Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

The problem with daytrading is, as I live in Germany (and understood it correctly), I have to pay 30% taxes with every cashout. Only when I hold longer than 1 year, then there are no taxes. And hell I don´t give them dicks $1 of taxes. I invest and risk my money and if I lose it they don´t care. But when I make profits, they want 30%. Fuck them.

You *should* be able to offset any losses incurred in the last 3 years against your gains. Its just that few people crystalise losses by cashing out on a bad trade. But if you can get it tax free after hodling for 12 months, then you are doing pretty good. Not many tax regimes in Europe are that generous. 

[1714791602]

1714791602

[Fatman3001]

Nice spike in BDD...

Almost as if someone is getting ready for something.

I know history doesn't repeat itself. But history repeats itself.

If this choo choo doesn't start chugging hard we're going to get a smackdown from finex in mid-january.

Disclaimer: I'm full of shit, everything is rosy.

Hi,

Maybe a noob question, but what does this mean?

Thx :-)

The chart?

It means that someone moved a lot of old coins (edit: that haven't been moved in a long time). The general assumption is that it is in order to dump on an exchange. Whether or not that is true can be difficult to know, but traders may treat it as a dump signal nonetheless.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[oda.krell]

The problem with daytrading is, as I live in Germany (and understood it correctly), I have to pay 30% taxes with every cashout. Only when I hold longer than 1 year, then there are no taxes. And hell I don´t give them dicks $1 of taxes. I invest and risk my money and if I lose it they don´t care. But when I make profits, they want 30%. Fuck them.

Otherwise without taxes I would do it. Buy 50 coins @450, sell them @460 and make $500 profit. Wait for a little crash, redo it etc. I know you mean it different but thats what I would do if there were no taxes.

The 60% investment is long term. With the rest I would try daytrading and make some extra cash with every high/low.

Small correction: Your individual income tax rate applies for (profitable) trades < 1 year apart. That could be less than 30%, or could be more.

(EDIT) Obligatory IANA(tax)L disclaimer.

[Fatman3001]

Small correction: Your individual income tax rate applies for (profitable) trades < 1 year apart. That could be less than 30%, or could be more.

(EDIT) Obligatory IANA(tax)L disclaimer.

Irrelevant. All bitcoin enthusiasts are in the top tax bracket. Also stunningly good looking.

I showed a picture here of myself once. It got deleted instantly.

that bottom pic was just to horrific   

[Evel-Knievel]

Nice spike in BDD...
https://i.imgur.com/aoG3YfD.png

Almost as if someone is getting ready for something.

I know history doesn't repeat itself. But history repeats itself.

If this choo choo doesn't start chugging hard we're going to get a smackdown from finex in mid-january.

Disclaimer: I'm full of shit, everything is rosy.

Hi,

Maybe a noob question, but what does this mean?

Thx :-)

The chart?

It means that someone moved a lot of old coins (edit: that haven't been moved in a long time). The general assumption is that it is in order to dump on an exchange. Whether or not that is true can be difficult to know, but traders may treat it as a dump signal nonetheless.

Thx for explaining ;-)

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Small correction: Your individual income tax rate applies for (profitable) trades < 1 year apart. That could be less than 30%, or could be more.

(EDIT) Obligatory IANA(tax)L disclaimer.

Irrelevant. All bitcoin enthusiasts are in the top tax bracket. Also stunningly good looking.

I showed a picture here of myself once. It got deleted instantly.

that bottom pic was just to horrific   

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

that bottom pic was just to horrific   

Yeah, and then there are those who aren't enthralled by Fistula.
https://youtu.be/Wvr6N7PNszc

Courtney Love has really let herself go.

[Fatman3001]

Small correction: Your individual income tax rate applies for (profitable) trades < 1 year apart. That could be less than 30%, or could be more.

(EDIT) Obligatory IANA(tax)L disclaimer.

Irrelevant. All bitcoin enthusiasts are in the top tax bracket. Also stunningly good looking.

I showed a picture here of myself once. It got deleted instantly.

that bottom pic was just to horrific   

Yeah, and then there are those who aren't enthralled by Fistula.
https://youtu.be/Wvr6N7PNszc

I'm disgusted, you shouldn't treat a Besson Sovereign like that.

[HI-TEC99]

Nice spike in BDD...

Almost as if someone is getting ready for something.

I know history doesn't repeat itself. But history repeats itself.

If this choo choo doesn't start chugging hard we're going to get a smackdown from finex in mid-january.

Disclaimer: I'm full of shit, everything is rosy.

Hi,

Maybe a noob question, but what does this mean?

Thx :-)

The chart?

It means that someone moved a lot of old coins (edit: that haven't been moved in a long time). The general assumption is that it is in order to dump on an exchange. Whether or not that is true can be difficult to know, but traders may treat it as a dump signal nonetheless.

When someone moves a lot of old coins that haven't moved in a long time there is often someone here who finds the transactions they moved in and posts them here. I'm not clever enough to track them but I would be grateful if someone who is posts them here for us to see. I'd like to know exactly how long it was since those coins moved.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Richy_T]

what, all exchanges are down

Seems unlikely.

I recently made some changes to the filenames I use to make it more friendly for sharing (which I hope to get around to soon). Seems likely there's some kind of bug in there since this happened at 12am (Though that was 12 central and ChartBuddy operates on UTC).

Edit: Oh, I think I may have an idea. Though that would have made it happen more than once...

Edit2: I see what happened. Now to work out how to extricate myself.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Elwar]

Nice spike in BDD...

Almost as if someone is getting ready for something.

I know history doesn't repeat itself. But history repeats itself.

If this choo choo doesn't start chugging hard we're going to get a smackdown from finex in mid-january.

Disclaimer: I'm full of shit, everything is rosy.

Hi,

Maybe a noob question, but what does this mean?

Thx :-)

The chart?

It means that someone moved a lot of old coins (edit: that haven't been moved in a long time). The general assumption is that it is in order to dump on an exchange. Whether or not that is true can be difficult to know, but traders may treat it as a dump signal nonetheless.

When someone moves a lot of old coins that haven't moved in a long time there is often someone here who finds the transactions they moved in and posts them here. I'm not clever enough to track them but I would be grateful if someone who is posts them here for us to see. I'd like to know exactly how long it was since those coins moved.

Early coins moving is good for long term. Even if they sell and there's a short term drop in price it means that there are less huge wallets hanging over our heads down the road.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

Thanks for all the replies. Well, I wish I would have listened to my intention and bought Facebook stocks on day 1. Instead, I listened to others again. When it comes to diversification, I only know the usual suspects. Gold, wich is in the hand of the US government and they manipulate the price how they like. Same goes on with silver. And any other usual investment is controlled by the governments. So I only see BTC as independent at the moment.

60% in BTC, yeah thats a lot. And maybe you all are right. It is more then enough. But it bothers me to keep the rest of my money in FIAT at home. I don´t trust any banks. Gold, I would like to buy some gold and store it at home. But there is no profit with gold. And about other investments, I have no idea.

Actually, if you have that much cash liquid...sign up at localbitcoins to buy/sell bitcoins for a profit. Start earning money on your holdings.

I agree...

There are ways to put your cash to work, without getting so anxious about having some cash that may seem as if it is not working (because it is merely in reserve for wider downward price swings, for example).

So for example, underdog 81 could allocate the cash towards buying at certain strategic points...

Let's say for example, Underdog 81 has about 100 bitcoins and about $20k in cash, but he does not have any other investments.


I don't really have any major problem with someone who doesn't want to invest in stocks or gold or real estate... Actually bitcoin gives quite a bit of flexibility to trade whenever a guy wants, and there are ways in which the fees can be near or close to zero in bitcoin, as compared with some other mainstream investments.


Accordingly, underdog 81 should figure that for every dollar bitcoin goes up, his total BTC portfolio value goes up $100... accordingly, if BTC goes up $10, then his BTC portfolio goes up $1000... There's a lot that can be worked from that framework... and he should not be conceiving that he will get more rich if he invests all of his fiat in BTC because, there would likely be too much stress and resentment if the BTC market works against him.


Accordingly, underdog81 could stagger his cash allocation to invest in $5 or $10 increments.. and maintain some flexibility.  For example, he could invest into BTC approximately $500 for every $5 that BTC prices go down, and sell $200 for every $10 that it goes up.. (and don't be too rigid).

There are a lot of ways to tweak the preallocated numbers too, especially a person does not want to be too rigid especially if he is pretty sure that he can buy BTC cheaper in the next few hours or sell higher in the next few hours (or even days); however, at the same time, a guy doesn't want to become too greedy either, so needs to lock in the buy or the sell at certain points when the price direction may be changing, even if it is not at the exact top or bottom of the price swing... and there is no need to catch every price swing either because it is good to have "a life" even when trading the BTC price swings... it certainly should become easier after some practice and there are ways to learn to leave orders open when the market leaves you behind in either direction, because each of your BTC trades are not a high percentage of your total BTC holdings...

And, with such a strategy, underdog81 should be able to build both fiat and BTC... in the long run, as long as don't get too whimsical in strategies or greedy.   Oh, and sometimes in that regard, a person needs to have enough patience to wait out the price to let the price come to him or just to let it slide when the price seems to be going in the opposite direction... just sell at a higher price or buy at a lower price... when the price moves against you.. in order to make up for the still open position.

The problem with daytrading is, as I live in Germany (and understood it correctly), I have to pay 30% taxes with every cashout. Only when I hold longer than 1 year, then there are no taxes. And hell I don´t give them dicks $1 of taxes. I invest and risk my money and if I lose it they don´t care. But when I make profits, they want 30%. Fuck them.

Otherwise without taxes I would do it. Buy 50 coins @450, sell them @460 and make $500 profit. Wait for a little crash, redo it etc. I know you mean it different but thats what I would do if there were no taxes.

The 60% investment is long term. With the rest I would try daytrading and make some extra cash with every high/low.

Yes, I am talking about trading with a little different and more conservative strategy, because if you buy and sell even 10 coins, it is too stressful and risky when the market moves against you also when you are asserting that BTC is your only investment vehicle. In this regard, you are talking about trading 50 coins, which seems a bit ridiculous because it would be nearly 40% of your total holdings, and you could easily bet the wrong way.   Look at Adam, he sold a bunch of coins in the lower $400s and he has been waiting for $390 for quite a long time, and will we go to $390?  I certainly don't know but it is not looking good, and I would not want to have more than 3-5% of my stash placed in such a bet.  In essence, I am talking about trading less than 10% on a regular basis and if the market moves against you the levels may rise above 10% or even 20% at the utmost when you keep buying on the way down or selling on the way up..

In your case, if your total fiat currently is 35%, then maybe your EXTREME scenarios would include trading up to 40%, but you would not start trading 40%, you would have up to 40% in reserves that you could use in case the market continued to move against you for a prolonged period ... and then hopefully make all of the money back later when the market reverses.

In essence I am suggesting (especially when someone has all of their eggs in one basket and one kind of investment) that s/he needs to work with a smaller level of his holdings to ensure profitability in either direction, so long as ultimately in the longer term BTC prices go up, as we all expect.


Regarding taxable events, you can avoid taxes on the trading portion of your btc by keeping your money within exchanges, so it ONLY becomes a taxable after you remove it from the exchange.  I understand that a lot of people are hesitant about keeping their money on exchanges, so in that regard, you only keep a portion of your holdings with them.. and you do not create taxable events by converting to fiat, instead you transfer the money around in BTC and only convert to fiat when you are prepared to get TAXED... by the man.

One way to convert back and forth from BTC to fiat without fees is on Uphold.  You need to become a verified member of their service (which is pretty easy), and once you do then you can trade in various denominations without fees.   A disadvantage of Uphold is that your  converting back and forth has to be manual, so you have to log in and do it.  You cannot set it up to trigger and to trade at certain quantities and price triggers.

[JayJuanGee]

The problem with daytrading is, as I live in Germany (and understood it correctly), I have to pay 30% taxes with every cashout. Only when I hold longer than 1 year, then there are no taxes. And hell I don´t give them dicks $1 of taxes. I invest and risk my money and if I lose it they don´t care. But when I make profits, they want 30%. Fuck them.

I have to say, you can consider yourself very lucky to live in Germany - no taxes after holding for one  year is a huge plus over most other countries policies AFAIK.

Actually, good point.,.,. 

Looks like you can avoid taxes all together by having a bit of will power and not cashing out for a year... that should not be a problem, especially if you consider BTC to be a "long term" investment.

[ChartBuddy]

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Explanation

[Callahan]

Btc are optimist again:

Question:   price will ____ before it _____
rise, rises higher   - 68 (44.7%)
rise, goes lower   - 10 (6.6%)
go lower, rises   - 37 (24.3%)
go lower, drops lower   - 37 (24.3%)