Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Gold isn't a very good monetary asset, since it's market is speculative and that makes it unstable. But bitcoin would be far worse, because unlike gold, it has virtually 0% intrinsic value. Stability is what the monetary system needs, because that is very important to develop the economy.

I think "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

I am very serious.  In fact, maybe "value" is even a flawed word.  Something has properties, which give it utility, which can be desirable for someone.
Value is always subjective. (see "a horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse").

So, you actually can't comprehend that gold has irreplaceable value in electronics?

Strawman much?
First off, I originally specifically said "Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable.", already taking into account that gold has other utility than just the monetary one.
Secondly, I was talking about the concept of intrinsic value in general.

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[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

you guys should edit the images with width=100 if you are going to quote each other back and forth

You are right, sorry. Fixed.

[Jacques_Bittard]

Strawman much?
First off, I originally specifically said "Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable.", already taking into account that gold has other utility than just the monetary one.
Secondly, I was talking about the concept of intrinsic value in general.

Firstly, I said that bitcoin would be far worse to use as gold as an monetary asset, because it has no intrinsic value, and that creates more instability. Now when you are telling that intrinsic value doesn't exist, then you are either trolling me or just confused Intrinsic value is based on the important needs of society. Electronics is a very important need in today's society. Telling that intrinsic value of gold is bullshit, is saying that we could very well live without electronics. Yeah you could. There are plenty of people living like that in PNG, go visit them and see how well their economy is doing

Please don't try to provoke needless arguments with me. While talking with markj113, I really felt good that I'm talking to someone who isn't a religious fiend. Please don't ruin this experience for me Bad intentions bring out the worse in me

[xhomerx10]

We don't need to read the charts to know when to buy the dip because Bittard shows up with diarrhea of the fingers every time!

[Jacques_Bittard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALKAh_bL5g
I hope that this lightens the mood I for instance am currently quite drunk

[markj113]

Strawman much?
First off, I originally specifically said "Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable.", already taking into account that gold has other utility than just the monetary one.
Secondly, I was talking about the concept of intrinsic value in general.

Firstly, I said that bitcoin would be far worse to use as gold as an monetary asset, because it has no intrinsic value, and that creates more instability. Now when you are telling that intrinsic value doesn't exist, then you are either trolling me or just confused Intrinsic value is based on the important needs of society. Electronics is a very important need in today's society. Telling that intrinsic value of gold is bullshit, is saying that we could very well live without electronics. Yeah you could. There are plenty of people living like that in PNG, go visit them and see how well their economy is doing

Please don't try to provoke needless arguments with me. While talking with markj113, I really felt good that I'm talking to someone who isn't a religious fiend. Please don't ruin this experience for me Bad intentions bring out the worse in me

This shows the power of gold as a monetary asset.

This is my Double gold Doubloon from Spain's King Phillip II's rein in the 1500's.

It still has purchase power 500 years later due the gold content.

[greensheep]

May the new gold be as successful as the old one!

[Jacques_Bittard]

Strawman much?
First off, I originally specifically said "Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable.", already taking into account that gold has other utility than just the monetary one.
Secondly, I was talking about the concept of intrinsic value in general.

Firstly, I said that bitcoin would be far worse to use as gold as an monetary asset, because it has no intrinsic value, and that creates more instability. Now when you are telling that intrinsic value doesn't exist, then you are either trolling me or just confused Intrinsic value is based on the important needs of society. Electronics is a very important need in today's society. Telling that intrinsic value of gold is bullshit, is saying that we could very well live without electronics. Yeah you could. There are plenty of people living like that in PNG, go visit them and see how well their economy is doing

Please don't try to provoke needless arguments with me. While talking with markj113, I really felt good that I'm talking to someone who isn't a religious fiend. Please don't ruin this experience for me Bad intentions bring out the worse in me

This shows the power of gold as a monetary asset.

This is my Double gold Doubloon from Spain's King Phillip II's rein in the 1500's.

It still has purchase power 500 years later due the gold content.

Nice pieces, but aren't their historical value higher then the value of their gold content?

[markj113]

May the new gold be as successful as the old one!

Indian Jones -Raiders of the lost ark II just wouldn't be the same with a paper wallet instead of a gold idol now would it

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Intrinsic value is based on the important needs of society.

Do you even listen to yourself?  Intrinsic value is based on the needs of society....  
How do you call the needs of a society "intrinsic" to a piece of gold?  
And then you call me confused...

[markj113]

Nice pieces, but aren't their historical value higher then the value of their gold content?

Yes but same principle applies to old gold sovereigns for example that are over a hundred years old but only worth bullion values.

Do you even listen to yourself?  Intrinsic value is based on the needs of society....  
How do you call the needs of a society "intrinsic" to a piece of gold?  
And then you call me confused...

I thought he made that clear - industrial uses.  There are also cultural uses such as wedding rings and other jewellery, dentistry etc.

[bitcoinPsycho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALKAh_bL5g
I hope that this lightens the mood I for instance am currently quite drunk

for you retard:



dont get any ideas bob

[greensheep]

May the new gold be as successful as the old one!

Indian Jones -Raiders of the lost ark II just wouldn't be the same with a paper wallet instead of a gold idol now would it

Or a ledger in his pocket :p

Just googled the price of those babies, I was referring to the 'having value within 500 years'.
But I could settle with 1BTC equals 1 of those coins too you know https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPAIN-1718-ONLY-1-KNOWN-8-ESCUDOS-NGC-61-MINT-STATE-GOLD-DOUBLOON-COIN-COB-/302318932336

[markj113]

for you retard:



dont get any ideas bob

$425, cheaper and more fun to get a few bottles of this to achieve the same result

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Nice pieces, but aren't their historical value higher then the value of their gold content?

Yes but same principle applies to old gold sovereigns for example that are over a hundred years old but only worth bullion values.

Do you even listen to yourself?  Intrinsic value is based on the needs of society....  
How do you call the needs of a society "intrinsic" to a piece of gold?  
And then you call me confused...

I thought he made that clear - industrial uses.  There are also cultural uses such as wedding rings and other jewellery, dentistry etc.

Jezus people.  I realize that gold has utility.  I know that you can use it for jewellery, electronics etc. .
I was talking talking about the bullshit concept of "intrinsic value", which is right out there with phlogiston.
At this point I feel like I am highjacking the thread though, so I'll quit talking about it (for now ).

[Anon136]

Strawman much?
First off, I originally specifically said "Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable.", already taking into account that gold has other utility than just the monetary one.
Secondly, I was talking about the concept of intrinsic value in general.

Intrinsic value is based on the important needs of society.

Says who? Intrinsic means an inherent property of the object it's self. So for example a gold bars refraction index is an intrinsic property, it's elemental makeup is an intrinsic property. The atomic weight of it's atoms would remain the same even if there were no one around to observe it because that is an intrinsic property. But value? In order for it's value to be an intrinsic property it would need to have a consistent value even in the absence of people around to place a value upon it.

You say it's important for making electronics. You know there are people out there who do not value electronics right?

I get that you are trying to point out a distinction between more abstract reasons for valuing things vs more concrete lower order production type reasons for valuing things, but intrinsic is just not the right word for that. It just confuses people and everyone starts talking past each other.

[Jacques_Bittard]

Nice pieces, but aren't their historical value higher then the value of their gold content?

Yes but same principle applies to old gold sovereigns for example that are over a hundred years old but only worth bullion values.

Do you even listen to yourself?  Intrinsic value is based on the needs of society....  
How do you call the needs of a society "intrinsic" to a piece of gold?  
And then you call me confused...

I thought he made that clear - industrial uses.  There are also cultural uses such as wedding rings and other jewellery, dentistry etc.

I'm mostly a fan of simpler metals, like aluminum, steel and titanium. I need to see it formed into something, this calms my mind
It's a pleasure to talk to you, because you seem to understand the game. Even if our views on some things are different, it doesn't matter, because we are able to express ourselves in a respectful and constructive form.
I'm not proud of it, but I mostly come here to troll. Religious people have always brought out the troll in me, and I haven't found a better way to converse with them yet. From time to time, it's a pleasant surprise to see that you can actually express yourself as an human being and it will be understood.

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Strawman much?
First off, I originally specifically said "Gold's monetary utility is also easily replaceable.", already taking into account that gold has other utility than just the monetary one.
Secondly, I was talking about the concept of intrinsic value in general.

Intrinsic value is based on the important needs of society.

Says who? Intrinsic means an inherent property of the object it's self. So for example a gold bars refraction index is an intrinsic property, it's elemental makeup is an intrinsic property. The atomic weight of it's atoms would remain the same even if there were no one around to observe it because that is an intrinsic property. But value? In order for it's value to be an intrinsic property it would need to have a consistent value even in the absence of people around to place a value upon it.

100% this.

[markj113]

I'm mostly a fan of simpler metals, like aluminum, steel and titanium. I need to see it formed into something, this calms my mind
It's a pleasure to talk to you, because you seem to understand the game. Even if our views on some things are different, it doesn't matter, because we are able to express ourselves in a respectful and constructive form.
I'm not proud of it, but I mostly come here to troll. Religious people have always brought out the troll in me, and I haven't found a better way to converse with them yet. From time to time, it's a pleasant surprise to see that you can actually express yourself as an human being and it will be understood.

Those metals are not great for stacking though as they are not value dense if you hold the physical metal.

Silver is bad enough but you can cram a lot of money in gold form into peli case

[Anon136]

I'm mostly a fan of simpler metals, like aluminum, steel and titanium. I need to see it formed into something, this calms my mind
It's a pleasure to talk to you, because you seem to understand the game. Even if our views on some things are different, it doesn't matter, because we are able to express ourselves in a respectful and constructive form.
I'm not proud of it, but I mostly come here to troll. Religious people have always brought out the troll in me, and I haven't found a better way to converse with them yet. From time to time, it's a pleasant surprise to see that you can actually express yourself as an human being and it will be understood.

Those metals are not great for stacking though as they are not value dense if you hold the physical metal.

Silver is bad enough, you can cram a lot of money in gold into peli case

You know it's a bad day for bitcoin when everyone is like "hey lets talk about precious metals instead".