Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Arriemoller]

So, I just got around to looking at the news on my computer. And they said that the president of Catalonia signed a document of independence, but it won't take effect until a couple of weeks.
Not quite the same thing as no independence. The game continues.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

EDIT: other news channel and some shit.

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[bitserve]

(SNIP) NOONE has the right to be above the law and obstruct law enforcement in a task that has been ordered by the Judges. I don't think that is allowed anywhere in the world.

Correct, but elsewhere in the world the judicial power is actually decoupled from the executive (government). Which in Spain it actually isn't - as per la Constitucion, not by some murky deal. So the court order smells like politics, and it looks a bit awkward from abroad. Luckily, actual beatings, brutality and killings were ultimately avoided - not like in Italy (G7) or France (crazy banlieues).

"Decoupled" judges, however, wouldn't probably have ordered anyone to shut down the referendum. Rather, in a normally functional country (which Spain totally is), they would have tried to stifle the effectiveness of the vote by declaring it "void of effects" or something like that.

"Unusual poll ordered by the Catalans at their own expense. This isn't orthodox, but OK, we know the result already."

Then  

"ahem, Houston, we have a problem. We, er, need to move, at least only officially."

Then it would have become a matter of negotiation.

"We (Spaniards) built this hospital. How much is it worth today to you Catalans?"

And then the EU. You can fill their line yourselfif you get my gist.

That said... I would have put all this shitshow to an end way sooner going directly for the promoters of the rebellion.  It is sad and very unfortunate things let go up to this point.

Uh... but it would smell like Franco, stir more shit. Bad move, too. Because the promoters have ample support - not total, granted, but you can't just "punish one to educate one thousand."

Inflexible negotiation with unfavorable financial accounting, that is the soft way.

All very valid points yes. I would argue that in Spain the judicial power is decoupled from the executive goverment. It is in fact in the constitution:

The Spanish Constitution guarantees respect for the essential principles necessary for the correct functioning of the judiciary:

    Impartiality: to guarantee the assured effective judicial trusteeship to all citizens by the Constitution, judges must remain impartial in cases that they judge and must abstain from cases that they have no reason to enter into.
    Independence: courts and tribunals are independent of all authority or people in the exercise of jurisdictional power.
    Irremovability: judges and magistrates are irremovable and cannot be removed, suspended, separated or retired without cause and with guarantees established by law.
    Responsibility: judges and magistrates are personally responsible for their disciplinary infractions and crimes committed in the exercise of their office; this responsibility can only be required by the established legal disciplinary tract, without interference by the executive or legislative branches of the government or through ordinary legal proceedings.
    Legality: in the exercise of their jurisdictional functions, judges and magistrates are subject to the Constitution and to the rest of the laws just as other branches of government and citizens are.

(I have cut and pasted from wikipedia in english to avoid the hassle of explaining it myself, but it is essentially correct)

But... I won't really argue it because that's just the theory. I am sure the government do have (informal) influence over a at least some judges. I think that's not unlike anywhere else in the world, but I might be wrong on that.

Or maybe you meant that no matter if they are theoretically decoupled but the constitution forced them to declare this "referendum" illegal anyways.

On either case yep, probably the judges had no real choice there.

It's a very complex and critical situation and I just hope it gets solved some day because it has lasted for too long already. Maybe a proper referendum within the law would be the solution, but even that is not that easy because, among other things, what happens with the catalonian people that does NOT want independence even if a slight or not so slight majority decided to? Suddenly they are forced into it? Maybe allow a referendum in each catalonian city where they decide if they want to secede from catalonia and remain in Spain?

No matter how this finally ends, there will be millions of people hurt in some way. And going on forever with this "impass" is maybe even worse. Or not. I don't know, but I don't see any good outcome of all this situation in any case.

Ultimately it seems that it is economy and business who have forced (temporarily) the suspension of this madness. Losing almost 50% of the GDP of a region is no joke at all.

Anyway, coming back to topic. Is it a coincidence that Bitcoin started to rally when the menace of independence inside EU heat up and just right after they declared the process suspended price got back down?

A rally would have been expected already and after a rally always comes some correction when it hit the strongest resistance but... it seems to be perfectly timed on the event. Maybe we are living this shit as some major historical moment and it is just an completely irrelevant "disturbance" in global scale.

[RoomBot]

I am pretty sure that you are correct on both counts, that the ATH is measured based on Bitstamp prices, which current ATH would be $4,980 (or maybe $4,979.90 or some variation of such), and I think that he has been using the UTC clock, too.

 New ATH (per stamp) would be $4979.xx ... We were so close, but then there's a drop and now we're sitting at $47xx

ATH watching is becoming an exciting spectator sport.  This wild BTC ride just gets fun-ner.

[bitserve]

So, I just got around to looking at the news on my computer. And they said that the president of Catalonia signed a document of independence, but it won't take effect until a couple of weeks.
Not quite the same thing as no independence. The game continues.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

EDIT: other news channel and some shit.

Nobody understand what exactly happened. Puigdemont didn't declare independence in his speech and talked about suspension of the process and more "negotiations", so everyone (in all sides) was like WTF!?

After the session ended, the political groups promoting independence signed a document (that wasn't voted nor referred to in the session) that seems to imply that independence is in fact declared.

Very confussing.

[Arriemoller]

(SNIP) NOONE has the right to be above the law and obstruct law enforcement in a task that has been ordered by the Judges. I don't think that is allowed anywhere in the world.

Correct, but elsewhere in the world the judicial power is actually decoupled from the executive (government). Which in Spain it actually isn't - as per la Constitucion, not by some murky deal. So the court order smells like politics, and it looks a bit awkward from abroad. Luckily, actual beatings, brutality and killings were ultimately avoided - not like in Italy (G7) or France (crazy banlieues).

"Decoupled" judges, however, wouldn't probably have ordered anyone to shut down the referendum. Rather, in a normally functional country (which Spain totally is), they would have tried to stifle the effectiveness of the vote by declaring it "void of effects" or something like that.

"Unusual poll ordered by the Catalans at their own expense. This isn't orthodox, but OK, we know the result already."

Then  

"ahem, Houston, we have a problem. We, er, need to move, at least only officially."

Then it would have become a matter of negotiation.

"We (Spaniards) built this hospital. How much is it worth today to you Catalans?"

And then the EU. You can fill their line yourselfif you get my gist.

That said... I would have put all this shitshow to an end way sooner going directly for the promoters of the rebellion.  It is sad and very unfortunate things let go up to this point.

Uh... but it would smell like Franco, stir more shit. Bad move, too. Because the promoters have ample support - not total, granted, but you can't just "punish one to educate one thousand."

Inflexible negotiation with unfavorable financial accounting, that is the soft way.

All very valid points yes. I would argue that in Spain the judicial power is decoupled from the executive goverment. It is in fact in the constitution:

The Spanish Constitution guarantees respect for the essential principles necessary for the correct functioning of the judiciary:

    Impartiality: to guarantee the assured effective judicial trusteeship to all citizens by the Constitution, judges must remain impartial in cases that they judge and must abstain from cases that they have no reason to enter into.
    Independence: courts and tribunals are independent of all authority or people in the exercise of jurisdictional power.
    Irremovability: judges and magistrates are irremovable and cannot be removed, suspended, separated or retired without cause and with guarantees established by law.
    Responsibility: judges and magistrates are personally responsible for their disciplinary infractions and crimes committed in the exercise of their office; this responsibility can only be required by the established legal disciplinary tract, without interference by the executive or legislative branches of the government or through ordinary legal proceedings.
    Legality: in the exercise of their jurisdictional functions, judges and magistrates are subject to the Constitution and to the rest of the laws just as other branches of government and citizens are.

(I have cut and pasted from wikipedia in english to avoid the hassle of explaining it myself, but it is essentially correct)

But... I won't really argue it because that's just the theory. I am sure the government do have (informal) influence over a at least some judges. I think that's not unlike anywhere else in the world, but I might be wrong on that.

Or maybe you meant that no matter if they are theoretically decoupled but the constitution forced them to declare this "referendum" illegal anyways.

On either case yep, probably the judges had no real choice there.

It's a very complex and critical situation and I just hope it gets solved some day because it has lasted for too long already. Maybe a proper referendum within the law would be the solution, but even that is not that easy because, among other things, what happens with the catalonian people that does NOT want independence even if a slight or not so slight majority decided to? Suddenly they are forced into it? Maybe allow a referendum in each catalonian city where they decide if they want to secede from catalonia and remain in Spain?

No matter how this finally ends, there will be millions of people hurt in some way. And going on forever with this "impass" is maybe even worse. Or not. I don't know, but I don't see any good outcome of all this situation in any case.

Ultimately it seems that it is economy and business who have forced (temporarily) the suspension of this madness. Losing almost 50% of the GDP of a region is no joke at all.

Anyway, coming back to topic. Is it a coincidence that Bitcoin started to rally when the menace of independence inside EU heat up and just right after they declared the process suspended price got back down?

A rally would have been expected already and after a rally always comes some correction when it hit the strongest resistance but... it seems to be perfectly timed on the event. Maybe we are living this shit as some major historical moment and it is just an completely irrelevant "disturbance" in global scale.

But it's not suspended, just postponed a couple of weeks, se my post right before yours.
He did sign a declaration of independence, to take effect in a couple of weeks.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

[bitserve]

But it's not suspended, just postponed a couple of weeks, se my post right before yours.
He did sign a declaration of independence, to take effect in a couple of weeks.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

Yeah, see my post above while you were writing yours. As you can see in that video, first Puigdemont talks about asking the parliament to suspend the independence process and keep negotiating. Then after the session ended his group and the CUP signed that document. Go figure.

It is rumored that they have signed an intentionally invalid document as a symbolic move. Until I hear more expert opinions about what does it really means and what are its implications I can't really form a solid opinion about it.

[Arriemoller]

But it's not suspended, just postponed a couple of weeks, se my post right before yours.
He did sign a declaration of independence, to take effect in a couple of weeks.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

Yeah, see my post above while you were writing yours. As you can see in that video, first Puigdemont talks about asking the parliament to suspend the independence process and keep negotiating. Then after the session ended his group and the CUP signed that document. Go figure.

sorry, missed that post.

[Arriemoller]

One of the things I really like with the bitcoin forums is the mixed nationalities of the posters. You got the north Americans talking about their stuff and Europeans about theirs, and the Asians trying, but failing because google translate sucks. And we all somehow get involved with each others stuff.
And I suppose the rest of the world is in here too.

For me, born way before the internet it's still mind boggling sometimes that perhaps someone in south America is reading a bitcoin forum in English with a link to a news piece in Swedish television about a crisis in Spain.

[Arriemoller]

That and smartphones and some other stuff is really the science fiction stuff I read about as a kid,(and yes, still do). I mean the stuff we have now is way more advanced than most of the stuff in Asimovs foundation books. Yes I know, we don't have the hyperspace jumping ships and R Daneel yet, but we are getting there fast.

[jojo69]

livin' in the future man   

[fluidjax]

Our wall observer forum needs threads

[legendbtc]

I am pretty sure that you are correct on both counts, that the ATH is measured based on Bitstamp prices, which current ATH would be $4,980 (or maybe $4,979.90 or some variation of such), and I think that he has been using the UTC clock, too.

 New ATH (per stamp) would be $4979.xx ... We were so close, but then there's a drop and now we're sitting at $47xx

Anything can happen because of lot FUD when the price is at $4979. Maybe it will rise again before the Segwit date because this time it is possible for Bitcoin the pass the $5000 mark with unexpectedly.

[El duderino_]

END list, good luck!

...
10/10 bikerlezno*     LAST WINNER

it looks like lightning will strike twice at the same spot.

A new ATH within 2 hours? I doubt it.

I think Ted E Bare and HarryMMMM have a much better chance, or maybe Cryptoqueen.

Cryptoqueen would be crazy ....Thats my girlfriend and her Bday  ;-)

I find myself suddenly interested in the minutia of this lottery. 
Is the ath on bitstamp?
Is the day measured from 0000UTC?

CET time ...... start at 00.00 till 23.59
And Yes bitstamp the +- 4979.9 i think.....

[El duderino_]

END list, good luck!

19/9 rayx12 
24/9 kidbitter*
25/9 binaryreign*
26/9 player99
27/9 xhomerx10
28/9 khufuking
29/9 jhayzxenon*
30/9 yermom
01/10 teamtarp*
02/10 bitchick *
03/10 ^BuTcH^
04/10 minermannc
05/10 punisher1314*
06/10 jimbo Toronto*
07/10 player514*
09/10 Oinas*
10/10 bikerlezno*      LAST WINNER
11/10 ted e. bare
12/10 harrymmmm*
13/10 cryptoqueeen*
14/10 bitcoinaire*
15/10 ludwigvon*
16/10 BitchicksHusband*
17/10 shroomskit_disgrace
18/10 dakustaking76
19/10 birobob*
20/10 leowonderful
21/10 paashaas
22/10 cmacwiz*
23/10 spaceman_spiff_original*
24/10 colonel panic
25/10 soullyG
26/10 weltmaster*
27/10 vroom
28/10 entons*
29/10 roombot*
30/10 notme*
31/10 twocorn
01/11 YamashitaRen
02/11 orpington
03/11 Haciendo*
04/11 lilloboy
05/11 jojo69*
06/11 d_eddie*
07/11 empowering*
08/11 northyplole*
09/11 podyx*
10/11 u9y42*
11/11 starving_marvin
12/11 sirazimuth*
13/11 dotto*
14/11 hazukison*
15/11 organic*
16/11 Heater*
17/11 foxygoxy*
18/11 600watt
19/11 arriemoller
20/11 drbrockcoin*
21/11 icygreen*
22/11 rakessh
23/11 erisdiscordia
24/11 oblox*
25/11 mfort312*
26/11 globbo*
27/11 lfc_bitcoin
28/11 conspirosphere.tk*
29/11 rjclarck2000
30/11 last of the v8s *
01/12 newworldcoiner*
02/12 souspeed*
03/12 jaapgvk
04/12 sgk*
05/12 fluidjax
07/12 free-bit.co.in
08/12 imbatman
09/12 yonton
10/12 fragout*
11/12 itod
12/12 lontonbit*
13/12 CistaCista
14/12 cAPSLOCK
15/12 philivey
16/12 marcus_of_augustus*
17/12 mattimann
18/12 coincube*
21/12 2dogs
24/12 bones261*
25/12 mndan
26/12 karatma1*
28/12 deathangel*
30/12 erre
31/12 elwar
01/01/2018 lewis pirenne*
02/01/2018 addressed*
03/01/2018 bathy
05/01/2018 bitcoin psycho
06/01/2018 chowhan
07/01/2018 fabiorem*
18/01/2018 raja_mbz*
22/01/2018 _javi_
26/01/2018 kurious*
28/01/2018 steelboy*
29/01/2018 alcohodl
01/02/2018 cristitcm
18/02/2018 in the silence
20/04/2018 fractal universe*
15/03/2018 Carl85
15/05/2018 oldtimegin*
15/06/2018 samson
16/08/2018 samarkand

[Considered]

I choose 01/24/2018 micgooeens.
Is it true that bitcoin gold is not yet implementing replay protection? I hate forks. Not decentralized.

[JayJuanGee]

Also, for all those people that vouch for anarchy but do have Bitcoins.... Do you really think you would be able to keep hodling them when someone went to beat you to death until you gave your private keys to them... because they have the "means" and "freedom" to take it from you?

Someone stole 85 bitcoins from me, I let the localbitcoins community know what/who to watch out for. The only response the police gave me was seizing all of my computers/cell phones/money and investigating me for money laundering.

After over a year they finally returned everything to me (everything useless because I already had to replace everything plus who knows what they added to all of my devices).


My thought on preventing such a thing from happening is some sort of "reputation coin" where everyone has a reputation that can be looked up and anyone who has dealt with that person can report on them (like yelp/ebay). Anyone who is a fraud or violent will be punished by society due to nobody wanting to deal with them and taking precautions when they're around.

I don't know if there is any exact solution, Elwar.    Losing 85 bitcoins in one shot is a pretty big deal, and I have suffered some similar losses - but mine was through forced phone porting and simultaneously gaining access to two of my main e-mail accounts.  

Localbitcoins, is a tougher deal in terms of dealing directly with the public and also possibly gaining some exposure because these folks learn that you have coins and also might learn too much about your personal details and your possible bitcoin hodlings, and gosh we likely have to take additional precautions regarding how much we expose ourselves and our coins.. and even if it might be inconvenient to NOT store too many coins in such a way such as on local bitcoins or some of the wallets that we might use in our trading?  

There are attempts at plausible deniability, too, with some wallets, which maybe relates to how we store our coins, but these various devices and systems are still evolving, and if we want security, we have to learn how to employ these mechanisms in ways that maybe even makes it difficult for ourselves to get easy access to some aspects of our BTC stash.

In late August / early September, there were a couple of weeks in which I removed my localbtc advert because people were acting too crazy, and I was also feeling vulnerable in various regards because of how many coins I had in certain wallets and exchanges, including coins I had on local bitcoins and on my blockchain.info wallet.. and a lot of this additional vulnerability came from what seemed to be a sustained price increase that largely took us from the lower $1k prices to approaching $5k.. and then the small number of coins that I had in some locations, started to look like a lot of money.

So, keeping only a couple of coins in each location could be a partial solution, but it might not prevent nor discourage a more serious and determined attacker with guns and spotlights.. so what to do, what to do,?  and maybe even lessening local bitcoin's profile could be a solution, because even if you can increase your bitcoin holdings every year by trading at a premium, it might not be worth the risk to trade so much on local bitcoins, unless extensive precautions are taken?  

I certainly do not have a complete grasp on my various vulnerabilities and there are a couple of places that I likely maintain too many coins, a couple of exchanges, which could cause some problems on various levels whether it is just third party risk or if it is a kind of forced extortion risk (which is probably not a great likelihood, but it becomes a bit of a bigger likelihood when more bad people learn about bitcoin - and we have heard that some people kill over stealing an iphone, so if they can get a hold of 1 bitcoin, they might engage in worse actions to extort... and at what point are we safe?  And what are good measures to take? 

These are likely ongoing questions that we need to figure out including figuring out successorship issues too.. because it would be sad to accumulate a lot of coins, and then no one in the family gets access to them because they cannot figure out holding amounts nor passwords nor other security measures.. OMG.   

[ghandi]

Bitcoin makes me happy. Just saying

[Elwar]

I don't know if there is any exact solution, Elwar.    Losing 85 bitcoins in one shot is a pretty big deal, and I have suffered some similar losses - but mine was through forced phone porting and simultaneously gaining access to two of my main e-mail accounts.  

Well, it wasn't so much a hack as it was the old school way of a professional pick pocket and a crime syndicate targeting me with a team of people. I too was about to shut down my localbtc account due to some shady people starting to show up (up until then it had been just typical German dudes that wanted to get into Bitcoin).

They sent a couple of young guys first to feel me out. I would meet at the local McDonalds and sell coins there in a location directly across from a police station where I parked my car. Then the big boss and his lackey showed up a few weeks later asking for big money. We did a quick 5k euro trade that went fine and he asked if I could do 50k euro. I told him that was too much but could do lower. Eventually I decided I was going to shut down my localbtc account and I would just sell 30k/85BTC (enough to live on for the 2 more years I planned on living in Germany) worth to him.

He sent his lackey, there was a shady dude standing outside of McDonalds when I went in (didn't pay much attention to it then), as we were doing our trade I verified the currency wasn't fake, I transferred the BTC and put the money in my pocket ready to walk out to my car. I shook the guy's hand and as I went to walk toward the door he stood up to put his coat on asking me to hold his bag while he put it on. I obliged taking my hand out of my pocket while I did so, at that moment another guy came up behind me and switched the envelope of euros from my pocket with an envelope of counterfeit euros. Immediately after handing the bag back to the guy I put my hand back in my pocket and walked out confident that I was holding the money.

It wasn't until I got home that I noticed that the money was fake. I went back to the McDonalds to see their video footage, they just had a grainy picture that couldn't identify the guys but showed the guy reaching into my pocket. I knew the police couldn't/wouldn't do anything about it, I tried calling a private investigator but they just told me to call the police. I didn't feel like turning my life into being a victim and constantly worrying about getting it back. I cut my losses and moved on. I warned the folks on localbitcoins and some dude later caught one of the team. Tackled him as they all scattered after he caught him trying to rob him.

My reward for that whole ordeal was the German polizei showing up at my door at 5AM with a search warrant a few weeks later as well as them calling my employer (the US military) to tell them about it. They were likely monitoring the localbitcoins forum. Selling bitcoins is perfectly legal by private parties in Germany, I made sure to check that out before ever selling any.

[vroom]

Why is bitcoin such a volatility market?

Raging Bull: First study to find link between testosterone and stock market instability

because of the testosterone of course!

source: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-raging-bull-link-testosterone-stock.html

[bitserve]

I don't know if there is any exact solution, Elwar.    Losing 85 bitcoins in one shot is a pretty big deal, and I have suffered some similar losses - but mine was through forced phone porting and simultaneously gaining access to two of my main e-mail accounts.  

Well, it wasn't so much a hack as it was the old school way of a professional pick pocket and a crime syndicate targeting me with a team of people. I too was about to shut down my localbtc account due to some shady people starting to show up (up until then it had been just typical German dudes that wanted to get into Bitcoin).

[SNIP]

That's a very interesting story, Elwar. Thanks for sharing it with us... and sorry for your loss and your posterior bad experience with law enforcement.