Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Moria843]

Wake me up when we cross $500

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[kralkral]

When do we hit 300$ again? Tomorrow, next week, next month?

Wake me up when we cross $500

Ok, you can sleep for 2 more winters.

[Omikifuse]

last times the price hoovered around 290, a big dump happened and no 300 cross.

Be around 290 makes me more worried than when price was 240

[Erdogan]

You have explained nothing, you seem to be fixated on the word intrinsic, and refuse to discuss what it is. In fact you got this right in a previous post: Gold's utility value is pretty low and its current price is mostly speculative.

By refusing to use the tools of the trade (the words, in this case), you at the same time refuse insight. It is common, but bad.

"Intrinsic" has a meaning. If economists (or Aztec) misuse that word and then go on to act as if it meant what it actually meant, then of course wrong conclusions will be drawn. Are we really just going to accept conventional economics on this forum or look closer and seek the truth? First principles man...

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?

It has four, unless a keynesian tries to count them.

Also linguistically, my use of the word is correct. A can of beer can cool your throat, make your jokes worse, give you a little energy and balance your bodys fluid contents. It is the intrinsic aspects of the beer that give you these services. It is contained in the beer, it is inherent, inborn native, inseparable, deep-rooted in the beer itself. The properties are therefore intrinsic, and it is the intrinsic value of the beer for anyone who prefer those things.

A bunch of dollars do not have these values intrinsically. You can, on the other hand, fill your pockets with dollars and go to bali, in the speculation that you can exchange them for beer. It is not certain, you need to find someone who has beer and wants to sell. The risk is low, but not zero. The money is liquid. The value of the dollars is not that it can cool your throat, they can't. You have to speculate that you can exchange them for beer. Wen you get there, you are only loaded with money value.

You seem to think that intrinsic means absolute, it does absolutely not mean that. It does not mean static, it does not mean physical, or hard, or measurable. Intrinsic value is not better than money value. In fact, money value is better because it is more general. (Well your body exists in the physical world, so you sometimes have to consume something). You can easily google the words meaning yourself.

By erring in these definitions, it is impossible to discuss bitcoin with gold bugs. "But gold has intrinsic value!!! It shines!!!". Who cares? We are here to discuss money, and as you said, the intrinsic value of gold exists, but is small, the money value is the important part of the value, and bitcoin has only speculative, money value. That is what it is all about.

The newcomers have a hard time with this, because bankers and other politicians all the time wants to obscure what they are doing. Use the correct words and lay it out, and it is easily understandable for everyone.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[coins101]

Is Bitcoin the only global currency traded 24/7/365?

[Richy_T]

Also linguistically, my use of the word is correct. A can of beer can cool your throat, make your jokes worse, give you a little energy and balance your bodys fluid contents. It is the intrinsic aspects of the beer that give you these services. It is contained in the beer, it is inherent, inborn native, inseparable, deep-rooted in the beer itself. The properties are therefore intrinsic, and it is the intrinsic value of the beer for anyone who prefer those things.

My friend from Alpha Centauri says that beer would dissolve the flesh from inside his carapace and gront his falamble. Chartbuddy said last time he had a beer, it rusted his diodes and contaminated his oil. Where is your intrinsic value now?

Besides which, that would be a property (which you actually used). I would not say that a beach ball had a value of yellow.

In fact Let's look at your sentence again...

it is the intrinsic value

continue...

for anyone who prefer those things

So a subjective value designated externally. One might almost call that extrinsic value.

[Gyrsur]

Also linguistically, my use of the word is correct. A can of beer can cool your throat, make your jokes worse, give you a little energy and balance your bodys fluid contents. It is the intrinsic aspects of the beer that give you these services. It is contained in the beer, it is inherent, inborn native, inseparable, deep-rooted in the beer itself. The properties are therefore intrinsic, and it is the intrinsic value of the beer for anyone who prefer those things.

My friend from Alpha Centauri says that beer would dissolve the flesh from inside his carapace and gront his falamble. Chartbuddy said last time he had a beer, it rusted his diodes and contaminated his oil. Where is your intrinsic value now?

Besides which, that would be a property (which you actually used). I would not say that a beach ball had a value of yellow.

In fact Let's look at your sentence again...

it is the intrinsic value

continue...

for anyone who prefer those things

So a subjective value designated externally. One might almost call that extrinsic value.

42!!

[Andre#]

You have explained nothing, you seem to be fixated on the word intrinsic, and refuse to discuss what it is. In fact you got this right in a previous post: Gold's utility value is pretty low and its current price is mostly speculative.

By refusing to use the tools of the trade (the words, in this case), you at the same time refuse insight. It is common, but bad.

"Intrinsic" has a meaning. If economists (or Aztec) misuse that word and then go on to act as if it meant what it actually meant, then of course wrong conclusions will be drawn. Are we really just going to accept conventional economics on this forum or look closer and seek the truth? First principles man...

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?

It has four, unless a keynesian tries to count them.

Also linguistically, my use of the word is correct. A can of beer can cool your throat, make your jokes worse, give you a little energy and balance your bodys fluid contents. It is the intrinsic aspects of the beer that give you these services. It is contained in the beer, it is inherent, inborn native, inseparable, deep-rooted in the beer itself. The properties are therefore intrinsic, and it is the intrinsic value of the beer for anyone who prefer those things.

A bunch of dollars do not have these values intrinsically. You can, on the other hand, fill your pockets with dollars and go to bali, in the speculation that you can exchange them for beer. It is not certain, you need to find someone who has beer and wants to sell. The risk is low, but not zero. The money is liquid. The value of the dollars is not that it can cool your throat, they can't. You have to speculate that you can exchange them for beer. Wen you get there, you are only loaded with money value.

You seem to think that intrinsic means absolute, it does absolutely not mean that. It does not mean static, it does not mean physical, or hard, or measurable. Intrinsic value is not better than money value. In fact, money value is better because it is more general. (Well your body exists in the physical world, so you sometimes have to consume something). You can easily google the words meaning yourself.

By erring in these definitions, it is impossible to discuss bitcoin with gold bugs. "But gold has intrinsic value!!! It shines!!!". Who cares? We are here to discuss money, and as you said, the intrinsic value of gold exists, but is small, the money value is the important part of the value, and bitcoin has only speculative, money value. That is what it is all about.

The newcomers have a hard time with this, because bankers and other politicians all the time wants to obscure what they are doing. Use the correct words and lay it out, and it is easily understandable for everyone.

Well said. +1

[eerygarden]

Oh, this thread is getting bigger and bigger!

Anyways, is it relatively safe to move my entire savings into Bitcoin? I want help from experts about this..

For sure, it's.

Why wouldn't it be not ?

Price may drop to $100 or something like this and I can lose everything very fast, right? Is it even possible? I'm really afraid of this.

Well, you will find my reply highly optimistic and realistic for me, so please don't understand as I'm encouraging you or anything.

First of all, always don't risk what you can't afford to lose.

Second, since first doesn't apply for me, because I'm all in, I can't see that bitcoin will go to zero or will take a high dip to $100, even if it took, I will be ultra-happy so I can buy more coins.

Third, as I always say, forget about the normal Joe like you and me, do you think all that bitcoin startups and VC with all effort, money and power put into bitcoin, is put without seeing tomorrow ? We are talking here about millions of millions.

At last, I see a better tomorrow with Bitcoin, not only me, a lot here agrees with me and we as a community march together for a better tomorrow, and let this reply be the witness

ive read this numerous times - care to explain?

I nearly asked the same question but figured he meant from new income.

[Fakhoury]

Oh, this thread is getting bigger and bigger!

Anyways, is it relatively safe to move my entire savings into Bitcoin? I want help from experts about this..

For sure, it's.

Why wouldn't it be not ?

Price may drop to $100 or something like this and I can lose everything very fast, right? Is it even possible? I'm really afraid of this.

Well, you will find my reply highly optimistic and realistic for me, so please don't understand as I'm encouraging you or anything.

First of all, always don't risk what you can't afford to lose.

Second, since first doesn't apply for me, because I'm all in, I can't see that bitcoin will go to zero or will take a high dip to $100, even if it took, I will be ultra-happy so I can buy more coins.

Third, as I always say, forget about the normal Joe like you and me, do you think all that bitcoin startups and VC with all effort, money and power put into bitcoin, is put without seeing tomorrow ? We are talking here about millions of millions.

At last, I see a better tomorrow with Bitcoin, not only me, a lot here agrees with me and we as a community march together for a better tomorrow, and let this reply be the witness

ive read this numerous times - care to explain?

I nearly asked the same question but figured he meant from new income.

Pardon me edgar and eerygarden, could you please elaborate more your question and I will gladly reply to it

Thank you.

[Erdogan]

Also linguistically, my use of the word is correct. A can of beer can cool your throat, make your jokes worse, give you a little energy and balance your bodys fluid contents. It is the intrinsic aspects of the beer that give you these services. It is contained in the beer, it is inherent, inborn native, inseparable, deep-rooted in the beer itself. The properties are therefore intrinsic, and it is the intrinsic value of the beer for anyone who prefer those things.

My friend from Alpha Centauri says that beer would dissolve the flesh from inside his carapace and gront his falamble. Chartbuddy said last time he had a beer, it rusted his diodes and contaminated his oil. Where is your intrinsic value now?

Besides which, that would be a property (which you actually used). I would not say that a beach ball had a value of yellow.

In fact Let's look at your sentence again...

it is the intrinsic value

continue...

for anyone who prefer those things

So a subjective value designated externally. One might almost call that extrinsic value.

You are obviusly not stupid, and yes, the value is defined not by the beer in itself, but individuals, considering it, all persons are different, so there is no yardstick, it is personal, psychological, individual. Every price you see, is the value from individuals preferring, with the help of their total life experience and individual needs, one thing over another. Is this your problem, do you think that therefore, we can not group value into two distinct types, intrinsic and speculative?

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[eerygarden]

Oh, this thread is getting bigger and bigger!

Anyways, is it relatively safe to move my entire savings into Bitcoin? I want help from experts about this..

For sure, it's.

Why wouldn't it be not ?

Price may drop to $100 or something like this and I can lose everything very fast, right? Is it even possible? I'm really afraid of this.

Well, you will find my reply highly optimistic and realistic for me, so please don't understand as I'm encouraging you or anything.

First of all, always don't risk what you can't afford to lose.

Second, since first doesn't apply for me, because I'm all in, I can't see that bitcoin will go to zero or will take a high dip to $100, even if it took, I will be ultra-happy so I can buy more coins.

Third, as I always say, forget about the normal Joe like you and me, do you think all that bitcoin startups and VC with all effort, money and power put into bitcoin, is put without seeing tomorrow ? We are talking here about millions of millions.

At last, I see a better tomorrow with Bitcoin, not only me, a lot here agrees with me and we as a community march together for a better tomorrow, and let this reply be the witness

ive read this numerous times - care to explain?

I nearly asked the same question but figured he meant from new income.

Pardon me edgar and eerygarden, could you please elaborate more your question and I will gladly reply to it

Thank you.

How can you buy more if you are all in? With new income right?

[Fakhoury]

Oh, this thread is getting bigger and bigger!

Anyways, is it relatively safe to move my entire savings into Bitcoin? I want help from experts about this..

For sure, it's.

Why wouldn't it be not ?

Price may drop to $100 or something like this and I can lose everything very fast, right? Is it even possible? I'm really afraid of this.

Well, you will find my reply highly optimistic and realistic for me, so please don't understand as I'm encouraging you or anything.

First of all, always don't risk what you can't afford to lose.

Second, since first doesn't apply for me, because I'm all in, I can't see that bitcoin will go to zero or will take a high dip to $100, even if it took, I will be ultra-happy so I can buy more coins.

Third, as I always say, forget about the normal Joe like you and me, do you think all that bitcoin startups and VC with all effort, money and power put into bitcoin, is put without seeing tomorrow ? We are talking here about millions of millions.

At last, I see a better tomorrow with Bitcoin, not only me, a lot here agrees with me and we as a community march together for a better tomorrow, and let this reply be the witness

ive read this numerous times - care to explain?

I nearly asked the same question but figured he meant from new income.

Pardon me edgar and eerygarden, could you please elaborate more your question and I will gladly reply to it

Thank you.

How can you buy more if you are all in? With new income right?

Yes, you are right.

What I meant to say is, I work online and offline, online I take BTC and any other payments I take, I automatically convert it to BTC.

Offline, I nearly save 30% or 40% from my monthly income in BTC.

I will be doing this until I reach a peak which I've set for myself, but hopefully I will not go beyond my peak, it's not a matter of greed, but fear from future.

If you have anything more to ask, go ahead

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Almost for 2mil$ longs closed in last 24h (shorts more or less on the same level) on finex and the price is still going up...  
300$ could be tested in next 12h!

Interesting. I'd rather not cross 300 for a little while though if as soon as we get over it people start dumping again.

[bassclef]

A Greece deal has reached.

Selling is the best option for now

IMF warned that Greece needs deeper debt relief. Not over yet.

[macsga]

A Greece deal has reached.

Selling is the best option for now

IMF warned that Greece needs deeper debt relief. Not over yet.

Agree; we're FAR from a "deal". A portion of SYRIZA has revolted against the austerity package and they refuse to vote for it; if that happens elections it is sooner than later. AFAIC the viability of the debt... let me say it out loud:

HA

HA

HA!

[Richy_T]

You are obviusly not stupid, and yes, the value is defined not by the beer in itself, but individuals, considering it, all persons are different, so there is no yardstick, it is personal, psychological, individual. Every price you see, is the value from individuals preferring, with the help of their total life experience and individual needs, one thing over another. Is this your problem, do you think that therefore, we can not group value into two distinct types, intrinsic and speculative?

Oh, we can have many groups of value. In fact, I would say that intrinsic and speculative would surely not be enough since, in my book, intrinsic value would be an empty set. Speculative is a subset of extrinsic value since one might value something not merely because one hopes to exchange it for increased value/price later.

Now, the intrinsic properties of gold might have subjective value in the common sphere. It is shiny, resists corrosion, easily malleable, heavy (dense), all that jazz. But all those are location, time and context dependent.

At this stage, I think we both see where the other is coming from so there's little point beating it to death and there are many better places to read about the arguments. Austrian economics just tends to reject the idea of intrinsic value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation