Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Fatman3001]

but in this particular issue its just the other way around! the community, the exchanges, the economy, some devs, some core devs AND the miners agree pretty much on a way forward. its just a small group of core-devs (even a minority INSIDE of core) that wants to force its will onto millions of others.

its ridiculous!

The vast majority are ok with the compromise. A few insist on classic HF or a 1MB4evah.

So if we have like

90 (segwit+hf later as long as there is a time schedule for it)
5 (only hf2mb)
5 (only segwit)

The "5"s, won't matter that much.

As long as wladimir refuses to put his foot down, they will.

[bargainbin]

...
Yeah I dunno I've never really understood that kind of greed. It's like you can only drive 1 car at a time right so I don't want a red, orange, yellow, and black lambo (though it would be nice to have 1). Actually come to think of it life is pretty fine for me I do own my house and my bmw and usually sit on my ass all day trading bitcoin in my pajamas and listening to music or just do whatever I feel like with my time. Hmmm maybe I'm rich enough already to be happy and ought to just give up this bitcoin thing ? naaaahhhhh    

Lambos are to cars what a porn stars are to sex -- ridiculous, showy, would be embarrassed to be seen in one.
Car freaks I know drive shitboxen/really boring "grown up" cars for daily drivers -- people who race modded P-51s are probably no different -- probably drive something lame too. I mean, if you fly @ 500mph a few feet off the ground, an occasional 180mph blip on the highway won't be much of a rush.
It's not about conspicuous consumption.

The people with money I know aren't necessarily greedy -- they're often stingy, to the point where I wind up adding to the tip when we go out for lunch (because they figured it out *to the penny*). They're into money the same [personal, irrational] way I like '50s to '70s mechanical things that go fast. They don't need the money they make, I don't need to fuck with weird cars so they would handle a hair better & go a few mph faster. Money's not a means to get something else for them, it's an end in itself -- no different than obsessing about weird cars/bikes/toob gear/BTC/old guitars.
Just something they like.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Pathological interest in muscle cars and toob gear. Lambie what kind of evil are you?

[Matias]

Yes, of course, you're totally bang on with your assessment. If there were a serious attack like this I suspect there might be a fork, maybe...

-----

If you want to perform such an attack regardless of cost, and with unlimited budget, I believe it has already been proven that the Byzantine general's problem is unsolvable, (lacking sufficient incentives)

It's likely that the incentive structure is the only thing that truly protects the blockchain.

A fork, sure, but a fork to what? Short of changing the hashing algorithm, I don't see what's going to prevent a destructive miner from shitting all over the new fork, too.

So: double-spends for direct economic gain don't seem likely to be a huge problem. Miners disrupting the network for political reasons (or ransom, for that matter) seems like it could be an issue, but it's hard to estimate how likely such an attack would be.

I don't think you can ever create a currency, which cannot be attacked with sufficient resources. Best we can do, is to create a systems in which attack costs more than gain. Bitcoin has reached that.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Always the same scheme. Pump it till 430-450 and sell... Why can´t they simply let it grow?

You need to take that up with Adam Back and Blockstream. If bitcoin wont grow, there is nothing left to do except profit from momentary pumps.

If fools think "1MB4EVA!" and "BTC is cheap" then traders like me who know better* will make a killing.

 


* When the majority of Miners are taken in by slideshows about "how democracy is about wolves and lambz", then you gotta take money from them.

[billyjoeallen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46po4l/we_have_consensus_in_april_we_get_sw_3_months/d082hi8

This is what I predicted. The holdout elements in Core object to the very IDEA of political compromise because they see it as a betrayal of engineering principles.  This plays right into bigblocker hands, of course, because Now the miners will know what we have been dealing with all this time. Smallblockers will not compromise. ever. The only option is to route around the roadblock with Classic or something like it.

The sane elements in core know that they are in danger of getting left behind by the "economic majority" and they will concede and agree to the Roundtable agreement. So Core is split. That's good news. it's what we wanted. Divide and Conquer.

Now instead of Core against the world, it's half of core against the world.  The purists smallblockers will win because there is bias for the status quo in their governance model. They will win the battle and lose the war.

Core will reject the agreement and the miners will reject Core.  Classic comes out on top.

Cheap coins ahead!

[ImI]

but in this particular issue its just the other way around! the community, the exchanges, the economy, some devs, some core devs AND the miners agree pretty much on a way forward. its just a small group of core-devs (even a minority INSIDE of core) that wants to force its will onto millions of others.

its ridiculous!

The vast majority are ok with the compromise. A few insist on classic HF or a 1MB4evah.

So if we have like

90 (segwit+hf later as long as there is a time schedule for it)
5 (only hf2mb)
5 (only segwit)

The "5"s, won't matter that much.

lets see, i am waiting for a core statement

[bargainbin]

...
* When the majority of Miners are taken in by slideshows about "how democracy is about wolves and lambz", then you gotta take money from them.

(swallowed coffee before reading, so it's all good)

[coins101]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46po4l/we_have_consensus_in_april_we_get_sw_3_months/d082hi8

This is what I predicted. The holdout elements in Core object to the very IDEA of political compromise because they see it as a betrayal of engineering principles.  This plays right into bigblocker hands, of course, because Now the miners will know what we have been dealing with all this time. Smallblockers will not compromise. ever. The only option is to route around the roadblock with Classic or something like it.

The sane elements in core know that they are in danger of getting left behind by the "economic majority" and they will concede and agree to the Roundtable agreement. So Core is split. That's good news. it's what we wanted. Divide and Conquer.

Now instead of Core against the world, it's half of core against the world.  The purists smallblockers will win because there is bias for the status quo in their governance model. They will win the battle and lose the war.

Core will reject the agreement and the miners will reject Core.  Classic comes out on top.

Cheap coins ahead!

WTB cheap coins.

PM

[ImI]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46po4l/we_have_consensus_in_april_we_get_sw_3_months/d082hi8

This is what I predicted. The holdout elements in Core object to the very IDEA of political compromise because they see it as a betrayal of engineering principles.  This plays right into bigblocker hands, of course, because Now the miners will know what we have been dealing with all this time. Smallblockers will not compromise. ever. The only option is to route around the roadblock with Classic or something like it.

The sane elements in core know that they are in danger of getting left behind by the "economic majority" and they will concede and agree to the Roundtable agreement. So Core is split. That's good news. it's what we wanted. Divide and Conquer.

Now instead of Core against the world, it's half of core against the world.  The purists smallblockers will win because there is bias for the status quo in their governance model. They will win the battle and lose the war.

Core will reject the agreement and the miners will reject Core.  Classic comes out on top.

Cheap coins ahead!

imo as the dust settles we start to recognize who seem to be the participants that were blocking from the beginning. it narrows down to friedenbach and gmax, whereas its not yet clear if gmax is OK with the "consensus". lets see what core has to say the coming days. if friedenbach wants to make his friedenbach-coin he is free to do so.

[Fatman3001]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46po4l/we_have_consensus_in_april_we_get_sw_3_months/d082hi8

This is what I predicted. The holdout elements in Core object to the very IDEA of political compromise because they see it as a betrayal of engineering principles.  This plays right into bigblocker hands, of course, because Now the miners will know what we have been dealing with all this time. Smallblockers will not compromise. ever. The only option is to route around the roadblock with Classic or something like it.

The sane elements in core know that they are in danger of getting left behind by the "economic majority" and they will concede and agree to the Roundtable agreement. So Core is split. That's good news. it's what we wanted. Divide and Conquer.

Now instead of Core against the world, it's half of core against the world.  The purists smallblockers will win because there is bias for the status quo in their governance model. They will win the battle and lose the war.

Core will reject the agreement and the miners will reject Core.  Classic comes out on top.

Cheap coins ahead!

How the fuck did The South lose?

[bargainbin]

... Core will reject the agreement and the miners will reject Core. ...

BTC CYOA:
☐  and then they lived happily ever after.
☑  everyone loses. I win

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

lol! now friedenbach threatens with a change of PoW.

seems like some part of core is really decisive about being left behind by the community.

It's like a fucking kindergarten.

Although I am no Friedenbach fanboi, I think we agree on this:

I feel this meeting was antithetical to Bitcoin and no good outcomes were likely

Anyone who still labours under the misapprehension that the roundtable  was a good thing for bitcoin needs to re-examine their understanding of Bitcoin,

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[xxxxxzzzzz]

...
Yeah I dunno I've never really understood that kind of greed. It's like you can only drive 1 car at a time right so I don't want a red, orange, yellow, and black lambo (though it would be nice to have 1). Actually come to think of it life is pretty fine for me I do own my house and my bmw and usually sit on my ass all day trading bitcoin in my pajamas and listening to music or just do whatever I feel like with my time. Hmmm maybe I'm rich enough already to be happy and ought to just give up this bitcoin thing ? naaaahhhhh    

Lambos are to cars what a porn stars are to sex -- ridiculous, showy, would be embarrassed to be seen in one.
Car freaks I know drive shitboxen/really boring "grown up" cars for daily drivers -- people who race modded P-51s are probably no different -- probably drive something lame too. I mean, if you fly @ 500mph a few feet off the ground, an occasional 180mph blip on the highway won't be much of a rush.
It's not about conspicuous consumption.

The people with money I know aren't necessarily greedy -- they're often stingy, to the point where I wind up adding to the tip when we go out for lunch (because they figured it out *to the penny*). They're into money the same [personal, irrational] way I like '50s to '70s mechanical things that go fast. They don't need the money they make, I don't need to fuck with weird cars so they would handle a hair better & go a few mph faster. Money's not a means to get something else for them, it's an end in itself -- no different than obsessing about weird cars/bikes/toob gear/BTC/old guitars.
Just something they like.

Oh yeah I don't think I'd ever own a lambo I was just using that as an example of an expensive unnecessary thing a greedy person might want. I'd rather have an old 50s chevy hotrod myself if I was going to get something impractical for a toy. Seems like one of those planes would cost an awful lot for basically a toy for an adrenaline rush and to some extent would be a status symbol necessitating some level of greed, maybe that's not the right word, lust for interest in or obsession with maybe would have been more correct? Honestly I didn't look real closely at it I assumed it was a private jet. I still think it's weird to see money as an end in itself. It's supposed to buy you things for utility use and fun. My skis cost like 300. Kayak like 500. All my hiking gear maybe a grand total. Chessboard was like 50 bucks. I guess I have cheap hobbies / interests. Didn't realize I was talking to lambie been kindof avoiding the forum you must be doing well it's been pleasant interacting with you never thought I'd see the day. Did I have a stroke what the F is going on here? heheh

[ImI]

lol! now friedenbach threatens with a change of PoW.

seems like some part of core is really decisive about being left behind by the community.

It's like a fucking kindergarten.

Although I am no Friedenbach fanboi, I think we agree on this:

I feel this meeting was antithetical to Bitcoin and no good outcomes were likely

Anyone who still labours under the misapprehension that the roundtable  was a good thing for bitcoin needs to re-examine their understanding of Bitcoin,

you see, in bitcoin we have only one real built in way to reach consensus, its PoW. apart from that we simply have no way of knowing what the community/economy/... wants. so basically you will always have to have meetups and there will always be somebody who wasnt there. we cant have an election like in other systems. and we cant have a survey that would lead to comprehensive results. we cant have one stake = one vote either.

[yefi]

It's fucking Divine Right of Kings. Do you think parliament could have forced King John to sign the Magna Carta without an army at their backs?

King John couldn't believe in the divine right of kings because the concept didn't exist then in Western thought. I wouldn't use the term parliament to refer to the rebel barons either - they weren't one.

I'll grade you a 'c' - nice effort  

[billyjoeallen]

Core developers honestly and sincerely want to write the best code. What the Core developers don't understand is that the best code doesn't win. The code that gives people the best value wins. It's why Microsoft beat Apple in the 1980s.  MSDOS was shit code, but it was free.  We used it.

Core is effectively wanting to charge for their code with miner fees. They aren't really miner fees, they're Core fees. Miners have made it clear they don't want them, they would rather have blockrewards of a rapidly appreciating currency.

The market always has the last word. The market wants value.  We don't want a luxury network of highest level security. A luxury is by definition something you don't need. With mining concentrated in China, highest level security isn't possible anyway.   

[coins101]

Core developers honestly and sincerely want to write the best code. What the Core developers don't understand is that the best code doesn't win. The code that gives people the best value wins. It's why Microsoft beat Apple in the 1980s.  MSDOS was shit code, but it was free.  We used it.

Core is effectively wanting to charge for their code with miner fees. They aren't really miner fees, they're Core fees. Miners have made it clear they don't want them, they would rather have blockrewards of a rapidly appreciating currency.

The market always has the last word. The market wants value.  We don't want a luxury network of highest level security. A luxury is by definition something you don't need. With mining concentrated in China, highest level security isn't possible anyway.   

SidechainOverlay trickery doesn't sound so compelling without fees. 

Now we get closer to understanding the manipulating hand behind the thrown.