Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[derpinheimer]

...
Does this mean that the network becomes more cost-effective to operate as it grows?  
...

It means that the network is becoming cheaper to attack, basically. Satoshi was working from the assumption that the cost of mining will approach the price of the coins mined. If the TX fees don't increase substantially when block reward is halved, interesting stuff will happen: Hangers full of mining gear will suddenly become unprofitable to mine with -> available dirt-cheap for more creative use, like 51% attack.

Doesn't this seem like fearmongering? In a year, who knows what these charts will be showing..

Worrying about mining being unprofitable in a years time is silly.

We heard the same stuff before the first halving. Miners would stop and the difficulty would be so difficult that it would never adjust, blocks would take years to complete.

It was all true. Bitcoin ended that day. The bears won.

I must not have been wearing my tinfoil hat that day - the fed's zapped that memory out of me! Bastards; now they're offloading more of their coins on us. That's why these bears are here! They were wearing the tinfoil hats, and are protecting us!
That explains all of the confusion. Elwar, you and me.. we make a great team.

Let's let the rest of the world know what really happened November 28th, 2012

[1714306655]

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[1714306655]

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[1714306655]

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[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Sitarow]

[rolling]

First trade is showing up on http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote now

I now hold Bitcoin in my Roth IRA, purchased from Ameritrade.
No different than buying any other stock. (OK, pink sheets, so you must use limit orders, but you get the idea.)

I've waited years for this day! Can't wait to see what happens next.
I miiiiight have a bit of a bullish bias here ;-)

Is this with or rather through a self-funded roth ira? Sorry, I'm not overly familiar and just wanted to pick your brains a bit. This seems, well frankly, like an amazing vehicle for preserving growth.
So, if I understand correctly, you would have deposited up to $5500 for the year of contributions or how ever little; then you just bought the individual shares.

The money you've spent on this has already been taxed. So, assuming it is a qualified withdrawal; if you bought basically a coin at $420, if at the time it is withdrawn, the coin/share is now worth $1,000; you do not pay taxes on that $580 increase in value? And likewise; if the coin is worth say $32,000... you wouldn't pay tax on that additionally $31,000 in appreciation assuming it's a valid withdrawal?

That seems almost to good to be true lol. How is this not amazing!? lol?

To my knowledge, that is correct. (Consult your own accountant, blahblahblah disclaimer).

It is why I have been waiting for this day for years.
Anyone with retirement funds can now buy Bitcoin.

The faucet JUST opened, and the supply is not yet even a dribble.

It is simply unbelievable that $133.7 could be used to set an all time high.
I so badly wish it was represented on the charts.

It's showing 133.70 now. EDIT: Make that $175.00.

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

[hdbuck]

First trade is showing up on http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote now

I now hold Bitcoin in my Roth IRA, purchased from Ameritrade.
No different than buying any other stock. (OK, pink sheets, so you must use limit orders, but you get the idea.)

I've waited years for this day! Can't wait to see what happens next.
I miiiiight have a bit of a bullish bias here ;-)

Is this with or rather through a self-funded roth ira? Sorry, I'm not overly familiar and just wanted to pick your brains a bit. This seems, well frankly, like an amazing vehicle for preserving growth.
So, if I understand correctly, you would have deposited up to $5500 for the year of contributions or how ever little; then you just bought the individual shares.

The money you've spent on this has already been taxed. So, assuming it is a qualified withdrawal; if you bought basically a coin at $420, if at the time it is withdrawn, the coin/share is now worth $1,000; you do not pay taxes on that $580 increase in value? And likewise; if the coin is worth say $32,000... you wouldn't pay tax on that additionally $31,000 in appreciation assuming it's a valid withdrawal?

That seems almost to good to be true lol. How is this not amazing!? lol?

To my knowledge, that is correct. (Consult your own accountant, blahblahblah disclaimer).

It is why I have been waiting for this day for years.
Anyone with retirement funds can now buy Bitcoin.

The faucet JUST opened, and the supply is not yet even a dribble.

It is simply unbelievable that $133.7 could be used to set an all time high.
I so badly wish it was represented on the charts.

It's showing 133.70 now. EDIT: Make that $175.00.

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

So... who is still on a bear side?  

bid side: 45$ top.

plus anyone could explain the hell is "Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin" supposed to mean? is one share 1/10th of an <imaginary> bitcoin or not?

[Kupsi]

plus anyone could explain the hell is "Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin" supposed to mean? is one share 1/10th of an <imaginary> bitcoin or not?

0.1 BTC - fees

[hdbuck]

plus anyone could explain the hell is "Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin" supposed to mean? is one share 1/10th of an <imaginary> bitcoin or not?

0.1 BTC - fees

lol

[Chainsaw]

First trade is showing up on http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote now

I now hold Bitcoin in my Roth IRA, purchased from Ameritrade.
No different than buying any other stock. (OK, pink sheets, so you must use limit orders, but you get the idea.)

I've waited years for this day! Can't wait to see what happens next.
I miiiiight have a bit of a bullish bias here ;-)

Is this with or rather through a self-funded roth ira? Sorry, I'm not overly familiar and just wanted to pick your brains a bit. This seems, well frankly, like an amazing vehicle for preserving growth.
So, if I understand correctly, you would have deposited up to $5500 for the year of contributions or how ever little; then you just bought the individual shares.

The money you've spent on this has already been taxed. So, assuming it is a qualified withdrawal; if you bought basically a coin at $420, if at the time it is withdrawn, the coin/share is now worth $1,000; you do not pay taxes on that $580 increase in value? And likewise; if the coin is worth say $32,000... you wouldn't pay tax on that additionally $31,000 in appreciation assuming it's a valid withdrawal?

That seems almost to good to be true lol. How is this not amazing!? lol?

To my knowledge, that is correct. (Consult your own accountant, blahblahblah disclaimer).

It is why I have been waiting for this day for years.
Anyone with retirement funds can now buy Bitcoin.

The faucet JUST opened, and the supply is not yet even a dribble.

It is simply unbelievable that $133.7 could be used to set an all time high.
I so badly wish it was represented on the charts.

It's showing 133.70 now. EDIT: Make that $175.00.

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

So... who is still on a bear side?  

bid side: 45$ top.

plus anyone could explain the hell is "Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin" supposed to mean? is one share 1/10th of an <imaginary> bitcoin or not?

They own a certain number of shares.
Market participants can buy or sell the stock, knowing that they have X amount of underlying bitcoins as value.

When the stock price goes up such that the value exceeds 0.1 times the market value of Bitcoin per share, BIT can purchase additional shares.

The net value of the fund would then change. But it does not remain in perfect lockstep with the ratio. So it is approximate.

The listings are still wonky.
When my 100 GBTC sale sold 7 at the all time high ($133.7 each), the funds transferred, yet the full 100 showed as for sale.
When 10 more sold, the listing disappeared.
Yet there are still 84 GBTC for sale at $133.7.
I don't even see my orders showing in Level II data, yet it appears within my trading account as a posted Ask.

Some on ToF have speculated that some of the chart data is not yet refreshed.
I'm hopeful such an update occurs. I believe this is the most likely explanation. Because when I initially bought, 100 shares were at $42, but I also bought one at $46. Yet the trading accounts still show $42 as the high for the day.

Maybe we'll find out tomorrow.

[oblox]

Here's the activity for those that don't have Bloomberg:

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Fatman3001]

First trade is showing up on http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote now

I now hold Bitcoin in my Roth IRA, purchased from Ameritrade.
No different than buying any other stock. (OK, pink sheets, so you must use limit orders, but you get the idea.)

I've waited years for this day! Can't wait to see what happens next.
I miiiiight have a bit of a bullish bias here ;-)

Is this with or rather through a self-funded roth ira? Sorry, I'm not overly familiar and just wanted to pick your brains a bit. This seems, well frankly, like an amazing vehicle for preserving growth.
So, if I understand correctly, you would have deposited up to $5500 for the year of contributions or how ever little; then you just bought the individual shares.

The money you've spent on this has already been taxed. So, assuming it is a qualified withdrawal; if you bought basically a coin at $420, if at the time it is withdrawn, the coin/share is now worth $1,000; you do not pay taxes on that $580 increase in value? And likewise; if the coin is worth say $32,000... you wouldn't pay tax on that additionally $31,000 in appreciation assuming it's a valid withdrawal?

That seems almost to good to be true lol. How is this not amazing!? lol?

To my knowledge, that is correct. (Consult your own accountant, blahblahblah disclaimer).

It is why I have been waiting for this day for years.
Anyone with retirement funds can now buy Bitcoin.

The faucet JUST opened, and the supply is not yet even a dribble.

It is simply unbelievable that $133.7 could be used to set an all time high.
I so badly wish it was represented on the charts.

It's showing 133.70 now. EDIT: Make that $175.00.

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

So... who is still on a bear side?  

bid side: 45$ top.

plus anyone could explain the hell is "Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin" supposed to mean? is one share 1/10th of an <imaginary> bitcoin or not?

They own a certain number of shares.
Market participants can buy or sell the stock, knowing that they have X amount of underlying bitcoins as value.

When the stock price goes up such that the value exceeds 0.1 times the market value of Bitcoin per share, BIT can purchase additional shares.

The net value of the fund would then change. But it does not remain in perfect lockstep with the ratio. So it is approximate.

The listings are still wonky.
When my 100 GBTC sale sold 7 at the all time high ($133.7 each), the funds transferred, yet the full 100 showed as for sale.
When 10 more sold, the listing disappeared.
Yet there are still 84 GBTC for sale at $133.7.
I don't even see my orders showing in Level II data, yet it appears within my trading account as a posted Ask.

Some on ToF have speculated that some of the chart data is not yet refreshed.
I'm hopeful such an update occurs. I believe this is the most likely explanation. Because when I initially bought, 100 shares were at $42, but I also bought one at $46. Yet the trading accounts still show $42 as the high for the day.

Maybe we'll find out tomorrow.

Could it be that a certain number of shares needs to be sold in order to get listing so that nobody can artificially inflate the price?

[derpinheimer]

What does that mean, "Volx100" and then "0.01"

I'm thinking it means Vol/100 (0.01*100 = 1), but it actually says 0.01/100 = 0.0001?

[rolling]

What does that mean, "Volx100" and then "0.01"

I'm thinking it means Vol/100 (0.01*100 = 1), but it actually says 0.01/100 = 0.0001?

.01 * 100 = 1 share of GBTC which equals ~.1 BTC so currently the price of BTC on GBTC is $1750/BTC

[Chainsaw]

Could it be that a certain number of shares needs to be sold in order to get listing so that nobody can artificially inflate the price?

That was my first guess, as my sale of 1 GBTC at $133.7 did not appear, but the 100 did.

However, other entrants have Asks of 1 GBTC and are appearing.

I even set up small sales using each of the various Limit options in case there was some quirky other criterion.
So far, I've not been able to decide how the 100 Share limit could apply and yet let 1 GBTC listings appear.

The best explanation I have so far is quirks and bugs in the display, filtering, and refreshing/updating of information, such that the same actions on my part a week or two from now would display all this data.
Not sure.

Thanks for the Bloomberg feed. It's good to know the orders my exchange shows as listed actually...are.

Gotta love Day 1 of a new toy in Bitcoinland :-)

[oblox]

What does that mean, "Volx100" and then "0.01"

I'm thinking it means Vol/100 (0.01*100 = 1), but it actually says 0.01/100 = 0.0001?

.01 * 100 = 1 share of GBTC which equals ~.1 BTC so currently the price of BTC on GBTC is $1750/BTC

You nailed it for how Bloomberg shows intraday T&S.

[Fatman3001]

Could it be that a certain number of shares needs to be sold in order to get listing so that nobody can artificially inflate the price?

That was my first guess, as my sale of 1 GBTC at $133.7 did not appear, but the 100 did.

However, other entrants have Asks of 1 GBTC and are appearing.

I even set up small sales using each of the various Limit options in case there was some quirky other criterion.
So far, I've not been able to decide how the 100 Share limit could apply and yet let 1 GBTC listings appear.

The best explanation I have so far is quirks and bugs in the display, filtering, and refreshing/updating of information, such that the same actions on my part a week or two from now would display all this data.
Not sure.

Thanks for the Bloomberg feed. It's good to know the orders my exchange shows as listed actually...are.

Gotta love Day 1 of a new toy in Bitcoinland :-)

And thx for sharing your test ride with us

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[bassclef]

Is that also the reason why BitFinex's orderbook seems to be broken on Bitcoinwisdom? It seems to shift every 5 seconds or so... What's up with that? Also, does this mean the price is going to break back up in an hour or so?

Not sure. I was getting annoyed by it earlier. Maybe it's a buggy API, or someone is testing a market-making bot (which fills in gaps between bid and ask). Seems to have stopped now.

Usually, during an uptrend, if a price just below the market is rejected on declining volume (which is what happened), it indicates that enough buyers in proportion to sellers exist to support the price. In that case the price will probably recover or simply go sideways before resuming its trend. This action could also be a shakeout designed to hunt stops below the market or nervous longs covering, or both.

I'm uncertain about this uptrend but leaning bullish. GBTC trading live could be a good pump opportunity once the market settles down sideways so we'll see if that materializes. There is a distinct lack of selling so even the slightest demand would push prices up. Definitely a risky trade to take a short position.

Regarding future prices: If a whale is smart he will attempt to push the market in the cheapest direction, otherwise he risks losing money as the prevailing market forces will simply run him over. Taking a bet in the direction of least resistance is more likely to result in a profitable trade.

[BayAreaCoins]

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

What a joke  

[Chainsaw]

Could it be that a certain number of shares needs to be sold in order to get listing so that nobody can artificially inflate the price?

That was my first guess, as my sale of 1 GBTC at $133.7 did not appear, but the 100 did.

However, other entrants have Asks of 1 GBTC and are appearing.

I even set up small sales using each of the various Limit options in case there was some quirky other criterion.
So far, I've not been able to decide how the 100 Share limit could apply and yet let 1 GBTC listings appear.

The best explanation I have so far is quirks and bugs in the display, filtering, and refreshing/updating of information, such that the same actions on my part a week or two from now would display all this data.
Not sure.

Thanks for the Bloomberg feed. It's good to know the orders my exchange shows as listed actually...are.

Gotta love Day 1 of a new toy in Bitcoinland :-)

And thx for sharing your test ride with us

Hell yeah! Usually test rides are very expensive. This was one of those rare instances where it was profitable.
Hopefully the problems are all feed/filter/cache-related, and will be cleared up soon.