Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[LogHangingConsortium]

Adam, I want you to think about this for a minute.

Adam:  Largely we agree

BlindMayorBitcorn: Largely, we agree; however, before I meander on my usual tangents necessitating further qualification, I would like to clarify a couple of points I would like to qualify. The potentiality of recursive qualification of being, e.g. unqualified instantiation i.e. the thing in and of itself manifesting itself in a fashion which may, though is not currently, recursively, and/or regressively, qualified.

Which is not to say our proverbial snake is eating its tail inasmuch as a snake could be said to have a well-defined tail, but that the part of the snake which may be thought of as a tail by a raw neophyte, is choking, via inserti

[savetherainforest]

Adam, I want you to think about this for a minute.

Adam:  Largely we agree

 WARNING!
A full minute may result in fire hazard

This forum feels like its loading under pressure... DDOS attack occurring? 

[RGR991]

so I am reading more and more about Finex...36% haircut, a "token" for your losses..a token that US traders(which make up the majority of their base probably) may not even be able to "trade" this token.

Seizing assets across all the asset classes not just BTC balance is just plain theft..

LOL.

And Finex thinks they will survive this and go on business as usual..  


Thx god I don't have money on this exchange, feel bad for those that do.



btw: Take any money you have on Finex and run run run away, I have a feeling the CFTC or SEC will take some action if they are able to

[adamstgBit]

i was afk.

[edited out]

its unclear what the BFX token will represent they clearly state that has not be decided, but appear to point toward shares representing some % of bitfinex which may or may not be dividend paying shares, based on some % of BFX net profits going forward.

this assumption is based on this line:

for shares of iFinex Inc.

if that is the case then i would imagine these tokens will not start off at zero
i would assume an IPO at a fixed price, followed by a open market for buy/selling "shares of iFinex Inc."

i look forward to learning more about these "shares of iFinex Inc.".

i'll consider the terms and conditions and might actually be a buyer, if i can....

Adam:  Largely we agree; however, I would like to clarify a couple of points (and maybe even differences in our thinking).

you seem to be getting caught up in my assertion that the BFX coins (or the items that you want to emphasize as "shares" ) is going to have zero or near zero value at the outset...

it all depends on what these tokens represent.... if they represent a share in their company i dont understand why you would think its value would be 0.

Sure, BFX can structure the value of the BFX coins at whatever they like, yet in the end, since the BFX coins initially represent debt, they are going to represent the total 36% shaving that account holders are going to take.

it is my understanding that they will not really represent debt, but rather these tokens ( whatever their exact meaning is ) are payment in full of the 36% loss.

Hypothetically, one way of giving value to the coins is to recognize that the total loss was only 30%; however, since BFX wants to give some value to the coins, from the start, they use the additional 6% to create coin value out of the gate.  I personally think that would be dumb to give the coins very much value, but yeah, they can structure the value assessment however they like... and maybe "zero" is not feasible;however, near zero would be more feasible.

what the tokens they hand out are have no meaning at this point, BFX will soon make an update probably describing exactly what these tokens represent and the terms and condition of holding this token.

So, yeah, in the end, we can consider this matter as share holders in a company.. If we hold accounts at bitfinex, we have been forced bail out shareholders in a company, and if we are not account holders in bitfinex, we can become share holders by acquiring some BFX coins, as you indicated.

Right

but IMO they could have simply done the bail-in and leave it at that.
they are GIVING you shares in their company as compensation.

its not a half bad deal if you consider the alternative of taking them to court  and having to wait years for what would end up being a repayment of pretty much the same as there bail-in ~65%.

[European Central Bank]

https://news.bitcoin.com/heres-bitfinex-not-like-mtgox/

here's an article by a real live attorney about the bitfinex clusterfuck. if the bitfinex management think they're gonna sail away into the future without a care in the world, they might need to reconsider...

[conspirosphere.tk]

its not a half bad deal if you consider the alternative of taking them to court  and having to wait years for what would end up being a repayment of pretty much the same as there bail-in ~65%.

lol on the "not" a half bad deal. The owners and managers should have paid out of their pockets if they were serious.
But what makes you think that no one will sue them?

[adamstgBit]

https://news.bitcoin.com/heres-bitfinex-not-like-mtgox/

here's an article by a real live attorney about the bitfinex clusterfuck. if the bitfinex management think they're gonna sail away into the future without a care in the world, they might need to reconsider...

TL;DR;

but i did read this.

However, under Hong Kong law, Bitfinex will not be able to force creditors to accept its proposal. Unlike in the US and Japan, Hong Kong does not have a system of bankruptcy protection to facilitate a Bitfinex reorganization. By arguing that Bitfinex is insolvent, creditor lawsuits could force Bitfinex into liquidation where creditors can take control.

and of course no one has to accept it, i dont believe going to court would yield a better result or less of a haircut to BFX's users, but wtf do i know.

i would imagine the bigger players from BFX are talking to their lawyers now, it wont be long until we know for sure if they will take the settlement or go to court.

[adamstgBit]

its not a half bad deal if you consider the alternative of taking them to court  and having to wait years for what would end up being a repayment of pretty much the same as there bail-in ~65%.

lol on the "not" a half bad deal. The owners and managers should have paid out of their pockets if they were serious.
But what makes you think that no one will sue them?

you can't go after the owners for more money.

if you sue you sue "bitfinex" and bitfinex is broke and can't afford to do any better than what they are doing now.

( but, i'm no lawyer... can't be sure if this is a correct statement )

[adamstgBit]

hey its back up

https://www.bitfinex.com/

[adamstgBit]

Site Relaunch
August 07, 2016
We are beginning the process of bringing the platform online in a controlled and secure way. Currently the site is available on a read-only basis as we continue to work towards enabling full functionality. This means that users will be able to log into their accounts but trading, depositing, and withdrawing will remain disabled at this time.

Please be aware of the following changes required by the ongoing platform recovery:

Users will be required to reset their password.
Users will be required to reset their 2FA, if applicable.
Clef has been disabled for all accounts. We have reset our security keys with Clef, requiring users to re-enroll.
All API keys have been revoked. The creation of new API keys will be re-enabled within the next 48 hours.
Please take this time to log in and review your account and balances, taking note of the adjustments caused by the closing of open margin positions and the application of the Extraordinary Loss Adjustment. The loss adjustment is represented by your balance in “BFX” tokens which are priced at 1.00 USD until we are able to allow trading of that token, likely within the next week. The trading of BFX tokens may be restricted for US customers.

Full platform functionality will come online in progressive steps in the coming days. Withdrawing, depositing and exchange trading will come online first, with margin trading (for non-US customers) to resume sometime after that. Further announcements will be made when the schedule for turning on those features is finalized. Once again, we thank you for your patience.

The Bitfinex Team

[MatTheCat]

Site Relaunch
August 07, 2016
We are beginning the process of bringing the platform online in a controlled and secure way. Currently the site is available on a read-only basis as we continue to work towards enabling full functionality. This means that users will be able to log into their accounts but trading, depositing, and withdrawing will remain disabled at this time.

Please be aware of the following changes required by the ongoing platform recovery:

Users will be required to reset their password.
Users will be required to reset their 2FA, if applicable.
Clef has been disabled for all accounts. We have reset our security keys with Clef, requiring users to re-enroll.
All API keys have been revoked. The creation of new API keys will be re-enabled within the next 48 hours.
Please take this time to log in and review your account and balances, taking note of the adjustments caused by the closing of open margin positions and the application of the Extraordinary Loss Adjustment. The loss adjustment is represented by your balance in “BFX” tokens which are priced at 1.00 USD until we are able to allow trading of that token, likely within the next week. The trading of BFX tokens may be restricted for US customers.

Full platform functionality will come online in progressive steps in the coming days. Withdrawing, depositing and exchange trading will come online first, with margin trading (for non-US customers) to resume sometime after that. Further announcements will be made when the schedule for turning on those features is finalized. Once again, we thank you for your patience.

The Bitfinex Team

So, who is going to be stupid enough to lay a finger on their BFX tokens?

[LogHangingConsortium]

^Adam said he's thinking about it. For his sake, I hope he's lying.

https://www.bitfinex.com/security_policy

[conspirosphere.tk]

hey its back up

https://www.bitfinex.com/

Now check your balances and prepare to trade your freshly minted BFXcoins.
It looks like we gonna need a BFXcoin wall observer thread too now -or maybe not, if they drop to zero and stay there as I would expect.

[adamstgBit]

So, who is going to be stupid enough to lay a finger on their BFX tokens?

i'm a sucker for a sweet deal that no one wants to touch.

[LogHangingConsortium]

So, who is going to be stupid enough to lay a finger on their BFX tokens?

i'm a sucker for a sweet deal that no one wants to touch.

But ...you don't even know what the deal is?
Hey, listen, remember how I said you'll never see your money if you send it to me? I changed my mind. Got this sweet deal in the wings that can double our money in a week. No time to explain, you in?

[savetherainforest]

However, under Hong Kong law, Bitfinex will not be able to force creditors to accept its proposal. Unlike in the US and Japan, Hong Kong does not have a system of bankruptcy protection to facilitate a Bitfinex reorganization. By arguing that Bitfinex is insolvent, creditor lawsuits could force Bitfinex into liquidation where creditors can take control.

and of course no one has to accept it, i dont believe going to court would yield a better result or less of a haircut to BFX's users, but wtf do i know.

i would imagine the bigger players from BFX are talking to their lawyers now, it wont be long until we know for sure if they will take the settlement or go to court.

The crowd will demand confidence or retaliation... I don't see any other outcome! ... And maybe the other exchanges would participate in a small percentage on the bail-out.

The path to confidence is the best option .. but will the odds be in favor of confidence??    

[keewee]

hey its back up

https://www.bitfinex.com/

Great, detailed security page. Reassuring  

[savetherainforest]

hey its back up

https://www.bitfinex.com/

Great, detailed security page. Reassuring  

Maybe they where working on a new platform and it was in a beta stage... or they pulled a miracle out of their asses!   

[adamstgBit]

So, who is going to be stupid enough to lay a finger on their BFX tokens?

i'm a sucker for a sweet deal that no one wants to touch.

But ...you don't even know what the deal is... Hey, listen, remember how I said you'll never see your money if you send it to me? I changed my mind. Got this sweet deal in the wings that can doulble our money in a week. No time to explain, you in?

all i'm saying is ill consider the tokens

i see this as a unique opportunity to own shares in a bitcoin exchange.

but obviously the deal has to be priced right...

[adamstgBit]

hey its back up

https://www.bitfinex.com/

Great, detailed security page. Reassuring  

this page?

https://i.imgsafe.org/7e26c6f700.png