Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[billyjoeallen]

a six dollar pump? So what? It didn't even trigger my sell order. Why do you even care? What's these assholes like hdbuck even doing on a Wall Observer thread if they don't care about short and intermediate term prices as they claim?

I thought that you already sold at the first shot at $270, so you can "divest" a little?


Frequently you have a tendency to talk out of bot sides of your mouth - especially when it comes to your incorporating your book-talk

I did sell, but it flash dumped to $258 and I reloaded. 

[yolalanda]

Italian guy: This ATM just ate my  card, buy my BTC at 20% markup.
You:           Which one? Let us go there so I can stick my card in it too... Whoops!

It was more like.
Me: I thought you were buying bitcoins, not buying euros. I only have 300 on me. Let me get 400 euros from this ATM we're standing at.
ATM eats my card.
Italian guy: Yep, same thing happened to me.

So Italian guy just watched you stick your card into an ATM which ate his? The very reason he needed to sell you BTC at a 20% markup in the first place?
Didn't say "hey, maybe you should try a different ATM, this one just ate my card," just chuckled under his breath, you say?
So you couldn't get any cash?
Did the two of you go looking for another gentlemen, to sell him your bitcoin at a totally reasonable 20% markup, both of you needing cash?

While we were standing there a few other people used it. The reason it ate my card is likely because I didn't have the right PIN.

I couldn't get any cash. I gave him 300 so he could have spending money for a few days and I went to the bank the next day to get more (where they told me I entered the wrong PIN). We actually hung out a few times and talked about Bitcoin and general ex-pat type of stuff. I helped him figure out how to pay Expedia for a hotel room with bitcoins while he looked for an apartment. Eventually his wife sent him a replacement card from home. And I got my replacement card, though I never did use it (that was the first time I tried to use my ATM card).

Maybe he was also using his card for the first time? And, like you, kept punching in the wrong PIN until the machine ate his card? These things happen.
I hope the two of you are more careful with your bitcoins private keys than you are with your (4 digit?) PINs.
No one will issue you a new private key
That said, I think most bitcoiners hate banks because, like you, they simply don't know how to use them/never try them. Hard to imagine an (above poverty line) adult who never uses an ATM card in this, the Year of Our Lord 2015.

[Fatman3001]

I was too early with selling the news a few days ago.
Now the EU VAT news is out, I'm happy to know we're going down again.

What's the opposite of a dead cat bounce called? How do you know this isn't a small retrace before the price continues to rise higher? I didn't notice any posts here discussing rumors about the VAT decision. I couldn't find any threads about it until the news got out, and I didn't know anything about it until then. I doubt many others were buying the rumor if there were no rumors flying around here.

It has been discussed in the new forum. There's been some migration since it turned out that Theymos is everything Bitcoin is opposed to.


https://bitco.in/forum/threads/wall-observer.27/page-12#post-2567

[Paashaas]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/657163992050171904

[noobtrader]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/657163992050171904

should i prepare my moon suit ? 

[yolalanda]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/657163992050171904

https://i.imgur.com/8aNSYCN.jpg

Your avatar and the posted gif? Separated at birth?

[billyjoeallen]

(Without some automatic and economically sound fee adjustment mechanism, a workaround would be to have a governing body like the international commission that defines and updates (by voting) the Metric System: with no legal power, but with effective moral power derived from competence and representativity.  But try telling that to the libertarians...)

What makes you think libertarians would object to that? Our problem is the initiation of force. Our core value is the NonAgression Principle. Obviously society needs order and structure. Obviously there needs to be rules. We just want those rules to be enforced by imposing opportunity costs and to reserve violence for defensive purposes only.  Nothing in your workaround violates that.

maybe Prof. Jorge think that libertarian means anarchist.  were it was the same, we shouldnt make 2 word out of it isnt ?
btw : price rises another 10 usd wow... im impressed  

This is debated commonly among anarcho-capitalists. We are so different ideologically from anarcho-socialists (the original anarchist, most common type, and the ones most people think bout when they hear the word "anarchist") that it may not even be helpful to use the word at all.

If "anarchist" means "no rulers" or "no monopoly State", then I qualify, but not if it means "no leaders" or no hierarchies at all, then, well that's just stupid.

I'm a hard core free market dude who opposes aggression and coercion.  Some day hopefully there will be enough of us that we can get our own non-hyphenated word.

[Elwar]

Hard to imagine an (above poverty line) adult who never uses an ATM card in this, the Year of Our Lord 2015.

That was the first time I used a German ATM card in Europe. I've used my US card plenty of times through my life. I only really had a German bank account to deposit money and buy bitcoins. I never had reason before to get cash out considering so many people buy bitcoins from me for cash.
Part of the difficulty being the language barrier at the time.

[yolalanda]

(Without some automatic and economically sound fee adjustment mechanism, a workaround would be to have a governing body like the international commission that defines and updates (by voting) the Metric System: with no legal power, but with effective moral power derived from competence and representativity.  But try telling that to the libertarians...)

What makes you think libertarians would object to that? Our problem is the initiation of force. Our core value is the NonAgression Principle. Obviously society needs order and structure. Obviously there needs to be rules. We just want those rules to be enforced by imposing opportunity costs and to reserve violence for defensive purposes only.  Nothing in your workaround violates that.

maybe Prof. Jorge think that libertarian means anarchist.  were it was the same, we shouldnt make 2 word out of it isnt ?
btw : price rises another 10 usd wow... im impressed  

This is debated commonly among anarcho-capitalists. We are so different ideologically from anarcho-socialists (the original anarchist, most common type, and the ones most people think bout when they hear the word "anarchist") that it may not even be helpful to use the word at all.

If "anarchist" means "no rulers" or "no monopoly State", then I qualify, but not if it means "no leaders" or no hierarchies at all, then, well that's just stupid.

I'm a hard core free market dude who opposes aggression and coercion.  Some day hopefully there will be enough of us that we can get our own non-hyphenated word.

Most people calling themselves 'Libertarian' or 'Anarchist' have no idea what they mean themselves, no wonder no one else does.
I mean, their poster girl Ayn hates Libers and Anarcaps with a passion, I quote:
"For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with, and have no connection with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultanteously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the collectivist movement, where it properly belongs.
Above all, do not join the wrong ideological groups or movements, in order to “do something.” By “ideological” (in this context), I mean groups or movements proclaiming some vaguely generalized, undefined (and, usually, contradictory) political goals. (E.g., the Conservative Party, which subordinates reason to faith, and substitutes theocracy for capitalism; or the “libertarian” hippies, who subordinate reason to whims, and substitute anarchism for capitalism.)"

[Patel]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/657163992050171904

What happened to the bitcoin spin off?

http://dcg.co

[findftp]

I was too early with selling the news a few days ago.
Now the EU VAT news is out, I'm happy to know we're going down again.

What's the opposite of a dead cat bounce called? How do you know this isn't a small retrace before the price continues to rise higher? I didn't notice any posts here discussing rumors about the VAT decision. I couldn't find any threads about it until the news got out, and I didn't know anything about it until then. I doubt many others were buying the rumor if there were no rumors flying around here.

We're you living under a rock since July 16th?

No, no rumours at all... I suggest you load up on expensive coins.
I'll wait and buy some $240 coins in the next two months...

Chinese and dollar exchanges are not really following, only some arbitrage trading imho.

[findftp]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/657163992050171904

What happened to the bitcoin spin off?

http://dcg.co

Exactly, so the second market news is unrelated to bitcoin.

[celebreze32]

I was too early with selling the news a few days ago.
Now the EU VAT news is out, I'm happy to know we're going down again.

What's the opposite of a dead cat bounce called? How do you know this isn't a small retrace before the price continues to rise higher? I didn't notice any posts here discussing rumors about the VAT decision. I couldn't find any threads about it until the news got out, and I didn't know anything about it until then. I doubt many others were buying the rumor if there were no rumors flying around here.

We're you living under a rock since July 16th?

No, no rumours at all... I suggest you load up on expensive coins.
I'll wait and buy some $240 coins in the next two months...

I still can't find any old threads about it here, and I don't remember any discussions about it before the news was announced. Generally to buy the rumor means a community has to be talking about something and I don't remember any mention of the tax until today. This thread is great for finding out about the latest rumor, but I've not heard VAT mentioned for a long time.

[Fatman3001]

(Without some automatic and economically sound fee adjustment mechanism, a workaround would be to have a governing body like the international commission that defines and updates (by voting) the Metric System: with no legal power, but with effective moral power derived from competence and representativity.  But try telling that to the libertarians...)

What makes you think libertarians would object to that? Our problem is the initiation of force. Our core value is the NonAgression Principle. Obviously society needs order and structure. Obviously there needs to be rules. We just want those rules to be enforced by imposing opportunity costs and to reserve violence for defensive purposes only.  Nothing in your workaround violates that.

maybe Prof. Jorge think that libertarian means anarchist.  were it was the same, we shouldnt make 2 word out of it isnt ?
btw : price rises another 10 usd wow... im impressed  

This is debated commonly among anarcho-capitalists. We are so different ideologically from anarcho-socialists (the original anarchist, most common type, and the ones most people think bout when they hear the word "anarchist") that it may not even be helpful to use the word at all.

If "anarchist" means "no rulers" or "no monopoly State", then I qualify, but not if it means "no leaders" or no hierarchies at all, then, well that's just stupid.

I'm a hard core free market dude who opposes aggression and coercion.  Some day hopefully there will be enough of us that we can get our own non-hyphenated word.

You've had a bunch of southern racists and a certain australian media mogul telling you for decades that you shouldn't learn about true liberalism and true socialism. That's what makes the US of A such a fucked up place. A strong state is important.  True liberal values are important. A strong democracy is important. The political analfabetism of americans is what's destroying America.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin

Explanation

[yolalanda]

Well some people are miserable bastards. Pissing on our fire.

I stood there shivering in my pajamas and watched the whole world go up in flames.
And when it was all over I said to myself,
"Is that all there is to a fire?"
♫
Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all. there. is.
♫

[billyjoeallen]

Most people calling themselves 'Libertarian' or 'Anarchist' have no idea what they mean themselves, no wonder no one else does.
I mean, their poster girl Ayn hates Libers and Anarcaps with a passion, I quote:
"For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with, and have no connection with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultanteously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the collectivist movement, where it properly belongs.
Above all, do not join the wrong ideological groups or movements, in order to “do something.” By “ideological” (in this context), I mean groups or movements proclaiming some vaguely generalized, undefined (and, usually, contradictory) political goals. (E.g., the Conservative Party, which subordinates reason to faith, and substitutes theocracy for capitalism; or the “libertarian” hippies, who subordinate reason to whims, and substitute anarchism for capitalism.)"

We are well aware of what Ayn Rand thought of us.  We don't have lots of love for her, either. We do have a serious respect for her contributions to free market thought, but if you wanna look at real intellectual cultists, take a look at the Objectivists.  I mean, even Nathaniel Brandon couldn't get along with her. True intellectuals don't worship their heros. We learn from them and build on the foundation. For example, even Saint Murray Rothbard himself though Intellectual Property was a legitimate concept. It isn't.

Rand was a brilliant but flawed woman.  Her books were interesting and compelling, but hardly great literature. Her philosophy survives now only as an intellectual backwater. How ironic that Rothbard, one of The Chosen, was much less of an elitist.  I respect Rand but I love Rothbard.  I'm a firefighter with two jobs and about as far from being a hippie as you can get and still be white.

EDIT: Rand was also a Jew. Smart people, those Hebes. But smart doesn't always mean right. Karl Marx, for example.

[findftp]

I was too early with selling the news a few days ago.
Now the EU VAT news is out, I'm happy to know we're going down again.

What's the opposite of a dead cat bounce called? How do you know this isn't a small retrace before the price continues to rise higher? I didn't notice any posts here discussing rumors about the VAT decision. I couldn't find any threads about it until the news got out, and I didn't know anything about it until then. I doubt many others were buying the rumor if there were no rumors flying around here.

We're you living under a rock since July 16th?

No, no rumours at all... I suggest you load up on expensive coins.
I'll wait and buy some $240 coins in the next two months...

I still can't find any old threads about it here, and I don't remember any discussions about it before the news was announced. Generally to buy the rumor means a community has to be talking about something and I don't remember any mention of the tax until today. This thread is great for finding out about the latest rumor, but I've not heard VAT mentioned for a long time.

Ah come on. As if all bitcoin buyers/investors come here to spread and buy the rumor.
This website is usually a pile of shit. Most bitcoin investors I know do not even come here or even know it's existence.

[molecular]

This price surge seems to be led by the Western exchanges, and must be due to the European VAT ruling.

Were there any countries where bitcoin trades were already paying VAT (or inhibited because of it)? In Sweden maybe? In the UK?

yes, for example this dutch exchange: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3pqy5n/eus_top_court_rules_that_bitcoin_exchange_is/cw8nrcc

UK? No, those guys cleared bitcoin from VAT years ago.

[billyjoeallen]

You've had a bunch of southern racists and a certain australian media mogul telling you for decades that you shouldn't learn about true liberalism and true socialism. That's what makes the US of A such a fucked up place. A strong state is important.  True liberal values are important. A strong democracy is important. The political analfabetism of americans is what's destroying America.

Are you serious? You think we get our ideas from Rupert Murdoch?  We have the largest economy in the world because of...what exactly? The Teamsters?

Ah, yes."true socialism". Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried because it wasn't "true socialism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman


I doubt even Marx himself would still believe in the Labor Theory of Value if he had ever been introduced to Marginal Utility.