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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26339365 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (170 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
ChartBuddy
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April 05, 2015, 06:58:42 AM

Coin
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It is a common myth that Bitcoin is ruled by a majority of miners. This is not true. Bitcoin miners "vote" on the ordering of transactions, but that's all they do. They can't vote to change the network rules.
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DaRude
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April 05, 2015, 07:20:09 AM

Pretty sure that 99% doesn't want to fork just to delay the halfing.

That is why the "proof" that "a majoritary mining cartel can't change the protocol" is subjective.

I don't know whether the miners will try to delay the halving (or do some other "sacrilege").  But, if they were to try, my estimate is that less than 10% of the bitcoiners would be furiously opposed to the halving delay, the other 90% will not care, and only the 4-5 miners with 60% of the hashpower will be in favor.  Then these miners will do it anyway; and 99.9% of the bitcoiners will accept the change, including most of those who swore that they would abandon bitcoin if that happened. Because their greed will speak louder than their ideology.

Bitcoiners are incredibly easy to fool if they are told what they want to hear.  They believe that adoption is booming, that the exponential price trend is built-in, that Satoshi was an anarcho-libertarian, that governments cannot stop bitcoin, that Greece may adopt it, that the banks are secretly investing in it, that sidechains will solve all problems of the protocol, that Wall Street whales are holding the price down, that China is irrelevant, that Willy created the last bubble...  

If Antonopoulos tells everybody that postponing the halving will not delay the Apotheosis, and Roger Ver posts a video where he promises that it will be the first and last change to the protocol, and Gavin tweets that he supports the change, and Coindesk and Bloomberg and Forbes and the WSJ assert that it will be a positive development for bitcoin, then 90% of the bitcoiners will believe that it is a good thing, and the rest will pretend to believe it in order to preserve the value of their coins.  Tongue

Huh  Huh so there's incentive for miners to delay the halving, and if they decide to do it they will do it anyway and be successful  Roll Eyes

Do you seriously think that there's over a 50% chance that the halving will be delayed??
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April 05, 2015, 07:32:14 AM

Pretty sure that 99% doesn't want to fork just to delay the halfing.

That is why the "proof" that "a majoritary mining cartel can't change the protocol" is subjective.

I don't know whether the miners will try to delay the halving (or do some other "sacrilege").  But, if they were to try, my estimate is that less than 10% of the bitcoiners would be furiously opposed to the halving delay, the other 90% will not care, and only the 4-5 miners with 60% of the hashpower will be in favor.  Then these miners will do it anyway; and 99.9% of the bitcoiners will accept the change, including most of those who swore that they would abandon bitcoin if that happened. Because their greed will speak louder than their ideology.

Bitcoiners are incredibly easy to fool if they are told what they want to hear.  They believe that adoption is booming, that the exponential price trend is built-in, that Satoshi was an anarcho-libertarian, that governments cannot stop bitcoin, that Greece may adopt it, that the banks are secretly investing in it, that sidechains will solve all problems of the protocol, that Wall Street whales are holding the price down, that China is irrelevant, that Willy created the last bubble...  

If Antonopoulos tells everybody that postponing the halving will not delay the Apotheosis, and Roger Ver posts a video where he promises that it will be the first and last change to the protocol, and Gavin tweets that he supports the change, and Coindesk and Bloomberg and Forbes and the WSJ assert that it will be a positive development for bitcoin, then 90% of the bitcoiners will believe that it is a good thing, and the rest will pretend to believe it in order to preserve the value of their coins.  Tongue

yeah, if you had half a clue about the hardcore of bitcoiners (none you mention) you'd be more worried about protecting your own assets than spending time spouting arrant nonsense, bordering on slander, on backwater threads of bitcoin forums ... you've had a pretty easy ride so far trolfi but the clock is ticking friend.
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April 05, 2015, 07:58:41 AM

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April 05, 2015, 08:14:20 AM

Do you seriously think that there's over a 50% chance that the halving will be delayed??

No, I do not know whether the top miners will try it, or any other "little abuse".  I believe that they could -- not just in theory, but even taking into account the possible reactions of the community.

Those 4-5 miners would postpone the halving to sell twice as many coins at less than a quarter the price?  The halving is priced in and if it doesn't happen there will be a crash. Everybody knows this.

Who says that it will be a quarter of the price? 

The past halvings did not have a visible effect on the price.  So why would a delay in the halving have any effect -- unless the ideologues go out screaming "BITCOIN IS WORTHLESS" to the world?  Now they wouldn't do that, right -- because "destroying the value of the thing you sell is just bad business."

The ideologues would react the same way they have reacted to previous bad news, like the MtGOX collapse, the confiscation and sale of the SilkRoad coins, the China bans, etc.: they will say that bitcoin is "antifragile" and will survive this third fork like it survived the previous two, or even that the change is "good for bitcoin".

In fact, that fork would probably be less traumatic than the previous two, because it would be deliberate rather than an unexpected bug.

There is nothing magical about the current halving schedule.  Satoshi could have just as well picked a schedule that skipped 2016 and antecipated the following halvings, and it would have been just as good (or just as bad) as the current one.  If he had done that, and we were discussing the opposite change, I am sure the objections would be the same...

yeah, if you had half a clue about the hardcore of bitcoiners (none you mention) you'd be more worried about protecting your own assets than spending time spouting arrant nonsense, bordering on slander, on backwater threads of bitcoin forums ... you've had a pretty easy ride so far trolfi but the clock is ticking friend.

Wait, are you accusing me of slander?  Of whom exactly? 

Or is that a threat, "stop warning people about the problems of bitcoin, or else"?




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April 05, 2015, 08:24:35 AM

Do you seriously think that there's over a 50% chance that the halving will be delayed??

No, I do not know whether the top miners will try it, or any other "little abuse".  I believe that they could -- not just in theory, but even taking into account the possible reactions of the community.

Those 4-5 miners would postpone the halving to sell twice as many coins at less than a quarter the price?  The halving is priced in and if it doesn't happen there will be a crash. Everybody knows this.

Who says that it will be a quarter of the price? 

The past halvings did not have a visible effect on the price.  So why would a delay in the halving have any effect -- unless the ideologues go out screaming "BITCOIN IS WORTHLESS" to the world?  Now they wouldn't do that, right -- because "destroying the value of the thing you sell is just bad business."

The ideologues would react the same way they have reacted to previous bad news, like the MtGOX collapse, the confiscation and sale of the SilkRoad coins, the China bans, etc.: they will say that bitcoin is "antifragile" and will survive this third fork like it survived the previous two, or even that the change is "good for bitcoin".

In fact, that fork would probably be less traumatic than the previous two, because it would be deliberate rather than an unexpected bug.

There is nothing magical about the current halving schedule.  Satoshi could have just as well picked a schedule that skipped 2016 and antecipated the following halvings, and it would have been just as good (or just as bad) as the current one.  If he had done that, and we were discussing the opposite change, I am sure the objections would be the same...

yeah, if you had half a clue about the hardcore of bitcoiners (none you mention) you'd be more worried about protecting your own assets than spending time spouting arrant nonsense, bordering on slander, on backwater threads of bitcoin forums ... you've had a pretty easy ride so far trolfi but the clock is ticking friend.

Wait, are you accusing me of slander?  Of whom exactly? 

Or is that a threat, "stop warning people about the problems of bitcoin, or else"?

You are really scraping the barrel now Stolfi.

You cannot find any genuine reason why bitcoin will fail in its current implementation. Solution? Find a hypothetical problem by changing the protocol. Lol.

You need to get out more.
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April 05, 2015, 08:25:53 AM

Oh dear, dear.
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April 05, 2015, 08:46:10 AM

Oh dear, dear.

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April 05, 2015, 08:58:40 AM

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April 05, 2015, 09:11:26 AM

mining cartels are not done yet to squeeze every dollar out of btc, you don't let go your golden chicken that easily, this will be a long painful drop to 0.
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April 05, 2015, 09:58:43 AM

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April 05, 2015, 10:11:29 AM

mining cartels are not done yet to squeeze every dollar out of btc, you don't let go your golden chicken that easily, this will be a long painful drop to 0.

Did I misunderstood or you said something that impossible is possible someday???
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April 05, 2015, 10:21:28 AM

stop

quoting

stolfi
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April 05, 2015, 10:51:29 AM

Easter pump! 
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April 05, 2015, 10:55:32 AM

Easter pump! 

Lol, was about to say that Cheesy
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April 05, 2015, 10:55:42 AM

i think everyone's visiting family / busy with easter ... seriously i've never seen 15 minute gaps of time on finex go by with 0 sales and 0 buys before ... looks like we'll go ahead and push up while nobody is paying attention though ... because ... why not ... right ? ... it'll be easy with total lack of selling resistance other than bots ...



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April 05, 2015, 10:56:57 AM

Jesus rose from the dead on this day didn't he?

Nice little pump, maybe 260 by the end of the day Wink
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April 05, 2015, 10:58:14 AM

The Chinese dont give a fuck about easter.
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April 05, 2015, 10:58:43 AM

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April 05, 2015, 10:59:01 AM

toilet back, pump ends...
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