Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ShroomsKit]

Still no volume. Perhaps the volume will come along if it keeps slowly grinding along towards 115 but I still don't trust this 'rally' and will keep watching from the sidelines.

I just hope there won't be another sunday dump which will make all this pointless.

[phoenix1]

Still no volume. Perhaps the volume will come along if it keeps slowly grinding along towards 115 but I still don't trust this 'rally' and will keep watching from the sidelines.

I just hope there won't be another sunday dump which will make all this pointless.

Not if you're the one pushing it up ready to dump it  
Actually TBH if I were Mr Sunday Dumper, I would be doing exactly this, and on top of that, I would probably do a 'head-fake' this Sunday and buy instead of sell to catch anyone out who was anticipating a repeat. That would probably move the market up quite a bit. That presumes of course, that I have the luxury of time.

[lucas.sev]

Still no volume. Perhaps the volume will come along if it keeps slowly grinding along towards 115 but I still don't trust this 'rally' and will keep watching from the sidelines.

I just hope there won't be another sunday dump which will make all this pointless.

You think there won't be any preemptive dumps?

[KS]

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

That's a pretty cool idea.  However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable.  With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin.  I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear.  Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.

They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly.  It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks".  All confidence would be would be lost.  Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments.  Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency.  It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.  

So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation.  The irony is quite amusing.

Worst. Attack. Idea. Ever.

The attacker would be dumping free money until he/she runs out and then the system would continue to run as usual.

Indeed they are free to donate their money to the market. Then again, it isn't really their money to begin with is it?

BTC is so tiny that the FED could just buy enough BTC to make it skyrocket in en epic pump, then crash it to single digits, creating a few notable fortunes and ruining millions of people on the way. Burning people with BTC seems indeed more effective than simply banning it.

Still, they would be burning piles of money, this is an expensive stunt to perform, "affordable" only by an economic super-power willing to virtually destroy money to try to get rid of Bitcoin. BTC is still too small to deserve such kind of attention, if they decide to play the pump&dump game they really need to go till the end, waking up the sleeping monster

In a few years, not even the FED may afford such kind of attack. And if they do, it will be a hell of a ride and nice fight. Keep'em coming.

The idea is to decentralize even more by making the technology easier to use by a wider audience. A BTC blackbox, a BTC credit card etc (or rpietila's paper BTC IOUs - hmmm like Ripple ) are what's needed.

We need to take the geek side out of the Bitcoin use. Make it easy to use so people can simply ignore the technology behind it and use it as they would any other currency (and each device should be a miner, to process transactions and secure the network). That's when mass adoption can really start.

OTOH, I also think that Bitcoin will be superseded, eventually, and possibly even by a GOV-launched coin (best way to beat BTC is to make it irrelevant), unless we reach critical mass within a short period of time (less than 10 years from introduction).

[lucas.sev]

Where is your panic buy, Adam? 

[TheKoziTwo]

$111 broken. Time to panic buy, for whoever is crazy enough to still hold fiat  

[lucas.sev]

$111 broken. Time to panic buy, for whoever is crazy enough to still hold fiat  

111 seems unnoticed by the reaction of the market

[phoenix1]

Where is your panic buy, Adam? 

To be fair he did say $111 ... here she blows ...

[Pzi4nk]

There is some small ideas and big ideas to enforce BTC, though. We already gave Bitcointip in Haikko, and I am likely extending it to Punavuori (an area in the center part of Helsinki where about 5000-10000 people live). We will dole out free millibitcoins as bills, and inform all the restaurants there that if they serve their clients well, they will receive tips (because tips are already there in the hands of their clientele - we have give them out for free to all the inhabitants )

Then the restaurants can cash them in for euros, or redeem them for actual bitcoins. Or keep them in circulation as bitcoin-denominated change.

My idea is to start with 5, 10, 20 so very small notes that we give out for free and prepare that many do not care. But some will, and that's going to be fun

You gave away notes worth 5-20 Euro to 5,000-10,000 people?

That's a 75,000 Euro giveaway, right?

I don't see this helping Bitcoin as the notes can be readily converted into fiat. Only people already interested in Bitcoin will see the notes as BTC.

[lucas.sev]

There is some small ideas and big ideas to enforce BTC, though. We already gave Bitcointip in Haikko, and I am likely extending it to Punavuori (an area in the center part of Helsinki where about 5000-10000 people live). We will dole out free millibitcoins as bills, and inform all the restaurants there that if they serve their clients well, they will receive tips (because tips are already there in the hands of their clientele - we have give them out for free to all the inhabitants )

Then the restaurants can cash them in for euros, or redeem them for actual bitcoins. Or keep them in circulation as bitcoin-denominated change.

My idea is to start with 5, 10, 20 so very small notes that we give out for free and prepare that many do not care. But some will, and that's going to be fun

You gave away notes worth 5-20 Euro to 5,000-10,000 people?

That's a 75,000 Euro giveaway, right?

I don't see this helping Bitcoin as the notes can be readily converted into fiat. Only people already interested in Bitcoin will see the notes as BTC.

I guess the idea is to get them interested?

[KS]

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

That's a pretty cool idea.  However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable.  With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin.  I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear.  Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.

They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly.  It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks".  All confidence would be would be lost.  Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments.  Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency.  It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.  

So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation.  The irony is quite amusing.

The BTC ecosystem is still nascent and, as such, still very fragile. The attack you describe would be a good, if expensive way to hurt it but the opportunity window for it is closing as adoption increases.

[billington.mark]

starting to get a little more exciting now

[hlynur]

The idea is to decentralize even more by making the technology easier to use by a wider audience. A BTC blackbox, a BTC credit card etc (or rpietila's paper BTC IOUs - hmmm like Ripple ) are what's needed.

We need to take the geek side out of the Bitcoin use. Make it easy to use so people can simply ignore the technology behind it and use it as they would any other currency (and each device should be a miner, to process transactions and secure the network). That's when mass adoption can really start.

OTOH, I also think that Bitcoin will be superseded, eventually, and possibly even by a GOV-launched coin (best way to beat BTC is to make it irrelevant), unless we reach critical mass within a short period of time (less than 10 years from introduction).

I can't imagine people would happily adapt some coin created by governments. Typical John Doe still has a slight doubt to everything that comes from authorities.
imo more possible way would be coins by different big companies restricted to buys for their products. (and the authorities watching the whole thing via Prism-like observation system).
looking at facebook we saw many many other social networks pop up and disappear on the web before it was hugely adapted around the globe. (and that took 7-8 years!)
i can't look in the future but also can't imagine some other cryptocurrency suddenly pop up and establish a market like btc has in last years.
but that's just me talking

[lucas.sev]

starting to get a little more exciting now

Rally is called off, everyone go home.

[KS]

I think the 2.5% is because they can't exchange the fiat directly and need to go through their bank (legally, not technically), so it's simply to discourage the practice (higher costs, more work for them) but it was argued they're just greedy.

I think it's probably a bit of both

If you think they don't get a significant cut of that 2.5%, then you're naive, and I'm sure they love you as a customer.

You'll note I mentioned the legal and technical aspects

[samson]

$111 broken. Time to panic buy, for whoever is crazy enough to still hold fiat  

lol 

[crumbs]

The idea is to decentralize even more by making the technology easier to use by a wider audience. A BTC blackbox, a BTC credit card etc (or rpietila's paper BTC IOUs - hmmm like Ripple ) are what's needed.

We need to take the geek side out of the Bitcoin use. Make it easy to use so people can simply ignore the technology behind it and use it as they would any other currency (and each device should be a miner, to process transactions and secure the network). That's when mass adoption can really start.

OTOH, I also think that Bitcoin will be superseded, eventually, and possibly even by a GOV-launched coin (best way to beat BTC is to make it irrelevant), unless we reach critical mass within a short period of time (less than 10 years from introduction).

I can't imagine people would happily adapt some coin created by governments. Typical John Doe still has a slight doubt to everything that comes from authorities.
[...]

Typical John Doe has much stronger doubts about anonymous entities named "Satoshi"

[Cablez]

OTOH, I also think that Bitcoin will be superseded, eventually, and possibly even by a GOV-launched coin (best way to beat BTC is to make it irrelevant), unless we reach critical mass within a short period of time (less than 10 years from introduction).

I see this Govt. backed coin oft repeated and I still have the same question.  Who is going to mine this govt. coin?  If they are going to be in control they would probably release it as they see fit anyway and based on that assumption why would they even need make a govt. coin when they already have USD which is basically already doing this?  I don't think you can beat Bitcoin with a new form of the same old system.

[billington.mark]

starting to get a little more exciting now

Rally is called off, everyone go home.

"A watched pot never boils"

Everyone close down clarkmoody\bitcoincharts\bitcoinity\mtgoxlive\etc so the price can jump up...

[ElectricMucus]

starting to get a little more exciting now

Rally is called off, everyone go home.

"A watched pot never boils"

Everyone close down clarkmoody\bitcoincharts\bitcoinity\mtgoxlive\etc so the price can jump up...

If you pour hot water out of the tap into a pot your attention span must be about the one of a ADD patient not to be able to watch it.