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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26387635 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
JayJuanGee
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February 27, 2014, 09:27:09 AM
 #98441


$2 million in profit in the current fiscal year? And all the hassle, risk and aggravation? Remind me never to go into the Bitcoin business.

That document is evidence of attempted fraud. Their profit was much higher than 2 million but Mark lost much much more. The majority of new capital was to cover for Karpeles' blunders.  Mark is not just out of business now. He's going to jail.


WE still do NOT know whether he did anything illegal.



Surely if we take the story at face value about the theft of the coins then it becomes fraud the moment the loss of the coins is discovered if trading is allowed to continue.  That would mean from that this point in time that people were knowingly being allowed to buy coins that don't exist.  This of course would raise the question of whether trading stopped on discovery of this or later on.  Up until that point it would be incompetence, if trading continues once it's realised that there's no coins then doesn't it become a crime?


Actually, it may be a crime if there were banking regulations, but if there was NO intent to defraud investors, then how could that be a crime?  








 
kkaspar
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February 27, 2014, 09:27:27 AM
 #98442

To a) : Would you agree with me that in our current system as you get wealthier it becomes easier to increase that wealth even more?
You are also comparing apples to oranges. The current value increase is price discovery and not deflation. Deflation will happen once this has stabilized
I agree that this is an general concept that you can more easily increase wealth when you have wealth. But with the nature of bitcoin it's a lot worse.
Whether you call it price discovery or deflation, the general idea is the same. Bitcoin is called a currency, with it's main value should be in transferring value. But the speed of deflation is just too high to build any stability. It was built so it would be attractive as an investment. It was built so people would buy in hopes of selling higher. This system was never meant to find stability, but to find increasing amount of users. That is the reason why bitcoin is compared to an pyramid scheme, because it's in a constant hunger of needing new adopters.

b) I'm not sure what you mean here. If bitcoin finds mass adoption prices won't fluctuate as much.
Because bitcoin is deflationary the incentive to spend it is lower. It will be interesting to see how that plays out on a larger scale if
bitcoin is ever to become mainstream
The increasing market cap won't help with stability much. It will only attract players with deeper pockets and more knowledge on how to play the unregulated market for personal gain.
Only thing that would create stability would be if bitcoin would be unattractive as an investment, but then all the get-rich-quick part of the community would walk. Most of the people aren't here because they find bitcoin to be useful in transfer of value. They are here because they want to invest into bitcoin so that their wealth will increase.
And that is the fundamental flaw in bitcoin. Money should never be attractive as an investment. It could work with 1% a year deflation, but with bitcoin the deflation rate is and will be ridiculous with its future plan with inflow of new coins.


c) I've told you before that Proof of Work is a robust way of building consensus in such an anonymous probabilistic consensus
Bitcoin is a protocol. If a better method comes along that is guaranteed to work it can be implemented trivially.

Proof-of-Stake is already better and could be implemented but there is no interest in doing that because even the very small decrease in deflation that is created, will put most people off. Most here want as much deflation as possible.
When looking at the past developments and the current discussions on possible developments, then I don't see any hope for important changes.

People need to wrap their head around the fact that bitcoin is what the majority of miners use as a protocol.
Anything can be changed, yes this includes the 21 million cap. If everyone adopts a protocol that changes this then
thats that. If some don't agree with this you'd fork bitcoin, effectively creating a new altcoin.
I myself find it funny that bitcoin is called as a protocol to some. Protocol needs to be something neutral without increasing unit price. You don't see e-mail being created in a way where the new adopters have to fill the pockets of the old adopters to join the game. If e-mail would have been created in this way, then people would have found a workaround to create an alternative where everyone can get a fair chance in using this protocol.
These are the wet dreams of bitcoin adopters, that everyone will start using bitcoin and will start filling their pockets in the process. But the world doesn't work like that. There are smart enough people to create alternatives, so people don't have to feed the leeches to use a piece of technology.

Anyway, I like your post because you explained yourself in a calm and constructive manner. I still can't see how bitcoin could survive very long though.
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February 27, 2014, 09:34:02 AM
 #98443

All we need now is some hapless bears to dump and start the bull shark feeding frenzy. Keep spreading FUD. The trap is set. Now all we need is bait.
Now I'm not being bearish here but I think it's almost a certainty that the current chart is overbought and that we need to retest some level around 500 to 'complete' the chart. Unfortunately, this might not happen until some bears come along and help it happen with FUD. At that point, when the FUD is driving it down and it's reached 500, the FUD might be so strong you might no longer think 'oh 500 the excellent buying opportunity I've been waiting for". You might instead think that it's going to 400 or even that 400 was not the bottom after all and that it's going to even lower levels. Then suddenly the price will rebound back to 600 and you'll be left with no coins, feeling like an idiot.

I've learned a lot from people like you, TERA.  I used to think that TA was voodoo science no better than a coin toss. Now I see how the price wave cycles drive the news/FUD as much as the news/FUD drives the price.  It's quite fascinating, really. 

+1.  Fundamental analysis works better for investing but TA works better for trading.
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February 27, 2014, 09:41:01 AM
 #98444

Just a quick reminder for what´s about to come in the media in the next days.

Bitcoin is a trademark held by MtGox!

If MtGox get´s broke - Bitcoin get´s
If MtGox did get hacked - Bitcoin did
......

What?  Huh

Same logic....
If fonzie talks junk, Henry Winkler talks junk.
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February 27, 2014, 09:42:19 AM
 #98445


That document is evidence of attempted fraud. Their profit was much higher than 2 million but Mark lost much much more. The majority of new capital was to cover for Karpeles' blunders.  Mark is not just out of business now. He's going to jail.

WE still do NOT know whether he did anything illegal.
 
[/quote

I'm not certain enough to vote to convict if I was on a jury or even enough to indict if I was on a grand jury, but I am certain enough to make investment decisions.
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February 27, 2014, 09:44:53 AM
 #98446

Hey guys, I love to read all this, but BTC-E is on the move. Houbi is set to follow I think. Been waiting for like 8 hours for this to start moving again...
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February 27, 2014, 09:50:07 AM
 #98447

wow bitcoinbuilder looks crazy. 500+ btc @ 0.065  Roll Eyes
billyjoeallen
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February 27, 2014, 09:50:44 AM
 #98448

Hey guys, I love to read all this, but BTC-E is on the move. Houbi is set to follow I think. Been waiting for like 8 hours for this to start moving again...

Someone just got a few bites of bear meat. ER, I mean Gox! Senator BitBan! SELL SELL SELL!
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February 27, 2014, 09:51:17 AM
 #98449

Ready for this, guys? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=490029.msg5402576#msg5402576
TERA
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February 27, 2014, 09:51:42 AM
 #98450

wow bitcoinbuilder looks crazy. 500+ btc @ 0.065  Roll Eyes
It's actually just 500 GOXcoins, which is worth 13btc at that price.
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February 27, 2014, 09:51:58 AM
 #98451

I'm personnaly a bit trained into charting analyze and following bitcoin community for ~2years but as some of you are way more experienced into bitcoin world I would like to get your point on this :

To summarize my thoughts :
- We had plenty of cascading bad news (mainly related to mtgox),
- lots of relay on mainstream press showing bad sides of (current)-bitcoin-ecosystem,
- the malleability glitch is easy to be reported as "bug into bitcoin itseft" for non initiated people.

Even with this situation price fell "only" to 500$ and with big volumes. Except a main problem on bitcoin protocol itseft, I can't imagine worst than oldest/biggest marketplace falling - mtgox, used to be the leader and still was for medias).

From looking at recent events and charts I would presume that real floor is 500, would you ?
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February 27, 2014, 09:54:17 AM
 #98452

wow bitcoinbuilder looks crazy. 500+ btc @ 0.065  Roll Eyes
It's actually just 500 GOXcoins, which is worth 13btc at that price.

Its about 32 BTC Wink
Peter R
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February 27, 2014, 09:55:28 AM
 #98453


I'm not following.  Would you care to put into plain words what you are implying here?
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February 27, 2014, 09:58:37 AM
 #98454

wow bitcoinbuilder looks crazy. 500+ btc @ 0.065  Roll Eyes

Market is pricing in 93.5% probability that GoxCoins are unrecoverable.
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February 27, 2014, 09:58:50 AM
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I'm not following.  Would you care to put into plain words what you are implying here?
+1
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February 27, 2014, 10:00:42 AM
 #98456

Please dont quote obv troll please
A little respect for my ignor list Smiley

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February 27, 2014, 10:03:15 AM
 #98457

Any predictions on when the breakout is going to come and is it going to be up or down ?
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February 27, 2014, 10:05:24 AM
 #98458

Any predictions on when the breakout is going to come and is it going to be up or down ?
Short term breakout down. Then midterm breakout up.
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February 27, 2014, 10:07:37 AM
 #98459

Any predictions on when the breakout is going to come and is it going to be up or down ?
Short term breakout down. Then midterm breakout up.

And that is a FACT
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February 27, 2014, 10:09:32 AM
 #98460

Any predictions on when the breakout is going to come and is it going to be up or down ?
Short term breakout down. Then midterm breakout up.

And that is a FACT

ShroomsKit_Disgracem is that a question or a statement ?
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