Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Cassius]

Will be interesting to see what Yellen does tomorrow. 0.25% rise expected, which will upset the Chinese and prompt further outflows of money using your favourite vehicle for avoiding capital controls. Question is whether it's priced in, or whether it will knock BTC decisively through resistance.

[r0ach]

Lol what a joke.

The moves on Huobi never fail to perplex me.

Let's ask the #1 market analyst in the world:

This Bullshit aint the work of an aggregate market.

This market is fucked.

This is just a few players with the power to defy all time learned principles of market mechanics

the splashes of the whales have frozen me in my tracks

these markets are just not to be traded

I can't reasonably expect to be able to play these markets

this is brain damage of the highest order, and I aint even making money

[Ibian]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

After last night's shenanigans I didn't know what to expect this morning.

I wake up to see that we're right back where we were... $787USD/$1032CAD, just a tiny shade ahead of this time yesterday.

Seems everybody was right. We had our break through to over $790, our "mega-dump" profit-taking, and an immediate bounce back to our slow and steady upward trend. All in one night. Whew.

Now I see a 500 coin wall at $784 at Stamp. That's a big wall for them. Should be fun to see if it's pulled or eaten.

Edit: Pulled already. That was quick.

[JayJuanGee]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

I think that you are correct.  There is a kind of mindset that wants to keep doubling down and leveraging, and even when those kinds of folks might have periods of rationality and logic, they let a kind of greed - or gambling or rolling the dice  - take over their actions.. and periodically they win really big, but in the long run, the odds catch up with them and they are constantly attempting to dig themselves out of holes.

So we should continuously attempt to caution folks against this kind of approach, because it is dangerous - and even if they have won BIG TIME in the past, they gotta consider better long term approaches that may not make as much money but help to set themselves up for longer term profits and/or financial security.

From time to time, I have some of those kinds of Local bitcoin (or direct) trades that cause me to experience an immediate $100 or more locked profit, and sometimes it can take quite a while to put sufficient systems in place (having money in a multitude of places and floating the money) to be able to lock in those levels of instant profits, and really, the practice of profits may begin with much lower levels of profits and just getting used to locking them in on a regular basis.  I frequently have trades that only have $1 or so profits, but sometimes, they will run a streak and I get locked in profits from a multitude of small profits, but having the smaller profit locking in system in place allows for the taking advantage situations and opportunities for larger profit trades, without putting a large portion of the principle at risk.

[Ibian]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

I think that you are correct.  There is a kind of mindset that wants to keep doubling down and leveraging, and even when those kinds of folks might have periods of rationality and logic, they let a kind of greed - or gambling or rolling the dice  - take over their actions.. and periodically they win really big, but in the long run, the odds catch up with them and they are constantly attempting to dig themselves out of holes.

So we should continuously attempt to caution folks against this kind of approach, because it is dangerous - and even if they have won BIG TIME in the past, they gotta consider better long term approaches that may not make as much money but help to set themselves up for longer term profits and/or financial security.

From time to time, I have some of those kinds of Local bitcoin (or direct) trades that cause me to experience an immediate $100 or more locked profit, and sometimes it can take quite a while to put sufficient systems in place (having money in a multitude of places and floating the money) to be able to lock in those levels of instant profits, and really, the practice of profits may begin with much lower levels of profits and just getting used to locking them in on a regular basis.  I frequently have trades that only have $1 or so profits, but sometimes, they will run a streak and I get locked in profits from a multitude of small profits, but having the smaller profit locking in system in place allows for the taking advantage situations and opportunities for larger profit trades, without putting a large portion of the principle at risk.

Bitcoin is tiny in my country, and particular location. Very few customers. But they tend to be big ones, compared to money tossed around in the normal day to day life. Long term, this is good for me because I'm the only one in my city actively advertising. Right now it's all about getting as many customers as possible so I can one day live off it.

[JayJuanGee]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

I think that you are correct.  There is a kind of mindset that wants to keep doubling down and leveraging, and even when those kinds of folks might have periods of rationality and logic, they let a kind of greed - or gambling or rolling the dice  - take over their actions.. and periodically they win really big, but in the long run, the odds catch up with them and they are constantly attempting to dig themselves out of holes.

So we should continuously attempt to caution folks against this kind of approach, because it is dangerous - and even if they have won BIG TIME in the past, they gotta consider better long term approaches that may not make as much money but help to set themselves up for longer term profits and/or financial security.

From time to time, I have some of those kinds of Local bitcoin (or direct) trades that cause me to experience an immediate $100 or more locked profit, and sometimes it can take quite a while to put sufficient systems in place (having money in a multitude of places and floating the money) to be able to lock in those levels of instant profits, and really, the practice of profits may begin with much lower levels of profits and just getting used to locking them in on a regular basis.  I frequently have trades that only have $1 or so profits, but sometimes, they will run a streak and I get locked in profits from a multitude of small profits, but having the smaller profit locking in system in place allows for the taking advantage situations and opportunities for larger profit trades, without putting a large portion of the principle at risk.

Bitcoin is tiny in my country, and particular location. Very few customers. But they tend to be big ones, compared to money tossed around in the normal day to day life. Long term, this is good for me because I'm the only one in my city actively advertising. Right now it's all about getting as many customers as possible so I can one day live off it.

I have noticed that dynamic too, that there are some geographical areas in which the BTC price differences are considerable, and so we may be making slightly different points.  

I agree with you that you should attempt to take advantage of your profitable BTC trading opportunities while they last and maybe before too much competition comes into your area.

I, personally, am in an area that already has a lot of local bitcoin traders, and so the premiums on BTC trading are not as large, yet I have honed a few seemingly "loyal" local bitcoin customers on both the selling and buying side.

Yet, part of my earlier point remains that even if some of the BTC trade related profits may not be large, sometimes it is much more prudent and practical to lock in the BTC related trade profits right away, rather than attempting to gamble for larger profits (and then potentially lose it all or have to take a smaller profit level due to having had gambled too much).  

Sure, some degree of leverage or margin or gambling of principle may be practical in some circumstances and for some persons and their circumstances, but it remains dangerous to leverage or to gamble with large portions of your profits and principle on a regular basis but instead have a plan that continuously locks in profits and maybe just gambles with a small percentage of the proceeds of the overall trading portfolio.  

For some folks, they may be comfortable gambling or leveraging with larger amounts of their portfolio (such as 50%), but frequently, it will be prudent to leverage or gamble smaller portions of the overall trading portfolio (whether principle or profits), such as 20% or less  - and maybe even less than 5% can still be prudent, profitable while safeguarding and leveraging and gambling smaller parts of a person's BTC-related holdings (and striving not to become too greedy).

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

[Ibian]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

[Mike Hunt]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

Bitcoinity shows bitcoins sell through localbitcoins for higher prices than exchanges. Wouldn't buying on exchanges to sell on localbitcoins be profitable, and vice versa be unprofitable? These are the latest prices bitcoinity shows for the kraken and localbitcoins.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/kraken/USD = selling at $782.0 and buying at $782.1

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/localbitcoins/USD = selling at $881.8 and buying at $1114

How can you make profit buying on localbitcoins at between $881.8 and $1114, then immediately reselling on kraken at between $782.0 and $782.1?

edit

Bitcoinity shows today's localbitcoins 24 hour high was $2581, and its low was $343.1. Is that how you do it?

I never imagined the prices were so volatile on localbitcoins.

[Karartma1]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

And how, if I may ask, you deal with BTC pseudonimity? Are you so paranoid to keep everything separated, un-linked (with mixers etc.)?
I would love to have a more fungible bitcoin in this case.

[Ibian]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

Bitcoinity shows bitcoins sell through localbitcoins for higher prices than exchanges. Wouldn't buying on exchanges to sell on localbitcoins be profitable, and vice versa be unprofitable? These are the latest prices bitcoinity shows for the kraken and localbitcoins.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/kraken/USD = selling at $782.0 and buying at $782.1

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/localbitcoins/USD = selling at $881.8 and buying at $1114

How can you make profit buying on localbitcoins at between $881.8 and $1114, then immediately reselling on kraken at between $782.0 and $782.1?

edit

Bitcoinity shows today's localbitcoins 24 hour high was $2581, and its low was $343.1. Is that how you do it?

I never imagined the prices were so volatile on localbitcoins.

I buy lower than market and sell immediately for a profit.

I sell higher than market and buy immediately for a profit.

And my margin is not that high. I'm satisfied, for the moment, with a humble 5% profit.

[Ibian]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

And how, if I may ask, you deal with BTC pseudonimity? Are you so paranoid to keep everything separated, un-linked (with mixers etc.)?
I would love to have a more fungible bitcoin in this case.

I don't quite go that far (though maybe I should - something to consider for the future). The main point (for me at this time) is to build a customer base and to have banks as uninvolved as possible.

[JayJuanGee]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

And how, if I may ask, you deal with BTC pseudonimity? Are you so paranoid to keep everything separated, un-linked (with mixers etc.)?
I would love to have a more fungible bitcoin in this case.

I don't quite go that far (though maybe I should - something to consider for the future). The main point (for me at this time) is to build a customer base and to have banks as uninvolved as possible.

Minimum safeguards can be using a unique address for each transaction (or at least mostly attempting such), and sending coins to locations, such as exchanges, that are less involved in gathering your personal information.

It does become a little bit cumbersome to deal with multiple address, but you can attempt to develop systems to deal with keeping track and organizing such... even though less than a perfect situation.

[Ibian]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

And how, if I may ask, you deal with BTC pseudonimity? Are you so paranoid to keep everything separated, un-linked (with mixers etc.)?
I would love to have a more fungible bitcoin in this case.

I don't quite go that far (though maybe I should - something to consider for the future). The main point (for me at this time) is to build a customer base and to have banks as uninvolved as possible.

Minimum safeguards can be using a unique address for each transaction (or at least mostly attempting such), and sending coins to locations, such as exchanges, that are less involved in gathering your personal information.

It does become a little bit cumbersome to deal with multiple address, but you can attempt to develop systems to deal with keeping track and organizing such... even though less than a perfect situation.

Electrum automatically creates new unique addresses (optional to use them, but they are there). However at the moment that's not what I use on my phone. It's just not important enough for the moment.

[JayJuanGee]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

And how, if I may ask, you deal with BTC pseudonimity? Are you so paranoid to keep everything separated, un-linked (with mixers etc.)?
I would love to have a more fungible bitcoin in this case.

I don't quite go that far (though maybe I should - something to consider for the future). The main point (for me at this time) is to build a customer base and to have banks as uninvolved as possible.

Minimum safeguards can be using a unique address for each transaction (or at least mostly attempting such), and sending coins to locations, such as exchanges, that are less involved in gathering your personal information.

It does become a little bit cumbersome to deal with multiple address, but you can attempt to develop systems to deal with keeping track and organizing such... even though less than a perfect situation.

Electrum automatically creates new unique addresses (optional to use them, but they are there). However at the moment that's not what I use on my phone. It's just not important enough for the moment.

Which wallet - or app do you use?  Are you trading directly through local bitcoins, and then using their wallet?  I am pretty sure that they are changing the address for every transaction, even though you may not be able to see that under the surface?

I use the local bitcoin wallet for my first transactions with folks, but then after I get to know them, I will do future transactions directly by using the Blockchain app.... and I manually create new addresses with the blockchain app (sometimes I will reuse the addresses a few times before I transfer all of the coins out and archive them).

And, you are correct with your indication (by your description of your situation as an example) that there are going to be differing levels of efforts that are made in the direction of attempting some level of privacy.

[Ibian]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

And how, if I may ask, you deal with BTC pseudonimity? Are you so paranoid to keep everything separated, un-linked (with mixers etc.)?
I would love to have a more fungible bitcoin in this case.

I don't quite go that far (though maybe I should - something to consider for the future). The main point (for me at this time) is to build a customer base and to have banks as uninvolved as possible.

Minimum safeguards can be using a unique address for each transaction (or at least mostly attempting such), and sending coins to locations, such as exchanges, that are less involved in gathering your personal information.

It does become a little bit cumbersome to deal with multiple address, but you can attempt to develop systems to deal with keeping track and organizing such... even though less than a perfect situation.

Electrum automatically creates new unique addresses (optional to use them, but they are there). However at the moment that's not what I use on my phone. It's just not important enough for the moment.

Which wallet - or app do you use?  Are you trading directly through local bitcoins, and then using their wallet?  I am pretty sure that they are changing the address for every transaction, even though you may not be able to see that under the surface?

I use the local bitcoin wallet for my first transactions with folks, but then after I get to know them, I will do future transactions directly by using the Blockchain app.... and I manually create new addresses with the blockchain app (sometimes I will reuse the addresses a few times before I transfer all of the coins out and archive them).

And, you are correct with your indication (by your description of your situation as an example) that there are going to be differing levels of efforts that are made in the direction of attempting some level of privacy.

Mycelium.

I advertise on localbitcoins, but as far as possible trade outside them as they charge a 1% fee - which is over 20% of my profit, given transfer fees and gas and such.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Mats problem is that he is stuck on the idea that the only right way to make money is to daytrade. Realizing that he sucks at it, he doubles down and loses even harder.

Meanwhile I just made a hundred bucks in two minutes by buying on localbitcoins and immediately reselling on kraken. There are plenty of ways to make things work for the open minded.

In-person or purely online?

I always deal in cash in person, on principle. I want as little middleman involvement as possible (banks, other third parties) and I don't like "paper trails". Personal privacy is one of my big issues.

Yeah, the thing is I imagine getting followed and 5-dollar-wrenched by a junkie or criminal of some sort.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Mycelium.

I advertise on localbitcoins, but as far as possible trade outside them as they charge a 1% fee - which is over 20% of my profit, given transfer fees and gas and such.

I force nearly all of my first time transactions through LocalBitcoins, even though it costs me 1% (which tends to be a decent percentage of the profits), and if the buyer/seller refuses to transact through Local bitcoins for at least one ("get to know you") transaction, then I refuse to do business with them... hahahahaha.... it's my way of making sure that I get folks who are ready, willing and able to comply with all of the terms of my ad.. rather than to either attempt to negotiate new terms or otherwise be difficult to deal with (which sometimes can be the case in meeting random folks through the interwebs).

[Fakhoury]

KEEP FUELING THE ROCKET !!!!!

News URL : http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/future-of-the-100-note-up-for-grabs-as-government-targets-undeclared-cash-payments-20161213-gtakk5.html