Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[eXpl0sive]

Sorry to ask but where to read more about BU and Segwit? there is not much info here... and even a big nothing in the mining section.

Start with this:
http://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-explainer-bitcoin-unlimited-debate/

[Searing]

Others feel fear, I see opportunity.

I got 2.25 btc at the 991 usd price I think it was.  Conga line on pump starts here. (Throws down gaughtlet)

[MinermanNC]

Sorry to ask but where to read more about BU and Segwit? there is not much info here... and even a big nothing in the mining section.

It is very difficult to find anyone that will discuss BU or Segwit. I wish there was more discussion about it but nobody has an opinion for one or the other.

Isn't that the truth. I think most of the people bitching about it really don't fully understand either of the options. (me included lol)

Both hope to solve the same issue however. Just BU at some point could trigger the hard fork. Segwit would only be a soft fork. Just the sounds of a hard fork spooks people as it probably should lol

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

Sorry to ask but where to read more about BU and Segwit? there is not much info here... and even a big nothing in the mining section.

It is very difficult to find anyone that will discuss BU or Segwit. I wish there was more discussion about it but nobody has an opinion for one or the other.

Thank you, I was very troubled by this. Was I looking in the wrong sections (tried them almost all) and still nothing really serious. Do you know where they hide to conspire their changes?

People think that a fork is imminent. First of all, none of the big pools are going to switch to producing bigger blocks until they have at least 51% of the hash. Probably a lot more. The way BU works is that it will eventually go for the longest chain. If any of the big pools start mining bigger blocks with less than 51% of the hash, they'll end up mining a lot of orphans. You think they are that stupid?
All the core team needs to do is introduce a block increase as well as Segwit and everyone will kiss and make up.

Finally someone is talking sense on this hard fork issue.

I have read that Antpool among others are already on board with BU... and are just waiting a unknown threshold to start mining BU and not BTC.

Futhermore I am not sure miners really care about the politics of their pool operators.

Anyway I am confused  

Sorry to ask but where to read more about BU and Segwit? there is not much info here... and even a big nothing in the mining section.

It is very difficult to find anyone that will discuss BU or Segwit. I wish there was more discussion about it but nobody has an opinion for one or the other.

Isn't that the truth. I think most of the people bitching about it really don't fully understand either of the options. (me included lol)

Both hope to solve the same issue however. Just BU at some point could trigger the hard fork. Segwit would only be a soft fork. Just the sounds of a hard fork spooks people as it probably should lol

anyway it's a big change in the system, next more coins per blocks? if miners are too centralized in big pools and don't care, who knows...

Sorry to ask but where to read more about BU and Segwit? there is not much info here... and even a big nothing in the mining section.

Start with this:
http://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-explainer-bitcoin-unlimited-debate/

thx a lot! will report back later.

[Meuh6879]

Dead Cat Bounce ?

[JimboToronto]

A late and very hung over good morning Bitcoinland.

I woke up earlier, saw the price, and ran out to buy the coin I missed buying 2 nights ago. I was cursing yesterday at having missed the dip below $1100 because it happened around midnight and it was too late to buy because the only places still open were overpriced.

I almost bought last night but figured it still hadn't bottomed out. Good thing I waited. I saved almost $100. I got in at about $970. Now it's back up over a grand... currently $1013USD at Bitcoinaverage.

I come over here and see the usual trolls and altcoin shills having a picnic. So predictable.

[Searing]

Wow, such wrong. How can you live with yourself? And why are you so concerned with other people's action in whether they sold or bought?

I admit I got over emotional. Probably because I have almost all my net worth invested in bitcoin and was living the dream because of the high prices we got lately. Dream is ruined at this time.

Oct 18th turned on 1st miner 150 usd btc to ATH 1234 usd or some such

2014 289 usd or some such

Keep what you can afford but hold/horde the rest. This too shall pass 🤔

[bones261]

Sorry to ask but where to read more about BU and Segwit? there is not much info here... and even a big nothing in the mining section.

It is very difficult to find anyone that will discuss BU or Segwit. I wish there was more discussion about it but nobody has an opinion for one or the other.

Isn't that the truth. I think most of the people bitching about it really don't fully understand either of the options. (me included lol)

Both hope to solve the same issue however. Just BU at some point could trigger the hard fork. Segwit would only be a soft fork. Just the sounds of a hard fork spooks people as it probably should lol

BU is a stupid solution anyway. If BTC ever wants to scale on something that would compete with Visa and Paypal, we'd need to increase the blocksize to 1GB+. Problem is, such a large block would take so long to verify, there would end up being a lot of empty block mined, and the large 1GB+ blocks would end up getting orphaned, anyway. IF BTC wants to even come close to scaling like the big boys, an off chain solution like LN is our only hope.

[MinermanNC]

This gives a good overview of where all the nodes are at right now. Interesting, the way I am reading it is BU nodes at 33.1 %

http://xtnodes.com/

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

So about this http://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-explainer-bitcoin-unlimited-debate/

https://www.bitcoinunlimited.info/ (again one of those stupid java only website, says enough)

the idea sound great BUT :

Bitcoin Unlimited differs from Bitcoin Core in that the block size parameter is not hard-coded – nodes and miners flag support for the size that they want. Then, it relies on an idea called 'emergent consensus'.

"An emergent consensus will thus arise based on free-market economics as the nodes/miners converge on consensus focal points, creating in the process a living, breathing entity that responds to changing real-world conditions in a free and decentralized manner," the website reads.

In the case of the block size, the idea is that via the free market, miners will come to agreement on a block size. Though, users can 'vote' on other parameters as well.

How are the miners be voting? I absolutely don't get how in practice it could work! Or it's the big pools colluding togheter or it's total anarachy. If pool A mines 2mb blocks and pool B 3mb blocks will B get orphaned? what a mess.

And fundamentally what's the point when a block isn't full it doesn't take the full space...

Sorry to ask but where to read more about BU and Segwit? there is not much info here... and even a big nothing in the mining section.

It is very difficult to find anyone that will discuss BU or Segwit. I wish there was more discussion about it but nobody has an opinion for one or the other.

Isn't that the truth. I think most of the people bitching about it really don't fully understand either of the options. (me included lol)

Both hope to solve the same issue however. Just BU at some point could trigger the hard fork. Segwit would only be a soft fork. Just the sounds of a hard fork spooks people as it probably should lol

BU is a stupid solution anyway. If BTC ever wants to scale on something that would compete with Visa and Paypal, we'd need to increase the blocksize to 1GB+. Problem is, such a large block would take so long to verify, there would end up being a lot of empty block mined, and the large 1GB+ blocks would end up getting orphaned, anyway. IF BTC wants to even come close to scaling like the big boys, an off chain solution like LN is our only hope.

if I get it BU is unlimited... thx for your comment anyway.

This gives a good overview of where all the nodes are at right now. Interesting, the way I am reading it is BU nodes at 33.1 %

http://xtnodes.com/

But the big pools can fork it almost when ever they want, no?

[Lauda]

This gives a good overview of where all the nodes are at right now. Interesting, the way I am reading it is BU nodes at 33.1 %

http://xtnodes.com/

No. Why are you preaching something which you do not even understand? BU nodes are at ~8% at best (see here: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/), or more realistically at 2% (see here: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html).

So about this http://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-explainer-bitcoin-unlimited-debate/

https://www.bitcoinunlimited.info/ (again one of those stupid java only website, says enough)

the idea sound great BUT :

BU/BTU is a absurdly stupid idea that provides even more centralization incentives and power to the mining cartel. Is this what you mean by 'sounds great'?

But the big pools can fork it almost when ever they want, no?

They can fork into an altcoin whenever they want to.
Price is back at $1000, and I'm not exactly sure in which direction it may head now. We may see some clarity next week.

[DaRude]

This question might sound stupid but I have been an investor never a miner .

If the fork would damage the price that much why would the miners go massively to it ? Wouldn't it affect their revenue? Or does people like Vinny Ligham overreact to the effects of an eventual HF?

tl;dr Power grab, and miners are hoping for short term losses over long term control.

People invested substantial amount of money in BTC, well, because it's a honey badger, and these people consider that centralization to be the Achilles heel of BTC. Right now the blocksize limit is governed by the hardlimit in the code. Now miners (where majority of them are in China) want to remove that hardcoded limit and instead saying that they should be the ones to set it as they please (and it so happens that miners profits are directly related to the block size as well as large mining farms also stand to get an advantage in mining, the bigger the blocks get. Where core gains no direct benefit from 1mb block). Now anyone with any basic coding experience can see that this would introduce a huge attach vector, but the miners are the ones that control the hashrate and are starting to get some traction. But what not many people are talking about, and admittedly is very hard to gauge (and what i believe miners are underestimating) is investors perception. Many people are willing to invest millions of $$ because of the code, but once the code is replaced with "you can trust us, because we wouldn't do anything bad" people are not so willing to invest in ChinaCoin.

[Ibian]

People are panicking that we are dropping down to $1000. I love it. This was a far off dream not that long ago.

[BrewMaster]

today was a good day
the price fall is always a good day. when i saw the drop i was anxious to buy and when i saw the ~750BTC buy walls being placed i knew where the bottom should be and started buying. haha

[MinermanNC]

LAUDA,

BU nodes are at ~8% at best (see here: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/), or more realistically at 2% (see here: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html).

whew ok, that's looks better 

Thx for the link and your input on this

[Ibian]

This question might sound stupid but I have been an investor never a miner .

If the fork would damage the price that much why would the miners go massively to it ? Wouldn't it affect their revenue? Or does people like Vinny Ligham overreact to the effects of an eventual HF?

Because humans are emotional creatures with agendas. What we call intelligence is for the most part just a mechanism for rationalizing our emotional choices to ourselves.

[Lauda]

LAUDA,

BU nodes are at ~8% at best (see here: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/), or more realistically at 2% (see here: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html).

whew ok, that's looks better  

Thx for the link and your input on this

What you were looking at is :

In the last 24 hours (144 blocks), Unlimited + Classic hashrate is ~1366 PH/s (37.5%) of the total Bitcoin network (3642 PH/s).

If you compare this to the nodes + the desires of the economic majority, you can see how something is obviously wrong. Miners should be working towards the interest of the users and the economy, but in this case they aren't. The reason for that is is because a *certain* mr. Jihan is controlling pretty much all of the BU hashrate (he just diversified it under other pools that suddenly popped up with hundreds of petahashes). This is a better and simpler way to view the current total (signalling): https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pools?resolution=24h and you can see individual pools signalling here (when they mine blocks): https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC

People are panicking that we are dropping down to $1000. I love it. This was a far off dream not that long ago.

Half a year ago, $1000 was a dream. Now, people are panicking because we are back to $1000? How times quickly change.

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

This gives a good overview of where all the nodes are at right now. Interesting, the way I am reading it is BU nodes at 33.1 %

http://xtnodes.com/

No. Why are you preaching something which you do not even understand? BU nodes are at ~8% at best (see here: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/), or more realistically at 2% (see here: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html).

So about this http://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-explainer-bitcoin-unlimited-debate/

https://www.bitcoinunlimited.info/ (again one of those stupid java only website, says enough)

the idea sound great BUT :

BU/BTU is a absurdly stupid idea that provides even more centralization incentives and power to the mining cartel. Is this what you mean by 'sounds great'?

But the big pools can fork it almost when ever they want, no?

They can fork into an altcoin whenever they want to.

How would it be possible to stop it to be the main chain?

Sound great was meant has a marketing concept. fundamentally or the blocksize never change and the fees align or the system move to what ever. I liked the idea of having modular blocksize, but dynamically would be better... and then why mine or pay fee at all? PoS.



Look :

I conducted a study of the % rate paid by the pools to the miners.

Look, the usual pool takes 0.3-1%. The amount is used as payments on server bills and profit to owners.

A pool like the Antpool pays the miners up to 20%. This means that they work at a loss!

From this we can assume the following:

- They work at a loss because they are subsidized by bankers - supporters of Bitcoin Unlimited and special services (as you know, BU will lead to centralization and make bitcoin controlled as paypal)
- Sooner or later, owners of pools of extra-paid miners may not pay a reward to the miners

Owners of large pools to spit on bitcoin. They will pursue their interests.

My conclusions:

Do not support large pools! It's a scum! Time bomb for bitcoin!
!

operating the pool at a loss, concentrating the maximum hashrate... who knows?!?

[slap]

imho btc is rising atm to be able to crash even further.
Call me a bear, fine, but this isn't how bottoms are formed.

gl everyone

[MinermanNC]

LAUDA,

BU nodes are at ~8% at best (see here: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/), or more realistically at 2% (see here: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html).

whew ok, that's looks better  

Thx for the link and your input on this

What you were looking at is :

In the last 24 hours (144 blocks), Unlimited + Classic hashrate is ~1366 PH/s (37.5%) of the total Bitcoin network (3642 PH/s).

If you compare this to the nodes + the desires of the economic majority, you can see how something is obviously wrong. Miners should be working towards the interest of the users and the economy, but in this case they aren't. The reason for that is is because a *certain* mr. Jihan is controlling pretty much all of the BU hashrate (he just diversified it under other pools that suddenly popped up with hundreds of petahashes). This is a better and simpler way to view the current total (signalling): https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pools?resolution=24h and you can see individual pools signalling here (when they mine blocks): https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC

People are panicking that we are dropping down to $1000. I love it. This was a far off dream not that long ago.

Half a year ago, $1000 was a dream. Now, people are panicking because we are back to $1000? How times quickly change.

Got it! it is a tad confusing though lol 

TY