again, no reason not to post the hack TX, unless you want to hide something: amount, destination etc. So complete secrecy about the hack + voluntary liquidation = draw your own conclusions.
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xtraelv
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May 20, 2019, 01:34:00 AM
 #3782

It is exactly the reason why they had to call in the liquidators - because they cannot use other peoples funds or continue trading if they are insolvent.
That's not true. You don't have to involve a liquidator if you want to close a business. You simply close it, pay back all the concerned parties and that's that. And make no mistake, this is a voluntary liquidation, no one forced it upon them. It clearly says so in their company filings. A question remains: if voluntary, why not first receivership but straight to liquidation? Contrasting this with all their tweets saying they are on the way to resuming normal activity?

Nope. Not allowed under the Companies Act 1993
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0105/203.0/DLM319570.html

Also I don't think you understand the terminology that you are using.

Receivership is where the assets are sold for the benefit of one secured creditor. Appointment is through enforcement of a clause in the deed or instrument that created the security.  

Liquidation is where the assets are returned or sold for the benefit of all creditors. A liquidator can be appointed by the company or by a creditor petitioning the court.
Where a company appoints a liquidator costs are saved because if a creditor petitions the court their legal fees are priority debt.






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May 20, 2019, 02:53:01 AM
 #3783

OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.

MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.

If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?

What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?

Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?

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May 20, 2019, 05:33:43 AM
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 #3784

So did anyone see the latest star vs forces of evil? That's like 10000x sadder then what happened to cryptopia. Star destroys all magic in the end and the high commission dies reee
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May 20, 2019, 09:15:56 AM
 #3785

We demand the imprisonment of criminals

And be a trial outside of New Zealand
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May 20, 2019, 10:57:05 AM
 #3786

OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.

MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.

If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?

What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?

Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?


My general understanding is that every time there is a pay-back to customers who lost their money, the method which results in the least possible returns is chosen.
If the BTC price drops, they'll return you the amount of BTC you lost. If the BTC price raises, they'll say that they'll refund whatever value their users were holding on "day x", so if you held 1 BTC on whatever day they like (hack-day or liquidation day? I dunno) and they'll refund you in 2 years when BTC's price could be $20k, then you'll receive $6k~$8k instead of $20k.

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May 20, 2019, 02:13:41 PM
 #3787

Has anyone done analysis of Cryptopia's hot wallets to see if funds have moved subsequent to their liquidation?
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May 20, 2019, 02:30:06 PM
Last edit: May 20, 2019, 03:25:12 PM by four3200
 #3788

Scammers Next Scam
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The main problems with this exchange have to do with the fact that they are not accountable to anybody for anything. They aren't a registered business, they don't have any sort of licensing, and nobody knows where the owners or operators are located.

They started demanding KYC from all users after their company was dissolved, which is beyond weird. If they're not a real company, why do they need KYC? They aren't reporting to any government, they're not paying taxes; they're just a rogue operation who depend on either the loyalty of their user base (rapidly dissipating) or the naivete of new users to keep them going.

TradeSatoshi is down to $46k in trading volume per 24 hours; at a 0.1% fee this means they are only making $46 per day on trading fees. As huge withdrawal fees wasn't working in their favor, I believe they had to resort to the sudden KYC-for-everybody manuver as means to generate additional revenue. Plus, as I mentioned before, reputable exchanges don't use this as an excuse to with-hold customer funds and block them out of their accounts, even if it says they could according to their terms and conditions.

Its just bad business all the way around and potential users need to be warned about their practices.

They are actually legally registered in Hong Kong. I posted a search I had done earlier in the thread after someone posted that they were struck off on the UK register.

They were already registered in HK before they were struck off. So it appears to be a deliberate move to a new jurisdiction.


Tradesatoshi Ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong according to its terms:



https://tradesatoshi.com/Home/Terms

It is currently a registered company in Hong Kong according to the register.



https://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/

I'm not sure where it was incorporated prior to this. It is likely that it moved its operation to Hong Kong prior to its de-registration in the UK.

Coinmarketcap shows a turnover of  $91k
https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/trade-satoshi/

With a buy 0.1% and sell 0.1% fee that would make $182 daily in fees
But they also charge for listing coins, tipping slots and airdrops.

Tradesatoshi - BEWARE! Blocking without reasons. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5118992.new#new
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrencyTrading/comments/b2w8d6/tradesatoshi_accounts_blocking_beware/
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/tradesatoshi.com?languages=all
service thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1691388.540


Tradesatoshi.com belongs to Adam Clark.
Well he is also one of the owners of the now bancrupt exchange cryptopia.
All victims of cryptopia know now how they were cheated.
After the hack around 15% of funds were lost.
But most of the remaining cryptos were not able to be traded or withdrawn afterwards.
So Cryptopia made mode damage than the hackers.
False and missing information from the scammers at cryptopia.
All Funds inside are now lost.
But until the last day they allowed deposits, so they rose the damage.
Just keep that in mind, if you trade on tradesatoshi.com with at least one of the same guys...and think twice if you can trust them....

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May 20, 2019, 05:47:25 PM
 #3789

We demand the imprisonment of criminals

And be a trial outside of New Zealand
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May 20, 2019, 09:17:24 PM
 #3790

We demand the imprisonment of criminals

And be a trial outside of New Zealand

Typical dumbass comment from a resident of a country where their laws are worth less than 2nd hand toilet paper.

Be assured if Cryptopia owners have done any illegal activities they'll have their balls (or lady balls) nailed to the wall.

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May 20, 2019, 11:35:04 PM
 #3791

Tradesatoshi.com belongs to Adam Clark.
Well he is also one of the owners of the now bancrupt exchange cryptopia.
All victims of cryptopia know now how they were cheated.
After the hack around 15% of funds were lost.
But most of the remaining cryptos were not able to be traded or withdrawn afterwards.
So Cryptopia made mode damage than the hackers.
False and missing information from the scammers at cryptopia.
All Funds inside are now lost.
But until the last day they allowed deposits, so they rose the damage.
Just keep that in mind, if you trade on tradesatoshi.com with at least one of the same guys...and think twice if you can trust them....

As far as I am aware Tradesatoshi does not belong to Adam Clark.

Francesco Alibrandi started Tradesatoshi and paid Adam Clark for the code to set up an exchange. Since then the exchange has changed a lot and has other site developers.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09878766/officers

Since then Tradesatoshi moved its jurisdiction from the UK to HK.
According to the HK company records Francesco Alibrandi is still the sole director.


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May 21, 2019, 12:34:04 AM
Last edit: May 21, 2019, 01:45:57 AM by xtraelv
Merited by vapourminer (1), RivAngE (1), taikuri13 (1)
 #3792

Looks like the stolen Ethereum is on the move and being laundered on Huobi

https://www.coindesk.com/the-cryptopia-hackers-are-moving-funds-into-at-least-four-wallets

Quote
Now, according to an analysis by CoinFirm, the hackers are moving that cash into separate wallets, including two CoinDesk found that were directly connected to Huobi.






OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.

MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.

If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?

What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?

Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?



MtGox was very different. They only traded bitcoin and were insolvent for some time (several hacks).



It was initially thought there were no bitcoins left but a cold wallet was eventually "found".

MtGox was based in Japan so Japanese law applied and funds were intermingled with company funds.

NZ law is different. Most of the coins I don't expect to have been intermingled. I have previously posted how I expect the liquidation to be conducted.

here and here Any other way would be stupid and will get a lot of opposition.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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May 21, 2019, 09:55:27 AM
 #3793



I read that at the MtGox exchange case every client of that exchange had options to decide:
   1. to be paid in USD or JPY (court sold 10-20% of found bitcoins)
   2. to be paid in found bitcoins

Those options are very fair.

Process still lasts, and at this moment no client is paid by found bitcoins or by fiat money, as I know.

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May 21, 2019, 10:26:11 AM
 #3794

OK so there's something that's confusing me a lot regarding cryptos and liquidation. Particularly with MTgox and what happened to their customers and apologies in advance if I've got the wrong idea regarding this.

MTGox repaid their customers in USD value at the time of the liquidation, they did not return the coins users had.

If cryptopia does this in a few months and say we still go at the parabolic rate the market is going in now, can they do the same thing and pay back what the USD value is now?

What happens, if they do pay the $$$ value, to the coins left over. Who gets them?

Same question with MTgox, who or what entity is now owners of the bitcoins not paid out?



They will probably pay $$$ value at the time of the hack,

The floating question right now what will be the value of those coins that only being traded on cryptopia? Having zero exchange their value is flat zero. The liquidators should just refund the users of those non-liquid coins.

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May 21, 2019, 10:36:31 AM
 #3795



Why do you think liquidators should decide about things which are not part of the Cryptopia's assets?

I don't want that anybody decide about my asset except me!

I want all coins which are at my portfolio. I don't want fiat.

I did not accredit any liquidators to work with my coins.

I want to decide what to do with my coins, and that is my right.



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May 21, 2019, 12:43:24 PM
 #3796

I say that another time,

this situation looks very similar to Bitgrail hack.

On may 2018 Bitgrail reopened withdrawals for a couple of hours (allowing me to luckily withdraw big part of my funds) but after 2 hours the italian Court ordered them to close all withdrawals, so the funds were not considered customer property, and it's not still 100% clear but, even if only "nano" were stolen, they will probably use BTC to pay also. nano hodlers. Unfortunately nano hack was enormously bigger than other crypto balances.
At the end it's very likely BTC will be used to pay lawyers and not much else.
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May 21, 2019, 03:41:39 PM
 #3797

Why do you think liquidators should decide about things which are not part of the Cryptopia's assets?

I don't want that anybody decide about my asset except me!

I want all coins which are at my portfolio. I don't want fiat.

I did not accredit any liquidators to work with my coins.

I want to decide what to do with my coins, and that is my right.



I AGREE
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May 21, 2019, 04:05:39 PM
 #3798

Scammer Assistant xtraelv
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eat a bag of rainbow coloured sheep balls
https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-clark-20a07887/

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May 21, 2019, 05:35:58 PM
 #3799


I don't understand what the liquidators are going to do with safe coins... I mean those cryptocurrencies that where not stolen by hakers.... Will they sell everything and give everybody just a fraction of that they had before? Or will they let withdraw of unaffected cryptocurrencies?

It's not clear.


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May 21, 2019, 08:00:17 PM
 #3800

Cryptopia’s stolen crypto apparently found on exchanges from https://coingeek.com/cryptopias-stolen-crypto-apparently-found-on-exchanges/
New Zealand-based cryptocurrency exchange Cryptopia was reportedly hacked not once, but twice this past January. “Millions of dollars” in crypto was lost, including Ether (ETH) and Centrality (CENNZ). Cryptopia went dark shortly after the malicious activity in an effort to repair the damage and put everything back in order, only to finally succumb to its wounds last week and be placed in a coffin. The crypto community wasn’t ready to give up the hunt for what happened to the funds, and many of them have reportedly now been found.

According to Elementus, a blockchain analysis company, Cryptopia lost about $16 million in total, with hackers getting away with ETH, CENNZ, Lisk ML, Pillar, Enjin Coin, LINA and many more. A tweet by AMLT Token & Network from a few days ago indicates how the coins were distributed, stating, “As the #CryptopiaHack story continues to unfold, almost all tokens landed on major exchanges while the #ETH still sits on a hackers address according to @Coinfirm_io coinfirm.com. Below is @0xProject $ZRX @KyberNetwork $KNC @PowerLedger_io $powr going to exchanges.”

The tweet included a graph of crypto movements, assumedly showing how the different currencies were being spread.

A later tweet by Confirm stated that 10 ETH – out of the 30,790 that were stolen – ended up on “major crypto exchanges.” It didn’t, however, specify to which exchanges the funds were sent, only offering, “The #Cryptopia hacker just moved funds to a major #crypto exchange according to Coinfirm! The hacker sent 30790 #ETH (~$7.67M) to a new address (Yellow) and then sent 10 ETH (~$2500) to an exchange address (green) that then landed on their Hot Wallet.”

The tracking of the stolen funds has become an obsession with some crypto enthusiasts and analysts because there is a working theory that Cryptopia was never hacked. It is theorized that it was an inside job, a suggestion reiterated by Reddit user “seemee89,” who stated, “It’s easy to understand. Cryptopia can’t follow legal frameworks. Cryptopia pays hackers to hack exchange or they ‘hack’ themselves. Cryptopia closes the company and founders are swimming with dolphins on Fiji with Eth and [Bitcoin Core] earned. So, this Eth is actually not hackers ownership but founder ownership, right?”
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