Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[mymenace]

Yeah that's why no one in the world is using wire transfers, you know cause "there is no way as of yet to do a refund or a redo if you send coins wire to the wrong addy,or if you get hacked at home on your PC"  

If all fiat transactions were bank wires, fiat money would have died on the vine & you'd have a great point. As it stands...

all fiat transactions and bank wires will be on the blockchain come 2018

https://www.db.com/newsroom_news/2016/medien/utility-settlement-coin-concept-on-blockchain-gathers-pace-en-11661.htm

[gentlemand]

https://blog.blockchain.com/2016/08/29/an-update-on-thunder-on-chain-settlement-or-claim-all-the-things/

So it seems all this payment channely type stuff may not be quite as straightforward as everyone expects.

[JayJuanGee]

https://blog.blockchain.com/2016/08/29/an-update-on-thunder-on-chain-settlement-or-claim-all-the-things/

So it seems all this payment channely type stuff may not be quite as straightforward as everyone expects.

As consumers or users of bitcoin, we don't necessarily need to know or understand the various technicalities, except to have some faith that other technical folks know and understand what they are doing.

In the end, we work with the interface and if it seems that the funds are secure, then we consider whether it is worth it to us to pay whatever it is that they are charging comparing other competing systems.

Also, even if we are not personally using the various payment systems on a regular basis, we can also remain involved by using the storage of value aspects (hopefully, diversifying, to some extent, our various categories of asset holdings with a reasonable portion held in bitcoin).

[podyx]

It feels like the cryptomarket is just waiting for a solid scaling solution to happen for the price to skyrocket...

[JayJuanGee]

It feels like the cryptomarket is just waiting for a solid scaling solution to happen for the price to skyrocket...

Yeah right.  Haven't you figured it out yet that the scaling issue (solution) is just made up?

The fact of the matter is that scaling is always going to be some kind of concern/issue in bitcoin, and accordingly, from time to time there are going to need to be adjustments and tweaks to balancing usefulness, security and spam... Currently, the blocksize limit is not a problem, and it is just a fabricated problem.  There are tweaks in the works including seg wit that are going to bring additional functionality and abilities to process larger volumes...

The other fact of the matter is that the price is merely going through a consolidation that is not really very connected to scaling - but instead just questions about whether the price is going up or down (which includes some considerations regarding whether we are going to experience another Bitfinex fiasco).  The recent bitfinex fiasco likely brings some hesitations concerning whether the next pump is going to be up or down.

[podyx]

Are you saying there is no solution to the scaling problems? I didn't quite catch that

[JayJuanGee]

Are you saying there is no solution to the scaling problems? I didn't quite catch that

I'm saying that it is an overly inflated issue that doesn't really matter as much as you are making it out to matter in your assertion that the "market is waiting for a solution"

Also, I am saying that how matters are progressing now are good enough for what we've got.

For example, if BTC blocksize limit goes to 2mg or 4mg or 100mg, that is not going to solve any problems more than it potentially creates unnecessary  bloat problems.

[beastmodeBiscuitGravy]

Are you saying there is no solution to the scaling problems? I didn't quite catch that

You ever converse with a brick wall? Yeah, that's about what it's gonna be like.

It feels like the cryptomarket is just waiting for a solid scaling solution to happen for the price to skyrocket...

You're exactly right. Speculative markets are forward looking, and as they see zero progress towards increasing Bitcoin's capacity... the capacity for price growth is similarly capped.

But it's only Bitcoin that's slipped this particular noose around its own neck... to the dramatic speculative benefit of competing networks in the "cryptomarket".



https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/770373513685241856

[gentlemand]

Hitting a scaling buffer is a nice problem to have in a way. I wonder how many alts could deliver their claims without hiccups. Perhaps we'll never know.

[savetherainforest]

Hitting a scaling buffer is a nice problem to have in a way. I wonder how many alts could deliver their claims without hiccups. Perhaps we'll never know.

And back to the real world... sh!t is happening... or going down!  

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/recall-us-ambassador-republic-moldova-mr-james-pettit         (NATO may have a direct border with Russia earlier than expected ... soon!  >insert perv Borat picture here!<)

Link...         (Aha... yep... Kurdistan has now more air support and anti-aircraft military equipment... awkward...   )

Link...         (Well lets see those scrambles and fighter jet planes that the US send for the Kurdish army to fight against Syria & Turkey put in action!   )

[JayJuanGee]

Are you saying there is no solution to the scaling problems? I didn't quite catch that

I'm saying that it is an overly inflated issue that doesn't really matter as much as you are making it out to matter in your assertion that the "market is waiting for a solution"

Also, I am saying that how matters are progressing now are good enough for what we've got.

For example, if BTC blocksize limit goes to 2mg or 4mg or 100mg, that is not going to solve any problems more than it potentially creates unnecessary  bloat problems.

Also, to supplement my earlier post, may of us should recall various criticisms of BTC regarding how it is supposedly not efficient enough, flexible enough, and it cannot be programmed as easily to carry out a large variety of automated tasks... and therefore, bitcoin is dead versus various bitcoin 2.0.. blah blah blah.


The most important things about bitcoin is it's security, especially when we are talking about it's first application (currency).  Yes, likely in the near future, bitcoin is going to be able to do a lot more things, but let's walk before we run... and also, let's build up (and continue to build up) our user base.

There continue to be a lot of people "on the fence" about bitcoin, and they are not "on the fence" because of some kind of supposed "scaling solution," they are on the fence because (not necessarily in the following order):  1) they are waiting for others, 2) they are waiting for user-friendliness 3) they want to be comfortable that their investment is going to hold value (or better yet, appreciate in value).

[JayJuanGee]

Are you saying there is no solution to the scaling problems? I didn't quite catch that

You ever converse with a brick wall? Yeah, that's about what it's gonna be like.

It feels like the cryptomarket is just waiting for a solid scaling solution to happen for the price to skyrocket...

You're exactly right. Speculative markets are forward looking, and as they see zero progress towards increasing Bitcoin's capacity... the capacity for price growth is similarly capped.

But it's only Bitcoin that's slipped this particular noose around its own neck... to the dramatic speculative benefit of competing networks in the "cryptomarket".

O.k... go ahead Biscuit...   You are playing on the same theme in which you are arguing that bitcoin's price is supposedly capped by its lack of innovation.

Go ahead... name some competing networks in the cryptomarket that are better than bitcoin for what bitcoin does... that is secure, decentralized immutability.


We are waiting.................    Go on... be specific.

[BathSaltsDealer]

Yeah that's why no one in the world is using wire transfers, you know cause "there is no way as of yet to do a refund or a redo if you send coins wire to the wrong addy,or if you get hacked at home on your PC"  

If all fiat transactions were bank wires, fiat money would have died on the vine & you'd have a great point. As it stands...

all fiat transactions and bank wires will be on the blockchain come 2018

https://www.db.com/newsroom_news/2016/medien/utility-settlement-coin-concept-on-blockchain-gathers-pace-en-11661.htm

Comes the revolution, we'll all eat strawberries and cream!

P.S. this thread's mostly JJG :\

[AlexGR]

P.S. this thread's mostly JJG :\

Don't underestimate yourself. You've got plenty of IDs to keep us entertained

[savetherainforest]

Yeah that's why no one in the world is using wire transfers, you know cause "there is no way as of yet to do a refund or a redo if you send coins wire to the wrong addy,or if you get hacked at home on your PC"  

If all fiat transactions were bank wires, fiat money would have died on the vine & you'd have a great point. As it stands...

all fiat transactions and bank wires will be on the blockchain come 2018

https://www.db.com/newsroom_news/2016/medien/utility-settlement-coin-concept-on-blockchain-gathers-pace-en-11661.htm

Comes the revolution, we'll all eat strawberries and cream!

P.S. this thread's mostly JJG :\

Your name is inspirational dear sir... Gives hope to humanity!   ... Yep... he has his tones... that JJG ... when someone steps on his cat-like tail and wakes up from his parallel universe sleep.. then he just decides to visit us and spam us with novel worthy chunks of text.    

And besides the "The JJG Factor" ... I see a lot of promise... The coin keeps the super coil going... The world does more war... More pension funds go bust... 52$ billion in Japan (I wonder about that gambling money... where those $ went  ) ... And now it started in US... everywhere.. everyone is buzzing about pension funds going bust... and pointing the finger to the Federal Reserve of US that its their fault because they don't raise rates... And also... there was some official weirdness statement... that all pension funds that are in countries with near 0% interest rates... they get thrown in to the stock markets, because there are better yields there... but they seem to lose money!  


*Edit: ... Does anyone here know why the Roman Empire collapsed?   ( hint.. hint... pensions!  )

*Edit: ... Where is Jimbo? ... did he gave up on being relentless?  

[Karartma1]

One may argue a lot but the Roman Empire fell for basically these three reasons altogether: overexpansion and military overspending (USA should be careful about that), economic troubles and overreliance on slave labor (this reminds the actual EU problems with immigration), last but not least Christianity started the demolish from the inside out.

Before Christianity was accepted Rome was bound to respect their rulers as gods. After that everything changed.


About pensions... I totally agree savetherainforest. My pension fund is in Bitcoin, I'm building it myself, I own the keys and I own my hard earned funds.

[savetherainforest]

One may argue a lot but the Roman Empire fell for basically these three reasons altogether: overexpansion and military overspending (USA should be careful about that), economic troubles and overreliance on slave labor (this reminds the actual EU problems with immigration), last but not least Christianity started the demolish from the inside out.

Before Christianity was accepted Rome was bound to respect their rulers as gods. After that everything changed.


About pensions... I totally agree savetherainforest. My pension fund is in Bitcoin, I'm building it myself, I own the keys and I own my hard earned funds.

Wars in the bronze age / medieval times... it was a self sustainable process, it would have taken months or at least a month for supplies to get from Italy to most West or Center Europe regions... the problems where not slaves... The problem was technology! Because there was a "Maunder Minimum" situation when the empire fell... And besides that I think it was in a period of dictatorship followed by anarchy or something like that... It was a combo of things!

But the most important one was the pension system.... yeah.. it is hard to believe they had pensions! .. And I was talking about that "mini ice-age" situation that happen then... That made a hyperinflation situation that made gold useless! Imagine everyone trying to buy food that is limited in supply. And that is the main reason it made the romans stop their expeditions in the cold and ready for glaciation lands of central and north Europe...   ... Then from the year 400 till 700 most of the history was displaced in the south... and after the year 700 the Vikings appeared and started doing sh!t till 1100-1200.. when another mini-ice age hit... then another period of prosperity till 1600 <-> 1750 ... and now our Sun is again on the cycle ready to go and stir some sh!t up! I foresee the population of the globe reaching 4 billion till 2035... I already embraced the path of the bretharian ... I mostly need water, air and some herbs... but the problem is air. I live in a region with hundreds of square kilometers of forest and I still get pollution!... I was visiting in one day one of the medium cities... and I almost couldn't breathe! ... I'm thinking of creating my own algae oxygen production farm.. I think that would be a profitable business in the future.  



*Edit: I believe starting a business/company of building homes underground in mountain and hill regions with self sustainable equipment and a long degradation rate... will make good bargaining chips in the future for shares in corporations or buying big chucks of countries.

*Edit2: I also believe Russia will eventually blow up in 10 years or so all over the globe in all the big cities a few EMP nukes to kill all the cars or most of the polluting sources that influence the atmosphere. Because no one will ever listen or even remotely try to "go green", before anyone can do anything about it or start doing something about it in the next 5-10 years. So... bikes and horse seem a good alternative... Also starting a company building mechanical cars like those Swiss clocks that you turn them and they work for days... A concept like that for cars would just solve all the problems.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

It feels like the cryptomarket is just waiting for a solid scaling solution to happen for the price to skyrocket...

Yeah right.  Haven't you figured it out yet that the scaling issue (solution) is just made up?

The fact of the matter is that scaling is always going to be some kind of concern/issue in bitcoin, and accordingly, from time to time there are going to need to be adjustments and tweaks to balancing usefulness, security and spam... Currently, the blocksize limit is not a problem, and it is just a fabricated problem.  There are tweaks in the works including seg wit that are going to bring additional functionality and abilities to process larger volumes...

The other fact of the matter is that the price is merely going through a consolidation that is not really very connected to scaling - but instead just questions about whether the price is going up or down (which includes some considerations regarding whether we are going to experience another Bitfinex fiasco).  The recent bitfinex fiasco likely brings some hesitations concerning whether the next pump is going to be up or down.

I disagree , I think scaling (and LN in particular) deserves all the attention it is getting.  
Once we have great scale, and improved privacy/fungibility, we are technically golden imho.  All the other bells and whistles that will be added are just extras.  The only thing I would still really worry about is government reaction to improved privacy (which I would partially understand from their point of view).  And of course security could be an issue (Imagine if all or most Trezors became compromised   ), but I expect security practices to keep improving over time.

[Elwar]

I explained Bitcoin to my grandmother and she thought it was a great solution to the problems of banking and fiat currencies. She pulled out her pocketbook to buy some bitcoins then she stopped and said

"wait, are the blocks going to scale beyond 1mb or are they going to offer some sort of channel solution to handle transaction volume?"

I told her it was still under discussion.

She slammed her pocketbook shut and said "I'll stick with fiat thank you very much!"

[gentlemand]

I disagree , I think scaling (and LN in particular) deserves all the attention it is getting.  

One thing I'm curious about, did LN arrive from nowhere and then Core latched onto it? I can't quite remember how it emerged.