Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cAPSLOCK]

What a surprise, imaginary, valueless tokens can be sent over the internet but real world goods that actually do have value can't be.  Who would have guessed you cannot send silver or gold, a cheeseburger, or a house over the internet, but a Goldman Sachs mortgage backed security, US dollar, or bitcoin can be?

By your "logic" email is also valueless.

[realr0ach]

Philosophically, all determination of "personal value" or "collective value" for anything is completely in the mind. Whether something valued collectively by humans is tangible or intangible, or intrinsic or not, is inconsequential. It's all based on shared belief.

False.  In order for something to be a store of value, it's required to have some type of intrinsic value to humans that can't simply fall out of fashion at the drop of a hat.  For instance, if one is trying to transfer generational wealth from grandparent to heirs over a 50 year timespan or so, the instrument you're using is required to still be needed on the other end of that timeline.  You're not able to just make stupid gambles with such things.

There is no single bulletproof solution to this, so this is why people tend to hedge it out over the various best options that are not subject to decay or entropy for human-level timespans, or fashion, which are typically things like physical commodity currency (silver and gold), land, or some type of well-entrenched business.  Something resembling an estate in other words.  An estate - or store of value because they're highly related - cannot be built upon fashion, gimmicks, short lived trends, or artificial scarcity.

Just like antique copies of MAD magazine do not function as a store of value to humans even though they're pseudo-finite in nature just like bitcoin, bitcoin does not function as a store of value either because it's virtually the exact same dynamic as that example.  Technically, it's possible you could get lucky and get away with using MAD magazines as a store of value and instrument to pass on generational wealth...over a short period of time, but in the long run, you're guaranteed to be shooting yourself in the face.

As for things like metals, the logic of my argument dictates that in an actual free market, the market cap of silver and gold would likely flip with one another, because the intrinsic value to humans of silver has vastly increased in recent times, while gold has not.  To be the best store of value requires having the best real world use cases for humans while still having all other required traits of money like fungibility after all.  We would use something like oil as money over both if possible due to this, but it's just not possible to do things like remove counterparty risk with oil, or portability and other issues, so metals are still king.  The only question is if gold will remain king over silver or not.

[cAPSLOCK]

One of the many reasons I like XMR: https://moneroblocks.info/richlist
Privacy, in general, is extremely undervalued.

And yet any goods/services bought with XMR that are shipped can still be tracked to shipper or receiver. Somewhat undermining the purpose, yeah?

Monero never promises to make shipping invisible, correct.  It just makes what you do with your MONEY private.

[Anon136]

One of the many reasons I like XMR: https://moneroblocks.info/richlist
Privacy, in general, is extremely undervalued.

And yet any goods/services bought with XMR that are shipped can still be tracked to shipper or receiver. Somewhat undermining the purpose, yeah?

You don't have to give your real name. And you can have it delivered to somewhere other than your home address. Or you could make a mail pool with other people. And if you really want to go all out you can use one or several remailers. And just because a package is tracked doesn't mean the one doing the tracking knows what is inside the box. But you are right, we live in an imperfect world, so we shouldn't even make any effort to improve the situation at all.

[Torque]

Just like antique copies of MAD magazine do not function as a store of value to humans even though they're pseudo-finite in nature just like bitcoin, bitcoin does not function as a store of value either because it's virtually the exact same dynamic as that example.  Technically, it's possible you could get lucky and get away with using MAD magazines as a store of value and instrument to pass on generational wealth...over a short period of time, but in the long run, you're guaranteed to be shooting yourself in the face.

Bad example.

Perhaps you meant antique copies of Superman #1 comic. EXCELLENT fkn store of value. And I can pass it along to my great-grandchildren.

[Torque]

One of the many reasons I like XMR: https://moneroblocks.info/richlist
Privacy, in general, is extremely undervalued.

And yet any goods/services bought with XMR that are shipped can still be tracked to shipper or receiver. Somewhat undermining the purpose, yeah?

You don't have to give your real name. And you can have it delivered to somewhere other than your home address. Or you could make a mail pool with other people. And if you really want to go all out you can use one or several remailers. And just because a package is tracked doesn't mean the one doing the tracking knows what is inside the box. But you are right, we live in an imperfect world, so we shouldn't even make any effort to improve the situation at all.

Bbut... but... 98% of XMR lovers aren't even buying anything with their moneros. Just trading back and forth for more fiat dollars. So in the grand scheme does it matter? Lol

Just playin' devils advocate, of course. 

[kurious]

(snip) roach you remind me of Bobby Fisher with your obsession.     

I stayed in Iceland in a friend's place while it was between rentals once, about twelve years ago.  He called while I was staying and asked me to show some guy around who was interested in renting it.

An old, slightly shambling, bearded American turned up and I didn't realise but another Icelandic friend with me that afternoon sussed it immediately, took me aside and whispered 'it's Bobby fucking Fisher' (of course he was pretty well-known there). 

Very weird, he wasn't really friendly and was a little nervy and mumbled kind of obsessively about the ceiling lighting, which he obviously was not happy with.  I talked and showed him around, but there seemed little point in trying to ask him about his career, since we were supposed to be helping rent the place out and he really didn't look like he wanted to engage in talking much. Very odd, sort of sad, too - given who he was.

[Torque]

An old, slightly shambling, bearded American turned up and I didn't realise but another Icelandic friend with me that afternoon sussed it immediately, took me aside and whispered 'it's Bobby fucking Fisher' (of course he was pretty well-known there).  

Is this the guy you saw?

[Raja_MBZ]

Bitcoin still the most decentralized thing in crypto:

% of supply owned by the top 100 accounts, standouts:
- Bitcoin 19%
- Ethereum 35%
- Ripple 98%
- Bitcoin Cash 25%
- Stellar 95%
- IOTA 62%
- NEO 70%

Source: https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/

Gotta get rid of my Stellars for sure.

What about Litecoin? I would guess it is probably even less centralized...

Nope, for Litecoin, percentage of supply owned by the top 100 addresses = 45%.

Interesting... Who would have said...

Check it out:

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-litecoin-addresses.html

EDIT: ...and the top player seems very much active: https://bitinfocharts.com/litecoin/address/LTU2cds4aSdXFip9sV4gXphnhxGQjgfjmg

One of the many reasons I like XMR: https://moneroblocks.info/richlist
Privacy, in general, is extremely undervalued.

...and what if that percentage is above 50% in the case of Monero? Litecoin's percentage came as a surprise, and I'd not be surprised if there's a hell lot of XMR owned by top 10 to 100 addresses.

[kurious]

An old, slightly shambling, bearded American turned up and I didn't realise but another Icelandic friend with me that afternoon sussed it immediately, took me aside and whispered 'it's Bobby fucking Fisher' (of course he was pretty well-known there).  

Is this the guy you saw?

The one on the right looks like the guy I remember, if a little less well-trimmed on the beard front. I can't say for sure now and I would not have recognised him them, although of course I was aware of his chess and what a stellar name he once was - he was certainly intense and sharp-eyed.  I don't have any doubt though, and given he was effectively exiled there and it is a very tiny population it's not that incredible to have crossed his path - just wish he'd been the kind who would have chatted and been personable so I had a better story to tell.  He didn't rent the flat in the end.

[kurious]

An old, slightly shambling, bearded American turned up and I didn't realise but another Icelandic friend with me that afternoon sussed it immediately, took me aside and whispered 'it's Bobby fucking Fisher' (of course he was pretty well-known there).  

Is this the guy you saw?

Ah - yep - that is more like it, yep.  Different hat, but I'd pick this one in an identity parade.

[kurious]

...and what if that percentage is above 50% in the case of Monero? Litecoin's percentage came as a surprise, and I'd not be surprised if there's a hell lot of XMR owned by top 10 to 100 addresses.

We won't ever know who had, or has XMR.  But it's no issue for me, I lost all the ones I once had in an unfortunate boating accident.

[Toxic2040]

Interactive price estimator from Forbes if you havent seen it yet. Crude but fun to mess with.
https://dashboards.trefis.com/no-login-required/s9TydlCB?fromforbesandarticle=can-bitcoin-cross-15000-by-the-end-of-the-year


Too nice a day to be looking at charts..see you all later.

p.s. Its Fischer

[kurious]

Too nice a day to be looking at charts..see you all later.

p.s. Its Fischer

Of course, I stand corrected, Sir. Followed OP and should have spotted it. 

[bitserve]

...and what if that percentage is above 50% in the case of Monero? Litecoin's percentage came as a surprise, and I'd not be surprised if there's a hell lot of XMR owned by top 10 to 100 addresses.

We won't ever know who had, or has XMR.  But it's no issue for me, I lost all the ones I once had in an unfortunate boating accident.

The biggest problem about those boating accidents is that if you ever manage to recover them from the bottom of sea, the tax on it would be even more ridiculous than the accident itself. At least with Spanish tax rules..... donno if that's the case in other countries.

If you never manage to recover and convert them to (banking) fiat/registered assets (such as real estate, cars, etc) then everything is fine...

[realr0ach]

(snip) roach you remind me of Bobby Fisher with your obsession.     

And what was Bobby Fischer wrong about?  Absolutely nothing.

[realr0ach]

As for this guy's quote, he claims it's your own fault if your nation is flooded with the evil cult known as Jews, but I think that's horribly off-base.  If their evil cult had already taken over before you're even born, you don't have much options except try to get rid of them afterwards:

[Karartma1]

Roach, please, we got it. It's the Jews! Its' always been them. Can we please move along?
thanks

By the way, in today's world I believe the greatest store and value is my brain if I am able to keep it functioning. I can store whatever I want in it. Did anybody said passphrases?

[STT]

Bobby Fishers mother was Jewish (also likely his father) and so was he, that was the point I was making.  The problems he attributed as some kind of conspiracy was just a poor way of dealing with his own internal conflicts.  I presume it was easier for him to shadow box with this mythical enemy then beat himself up over his own failings.  It doesnt take much to realise both entities were the same, himself.
He was a genius and he had massive flaws along with it



Heres a better quote, generally true and more applicable to bitcoin and modern forex market moves long term I think

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_J._Hanlon
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/3635401/Bobby-Fischers-final-bizarre-act.html

[Robin,Hood]

Bitcoin still the most decentralized thing in crypto:

% of supply owned by the top 100 accounts, standouts:
- Bitcoin 19%
- Ethereum 35%
- Ripple 98%
- Bitcoin Cash 25%
- Stellar 95%
- IOTA 62%
- NEO 70%

Source: https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/

Gotta get rid of my Stellars for sure.

What about Litecoin? I would guess it is probably even less centralized...

Nope, for Litecoin, percentage of supply owned by the top 100 addresses = 45%.

Interesting... Who would have said...

Check it out:

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-litecoin-addresses.html

EDIT: ...and the top player seems very much active: https://bitinfocharts.com/litecoin/address/LTU2cds4aSdXFip9sV4gXphnhxGQjgfjmg

One of the many reasons I like XMR: https://moneroblocks.info/richlist
Privacy, in general, is extremely undervalued.

...and what if that percentage is above 50% in the case of Monero? Litecoin's percentage came as a surprise, and I'd not be surprised if there's a hell lot of XMR owned by top 10 to 100 addresses.

Common sense tells that Monero is certainly not very well distributed because of the huge amount of coins generated in a relative short time.
https://i.imgur.com/S4qe7OY.png