Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ImI]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

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[JayJuanGee]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

[savetherainforest]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

You do see the timing right? ... And that the chinese started this... and the rest followed... right?? Or are you so trapped in your bubble and blinded by the soap distortions on your bubble's walls... ??  

[JayJuanGee]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

You do see the timing right? ... And that the chinese started this... and the rest followed... right?? Or are you so trapped in your bubble and blinded by the soap distortions on your bubble's walls... ??  

Whatever, savetherain. 

I think that I sufficiently made my point already, but maybe a bit of a further explanation could be helpful - rather than sitting back without acknowledging your seemingly attempts to buy into superficiality while denigrating the comments of others.

Yes, some kind of pump or dump can start in one location, such as china, but the bitcoin is much more complex than being controlled by a narrow set of interests and market movements play on each other, even if they may have started in one location.  There exists all kinds of lead and follow from various trading points, and to characterize the matter as "chinese" or an "attack" seems to largely lose the point with attempts at superficiality and misleading attempts at oversimplification.

Also, the "attack" characterization seems to imply that there is something going on that is beyond mere market dynamics.  In fact, most exchanges have been experiencing fairly low levels of trade volume, which leaves pumping and dumping (in either direction) fairly easy to carry out with a relatively low number of coins... Characterizing such trading as an "attack" comes off as an exaggeration in the least, and could be characterized as misleading if such language were coming from a troll - which I would not want to suggest that IMI is a troll, though you, savetherain, frequently do come off as a bit of a troll.... but that may be just your strange ways of presentation?   

[zimmah]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

agreed, but it seems like some planned/coordinated attack to shake out some weak hands or to destroy some margins.

the only question is, to what purpose?

preparing for a takeoff?

[MinermanNC]

What a strange drop. Came home earlier saw 630 thought wow nice! looked back and hour later and 600, thinking what the hell just happened? anyone know for sure?

At least its coming back it would seem. 

[savetherainforest]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

agreed, but it seems like some planned/coordinated attack to shake out some weak hands or to destroy some margins.

the only question is, to what purpose?

preparing for a takeoff?

The price is not good enough (not high enough) ... people are not selling, the volumes are unpleasing... There needs to be more confidence created... So basically they dump so they can buy a bit cheaper... then they pump. Those that dumped and waiting will find out that they got duped and they will be forced to buy back in at a higher price... ... So... the usual bullsh!t .. but you already knew that..   .. !!!

[RayX12]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

agreed, but it seems like some planned/coordinated attack to shake out some weak hands or to destroy some margins.

the only question is, to what purpose?

preparing for a takeoff?

I hope so, maybe more volatility will have shorts take positions and then boom..

[JayJuanGee]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

agreed, but it seems like some planned/coordinated attack to shake out some weak hands or to destroy some margins.

What's new about that?  Surely, over time, some whales may become more sophisticated in their attempts to keep coins on many of the exchanges, but sometimes, there is just lead and follow going on, and sometimes there may be a lead, but other players are not willing to follow.

Yeah, the overwhelming majority of folks participating in these forums are not whales, and therefore, we can only attempt to extrapolate based on what we see and what seems logical, and the dynamics change over time, including which exchanges seem to be leading and the willingness of traders to follow under certain circumstances and also what kinds of FUD is going to be affective in order to attempt to cause a panic dump or even the kinds  of "good news" to attempt to support a pump.

Surely, also some theories and explanations regarding price movement make more sense than other theories and explanations.

the only question is, to what purpose?

I don't know whether there has to be a purpose, except for in the short term, it appears that this specific dump was successful in that some lead and others followed.  Surely, some whales have a better ability to predict and to control price direction as compared with others, yet I doubt that anyone of them really know the longer term price direction (I guess what we would characterize as medium term, weeks to several months).  I would anticipate that they frequently try to manipulate by either pumping or dumping, and sometimes the pump or dump works and other times it does not.. and when the volume is low, then it is more likely going to yield better abilities to predict for such whales. 

Those of us who are smaller fish, just attempt our best to go with the flow and to set up plans that work for us, and some of us are likely better at setting up and tailoring such plans than others.  In the end, maybe it does not matter so much what is your plan except that your plan is tailored to your own circumstances.

I don't see any purpose in really attempting to ascribe any kind of deeper or meaningful purpose to these pumps and dumps, except for the fact that they are going to occur and on individual levels we strive to prepare for them, even though they may take place in somewhat unpredictable ways, they are in the end, anticipated to take place and without significant rhyme or reason except for the fact that they are able to take place.

preparing for a takeoff?

I think that in the medium term, we have a fairly decent chance of price appreciation, and I am becoming a bit more bullish in my thinking that we are at least going to experience some shorter term pumps in the near future, absent some kind of hacking event or something like bitfinex in the near future.  Anyhow, there are a few resistance points in the upper $600s and mid-to-upper $700s that we have to make it through before becoming too anxious about the price.

[umhhppp]

most probable explanation: a coordinated chinese attack to trigger stop-loss-margin-calls.

I agree with you about goal to trigger some stop-loss margin calls, but such dumping does not need to be characterized as either an "attack" nor "chinese."  

agreed, but it seems like some planned/coordinated attack to shake out some weak hands or to destroy some margins.

the only question is, to what purpose?

preparing for a takeoff?

The price is not good enough (not high enough) ... people are not selling, the volumes are unpleasing... There needs to be more confidence created... So basically they dump so they can buy a bit cheaper... then they pump. Those that dumped and waiting will find out that they got duped and they will be forced to buy back in at a higher price... ... So... the usual bullsh!t .. but you already knew that..   .. !!!

YES!
Love anything that has Jon Snow in it!
You are the rightful king and can command us as your legion of bitcoiners!

[AZwarel]

Now that i have analyzed the time at where the selling started at different exchanges (huobi, finex, stamp), it is obviously coordinated. No way that random people start to sell on 3 major exchanges at the very same 1-3 minute time frame (21:12 UTC, on a Sunday evening, riiight). Organized dump, nothing to see here.

They probably been preparing for this for hours/days. (You need to load up btc on different exchanges, than start selling at the very same time on those exchanges, for an obvious loss i might add - i would just use an OCT service for unload large amount of btc, less hassle, better price - clear manipulation.)

[DaRude]

Now that i have analyzed the time at where the selling started at different exchanges (huobi, finex, stamp), it is obviously coordinated. No way that random people start to sell on 3 major exchanges at the very same 1-3 minute time frame (21:12 UTC, on a Sunday evening, riiight). Organized dump, nothing to see here.

They probably been preparing for this for hours/days. (You need to load up btc on different exchanges, than start selling at the very same time on those exchanges, for an obvious loss i might add - i would just use an OCT service for unload large amount of btc, less hassle, better price - clear manipulation.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

[AZwarel]

Now that i have analyzed the time at where the selling started at different exchanges (huobi, finex, stamp), it is obviously coordinated. No way that random people start to sell on 3 major exchanges at the very same 1-3 minute time frame (21:12 UTC, on a Sunday evening, riiight). Organized dump, nothing to see here.

They probably been preparing for this for hours/days. (You need to load up btc on different exchanges, than start selling at the very same time on those exchanges, for an obvious loss i might add - i would just use an OCT service for unload large amount of btc, less hassle, better price - clear manipulation.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

Yes, well, that needs time to react/deposit/organize. No way, you can arbitrage in less than 30 sec, between different regions, unless you have substantial amount of deposits on different exchanges at the same time, and watching/running bots, and still, that would only be reactionary, not preemptive.

[BitUsher]

Yes, well, that needs time to react/deposit/organize. No way, you can arbitrage in less than 30 sec, between different regions, unless you have substantial amount of deposits on different exchanges at the same time, and watching/running bots, and still, that would only be reactionary, not preemptive.

How can you tell the difference between a bot reaction and predetermined action when they can react instantly?

[mymenace]

ok, anyone mind explain what the fuck is going on?

no fckn idea

testing the market to see if there can be some cheaper coins bought

a ploy used by large traders to scare the market, often seen in early days of BTC trading

look at the walls to see if the sell side is built up, large traders implement a fake wall

next is to hope the market scares more

get buddies in at cheaper price and buy up again

congratulate each other, suck dick and do it again




BTC WALL

bottom two charts, market depth
https://bitcoincharts.com/markets/bitstampUSD_depth.html

[mymenace]

Now that i have analyzed the time at where the selling started at different exchanges (huobi, finex, stamp), it is obviously coordinated. No way that random people start to sell on 3 major exchanges at the very same 1-3 minute time frame (21:12 UTC, on a Sunday evening, riiight). Organized dump, nothing to see here.

They probably been preparing for this for hours/days. (You need to load up btc on different exchanges, than start selling at the very same time on those exchanges, for an obvious loss i might add - i would just use an OCT service for unload large amount of btc, less hassle, better price - clear manipulation.)

and your point is?    ... clear manipulation...

your pointing out something that is in every part of society - interest rates, products, services, entertainment, finance


why can't bitcoin have it as well.

are you pro manipulation or against?

[AZwarel]

Now that i have analyzed the time at where the selling started at different exchanges (huobi, finex, stamp), it is obviously coordinated. No way that random people start to sell on 3 major exchanges at the very same 1-3 minute time frame (21:12 UTC, on a Sunday evening, riiight). Organized dump, nothing to see here.

They probably been preparing for this for hours/days. (You need to load up btc on different exchanges, than start selling at the very same time on those exchanges, for an obvious loss i might add - i would just use an OCT service for unload large amount of btc, less hassle, better price - clear manipulation.)

and your point is?    ... clear manipulation...

your pointing out something that is in every part of society - interest rates, products, services, entertainment, finance


why can't bitcoin have it as well.

are you pro manipulation or against?

I do not have "a point". It was just an interesting observation. Am all for manipulation, this is supposedly a free market, as long as the trades are voluntary, i do not care/mind. What was interesting, is that the supposed "seller" could make more profit, if it had not dumped everywhere at the same time and crushing the price with such volume, so obviously profit making was not the goal, but i might be wrong, and these were just faulty bots overreacting - remember, it was late Sunday evening in Europe, late afternoon in US, and around 3am in Asia, still on Sunday, not many people are awake/trading at this time? 

[ynef]

This has become a rather boring and predictable pattern, don't you think? It's funny because yesterday I was looking at the chart and thought to myself it's going down.

[Chef Ramsay]

Bullshit drop if I've ever seen one. This is going way up!

[JayJuanGee]

Now that i have analyzed the time at where the selling started at different exchanges (huobi, finex, stamp), it is obviously coordinated. No way that random people start to sell on 3 major exchanges at the very same 1-3 minute time frame (21:12 UTC, on a Sunday evening, riiight). Organized dump, nothing to see here.

They probably been preparing for this for hours/days. (You need to load up btc on different exchanges, than start selling at the very same time on those exchanges, for an obvious loss i might add - i would just use an OCT service for unload large amount of btc, less hassle, better price - clear manipulation.)

You are describing too much in absolutes.  There is a decent possibility that you could be correct; however, what you assert is not obviously the case.  There are also concepts described as leading, signaling and following.  Sure, there could be some coins on each exchange that are controlled by the same folks or entities, but that is not a necessary factor in order to achieve a similar result with folks with similar agendas following the signal within minutes (as you say) of the occurrence of the dumping on the other exchanges. 

You even are bold enough to characterize the dump as "unsuccessful", but what the fuck do you know about the goals and objective of the various players?  You are purely speculating because you do not indicate that you know any of them personally (and you surely would indicate if you actually knew any of them, if you did).  Let's say hypothetically, one of the dumping entities had some kind of contract with a miner or some other holder of coins that they could purchase up to a certain quantity of coins from them off line (over the counter) (let's say up to 30k of coins) within a certain window time-period based on the BTC price at that time.  They may have manipulated prices on the exchanges with a far smaller quantity of coins in order to obtain those coins over the counter (and off the exchanges).

I guess my point is that you don't really know what is going on, even though frame the situation in kind of absolutes and in order to strongly assert that the only possibility is what you describe, which is misleading, and approaching nonsense to describe the situation in such absolute terms.