Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Dafar]

Buy now, or wait for the weekend dip?

i'm waiting for a dip,
but i dont NEED to buy.... i will survive the coming fiat melt down 

Ended up buying some more right now.... waiting for the weekend dip cost me a $50 premium, fuck 

[JayJuanGee]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit.  

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

EDIT:  PS... @ADAM::: I see that you pretty much recognized the BFX coin issue in your subsequent posts, so my above reiteration of points that you seem to have recognized seems to be a bit redundant (nonetheless, I will leave my above post in place, since I had already written and posted it)

[adamstgBit]

Buy now, or wait for the weekend dip?

i'm waiting for a dip,
but i dont NEED to buy.... i will survive the coming fiat melt down 

Ended up buying some more right now.... waiting for the weekend dip cost me a $50 premium, fuck 

mean while i'm still waiting

[adamstgBit]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit. 

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

yup i stopped reading their announcement at after i read the bit about 36% generalized loss

totally missed the other important bit.

[Globb0]

[LogHangingConsortium]

^Getting dangerously close to altcoin discussion.

But back to the walls, any rumors on when BFX plans to refloat the Titanic restoke Chernobyl bring the site back online?  Heard something about Monday in zombie mode, should we start painting victory stripes yet?

P.S. watching huobi chart on bitcoinwisdom, look over to the other markets in the top bar, and "huh, finex is up to 604 already ... ? Doh!"

my guess is: "zombie mode" as early as monday, and back to full operation by friday.

provided things go smoothly and no one try to sue them or somthing.

Nothing stopping people from suing after they get their 64% out of that bad neighborhood.
If a mugger tells you he'll return half of your money if you promise not to go to the cops, whatever you tell the mugger won't be considered binding by the court.

Yeah, people will sue. 100% chance.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop from the rep. I'm betting on something negative in a few days, to swing the price down. I would.

i've explained this 100X
suing bitfinex will get you a far worse deal then they are offering.

People will get what BFX is offering before they sue. Once they have their 64% in hand, they'll sue. Whatever they get from that if bonus

I however might be buying the tokens.

I'd try to stop you, but you'd probably go ahead and buy those titanic tickets just to spite me.
Fine, it's your money. Lose as much of it as you want.

bitfinex fucked up, sure, but IMO they are handling this exceptionally well. with a  better security model, and some time, i now believe they can once again be #1 BTC/USD exchange.

BFX chose quick profits over security. It did this knowingly. Btcdark said they refused peer review of their wallet implementation. Now they''re finished. If you manage to get anything more than a promise of 64% out of BFX, count your blessings. But no, you are thinking of buying their tokens

the MTGOX explosion and Bitfinex are as different as night and day.

Is it because MagicalTux didn't think of issuing GOXtokens. If he just knew how stupid people really are, he'd still be running the biggest Bitcoin exchange, with brisk trade in Goxtokens, BFXtokens, and Cryptsytokens.

i am impressed with their swift and fair actions.

Send me your money, if you get any back from BFX.  I'll impress you even more. Might give you back a whole 65%.
But then again, to what end? You'd probably be just as impressed if I gave back any at all.

Even though you are coming off as a fucking goofball troll

That's as far as I needed to read. Choke on a bag of dicks.

[adamstgBit]

I however might be buying the tokens.

I'd try to stop you, but you'd probably go ahead and buy those titanic tickets just to spite me.
Fine, it's your money. Lose as much of it as you want.

let me use this reply to say a few things

first off, given the opportunity to hold a dividend paying share of a bitcoin exchange company would be fun and probably very lucrative.
if you believe BFX will one day be #1 BTC/USD exchange and bitcoin itself will grow, then  holding shares in bitfinex is an opportunity

second, what i love most about bitcoin is how it levels the playing field and allows someone like me ( not a whale, but a tiny fish ) to be presented with that  opportunity. when sdice sold shares i was right there next to gigantic whales buying IPO.

third, i dont trust you with my money  

[JayJuanGee]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit. 

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

yup i stopped reading their announcement at after i read the bit about 36% generalized loss

totally missed the other important bit.

These kinds of matters are fast moving, and it is totally understandable that some of us are going to miss important information and may even need to retract or alter our perspectives. 

I also think that many of us may have quite a bit of skepticism regarding BFX's story, but still if they come out with and employ a fairly reasonable plan forward, they may be able to retain a decent trading market share (whether that's from existing users or new users).. for example, if the BFX coin ends up sufficiently appreciating in value to largely repay losses, then that could be a significant boon for BFX's business.  On the other hand, there are also some possible very negative scenarios too, such as additional hacks or additional appearances of scamming by BFX that causes their credibility to completely wane and the BFX coins lose value (I imagine that the BFX coins are starting out at zero value, or near zero value, but it remains a very innovative possible way of generating continued loser stake in the success of BFX and even allows for the BFX coin holders to employ their gambling (trading) inclinations).

[Holliday]

While the numbers are tallied " internally or on paper," who actually holds the funds? Whose wallets?
How would you do it? Walk me through.

First, what is my M.O.? Protect users funds, steal from users illegally, or steal from users legally?

If it's: Provide services that gamblers traders demand while keeping their deposits safe and complying with all regulations. Fuck that. I'd rather chew glass. Beside, you aren't paying me enough.

Also, fuck legal/financial definitions, I'm only interested in reality. If you want to actually "own" bitcoins (in a way where another individual requires your permission to obtain the asset), see my sig. Anything short of that comes with the risk of total loss.

[JayJuanGee]

Globb0:   From my little understanding of the BFX coin situation, your post makes little sense - because it is very likely that BFX coins are going to start out at zero or very close to zero value.. therefore,  the likely price direction is going to be up, but you could be correct that the value of the BFX coin could decrease in value or it could flatten out and not really increase in value over time.

Nonetheless, my point is that the starting point is at or near zero, not some elevated place that is going to allow or cause depreciation... unless BFX coin holders are paying others to take their BFX coins, which makes little sense

[adamstgBit]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit.  

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

yup i stopped reading their announcement at after i read the bit about 36% generalized loss

totally missed the other important bit.

These kinds of matters are fast moving, and it is totally understandable that some of us are going to miss important information and may even need to retract or alter our perspectives.  

I also think that many of us may have quite a bit of skepticism regarding BFX's story, but still if they come out with and employ a fairly reasonable plan forward, they may be able to retain a decent trading market share (whether that's from existing users or new users).. for example, if the BFX coin ends up sufficiently appreciating in value to largely repay losses, then that could be a significant boon for BFX's business.  On the other hand, there are also some possible very negative scenarios too, such as additional hacks or additional appearances of scamming by BFX that causes their credibility to completely wane and the BFX coins lose value (I imagine that the BFX coins are starting out at zero value, or near zero value, but it remains a very innovative possible way of generating continued loser stake in the success of BFX and even allows for the BFX coin holders to employ their gambling (trading) inclinations).

its unclear what the BFX token will represent they clearly state that has not be decided, but appear to point toward shares representing some % of bitfinex which may or may not be dividend paying shares, based on some % of BFX net profits going forward.

this assumption is based on this line:

for shares of iFinex Inc.

if that is the case then i would imagine these tokens will not start off at zero
i would assume an IPO at a fixed price, followed by a open market for buy/selling "shares of iFinex Inc."

i look forward to learning more about these "shares of iFinex Inc.".

i'll consider the terms and conditions and might actually be a buyer, if i can....

[JayJuanGee]

Even though you are coming off as a fucking goofball troll

That's as far as I needed to read. Choke on a bag of dicks.

You and your other sock puppet NLC accounts, should attempt to learn how to not be so sensitive about words that are used on the internet in order to communicate points, and maybe if you began to read a bit more, then you might be able to arrive at more meaningful and accurate assessments (and possibly even could become reflected in improved quality in your future posts, well I doubt it, but still does not hurt to hope a little, no?)

[LogHangingConsortium]

if you believe BFX will one day be #1 BTC/USD exchange and bitcoin itself will grow, then  

...you should march yourself to the closest booby hatch and have yourself committed. Tell them to throw away the key.

second, what i love most about bitcoin is how it levels the playing field and allows someone like me ( not a whale, but a tiny fish ) to be presented with that  opportunity. when sdice sold shares i was right there next to gigantic whales buying IPO.

The reason the whole "qualified investor" thing came about is because fast-talkin' city-slickers kept selling Einsteins like you shares in cars that will run on water and cat poop, magnetic resonance monorails, and similar "this thing can't loose" propositions. And now, after getting robbed by a French man running a HK exchange through a BVI shell, instead of taking a fucking sober look at who you've been giving your money to, you want to fucking double down and buy some tokens Speechless.

third, i dont trust you with my money  

Was it me saying I'm gonna rob you that set off your super-sophisticated scam alarm?

[criptix]

The BFX tokens will remain outstanding until redeemed in full by Bitfinex or possibly exchanged—upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance—for shares of iFinex Inc. We are still sorting out many details on this; we will post further updates in the coming days.

that is what you people are looking for and right now they promise:

1. full payback of the loss btc in the future

or

2. shares of bitfinex or rather iFinex Inc. (not sure if iFinex Inc actually includes more then bitfinex.com - there is nearly no information)


/edit

look what i found while searching for iFinex Inc data:

http://www.cftc.gov/idc/groups/public/@lrenforcementactions/documents/legalpleading/enfbfxnaorder060216.pdf

[LogHangingConsortium]

They promise that the tokens "will remain outstanding." That could mean "a year" or "until we feel like doing something about them, or the end of the world -- whichever comes first."

Some promise :\

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

its unclear what the BFX token will represent they clearly state that has not be decided, but appear to point toward shares representing some % of bitfinex which may or may not be dividend paying shares, based on some % of BFX net profits going forward.

this assumption is based on this line:

for shares of iFinex Inc.

if that is the case then i would imagine these tokens will not start off at zero
i would assume an IPO at a fixed price, followed by a open market for buy/selling "shares of iFinex Inc."

i look forward to learning more about these "shares of iFinex Inc.".

i'll consider the terms and conditions and might actually be a buyer, if i can....

Adam:  Largely we agree; however, I would like to clarify a couple of points (and maybe even differences in our thinking).

you seem to be getting caught up in my assertion that the BFX coins (or the items that you want to emphasize as "shares" ) is going to have zero or near zero value at the outset...

Sure, BFX can structure the value of the BFX coins at whatever they like, yet in the end, since the BFX coins initially represent debt, they are going to represent the total 36% shaving that account holders are going to take.

Hypothetically, one way of giving value to the coins is to recognize that the total loss was only 30%; however, since BFX wants to give some value to the coins, from the start, they use the additional 6% to create coin value out of the gate.  I personally think that would be dumb to give the coins very much value, but yeah, they can structure the value assessment however they like... and maybe "zero" is not feasible;however, near zero would be more feasible.

So, yeah, in the end, we can consider this matter as share holders in a company.. If we hold accounts at bitfinex, we have been forced bail out shareholders in a company, and if we are not account holders in bitfinex, we can become share holders by acquiring some BFX coins, as you indicated.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Adam, I want you to think about this for a minute.

Adam:  Largely we agree

[explorer]

Adam, I want you to think about this for a minute.

Adam:  Largely we agree

 WARNING!
A full minute may result in fire hazard

[criptix]

i think adam is getting his btc out of cold storage to dump them.

[...] and he was never to be seen again.

[Lionidas]

i think adam is getting his btc out of cold storage to dump them.

[...] and he was never to be seen again.

I will buy some of those frosty coins then.