Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[adamstgBit]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600781/technical-roadblock-might-shatter-bitcoin-dreams/

OMIGOD. Why wasn't I informed of this? I want Blockstream on the line right now for me refund.

"There is general agreement in the Bitcoin community that the system must remain decentralized to prevent the possibility of any company or government controlling the currency."

So we decentralize by putting three quarters of our mines in one government's jurisdiction? 

Why am I the only one apparently concerned by this? Everybody cool with Chinese government's hand on the kill switch?

... at which point a HF does become necessary and a new POW algorithm will be adopted, something more centralising-resistant.

>"more centralising-resistant."
you know why mining is consolidating? (hint its not centralizing)  It's because efficiencies in algorithm processing are being horded by the ASIC fabricators. As this technology democratizes (natural market competition) mining consolidation will biggin to diversify. It's a lack of understanding that leads to the mental shortcut that mining consolidation can be projected in a linear fashion until there is one cartel.  

Making the treat to choose a new PoW algorithm is an attack on the very incentive needed to motivate investment to grow and secure the network.  

I completely agree with this. What is needed is not less mines in China, But more mines outside of China.  It should worry all of us that this isn't happening to any meaningful degree.  Electrical power is 2 cents/kilowatthour in Eastern Washington, right outside of Microsoft's back door, so why are we letting the Chinese dominate mining?

I'll tell you why: The few American chip makers in the space like 21 are indeed hoarding the chips. This is a huge mistake, because they are onboarding all the risk. Sell miners and make money or keep them and mine. And then double down again by keeping the coins instead of selling them.

You may be good at speculating/trading
You may be good at making ASICS
You may be good at mining

But the chances are infinitesimal that you can be good at all three very difficult, competitive and specialized skills. 

i hate to break it to you, but fear of the chinese government confiscating all the mining farm in order to attempt a 51% attack is an irrational  fear.

short of this highly fantastic sanario, i see no problem having majority of hashing power where the majority of poeple on earth live.

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[adamstgBit]

i'll bet 1$ on >410 in <1hour

You're on. No need for escrow. I trust you.

woot!

ok,  if price hits >410 within 50mins you pay me 1$ if not i pay you 1$, bitstamps price.

I was gonna say BFX, but Stamp works for me. Tic, tic, tic...

~20 mins left and i still need to see 1/2 1/4 million dollars get dumped on stamps.

[tex99]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600781/technical-roadblock-might-shatter-bitcoin-dreams/

OMIGOD. Why wasn't I informed of this? I want Blockstream on the line right now for me refund.

"There is general agreement in the Bitcoin community that the system must remain decentralized to prevent the possibility of any company or government controlling the currency."

So we decentralize by putting three quarters of our mines in one government's jurisdiction? 

Why am I the only one apparently concerned by this? Everybody cool with Chinese government's hand on the kill switch?

... at which point a HF does become necessary and a new POW algorithm will be adopted, something more centralising-resistant.

>"more centralising-resistant."
you know why mining is consolidating? (hint its not centralizing)  It's because efficiencies in algorithm processing are being horded by the ASIC fabricators. As this technology democratizes (natural market competition) mining consolidation will biggin to diversify. It's a lack of understanding that leads to the mental shortcut that mining consolidation can be projected in a linear fashion until there is one cartel.  

Making the treat to choose a new PoW algorithm is an attack on the very incentive needed to motivate investment to grow and secure the network.  

I completely agree with this. What is needed is not less mines in China, But more mines outside of China.  It should worry all of us that this isn't happening to any meaningful degree.  Electrical power is 2 cents/kilowatthour in Eastern Washington, right outside of Microsoft's back door, so why are we letting the Chinese dominate mining?

I'll tell you why: The few American chip makers in the space like 21 are indeed hoarding the chips. This is a huge mistake, because they are onboarding all the risk. Sell miners and make money or keep them and mine. And then double down again by keeping the coins instead of selling them.

You may be good at speculating/trading
You may be good at making ASICS
You may be good at mining

But the chances are infinitesimal that you can be good at all three very difficult, competitive and specialized skills. 

i hate to break it to you, but fear of the chinese government confiscating all the mining farm in order to attempt a 51% attack is an irrational  fear.

short of this highly fantastic sanario, i see no problem having majority of hashing power where the majority of poeple on earth live.

The Chinese government won't confiscate all the mining farms to do a 51% attack. It would give people a bad impression of them. If they were to take any action against bitcoin or the farms it would be to make mining illegal in China and outlawing the possession of bitcoins. They already banned/unbanned bitcoin multiple times and I don't rule out them banning/unbanning it again, but I don't think it's likely.

[billyjoeallen]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600781/technical-roadblock-might-shatter-bitcoin-dreams/

OMIGOD. Why wasn't I informed of this? I want Blockstream on the line right now for me refund.

"There is general agreement in the Bitcoin community that the system must remain decentralized to prevent the possibility of any company or government controlling the currency."

So we decentralize by putting three quarters of our mines in one government's jurisdiction? 

Why am I the only one apparently concerned by this? Everybody cool with Chinese government's hand on the kill switch?

... at which point a HF does become necessary and a new POW algorithm will be adopted, something more centralising-resistant.

>"more centralising-resistant."
you know why mining is consolidating? (hint its not centralizing)  It's because efficiencies in algorithm processing are being horded by the ASIC fabricators. As this technology democratizes (natural market competition) mining consolidation will biggin to diversify. It's a lack of understanding that leads to the mental shortcut that mining consolidation can be projected in a linear fashion until there is one cartel.  

Making the treat to choose a new PoW algorithm is an attack on the very incentive needed to motivate investment to grow and secure the network.  

I completely agree with this. What is needed is not less mines in China, But more mines outside of China.  It should worry all of us that this isn't happening to any meaningful degree.  Electrical power is 2 cents/kilowatthour in Eastern Washington, right outside of Microsoft's back door, so why are we letting the Chinese dominate mining?

I'll tell you why: The few American chip makers in the space like 21 are indeed hoarding the chips. This is a huge mistake, because they are onboarding all the risk. Sell miners and make money or keep them and mine. And then double down again by keeping the coins instead of selling them.

You may be good at speculating/trading
You may be good at making ASICS
You may be good at mining

But the chances are infinitesimal that you can be good at all three very difficult, competitive and specialized skills. 

i hate to break it to you, but fear of the chinese government confiscating all the mining farm in order to attempt a 51% attack is an irrational  fear.

short of this highly fantastic sanario, i see no problem having majority of hashing power where the majority of poeple on earth live.

I have no problem with the Chinese. If mining was distributed between Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and Mainland China, this wouldn't be an issue at all, but the mines are all within a single political jurisdiction.  That's a major problem.  Censorship resistance isn't the ability to say whatever you want because the guy in charge lets you. It's saying whatever the hell you want because nobody can stop you. 

Worse case scenario is not that China cracks down, but that Bitcoin is such an ineffective tool to achieve freedom that they never need to crack down. That should worry us a lot more.

If Bitcoin ever becomes what you and I hope it becomes, then it will be a real threat to TPTB in China and they will have the means, motive and opportunity to stop it if more than half of all the mines are within their borders. There is absolutely no fucking way that Bitcoin can achieve major currency status without either being fought or co-opted by the State.  That is inevitable and right now we have no plans to deal with it.

[arklan]

just to poke my head in real quick:

i've been absent from here for months. bitcoin xt? classic? gavin jumped ship? wtf is going on?!

and yet the price hasn't gone tits up... confused.

[Dotto]

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^Keeps stealing my memes.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

2nd Classic block mined? Ffs.

Gentlemand, are you ok with this??

[adamstgBit]

just to poke my head in real quick:

i've been absent from here for months. bitcoin xt? classic? gavin jumped ship? wtf is going on?!

and yet the price hasn't gone tits up... confused.

Gavin is grasping at straws to remain relevant, and apparently market finds this entertaining.

[adamstgBit]

i'll bet 1$ on >410 in <1hour

You're on. No need for escrow. I trust you.

woot!

ok,  if price hits >410 within 50mins you pay me 1$ if not i pay you 1$, bitstamps price.

I was gonna say BFX, but Stamp works for me. Tic, tic, tic...

~20 mins left and i still need to see 1/2 1/4 million dollars get dumped on stamps.

double or nothing? for >410 in the next hour.

[tex99]

just to poke my head in real quick:

i've been absent from here for months. bitcoin xt? classic? gavin jumped ship? wtf is going on?!

and yet the price hasn't gone tits up... confused.

It's good news that crashes the price, not bad news. If ebay decides to start directly accepting bitcoin as a payment method the price will get crashed down to double digits the same day. Let's hope China bans bitcoin again because it will probably push the price to a new ATH.

[gentlemand]

2nd Classic block mined? Ffs.

Gentlemand, are you ok with this??

I don't even know how a radio works when you close the window. Best ask someone else.

[billyjoeallen]

The Chinese government won't confiscate all the mining farms to do a 51% attack. It would give people a bad impression of them. If they were to take any action against bitcoin or the farms it would be to make mining illegal in China and outlawing the possession of bitcoins. They already banned/unbanned bitcoin multiple times and I don't rule out them banning/unbanning it again, but I don't think it's likely.

This is the most ignorant, naive statement I could imagine. Ever heard of the Tiananmen Square massacre?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

You think the ChiComs care more about our impression of them than their sovereignty, you don't know them.

If Bitcoin interferes with China's economic/monetary policy, they have the means motive and opportunity to stop us.  If Bitcoin DOESN'T interfere with policy, then what's the fucking point?

If Bitcoin is needed, it will be fought and possibly killed. If it is not needed, then it will probably die from lack of demand.

This is why concentration of mining matters. 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The Chinese government won't confiscate all the mining farms to do a 51% attack. It would give people a bad impression of them. If they were to take any action against bitcoin or the farms it would be to make mining illegal in China and outlawing the possession of bitcoins. They already banned/unbanned bitcoin multiple times and I don't rule out them banning/unbanning it again, but I don't think it's likely.

This is the most ignorant, naive statement I could imagine. Ever heard of the Tiananmen Square massacre?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

You think the ChiComs care more about our impression of them than their sovereignty, you don't know them.

If Bitcoin interferes with China's economic/monetary policy, they have the means motive and opportunity to stop us.  If Bitcoin DOESN'T interfere with policy, then what's the fucking point?

If Bitcoin is needed, it will be fought and possibly killed. If it is not needed, then it will probably die from lack of demand.

This is why concentration of mining matters. 

A bunch of wacky double spends? What's the worst that could happen?

[adamstgBit]

just to poke my head in real quick:

i've been absent from here for months. bitcoin xt? classic? gavin jumped ship? wtf is going on?!

and yet the price hasn't gone tits up... confused.

It's good news that crashes the price, not bad news. If ebay decides to start directly accepting bitcoin as a payment method the price will get crashed down to double digits the same day. Let's hope China bans bitcoin again because it will probably push the price to a new ATH.

in a bear market, good news can only temporarily hold price from dropping
in a bull market, bad news can only temporarily hold price from rising

the markets reaction to the "news" is confirming we are in a bull market.

[billyjoeallen]

i'll bet 1$ on >410 in <1hour

You're on. No need for escrow. I trust you.

woot!

ok,  if price hits >410 within 50mins you pay me 1$ if not i pay you 1$, bitstamps price.

I was gonna say BFX, but Stamp works for me. Tic, tic, tic...

~20 mins left and i still need to see 1/2 1/4 million dollars get dumped on stamps.

double or nothing? for >410 in the next hour.

Done!

[adamstgBit]

ok if I can all get you mofos to buy 10 BTC right now i'd be halfway to getting my 1$ back.

[arklan]

ok if I can all get you mofos to buy 10 BTC right now i'd be halfway to getting my 1$ back.

paypal me a few thousand and i'll be happy to.

[Adrian-x]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600781/technical-roadblock-might-shatter-bitcoin-dreams/

OMIGOD. Why wasn't I informed of this? I want Blockstream on the line right now for me refund.

"There is general agreement in the Bitcoin community that the system must remain decentralized to prevent the possibility of any company or government controlling the currency."

So we decentralize by putting three quarters of our mines in one government's jurisdiction? 

Why am I the only one apparently concerned by this? Everybody cool with Chinese government's hand on the kill switch?

... at which point a HF does become necessary and a new POW algorithm will be adopted, something more centralising-resistant.

>"more centralising-resistant."
you know why mining is consolidating? (hint its not centralizing)  It's because efficiencies in algorithm processing are being horded by the ASIC fabricators. As this technology democratizes (natural market competition) mining consolidation will biggin to diversify. It's a lack of understanding that leads to the mental shortcut that mining consolidation can be projected in a linear fashion until there is one cartel.  

Making the treat to choose a new PoW algorithm is an attack on the very incentive needed to motivate investment to grow and secure the network.  

I completely agree with this. What is needed is not less mines in China, But more mines outside of China.  It should worry all of us that this isn't happening to any meaningful degree.  Electrical power is 2 cents/kilowatthour in Eastern Washington, right outside of Microsoft's back door, so why are we letting the Chinese dominate mining?

I'll tell you why: The few American chip makers in the space like 21 are indeed hoarding the chips. This is a huge mistake, because they are onboarding all the risk. Sell miners and make money or keep them and mine. And then double down again by keeping the coins instead of selling them.

You may be good at speculating/trading
You may be good at making ASICS
You may be good at mining

But the chances are infinitesimal that you can be good at all three very difficult, competitive and specialized skills. 

i hate to break it to you, but fear of the chinese government confiscating all the mining farm in order to attempt a 51% attack is an irrational  fear.

short of this highly fantastic sanario, i see no problem having majority of hashing power where the majority of poeple on earth live.

Gmax is concerned that they own bitcoin, and bitcoin is controlled by 3 people, not that the government will try and confiscate there technology.

he's delusional , but that's what he thinks, yes just 3 people! and if you question him your wrong!