Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Paashaas]

Burger King (Arnhem, The Netherlands) accepts Bitcoin payments! To celebrate the 100-retailer milestone, a mystery event will be held at Burger King Arnhem tomorrow evening.

I dont live near Arnhem but it's worth the trip to buy a hamburger menu with Bitcoin 

http://bitcoinist.net/burger-king-arnhem-now-accepts-bitcoin-payments

Looks like I'm moving to Arnhem then.

Do you live in Holland? It's about 100km from my town to Arnhem, i got plans to visit Burger King the comming ore next weekend. ( i skip that "mystery event'').

[bargainbin]

Rejoice!
Third Classic Block (399024) mined

[billyjoeallen]

While I typically advice people to avoid using off the chain solutions and centralized bitcoin banks, it isn't fair to compare Mtgox to Coinbase and circle. There is a world of difference between the two... and it isn't irresponsible for new users to temporarily use these services while they learn about bitcoin. You have to weigh risks , and a new user has far more risk at losing their btc with a personal mistake, technical problem or virus than the risks inherent with a regulated and insured institution where their largest risk is capital gains taxes theft.

New users should just be made aware of the tradeoffs.

I hear what you're saying, but in a way they are like Gox, except more professional and honest. If you don't hold the private keys, you don't own Bitcoin.  Bitshares is partnering in a decentralized exchange, so it is possible. I just would like to see some with anywhere close to the volume of Stamp or BFX.

Ideally we want an ecosystem so robust that fiat isn't the main onramp, but rather businesses trading goods and services for coin. There is no way to do that however without a meaningful fix to the scaling problem that doesn't involve third party middlemen.  If we need middlemen, then there is no point to this whole experiment. It is a failure.

Don't worry about my short. I have posted extra margin, so you can't blow it up without making me a lot more on my cold storage stash.

[Fatman3001]

Burger King (Arnhem, The Netherlands) accepts Bitcoin payments! To celebrate the 100-retailer milestone, a mystery event will be held at Burger King Arnhem tomorrow evening.

I dont live near Arnhem but it's worth the trip to buy a hamburger menu with Bitcoin 

http://bitcoinist.net/burger-king-arnhem-now-accepts-bitcoin-payments

Looks like I'm moving to Arnhem then.

Do you live in Holland? It's about 100km from my town to Arnhem, i got plans to visit Burger King the comming ore next weekend. ( i skip that "mystery event'').

No, but I like burgers. I am very fat you see.

[BitUsher]

Don't worry about my short. I have posted extra margin, so you can't blow it up without making me a lot more on my cold storage stash.

That is an interesting way to think about it.... but doesn't take into account the leveraged losses and income loss potential from merely just holding, but don't worry, you keep posting your shorts and I'll keep buying up your coins.

Ideally we want an ecosystem so robust that fiat isn't the main onramp, but rather businesses trading goods and services for coin. There is no way to do that however without a meaningful fix to the scaling problem that doesn't involve third party middlemen.  If we need middlemen, then there is no point to this whole experiment. It is a failure.

That is a nice thought , and one that I can get behind , but is unrealistic in the short term. There needs to be a transitional period where fiat leaks into bitcoin before bitcoin becomes so ubiquitous that the USD / Euro merely becomes a foreign currency ... and we are no where close to that moment.

[Morecoin Freeman]

Don't worry about my short. I have posted extra margin, so you can't blow it up without making me a lot more on my cold storage stash.

Don't get too comfortable. The market has a paddle big enough to give anyone a spanking.

[bargainbin]

Bitcoin: It's not for criminal ugaise.  https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46cast/los_angeles_hospital_paid_ransom_in_bitcoin/d03z7bk?context=3

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Bitcoin: It's not for criminal ugaise.  https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46cast/los_angeles_hospital_paid_ransom_in_bitcoin/d03z7bk?context=3

Tell me more about your exquisite underwear Lamby

[Fatman3001]

***Sigh*** ... no wonder this discussion has been so "complicated"
Some are still under the misapprehension that miners are the ones who vote on the direction of bitcoin and "make the final call"

https://twitter.com/olivierjanss/status/700325846532362241

If this were true it would defeat the whole raison d'être of bitcoin in the first place and only would apply if we still were all mining on cpu's... when those days are long over. Economic Nodes now have a stake in the game and the power dynamics are split and a dynamic inter-relationship between miners, users, devs, exchanges/processors, and  merchants.

We need better educational materials to inform the confused... or perhaps we may learn the hard way with a contentious HF and many people learning that even one person has the right and ability to fork the chain at any given moment with or without the miners.  

There are many devs that will support the alternative chain as well -

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/700316802853634048

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/700317058102226944

You won. Stop telling me I'm confused you arrogant Proof of Stake! You're confused and you've managed to fud your way to victory. By the looks of things, the lack of education and spine in the Bitcoin community is what's kept you afloat, so maybe you should appreciate your band of village idiots a bit more.

Things I honestly believe:
There’s no obvious incentive for people to run nodes. Given their importance, we should do everything we can to limit the disincentives.

Well, then they're obviously not doing it for the incentives, are they?

[Morecoin Freeman]

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

***Sigh*** ... no wonder this discussion has been so "complicated"
Some are still under the misapprehension that miners are the ones who vote on the direction of bitcoin and "make the final call"

https://twitter.com/olivierjanss/status/700325846532362241

If this were true it would defeat the whole raison d'être of bitcoin in the first place and only would apply if we still were all mining on cpu's... when those days are long over. Economic Nodes now have a stake in the game and the power dynamics are split and a dynamic inter-relationship between miners, users, devs, exchanges/processors, and  merchants.

We need better educational materials to inform the confused... or perhaps we may learn the hard way with a contentious HF and many people learning that even one person has the right and ability to fork the chain at any given moment with or without the miners.  

There are many devs that will support the alternative chain as well -

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/700316802853634048

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/700317058102226944

You won. Stop telling me I'm confused you arrogant Proof of Stake! You're confused and you've managed to fud your way to victory. By the looks of things, the lack of education and spine in the Bitcoin community is what's kept you afloat, so maybe you should appreciate your band of village idiots a bit more.

Things I honestly believe:
There’s no obvious incentive for people to run nodes. Given their importance, we should do everything we can to limit the disincentives.

Well, then they're obviously not doing it for the incentives, are they?

I don't know why they're doing it. Bitcoiners are so warm hearted, I just assumed it was for the good of the team.

[billyjoeallen]

...
I'd rather have my dad use a trezor than coinbase.

The thought of my dad using a Trezor or Coinbase -- either one -- unsettles me a bit.
On par with imagining him scoring crack. At 2a.m. In the projects...

LOL. We have a ways to go on making consumer friendly offline wallets.  People do need to make a paradigm shift and understand that freedom comes with a cost. It takes more effort to be your own bank.  I fear most won't understand the value in it until they have fallen prey to depositor bail-ins, seized accounts, or just an outright bank failure with or without deposit insurance.

[bargainbin]

Bitcoin: It's not for criminal ugaise.  https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46cast/los_angeles_hospital_paid_ransom_in_bitcoin/d03z7bk?context=3

Tell me more about your exquisite underwear Lamby

What else is there to say? It's exquisite and risqué <==the "é" is a nod to BitUsher
If really curious, find out for yourself at , where we Agent Provocateurs hang out.

[BitUsher]

One valid concern that centralized services have for their long term viability is competing with p2p decentralized on the chain payment channels(LN and many more) instead of controlling the ecosystem. If they are smart they will adapt their business model over time and keep up, if not than they should be aware:

1) There are many of us that won't give up on keeping bitcoin decentralized and p2p (we have somewhat veered off track but are looking to reverse this trend)
2) We aren't your enemies and aren't here to destroy your business. We appreciate the efforts made , contributions and sacrifices given in exchange for what we have contributed back in solidarity and are open to mutually growing together with the understanding that we won't compromise our values
3) In the future nodes will be incentivized by sharing tx fees with miners by becoming payment channels. You will need to adapt to this change with bitcoin becoming a settlement network where a market of p2p individuals can freely compete with no unfairly favored nodes or companies. Our allegiances can quickly turn on any company that tries to control these payment channels, they must remain free, open  and decentralized .

There are many of us that are so secure about this future that we are willing to make exceptional sacrifices to make it happen.

[Fatman3001]

One valid concern that centralized services have for their long term viability is competing with p2p decentralized on the chain payment channels(LN and many more) instead of controlling the ecosystem. If they are smart they will adapt their business model over time and keep up, if not than they should be aware:

1) There are many of us that won't give up on keeping bitcoin decentralized and p2p (we have somewhat veered off track but are looking to reverse this trend)
2) We aren't your enemies and aren't here to destroy your business. We appreciate the efforts made , contributions and sacrifices given in exchange for what we have contributed back in solidarity and are open to mutually growing together with the understanding that we won't compromise our values
3) In the future nodes will be incentivized by sharing tx fees with miners by becoming payment channels. You will need to adapt to this change with bitcoin becoming a settlement network where a market of p2p individuals can freely compete with no unfairly favored nodes or companies. Our allegiances can quickly turn on any company that tries to control these payment channels, they must remain free, open  and decentralized .

There are many of us that are so secure about this future that we are willing to make exceptional sacrifices to make it happen.

WTF does that mean? This isn't one of your anarcap hugging sessions. Are you going to suicide bomb MIT or are you going to drink an extra can of Red Bull and code a bit more?

[gentlemand]

WTF does that mean? This isn't one of your anarcap hugging sessions. Are you going to suicide bomb MIT or are you going to drink an extra can of Red Bull and code a bit more?

Hide your IP. NOW.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

<------------Not a spy!

WTF does that mean? This isn't one of your anarcap hugging sessions. Are you going to suicide bomb MIT or are you going to drink an extra can of Red Bull and code a bit more?

Hide your IP. NOW.

[Fatman3001]

WTF does that mean? This isn't one of your anarcap hugging sessions. Are you going to suicide bomb MIT or are you going to drink an extra can of Red Bull and code a bit more?

Hide your IP. NOW.

Thanks for taking it out of context. I guess I'm ok now.

[bargainbin]

...
I'd rather have my dad use a trezor than coinbase.

The thought of my dad using a Trezor or Coinbase -- either one -- unsettles me a bit.
On par with imagining him scoring crack. At 2a.m. In the projects...

LOL. We have a ways to go on making consumer friendly offline wallets.  People do need to make a paradigm shift and understand that freedom comes with a cost. It takes more effort to be your own bank.  I fear most won't understand the value in it until they have fallen prey to depositor bail-ins, seized accounts, or just an outright bank failure with or without deposit insurance.

The thing is, not everyone is looking for this kind of freedom. My dad has fallen victim to exactly the same bail-ins as you have, (though he has never had an account seized, as, I'm assuming, you have) but there's no way I could convince him to start using BTC. Because being his own bank is as attractive to him as being his own mechanic. Which is to say "not at all."
I, myself, like being my own mechanic, but I do realize that it's not for everyone. That's why I do not corner people in stairwells & lecture them on how much money they could save by being their own mechanics, how auto shops routinely replace shit that doesn't need replacing & what a racket the whole auto industry is.

[BitUsher]

WTF does that mean? This isn't one of your anarcap hugging sessions. Are you going to suicide bomb MIT or are you going to drink an extra can of Red Bull and code a bit more?

Why would violence even be an option if you know I follow the non-aggression principle ? You have a very odd perception of our values. We are very motivated to keep the true nature and purpose of bitcoin alive... This means we not principally motivated by short term profits but have long term goals and are willing to make sacrifices and work hard to achieve them. If the community forces a contentious hard fork , so be it, we will happily allow the community to go separate ways, but be aware we will not acquiescence on our values and join a majority hash rate. There may be a short term struggle and than potentially some changes which will allow both chains to exist securely.  This doesn't mean we cannot find a solution through consensus and make certain reasonable consolations that don't directly compromise our values. Adding 1.7-2Mb capacity to segwit was that compromise and we want to dramatically scale up capacity in the future the right way. It would be great if you would join us building something great , If not , I understand and won't interfere with your choices.