Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cmacwiz]

I was wondering about replay attacks in general, and how any bitcoin clone from the past differentiates their transactions by coin such that nodal confusion doesn't get all messy. Can't people just make replay a possibility with any little shitty small fork  targeted at a specific wallet client? Did this happen in the past?

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[savetherainforest]

Isnt it the same guy of the "buy bitcoin" sign?

Nope...

The other guy looked like the "Trolololol" russian guy opera singer.





*edit(0):

[d_eddie]

Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

That's by design, for maximum disruption. A hostile takeover attempt by any reasonable standards.

I think splitting BTC-B2X will require mixing freshly mined coins into one's transactions. The landing chain of the transaction will be the chain where the fresh coins were mined. I still have to figure out how to do that.

There seems to be a different way invoving timelocked transactions - but I won't have a clue about this bit of magic until I research the matter. BTW, for the technically knowledgeable: pointers would be welcome  

[Odalv]

Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

That's by design, for maximum disruption. A hostile takeover attempt by any reasonable standards.

I think splitting BTC-B2X will require mixing freshly mined coins into one's transactions. The landing chain of the transaction will be the chain where the fresh coins were mined. I still have to figure out how to do that.

There seems to be a different way invoving timelocked transactions - but I won't have a clue about this bit of magic until I research the matter. BTW, for the technically knowledgeable: pointers would be welcome  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2237232.0

[bitserve]

Isnt it the same guy of the "buy bitcoin" sign?

Nope...

The other guy looked like the "Trolololol" russian guy opera singer.

LOL!

Btw, interesting tweet from CEO of Goldman Sachs:  https://www.coindesk.com/goldman-sachs-ceo-no-conclusion-bitcoin-yet/

Lloyd Blankfein
✔
@lloydblankfein

Still thinking about #Bitcoin. No conclusion - not endorsing/rejecting. Know that folks also were skeptical when paper money displaced gold.
8:09 PM - Oct 3, 2017

[becoin]

I think the declining BTC value of BCC indicates the market is pricing in the increasing odds of 2MB Bitcoin blocks becoming reality.

I think the declining BTC value of BCH (I suppose that's the altcoin you meant) indicates that a certain gang thinks their money is best burned supporting the next attack, so BCH purchases are being phased out.

Yep. Pretty much you sum it up.
RIP BCH. Hello B2X.
Next free money drop, please!

I'm not sure it is "Next free money drop, please!".
Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

Why should I care what is happening on B2X network or on any other Bitcoin [put-some-extra-word-here] network that is trying to mimic Bitcoin network? I simply take what they give me and dump it for bitcoins. Case solved.

[Torque]

I think the declining BTC value of BCH indicates the market is pricing in the increasing odds of 2MB Bitcoin blocks becoming reality.

Which actually makes zero sense, because in the minds of BCH supporters if 2MB blocks are just ok then 8MB blocks are even better. Which Bitcoin Cash already has, right now. And apparently they could give two shits about SegWit support, bug fixes or enhancements, replay protection, real mining support, merchant support, exchange support, real economic majority support, or anything else to support... ya' know, an entire $70B cryptocurrency ecosystem.  

But let's be real: their goal was never to create a 'better Bitcoin'. It was to hijack and derail Bitcoin. And until that goal is achieved, the forks will just keep a comin'.

[Odalv]

I think the declining BTC value of BCC indicates the market is pricing in the increasing odds of 2MB Bitcoin blocks becoming reality.

I think the declining BTC value of BCH (I suppose that's the altcoin you meant) indicates that a certain gang thinks their money is best burned supporting the next attack, so BCH purchases are being phased out.

Yep. Pretty much you sum it up.
RIP BCH. Hello B2X.
Next free money drop, please!

I'm not sure it is "Next free money drop, please!".
Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

Why should I care what is happening on B2X network or on any other Bitcoin [put-some-extra-word-here] network that is trying to mimic Bitcoin network? I simply take what they give me and dump it for bitcoins. Case solved.

They share same keys, same addresses. If you dump at B2X then they dump your BTC. (it is same network, the difference is small -> block size ) ... there is not replay protection

1) if you dump BTC then your transaction will apear on BTC2X and you lose BTC2X
2) if you dump BTC2X then there is a chance that your dump will be replayed on BTC

[d_eddie]

Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

That's by design, for maximum disruption. A hostile takeover attempt by any reasonable standards.

I think splitting BTC-B2X will require mixing freshly mined coins into one's transactions. The landing chain of the transaction will be the chain where the fresh coins were mined. I still have to figure out how to do that.

There seems to be a different way invoving timelocked transactions - but I won't have a clue about this bit of magic until I research the matter. BTW, for the technically knowledgeable: pointers would be welcome  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2237232.0

Ah! Fluidjax has one more trick to share. Thanks Odalv!

EDIT: oops - the 3BITxxxxxxxxx address in Fluidjax's example is valid on both chains. No worky.

[Odalv]

Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

That's by design, for maximum disruption. A hostile takeover attempt by any reasonable standards.

I think splitting BTC-B2X will require mixing freshly mined coins into one's transactions. The landing chain of the transaction will be the chain where the fresh coins were mined. I still have to figure out how to do that.

There seems to be a different way invoving timelocked transactions - but I won't have a clue about this bit of magic until I research the matter. BTW, for the technically knowledgeable: pointers would be welcome  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2237232.0

Ah! Fluidjax has one more trick to share. Thanks Odalv!

I'm not sure his trick is working :-) Be aware.

[d_eddie]

Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

That's by design, for maximum disruption. A hostile takeover attempt by any reasonable standards.

I think splitting BTC-B2X will require mixing freshly mined coins into one's transactions. The landing chain of the transaction will be the chain where the fresh coins were mined. I still have to figure out how to do that.

There seems to be a different way invoving timelocked transactions - but I won't have a clue about this bit of magic until I research the matter. BTW, for the technically knowledgeable: pointers would be welcome  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2237232.0

Ah! Fluidjax has one more trick to share. Thanks Odalv!

I'm not sure his trick is working :-) Be aware.

Yes, I noticed immediately and edited my post. Thanks for the heads up anyway!

[becoin]

I think the declining BTC value of BCC indicates the market is pricing in the increasing odds of 2MB Bitcoin blocks becoming reality.

I think the declining BTC value of BCH (I suppose that's the altcoin you meant) indicates that a certain gang thinks their money is best burned supporting the next attack, so BCH purchases are being phased out.

Yep. Pretty much you sum it up.
RIP BCH. Hello B2X.
Next free money drop, please!

I'm not sure it is "Next free money drop, please!".
Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

Why should I care what is happening on B2X network or on any other Bitcoin [put-some-extra-word-here] network that is trying to mimic Bitcoin network? I simply take what they give me and dump it for bitcoins. Case solved.

They share same keys, same addresses. If you dump at B2X then they dump your BTC. (it is same network, the difference is small -> block size ) ... there is not replay protection

1) if you dump BTC then your transaction will apear on BTC2X and you lose BTC2X
2) if you dump BTC2X then there is a chance that your dump will be replayed on BTC

You don't understand what you're talking about, do you? The bolded part above and the "small" difference remark is indicative you're clueless.

[Wexlike]

Mhhh, so I think the best way to split your B2X coins would be to create a transaction very early after the split to an address which you control. It will probably be included in a >1 MB block in the B2X chain, thus making it incompatible anymore on the real chain.

Is my thinking correct ?

Edit: Nvm, I think I am not correct. The transactions after that could still be replayed on both chains.  

What a boogie woogie without replay protection.. 

[Odalv]

You don't understand what you're talking about, do you? The bolded part above and the "small" difference remark is indicative you're clueless.

Do not bother.

[jbreher]

I think the declining BTC value of BCH indicates the market is pricing in the increasing odds of 2MB Bitcoin blocks becoming reality.

Most likely. There are two separate beliefs that could lead to this:
1) the belief that 2MB is good enough, thereby reducing the advantage of 8MB; and
2) the belief that the sum of the value of S1X and the value of S2X at time = t0+ will be greater than that of the SonlyX at t=0- (much like the BCH split resulted previously in a larger aggregate value).

I think the declining BTC value of BCH (I suppose that's the altcoin you meant) indicates that a certain gang thinks their money is best burned supporting the next attack, so BCH purchases are being phased out.

I doubt it, but I must admit it is plausible.

[Odalv]

Mhhh, so I think the best way to split your B2X coins would be to create a transaction very early after the split to an address which you control. It will probably be included in a >1 MB block in the B2X chain, thus making it incompatible anymore on the real chain.

Is my thinking correct ?

Edit: Nvm, I think I am not correct. The transactions after that could still be replayed on both chains. 

With 0 BTC fee, but you will have to wait for B2X confirmed and BTC not (you will have to make new transaction and add FEE in BTC transaction)

[becoin]

What a boogie woogie without replay protection.. 

The lack of replay protection would be a major problem for the B2X network, not for BTC!

[elite3000]

I think the declining BTC value of BCC indicates the market is pricing in the increasing odds of 2MB Bitcoin blocks becoming reality.

I think the declining BTC value of BCH (I suppose that's the altcoin you meant) indicates that a certain gang thinks their money is best burned supporting the next attack, so BCH purchases are being phased out.

Yep. Pretty much you sum it up.
RIP BCH. Hello B2X.
Next free money drop, please!

I'm not sure it is "Next free money drop, please!".
Your BTC transaction will be replayed on BTC2X.

Why should I care what is happening on B2X network or on any other Bitcoin [put-some-extra-word-here] network that is trying to mimic Bitcoin network? I simply take what they give me and dump it for bitcoins. Case solved.

They share same keys, same addresses. If you dump at B2X then they dump your BTC. (it is same network, the difference is small -> block size ) ... there is not replay protection

1) if you dump BTC then your transaction will apear on BTC2X and you lose BTC2X
2) if you dump BTC2X then there is a chance that your dump will be replayed on BTC

Then it is ever worth the risk of claiming the forkcoins

Weren't the chains supposed to be separated after the fork day

This is a bit confusing

[Meuh6879]

Like i said :

- Bitcoin XT (try to enforce 8Mb)
- Bitcoin Classic  (try to enforce 8Mb & XTHIN)
- Bitcoin BU (try to enforce infinite & XTHIN)
- Bitcoin NYA (try to enforce 8Mb of weight ... the Segwit 2Mb block size)

  We don't need replay ... because they already try from a very long time.
but, without replay, no airdrop ...  

[jbreher]

empirical evidence pretty much shows that the 2x part of segwit2x is not really justified

Bullshit. The vision is the entire world employing Bitcoin. How are we going to get there? Nobody can spend Bitcoin if they don't already have Bitcoin. Have you thought about the limit of adoption even assuming the desire was there? How long will it take to onboard the world?

Currently it would take over 30 years to send each person on earth a single Bitcoin transaction. Think about that.

Lightning does nothing to alleviate that.
Segwit does nothing to alleviate that.
Schnorr sigs does nothing to alleviate that.

The only metric that matters in this is transaction throughput - pure and simple. To a first order approximation (i.e. with already minimal-size transactions), this is directly and linearly proportional to block size.

True, 2X is insufficient. As is 8X. But they are steps in the right direction. The only direction that can possibly get us to our goal. Larger blocks are a requirement for Bitcoin to be meaningful to humanity as a whole.