Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fatman3001]

yolalanda is right. this story about eur vat is purely a coincidence. I mean bs coincidence. this move like any other in this market was orchestrated by institutional investors, whales.

just few hours before the move a newbie   actually posted here a thread here about price going 5~10 $ up because of it.  

uber-bullish and all, time to open more shorts.

It is confirmed then. Institutional investors are flocking to Bitcoin.

CCMF!!!

[yolalanda]

Norway 25%

So there are folks who actually pay exchange rate +25% when they buy bitcoin? And probably from convenient bitcoin ATMs charging an extra 19% on top of that?
Color me impressed

[tarmi]

institutional investor = more than 20 k of coins. that's not necessarily wall street level. in bitcoin world that's more like mom's basement level.  

[hdbuck]

institutional investor = more than 20 k of coins. that's not wall street level, but mom's basement.  

institutional investor already have the ~10 million coins that are not on internet exchanges.
no need pumping, just holding. bots and noobs do the rest.

[Elwar]

Norway 25%

So there are folks who actually pay exchange rate +25% when they buy bitcoin? And probably from convenient bitcoin ATMs charging an extra 19% on top of that?
Color me impressed

For localbitcoins I had some people driving 2 hours to trade with me because the people in their city were charging 20-25%. At the time I was only charging 15%. I've since lowered it to 10.

[yolalanda]

Norway 25%

So there are folks who actually pay exchange rate +25% when they buy bitcoin? And probably from convenient bitcoin ATMs charging an extra 19% on top of that?
Color me impressed

For localbitcoins I had some people driving 2 hours to trade with me because the people in their city were charging 20-25%. At the time I was only charging 15%. I've since lowered it to 10.

You're likely dealing with money launderers, or desperately lonely people willing to go to any length, use any pretext, just to interact with another human being.
I know this because there are bitcoin exchanges, charging fees substantially lower than yours, on the interweb.
P.S. Do they [also] pay VAT, or?

[spooderman]

can we please choo choo mother gentleman?


CCMG

[aztecminer]

what happened is greece about to default again ??

[tarmi]

institutional investor = more than 20 k of coins. that's not wall street level, but mom's basement.  

institutional investor already have the ~10 million coins that are not on internet exchanges.
no need pumping, just holding. bots and noobs do the rest.

those coins are just hoping and waiting for trillions of dollars to pour into...gemini?

if there were no need to pump, why would these judas swings (20 $ up, 50 down) take place every few months?

[billyjoeallen]

(Without some automatic and economically sound fee adjustment mechanism, a workaround would be to have a governing body like the international commission that defines and updates (by voting) the Metric System: with no legal power, but with effective moral power derived from competence and representativity.  But try telling that to the libertarians...)

What makes you think libertarians would object to that? Our problem is the initiation of force. Our core value is the NonAgression Principle. Obviously society needs order and structure. Obviously there needs to be rules. We just want those rules to be enforced by imposing opportunity costs and to reserve violence for defensive purposes only.  Nothing in your workaround violates that.

[findftp]

I was too early with selling the news a few days ago.
Now the EU VAT news is out, I'm happy to know we're going down again.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin

Explanation

[billyjoeallen]

yolalanda is right. this story about eur vat is purely a coincidence. I mean bs coincidence. this move like any other in this market was orchestrated by institutional investors, whales.

just few hours before the move a newbie   actually posted here a thread here about price going 5~10 $ up because of it.  

uber-bullish and all, time to open more shorts.

That's dangerous, IMHO. I'm not even considering opening shorts until the $290s, and maybe not even then. I might wait until the top is in and maybe I'll just keep collecting this 0.035% daily interest on my exchange fiat.

Short and long leverage on BFX is going down.  That doesn't indicate direction. it indicates lower volatility.

[Elwar]

Norway 25%

So there are folks who actually pay exchange rate +25% when they buy bitcoin? And probably from convenient bitcoin ATMs charging an extra 19% on top of that?
Color me impressed

For localbitcoins I had some people driving 2 hours to trade with me because the people in their city were charging 20-25%. At the time I was only charging 15%. I've since lowered it to 10.

You're likely dealing with money launderers, or desperately lonely people willing to go to any length, use any pretext, just to interact with another human being.
I know this because there are bitcoin exchanges, charging fees substantially lower than yours, on the interweb.
P.S. Do they [also] pay VAT, or?

I don't ask. The one guy who told me why was because he doesn't think his government should know every little thing he does with his money.

I actually paid 15% for 6k euros when I first arrived here because that was the only way I could get that many euros quickly. I needed it to buy a car.

[tarmi]

I'm not even considering opening shorts until the $290s, and maybe not even then.

yeah, everybody waiting for 290~300 to short this round means 300 probably won't happen. not to mention that there were no serious corrections in this run up. buyers getting exhausted.

[JayJuanGee]

Yes, that's right.  The gox bot is a bit of a myth... to give it so much credit for the rise in the price of BTC in 2013...    

It may have contributed to the rise in the price, but there were plenty of other things going on as well.

The most popular belief is that it was caused by a sudden and mysterious rise of demand in China. They base their assumption on the high volume that BTCChina showed during that time, while ignoring the fact that Chinese exchanges have the habit of faking volume.
The pump upwards was fueled by MtGox and BTCChina's volume was created only as a misdirection. BTCChina volume was only created to explain this sudden rise in demand and to hide the fact that the price is mainly pumped by Karpeles and his non existent money. Karpeles thought that he can pump bitcoin enough to start a rise that would make him back the coins that were lost by the previous hack. It backfired of a simple reason - Karpeles is a terrible trader. He was outplayed even by the majority, so his losses got even bigger in both coin and fiat. Most of the smart traders just profited from this pump and got out at the right time. Only the inexperienced get-rich-quick folks were the ones who didn't know the right time when to get out, but their investments were small and meaningless anyway.

I think that the bitcoin scenery is amusing because people are still in strong denial about the whole 2013 pump situation. Miners are still holding their high production cost coin because "any minute now, another mysterious and unexplained pump will surely come". But it won't come if no one is orchestrating a similar fraud.
The coming of Gemini is finally dissolving this myth that institutional investors are waiting for the right chance to be the greater fools of bitcoin. I think that this myth will now be more in the form of "ETF will change everything!".
So, to me, it's not a question if the bitcoin price will face a total collapse, but only when will it happen.
When will all the illusions of bitcoins worth finally fade. When people will finally realize that artificial scarcity doesn't work with something that is easily replaceable, and the network effect of bitcoin is mostly dependent on a bad brand name. That the future of crypto is not about them getting easy riches, but about better technological solutions that have addressed the problems that have kept bitcoin from being a practical tool of finance.

In essence, Mt Gox was one factor that affected BTC prices in various ways and continues to have some effects on BTC prices.

But in the end, merely because some people, including yourself and Question Authority are placing a lot of emphasis and explanation into the MT Gox pumping spin does NOT cause that to be some kind of true and meaningful assessment of the BTC situation.

You surely seem to spend a lot of time on these forums attempting to tell BTC enthusiasts that we are wrong... Why don't you go find a more fitting hobby and/or activity in which you can meaningfully contribute to some kind of positive change rather than wasting our time and possibly your time with your various meaningless prognostications and naysaying spins. 

Oh yeah, I forgot you cannot go somewhere else because you are likely needing to receive your pay for engaging in your FUD spreading.

[yolalanda]

Norway 25%

So there are folks who actually pay exchange rate +25% when they buy bitcoin? And probably from convenient bitcoin ATMs charging an extra 19% on top of that?
Color me impressed

For localbitcoins I had some people driving 2 hours to trade with me because the people in their city were charging 20-25%. At the time I was only charging 15%. I've since lowered it to 10.

You're likely dealing with money launderers, or desperately lonely people willing to go to any length, use any pretext, just to interact with another human being.
I know this because there are bitcoin exchanges, charging fees substantially lower than yours, on the interweb.
P.S. Do they [also] pay VAT, or?

I don't ask. The one guy who told me why was because he doesn't think his government should know every little thing he does with his money.

That one just keeps getting better each time I hear it

I actually paid 15% for 6k euros when I first arrived here because that was the only way I could get that many euros quickly. I needed it to buy a car.

I suppose your privacy-conscious friend was in a similar predicament. Won't even ask what he was so eager to buy...

[JorgeStolfi]

(Without some automatic and economically sound fee adjustment mechanism, a workaround would be to have a governing body like the international commission that defines and updates (by voting) the Metric System: with no legal power, but with effective moral power derived from competence and representativity.  But try telling that to the libertarians...)

What makes you think libertarians would object to that? Our problem is the initiation of force. Our core value is the NonAgression Principle.

Because those international committees (IERS, IUPAC, ISO, IEC, etc.) are formed by representatives of countries, usually appointed by the national standards bodies; and reach their decisions by voting (after years of technical discussion).  Correct me if I am wrong, but libertarians despise voting, because it means the majority imposing its decision on the minority. 

Libertarians prefer "consensus" instead; because, by definition, a consensus decision must please the minority parties too.  A pity that they can't explain how consensus could be achieved when the minority does not like what the majority proposes...

[JayJuanGee]

a six dollar pump? So what? It didn't even trigger my sell order. Why do you even care? What's these assholes like hdbuck even doing on a Wall Observer thread if they don't care about short and intermediate term prices as they claim?

I thought that you already sold at the first shot at $270, so you can "divest" a little?


Frequently you have a tendency to talk out of bot sides of your mouth - especially when it comes to your incorporating your book-talk

[Blazin8888]

The Cryptoscene is changing fast.....

Bitcoin will serve as Digital gold.
DASH will be worth around $100
DIGIBYTES will be the pennies of crypto.

Ethereum will run our household dapps and appliances

The future is coming folks. Strap in.