Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Wexlike]

I have this crazy perspective about the Core vs. Unlimited BTC. The miners saying that their BTU will be the winner is a lot of wishfull thinking IMO. Just because they process the blocks they now somehow own the system??? They're hired help. That's why they get paid to do their job.

If we get the fork with two competing currencies, which one will be the winner? The market will decide, sure. Specifically the buyers. People giving their $$$ in exchange for BTC, not the miners. They really should take a step back and figure out they're not the bosses and they can get fired if they go too far...

By activating SegWit and allowing layer2 solutions to be deployed, Bitcoin would soar in price due to higher utility and higher transaction throughput causing a stronger network effect - therefore increasing the mining revenue.

I am curious if this drama is really financially profitable for this mining company.

[toknormal]

BU signalling is the equivalent of a false sellwall in markets.

Will get pulled once Bitmain Tech Limited are done with their buying.

[Searing]

I have this crazy perspective about the Core vs. Unlimited BTC. The miners saying that their BTU will be the winner is a lot of wishfull thinking IMO. Just because they process the blocks they now somehow own the system??? They're hired help. That's why they get paid to do their job.

If we get the fork with two competing currencies, which one will be the winner? The market will decide, sure. Specifically the buyers. People giving their $$$ in exchange for BTC, not the miners. They really should take a step back and figure out they're not the bosses and they can get fired if they go too far...

from what I understand..with 100 btc (say you own) you get BOTH..BTC and BTU of 100 coins....thus if you just hold and one becomes worth nothing..you still have the same $$$ vs BTC winner that you had before...the price may tank but the amount of BTC you have will be the same...this of course if you did nothing....

(or do I have this wrong?)

[savetherainforest]

I have this crazy perspective about the Core vs. Unlimited BTC. The miners saying that their BTU will be the winner is a lot of wishfull thinking IMO. Just because they process the blocks they now somehow own the system??? They're hired help. That's why they get paid to do their job.

If we get the fork with two competing currencies, which one will be the winner? The market will decide, sure. Specifically the buyers. People giving their $$$ in exchange for BTC, not the miners. They really should take a step back and figure out they're not the bosses and they can get fired if they go too far...

from what I understand..with 100 btc (say you own) you get BOTH..BTC and BTU of 100 coins....thus if you just hold and one becomes worth nothing..you still have the same $$$ vs BTC winner that you had before...the price may tank but the amount of BTC you have will be the same...this of course if you did nothing....

(or do I have this wrong?)

I just said something similar to this... when they will try to move money back from BTU back to BTC... and one will go up and the other down.

[Searing]

I have this crazy perspective about the Core vs. Unlimited BTC. The miners saying that their BTU will be the winner is a lot of wishfull thinking IMO. Just because they process the blocks they now somehow own the system??? They're hired help. That's why they get paid to do their job.

If we get the fork with two competing currencies, which one will be the winner? The market will decide, sure. Specifically the buyers. People giving their $$$ in exchange for BTC, not the miners. They really should take a step back and figure out they're not the bosses and they can get fired if they go too far...

from what I understand..with 100 btc (say you own) you get BOTH..BTC and BTU of 100 coins....thus if you just hold and one becomes worth nothing..you still have the same $$$ vs BTC winner that you had before...the price may tank but the amount of BTC you have will be the same...this of course if you did nothing....

(or do I have this wrong?)

I just said something similar to this... when they will try to move money back from BTU back to BTC... and one will go up and the other down.

exactly..but if you HOLD both ....one wins one loses...you will have NO less then 100 coins that you started with ....either BTC or BTU as a winner...then again....the coins after
all this FUD and drama will likely be 200 usd each...but hey.....CHEAP COINS/CHEAP COINS/CHEAP COINS...(then again coward that I am....I would have quite the 'fret fest' thru
the whole roller coster ride to determine the 'WINNER' ....assuming say BTU was to win and we have 200 buck BTC again..what do they call that a phyric victory...you burn the
house down ..rather then lose the house to the invaders.....but hey...its a win it is still your house!)

(silly frigging crypto hobby..I have to be out of my frigging mind.....)

[Totscha]

I have this crazy perspective about the Core vs. Unlimited BTC. The miners saying that their BTU will be the winner is a lot of wishfull thinking IMO. Just because they process the blocks they now somehow own the system??? They're hired help. That's why they get paid to do their job.

If we get the fork with two competing currencies, which one will be the winner? The market will decide, sure. Specifically the buyers. People giving their $$$ in exchange for BTC, not the miners. They really should take a step back and figure out they're not the bosses and they can get fired if they go too far...

from what I understand..with 100 btc (say you own) you get BOTH..BTC and BTU of 100 coins....thus if you just hold and one becomes worth nothing..you still have the same $$$ vs BTC winner that you had before...the price may tank but the amount of BTC you have will be the same...this of course if you did nothing....

(or do I have this wrong?)

Yeah, that's right. You own 100 BTC in both chains. So it doesn't matter to you which one is worth more $$$ or even if one of them dies. You just have to wait patiently until the smoke clears...

Miners however can only mine on one chain. So they have to choose the winning side.

[Searing]

I have this crazy perspective about the Core vs. Unlimited BTC. The miners saying that their BTU will be the winner is a lot of wishfull thinking IMO. Just because they process the blocks they now somehow own the system??? They're hired help. That's why they get paid to do their job.

If we get the fork with two competing currencies, which one will be the winner? The market will decide, sure. Specifically the buyers. People giving their $$$ in exchange for BTC, not the miners. They really should take a step back and figure out they're not the bosses and they can get fired if they go too far...

from what I understand..with 100 btc (say you own) you get BOTH..BTC and BTU of 100 coins....thus if you just hold and one becomes worth nothing..you still have the same $$$ vs BTC winner that you had before...the price may tank but the amount of BTC you have will be the same...this of course if you did nothing....

(or do I have this wrong?)

Yeah, that's right. You own 100 BTC in both chains. So it doesn't matter to you which one is worth more $$$ or even if one of them dies. You just have to wait patiently until the smoke clears...

Miners however can only mine on one chain. So they have to choose the winning side.

my choice of Evil KNC Titans mining LTC to BTC the last 2 years has paid off...evil they are ..you dare not make eye contact with them doing laundy (the ones I have in basement and not data hall) ....well if you piss them off they try to brick themselves....but hey evil pays....bruahahahaha (cough) got to work on the evil laugh however.....(whew..passed on the bitmain stuff for btc miner temptation)

Just to keep this on topic as a 'speculaton thread" a person needs to consider this HOW you are speculating to get BTC via method of mining and holding...my above method..or trading..or heck..whatever moves crypto of your flavor back to Bitcoin.....or so my theory goes

more then one way to 'speculate' on how to get a btc hoard!

[Cassius]

I have this crazy perspective about the Core vs. Unlimited BTC. The miners saying that their BTU will be the winner is a lot of wishfull thinking IMO. Just because they process the blocks they now somehow own the system??? They're hired help. That's why they get paid to do their job.

If we get the fork with two competing currencies, which one will be the winner? The market will decide, sure. Specifically the buyers. People giving their $$$ in exchange for BTC, not the miners. They really should take a step back and figure out they're not the bosses and they can get fired if they go too far...

from what I understand..with 100 btc (say you own) you get BOTH..BTC and BTU of 100 coins....thus if you just hold and one becomes worth nothing..you still have the same $$$ vs BTC winner that you had before...the price may tank but the amount of BTC you have will be the same...this of course if you did nothing....

(or do I have this wrong?)

Yeah, that's right. You own 100 BTC in both chains. So it doesn't matter to you which one is worth more $$$ or even if one of them dies. You just have to wait patiently until the smoke clears...

Miners however can only mine on one chain. So they have to choose the winning side.

Eh. In theory, I think. But the problem is that in theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not.
It makes sense that current value would be perfectly split between the two chains, but I doubt it will pan out exactly like that. One (I wouldn't dare to speculate which) might essentially be treated as an altcoin, with lower volumes and liquidity, which could be manipulated, pumped, whatever. Where there is money, hashrate will inevitably follow. Both chains will persist for a long time, even if one has 1% the market cap of the other. My guess is that total value with oscillate around pre-fork value, with some pretty wild swings.
The rational thing to do is ensure you have all your own keys, sit patiently and wait it all out until the winner becomes clear, then access the BTC on that chain as normal. Unfortunately, 'rational' is an adjective that applies to neither markets nor bitcoiners.

[elebit]

Maybe a large short position was taken out around $950 in anticipation of sales that then got unexpectedly bought up by a raging bull market? Now a very large Chinese miner and fabricator is actually under water to the extent that they are very desperate for a much lower price for its business survival? Such a desperate actor will do anything, including threatening to fork bitcoin or otherwise nuclear options, since it is going bankrupt anyway.

Mind blown. Do you think this theory holds water? What signs would point to miners taking out big shorts?

The Chinese exchanges always had an enormous amount of leveraged trades, which the miners potentially could have been a big part of. But wasn't leveraged trading stopped as part of PBoC sanctions? And it doesn't look like those trades moved to Finex, they mostly disappeared. Or do you think that they still do it, but under the table?

[promomei]

Hey guys 
Is it save now to keep BTC on blockchain info
and what happens with it after fork 

[Cassius]

Maybe a large short position was taken out around $950 in anticipation of sales that then got unexpectedly bought up by a raging bull market? Now a very large Chinese miner and fabricator is actually under water to the extent that they are very desperate for a much lower price for its business survival? Such a desperate actor will do anything, including threatening to fork bitcoin or otherwise nuclear options, since it is going bankrupt anyway.

Mind blown. Do you think this theory holds water? What signs would point to miners taking out big shorts?

The Chinese exchanges always had an enormous amount of leveraged trades, which the miners potentially could have been a big part of. But wasn't leveraged trading stopped as part of PBoC sanctions? And it doesn't look like those trades moved to Finex, they mostly disappeared. Or do you think that they still do it, but under the table?

It seems highly likely that one or more Chinese exchange is under water, for one reason or another, and has been running a fractional reserve for a while. What they do about it, who knows? I don't think the conspiracy theory stacks up and there is, of course, the chance of it going the wrong way on them again

[Cassius]

Hey guys 
Is it save now to keep BTC on blockchain info
and what happens with it after fork 

Just make sure you have your keys. Blockchain.info lets you access them. Do it and keep them somewhere safe

[promomei]

Hey guys  
Is it save now to keep BTC on blockchain info
and what happens with it after fork  

Just make sure you have your keys. Blockchain.info lets you access them. Do it and keep them somewhere safe

ok ty  
crazy stuff is going on with this unlimited  bitcoin

[elebit]

It seems highly likely that one or more Chinese exchange is under water, for one reason or another, and has been running a fractional reserve for a while.

Who knows, we might even thank PBoC one day for softening the blow? 

But if it's true that miners hold enormous shorts, I don't want to be a fiat-holder when they get closed ...

[bitserve]

Hey guys  
Is it save now to keep BTC on blockchain info
and what happens with it after fork  

Just make sure you have your keys. Blockchain.info lets you access them. Do it and keep them somewhere safe

ok ty  
crazy stuff is going on with this unlimited  bitcoin

Maybe I am very wrong, but I think that any minute ANTMINER could stop signaling for BU. Or maybe in some days. But I think it have to happen.

[Cassius]

Hey guys  
Is it save now to keep BTC on blockchain info
and what happens with it after fork  

Just make sure you have your keys. Blockchain.info lets you access them. Do it and keep them somewhere safe

ok ty  
crazy stuff is going on with this unlimited  bitcoin

I'm still very unclear of the odds of it actually happening. Vinny Lingham had some interesting insights earlier. https://vinnylingham.com/the-power-of-the-invisible-hand-56efaedfb544#.19bmedhhn
It seems it was pretty controversial, so I'm just reading his follow up.

[becoin]

Maybe a large short position was taken out around $950 in anticipation of sales that then got unexpectedly bought up by a raging bull market? Now a very large Chinese miner and fabricator is actually under water to the extent that they are very desperate for a much lower price for its business survival? Such a desperate actor will do anything, including threatening to fork bitcoin or otherwise nuclear options, since it is going bankrupt anyway.

Mind blown. Do you think this theory holds water? What signs would point to miners taking out big shorts?

Bitmain needed cash for their new data center they invested heavily last year. They sold customer bitcoins. Nothing unusual there. What is confusing is that PBoC came to rescue Chinese short sellers. If we break $1350 next stop will be >$10,000 bitcoin.

[Tzupy]

...
Bitmain needed cash for their new data center they invested heavily last year. They sold customer bitcoins. Nothing unusual there. What is confusing is that PBoC came to rescue Chinese short sellers. If we break $1350 next stop will be >$10,000 bitcoin.

Permabull dreams... First 935$ should hold when support will be tested again. And if it will hold, later we may break the ATH, and reach about 2200$ in 3 - 5 months, followed by a 40% correction.

Edit. 935$ not 985$, my bad.

[fichtn12345]

Maybe a large short position was taken out around $950 in anticipation of sales that then got unexpectedly bought up by a raging bull market? Now a very large Chinese miner and fabricator is actually under water to the extent that they are very desperate for a much lower price for its business survival? Such a desperate actor will do anything, including threatening to fork bitcoin or otherwise nuclear options, since it is going bankrupt anyway.

Mind blown. Do you think this theory holds water? What signs would point to miners taking out big shorts?

Bitmain needed cash for their new data center they invested heavily last year. They sold customer bitcoins. Nothing unusual there. What is confusing is that PBoC came to rescue Chinese short sellers. If we break $1350 next stop will be >$10,000 bitcoin.

Confirmed.

[elebit]

What is confusing is that PBoC came to rescue Chinese short sellers.

In what way were they "rescued"? I wouldn't want to have had any open shorts on the Chinese exchanges at the time of the last PBoC intervention.