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Question: Next Bubble Top (resulting in a new ATH):
Will never reach a new ATH - 10 (8.1%)
$20,000-$49,999 - 26 (21%)
$50,000-$99,999 - 30 (24.2%)
$100,000-$149,999 - 23 (18.5%)
$150,000-$199,999 - 9 (7.3%)
$200,000-$249,999 - 7 (5.6%)
$250,000-$299,999 - 3 (2.4%)
$300,000-$350,000 - 1 (0.8%)
>$350,000 - 15 (12.1%)
Total Voters: 124

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21506663 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (142 posts by 32 users deleted.)
HairyMaclairy
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January 23, 2019, 07:51:17 AM
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Name me one example in which you will see strictly better results by complaining than by thinking up different potential solutions. You can't. Because complaining is a destructive force with a net effect that is either zero or negative.

What you call "complaining" I call advocacy.  And advocacy works.  We wouldn't have the UK modern slavery laws without advocacy.  

Making it illegal for Western companies to profit from slavery is highly effective, because the directors go directly to jail.  And guess what, company directors sit up in their chairs and pay attention when you say "if you don't do X, you will go to jail".   Then the directors tell their C-suite, "don't fuck up on X, or I will fire you without hesitation".  Those are real results, in real time.  

That is one you will see strictly better results by "complaining" rather than blaming the victim.  

Because what you are doing is blaming the slave for being a slave.  And that achieves nothing.  People like you avoid having to take responsibility for anything by always blaming the victim.  "If he wasn't such a dissident, he wouldn't have gone to Chinese prison camp". 
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January 23, 2019, 07:59:01 AM

Name me one example in which you will see strictly better results by complaining than by thinking up different potential solutions. You can't. Because complaining is a destructive force with a net effect that is either zero or negative.

What you call "complaining" I call advocacy.  And advocacy works.  We wouldn't have the UK modern slavery laws without advocacy.  

Making it illegal for Western companies to profit from slavery is highly effective, because the directors go directly to jail.  And guess what, company directors sit up in their chairs and pay attention when you say "if you don't do X, you will go to jail".   Then the directors tell their C-suite, "don't fuck up on X, or I will fire you without hesitation".  Those are real results, in real time.  

That is one you will see strictly better results by "complaining" rather than blaming the victim.  

Because what you are doing is blaming the slave for being a slave.  And that achieves nothing.  People like you avoid having to take responsibility for anything by always blaming the victim.  "If he wasn't such a dissident, he wouldn't have gone to Chinese prison camp". 
You keep ignoring one crucial thing. How does trying to get rid of slavery in shithole countries benefit us?
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January 23, 2019, 08:02:55 AM

Name me one example in which you will see strictly better results by complaining than by thinking up different potential solutions. You can't. Because complaining is a destructive force with a net effect that is either zero or negative.

What you call "complaining" I call advocacy.  And advocacy works.  We wouldn't have the UK modern slavery laws without advocacy.  

Making it illegal for Western companies to profit from slavery is highly effective, because the directors go directly to jail.  And guess what, company directors sit up in their chairs and pay attention when you say "if you don't do X, you will go to jail".   Then the directors tell their C-suite, "don't fuck up on X, or I will fire you without hesitation".  Those are real results, in real time.  

That is one you will see strictly better results by "complaining" rather than blaming the victim.  

Because what you are doing is blaming the slave for being a slave.  And that achieves nothing.  
This just shows that your reading comprehension skills are non-existent. You're filling gaps that never even existed.

The quote of mine stated that:

An individual which chooses to invest their individual time into complaining about their individual situation instead of trying to improve their own individual situation doesn't deserve an improved situation. (Spoilers: Always the same individual.)


You now take an outsider, e.g. yourself, complaining on behalf of a victim (which you made up) to disprove my assertion.

None of what you've tried to state here has anything to do with what I've stated.

In my statement, the slave girl or child soldier or whatever the fuck you want to use as an appeal-to-emotion example (any individual can be used here, really) is better off investing their time into figuring out any way to improve their situation over complaining over their situation.
Complaining will do nothing to improve their situation, especially in the outlandish situations you've named here.

Yet you try to use those to disprove a completely different claim that you have made up (and constantly keep changing with new examples). All while trying to portray me as some kind of inhumane devil. That's some serious mental acrobatics that I would only expect out of a lawyer.
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January 23, 2019, 08:04:22 AM

You keep ignoring one crucial thing. How does trying to get rid of slavery in shithole countries benefit us?

In broad terms, everyone in the world benefits when living conditions are raised for the world's poorest.

Henry Ford had the right idea:

Quote
In January 1914, Henry Ford started paying his auto workers a remarkable $5 a day. Doubling the average wage helped ensure a stable workforce and likely boosted sales since the workers could now afford to buy the cars they were making. It laid the foundation for an economy driven by consumer demand.
 https://www.npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552/the-middle-class-took-off-100-years-ago-thanks-to-henry-ford

If you are poor, when you are given money you will immediately spend it.  That is consumer demand.  Giving money to the very poorest, increases consumer demand which feeds the economy as a whole.  If we enable the poorest 50% of the world to buy basic necessities of life, you would see the biggest bull market the world has ever seen.  Lifting the living standards of the very poorest, even slightly, makes us all richer. 
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January 23, 2019, 08:07:03 AM

Name me one example in which you will see strictly better results by complaining than by thinking up different potential solutions. You can't. Because complaining is a destructive force with a net effect that is either zero or negative.

What you call "complaining" I call advocacy.  And advocacy works.  We wouldn't have the UK modern slavery laws without advocacy.  

Making it illegal for Western companies to profit from slavery is highly effective, because the directors go directly to jail.  And guess what, company directors sit up in their chairs and pay attention when you say "if you don't do X, you will go to jail".   Then the directors tell their C-suite, "don't fuck up on X, or I will fire you without hesitation".  Those are real results, in real time.  

That is one you will see strictly better results by "complaining" rather than blaming the victim.  

Because what you are doing is blaming the slave for being a slave.  And that achieves nothing.  People like you avoid having to take responsibility for anything by always blaming the victim.  "If he wasn't such a dissident, he wouldn't have gone to Chinese prison camp".  

If the only advocacy you are doing is typing on a bitcoin speculation thread, then its probably about as an inefficient of an advocacy campaign as you could possible choose to do with your time. Thats why it comes across (and seems more likely to be) much more of depression-like complaining, pontificating and lamenting.

We can't have too much compassion and empathy for others in this world. But why seek it out here of all places? Doesn't make much sense, does it?

That's is why I met your "Advocacy" with a call out for self accountability. Let's cut through the noise and BS. If you really want to make a difference, get out of here and go make one!

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January 23, 2019, 08:07:39 AM

You keep ignoring one crucial thing. How does trying to get rid of slavery in shithole countries benefit us?

In broad terms, everyone in the world benefits when living conditions are raised for the world's poorest.

Henry Ford had the right idea:

Quote
In January 1914, Henry Ford started paying his auto workers a remarkable $5 a day. Doubling the average wage helped ensure a stable workforce and likely boosted sales since the workers could now afford to buy the cars they were making. It laid the foundation for an economy driven by consumer demand.
 https://www.npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552/the-middle-class-took-off-100-years-ago-thanks-to-henry-ford

If you are poor, when you are given money you will immediately spend it.  That is consumer demand.  Giving money to the very poorest, increases consumer demand which feeds the economy as a whole.  If we enable the poorest 50% of the world to buy basic necessities of life, you would see the biggest bull market the world has ever seen.  Lifting the living standards of the very poorest, even slightly, makes us all richer. 
Quantify it in numbers and actions. What's your plan? What will it cost? What will the tangible benefits to us, not them, be?
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January 23, 2019, 08:08:13 AM
Merited by kurious (1)

Yet you try to use those to disprove a completely different claim that you have made up (and constantly keep changing with new examples). All while trying to portray me as some kind of inhumane devil.

The point I am making, which you seem to be incapable of understanding, is that it is often outside of the power of the victim to change their circumstances.  Because they are a fucking slave.  

And there are relatively easy ways for us as Westerners to improve their situation.  But the ethos I see constantly repeated on this board (Ibian being a classic example) is that we shouldn't try, even if it is in our own interest to do so.  And I find that disgusting.  
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January 23, 2019, 08:16:40 AM

Yet you try to use those to disprove a completely different claim that you have made up (and constantly keep changing with new examples). All while trying to portray me as some kind of inhumane devil.

The point I am making, which you seem to be incapable of understanding, is that it is often outside of the power of the victim to change their circumstances.  Because they are a fucking slave.  

And there are relatively easy ways for us as Westerners to improve their situation.  But the ethos I see constantly repeated on this board (Ibian being a classic example) is that we shouldn't try, even if it is in our own interest to do so.  And I find that disgusting.  
I'm neither Ibian nor have I ever stated that people shouldn't be helped.

And you haven't made any fucking point.

You're deliberately missing a point that should be so obvious that it's incomprehensible that you try to argue against it, when it would do much more to help society than your whining. You're telling people to whine, I'm telling them to shut the fuck up and seek out incremental improvements in their own life-style.
You then keep coming up with slaves and child soldiers, which can neither be easily saved by Westeners nor are they in any way relevant to the point that I've made (nor do they disprove it, quite on the contrary everything you've said was evidence for my point).


P.S. I find your attitude disgusting, and expected more out of you than to assume that a call for self-improvement over self-pitying could in any way be constructed as "the most unfortunate people should be left to rot". Get your head out of your fucking ass.
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January 23, 2019, 08:19:35 AM

Yet you try to use those to disprove a completely different claim that you have made up (and constantly keep changing with new examples). All while trying to portray me as some kind of inhumane devil.

The point I am making, which you seem to be incapable of understanding, is that it is often outside of the power of the victim to change their circumstances.  Because they are a fucking slave.  

And there are relatively easy ways for us as Westerners to improve their situation.  But the ethos I see constantly repeated on this board (Ibian being a classic example) is that we shouldn't try, even if it is in our own interest to do so.  And I find that disgusting.  
You have not even managed to identify the biggest western problems. Slavery in shithole countries is not among them.
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January 23, 2019, 08:21:46 AM

Quantify it in numbers and actions. What's your plan? What will it cost? What will the tangible benefits to us, not them, be?

Ok 50 people on chairs to properly enforce modern slavery act in the UK, including legals and enforcement.  Call it a budget of £25 million.

Start with basic shit like making sure British Airways isn't using Chinese prison labour to clean their airline headphones (happens alot).

Cost to BA:  exactly the same, because the profits were just going into the prison's superintendent's pocket.  BA wasn't getting the work any cheaper, if anything quality was probably down.  

Benefits:  some poor schmo in China is now getting paid properly to clean those airline headphones, and immediately spends that money on rice.  China is a big importer of rice from shitholes like Pakistan and Vietnam.  Those countries then get richer.  Some guy in Pakistan that was going to be a suicide bomber now has a job as a rice farmer, so he doesn't blow up the Danish embassy.  

Of course I made all that shit up but the basic principles are there.  We all benefit from tiny efforts to help those in need, even if it isn't immediately obvious.  

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January 23, 2019, 08:24:38 AM

Quantify it in numbers and actions. What's your plan? What will it cost? What will the tangible benefits to us, not them, be?

Ok 50 people on chairs to properly enforce modern slavery act in the UK, including legals and enforcement.  Call it a budget of £25 million.

Start with basic shit like making sure British Airways isn't using Chinese prison labour to clean their airline headphones (happens alot).

Cost to BA:  exactly the same, because the profits were just going into the prison's superintendent's pocket.  BA wasn't getting the work any cheaper, if anything quality was probably down.  

Benefits:  some poor schmo in China is now getting paid properly to clean those airline headphones, and immediately spends that money on rice.  China is a big importer of rice from shitholes like Pakistan and Vietnam.  Those countries then get richer.  Some guy in Pakistan that was going to be a suicide bomber now has a job as a rice farmer, so he doesn't blow up the Danish embassy.  

Of course I made all that shit up but the basic principles are there.  We all benefit from tiny efforts to help those in need, even if it isn't immediately obvious.  


And this is where you need to prove that actual slavery happens in the UK, if you have decided that shithole countries are no longer your focus. Assertions with no evidence can be discarded with no evidence.
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January 23, 2019, 08:25:13 AM

Yet you try to use those to disprove a completely different claim that you have made up (and constantly keep changing with new examples). All while trying to portray me as some kind of inhumane devil.

The point I am making, which you seem to be incapable of understanding, is that it is often outside of the power of the victim to change their circumstances.  Because they are a fucking slave.  

And there are relatively easy ways for us as Westerners to improve their situation.  But the ethos I see constantly repeated on this board (Ibian being a classic example) is that we shouldn't try, even if it is in our own interest to do so.  And I find that disgusting.  
You have not even managed to identify the biggest western problems. Slavery in shithole countries is not among them.

USA has 400,000 slaves, shit country.  9,000 people in Denmark in slavery - shitty place.  Canada, 17,000 slaves.  Cold and shit.  Australia, 15,000 slaves.  Warm and shit.  Switzerland, 14,000 slaves.  Chocolate and shit.  Etc.  

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January 23, 2019, 08:26:10 AM

And this is where you need to prove that actual slavery happens in the UK, if you have decided that shithole countries are no longer your focus. Assertions with no evidence can be discarded with no evidence.

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/methodology/overview/

Includes:

Quote
all forms of slavery or practices similar to slavery, such as the sale and trafficking of children, debt bondage and serfdom and forced or compulsory labour, including forced or compulsory recruitment of children for use in armed conflict;
the use, procuring or offering of a child for prostitution, for the production of pornography, or for pornographic performances;
the use, procuring or offering of a child for illicit activities, in particular for the production and trafficking of drugs as defined in the relevant international treaties;
work which, by its nature or the circumstances in which it is carried out, is likely to harm the health, safety or morals of children.

Jayme Closs in the USA would be the quintessential example.  https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/19/us/jayme-closs-case-moment-by-moment/index.html
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January 23, 2019, 08:31:26 AM

Yet you try to use those to disprove a completely different claim that you have made up (and constantly keep changing with new examples). All while trying to portray me as some kind of inhumane devil.

The point I am making, which you seem to be incapable of understanding, is that it is often outside of the power of the victim to change their circumstances.  Because they are a fucking slave.  

And there are relatively easy ways for us as Westerners to improve their situation.  But the ethos I see constantly repeated on this board (Ibian being a classic example) is that we shouldn't try, even if it is in our own interest to do so.  And I find that disgusting.  
You have not even managed to identify the biggest western problems. Slavery in shithole countries is not among them.

USA has 400,000 slaves, shit country.  9,000 people in Denmark in slavery - shitty place.  Canada, 17,000 slaves.  Cold and shit.  Australia, 15,000 slaves.  Warm and shit.  Switzerland, 14,000 slaves.  Chocolate and shit.  Etc.  
Okay you are just making shit up now. We are done here.
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January 23, 2019, 08:34:35 AM

Okay you are just making shit up now. We are done here.

Read the website yourself



https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/
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January 23, 2019, 08:36:51 AM

Okay you are just making shit up now. We are done here.

Read the website yourself



https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/

If debt bondage is slavery then a bank loan is slavery. You are being deliberately absurd. Your entire argument is based on false premises. And as usual, you know it.
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January 23, 2019, 08:37:15 AM

If the only advocacy you are doing is typing on a bitcoin speculation thread, then its probably about as an inefficient of an advocacy campaign as you could possible choose to do with your time. Thats why it comes across (and seems more likely to be) much more of depression-like complaining, pontificating and lamenting.

Yeah my local politician is sick of my phone calls.  He is also sick of my fund raising for the other side because he isnt doing shit.  With any luck he will be out of a job next election.  
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January 23, 2019, 08:40:49 AM

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January 23, 2019, 08:41:58 AM

If debt bondage is slavery then a bank loan is slavery. You are being deliberately absurd. Your entire argument is based on false premises. And as usual, you know it.

One random quote from the US State Department:

Quote
Thai victims are recruited for employment opportunities abroad and deceived into incurring large debts on broker and recruitment fees, sometimes using family-owned land as collateral, making them vulnerable to exploitation at their destination. Thai nationals are known to be subjected to forced labor or sex trafficking in Australia, Bahrain, Brunei, Canada, China, Germany, India, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, Libya, Malaysia, the Maldives, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Timor-Leste, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, the United States, Vietnam, and Yemen.

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/210742.pdf
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January 23, 2019, 08:43:28 AM

If debt bondage is slavery then a bank loan is slavery. You are being deliberately absurd. Your entire argument is based on false premises. And as usual, you know it.

One random quote from the US State Department:

Quote
Thai victims are recruited for employment opportunities abroad and deceived into incurring large debts on broker and recruitment fees, sometimes using family-owned land as collateral, making them vulnerable to exploitation at their destination. Thai nationals are known to be subjected to forced labor or sex trafficking in Australia, Bahrain, Brunei, Canada, China, Germany, India, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, Libya, Malaysia, the Maldives, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Timor-Leste, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, the United States, Vietnam, and Yemen.

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/210742.pdf
Finish the current argument before moving on. Does a bank loan make you a slave, yes or no?
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